Honda Accord Quality Control Issues

mikegold_1966

That's a relief, I was worried that you needed a trip to the optometrist pal.

venanzik

I have a 92 accord which developed rust about 5 yrs ago, i thougth it was just my car but as i look around about 75% of the accords (90-93) i see have this problem. i live in the northeast, PA. As for getting it fixed, i did. It cost me $609 for both sides. this was the more expensive fix. the body shop cut out the rusted metal, welded in a new piece and primed and painted, a cheaper fix (roughly half) would have been to grind out the rust and fill (with a plastic bondo substance). the later was suggested to me only if i was planning on selling the car within the year because the "cheaper fix" would probably rust in a year or so. thats my experience with the topic.

maxhonda99

I would suggest people try keeping their cars properly maintained. That means waxing & washing.
I'm 100% sure my car won't have a bit of rust on it, even after 15 years of use.

tntitan

I certainly wouldn't count on the more expensive fix eliminating your rust problem. It may take longer to come back than the cheapo fix but it will probably come back. Rust is a real sumamabitch to get rid of entirely. Most reputable body shop won't ever guarantee rust to be gone once it gets in the metal.

mikegold_1966

If you live in the northeast Max, all the waxing and washing on the outside of your Accord won't prevent the rust we are talking about. There is a sill and a lip on the inside above the rear wheel wells. Salt, ice and water collect in that area. You would have to put your car up on a lift each time you drive it and spray and air dry the area in question. Partner, you can't wax the inside sill of a 5th Generation Accord.

ed_swansfeger

To stay competitive with Toyota and Nissan, Honda will definitely have to make some changes. I agree, the air conditioning is one of Honda's weak points.

The insulation issue saw a remarkable improvement in the 2001 Accords. The new 2003 Accords will probably be even better. Let's hope that Honda doesn't scrap the wishbone suspension for McPhearson struts as a cost cutting measure like they did with the Civic.

venanzik

yeah, i know ...unfortunatly you are right....im just hoping the rust will stay away long enought so i can sell in a few years. if it wasnt for the rust issues, the car has been cost free. ive had 1.5 exhausts replaced and the brake calipers just recently, but other than routine stuff it has been great (knock on wood) 135K. im not sure if other people feel this way, but i think the seats in my 92 are more comfortable then my friends 2001 and my transmission shifts better (no delay feeling when not coming to a complete stop and then going again)

lugwrench

I have read various posts here and was wondering if anyone knows if Honda galvanizes its steel prior to production? What steps are taken before the new Accords are painted. Anyone have first hand knowledge what Honda does to protect the car from rusting?

paulo3

The rust is from the inside out. The inside lip above the wheel well is well documented as being prone to rust. Honda-Acura.net has all kinds of documentation regarding this problem.

Yes, washing the outside of your auto and waxing it will prevent surface rust. The under carriage is where the problems arise. Some people even have that area rustproofed with oil base or tar based products.

fish8

If this has been addressed in this thread before I apologize.

Has anyone experienced problems with automatic transmissions in their Accords? My Honda(85K miles) has been flawless until last week when I notice AT fluid on the garage floor. I took my car to the dealer on Fri and they stated I need a new transmission. The differential is going bad they said. I ended up calling Corp. Honda and they will have a regional rep take a look at the car to possibly help in the cost of a new Trans.

mikegold_1966

This topic has been mentioned numerous times here but isellhondas doesn't want anyone to think it exists. I agree, it is a problem fish8 that needs to be addressed by Honda. Poster rbruehl had his transmission replaced twice! His posts are here in this forum.

My only question to you is what type of engine does your Accord have? If it is a V-6, that transmission seems to be more problematic than the I-4.

Feel free to post your Honda quality concerns here in this forum.

fish8

I have the 4cyl 150 HP engine. This is really the only problem I have experienced with this Honda. But, if Honda does not put a new transmission in at no charge I will be upset. No car, especially a Honda should need to have the Trans replaced at 85K.

rbruehl

I had my V-6 tranny replaced twice by Honda. Make them pay all of it. Go to the NHSTA and research all the transmission problems with your vehicle. Print them out and be ready to use them when you meet with Honda. Honda will try to get you to pay a portion for the new transmission but stick to your guns. It was their manufacturing and engineering defect that caused this problem with so many of their 6th generation Accords. They will pay 100% as a "goodwill gesture"!

bodydouble

Other than the tranny fluid on your garage floor, were there not other telltale signs about the tranny failure?

black_tulip

This may be a stupid question, but isn't Honda within their rights to refuse to pay for any repairs when the car is so far(85K) out of warranty? Or do they have some sort of special policy like Toyota does about the sludge issue?

fish8

Black tulip: You correct....Honda is under no obligation to pay for any part of a new tranny. BUT, NO transmission should need to be replaced at 85K. Also, if they ever want me to buy another Honda, they should assist put a new transmission in my car.

rbuehl: Do you think they should pay for labor as well? I was thinking I would most likely have to cover the cost of the labor portion.

bodydouble: The fluid on the floor was the major symptom. Occasionally I will experience some hesitation when driving at a steady speed. Other than that it is normal most of the time. I just hope the tranny does not give out all of a sudden.

isellhondas

Sorry to disappoint you but I have NEVER said anywhere that Honda's never have problems. These problems, especially transmission problems are minimal compared to some other makes.

If this were the case, we wouldn't need warranties or a service department.

What I have said and will continue to say, is that these problems are isolated and not as widespread as a couple of folks here would like the world to think.

fish8 thinks that no car should need to have the transmission replaced at 85,000 miles.

Well...85,000 miles is a lot of miles and things *can* happen...life isn't always fair and things don't always last forever.

Still, it is unusual. It does sound like Honda is willing to possible assist with the cost of repairs even though they aren't obligated to do so.

Maybe they can reseal it instead of replacing it? I don't know.

fish8

You are correct....Honda is under no obligation to assist with a new transmission. But, it only makes good CUSTOMER SERVICE sense to assist.

How can you say 85K on a car is a lot of miles for the transmission to go out. I think I am 100% in saying that Honda designs and engineers their transmissions to last way beyond 85K miles. Honda is not required to pay for any part of a new trans, but if they do not it will be obvious that they do not stand behind their products.

I should be getting a call from Corp. Honda within the next 3 days so I will keep everyone updated.

paulo3

Honda has assisted numerous customers since 1998 with transmission replacements. You are right, it makes good sense to replace a defective product to keep a customer happy. Most likely, Honda is worried about a national recall which would cost them millions.

Since it is on ongoing problem, I would surmise that Honda or its supplier does not know how to correct the problem. It wouldn't surprise me if Honda develops a new transmission for its 2003 Accord to solve its own problem.

Just hope they correct it for you at no charge.

fish8

Thanks paulo.....me too

isellhondas

A few 99-2000 V-6 transmissions had some problems that Honda recognized and fixed. A supplier changed the specs on a part as I understand things without telling Honda.

I've heard of no troubles at all with 4 cyl units.

Of course, like anything mechanical, things can and will happen. Nothing is perfect. Hopefully you will be satisfied in the end.

I do have a question...the warranty is 3/36 on your car. Assuming your transmission is, in fact, bad, I'm wondering just how long you think Honda should be expected to fix your car under warranty?

I mean, if you feel you should get a free repair at 85,000 miles which is almost 50,000 miles beyond the warranty period, how long should Honda be responsible?

And one has to wonder...could the leak be from a cracked case which was impacted by something?

Has the fluid been changed etc...?

Just curious, that's all.

fish8

I can't answer your guestion about how long Honda should replace the Trans. I do know that they should at 85K.

According to the Honda dealer, the inner working of the trans are bad and therefore causing the seals to leak. It was not caused by outside damage.

All my major tune ups were done by Honda dealers. I have all the paperwork for proof, which Honda said they will need to see during my mtg with regional rep.

isellhondas

Well, I hope things go well for you.

I still wonder, however, at what point you would have considered this problem to be just bad luck and not the fault of Honda?

100,000 miles?

125,000 miles?

200.000 miles?

I remain curious and wish you well.

fish8

Just for arguments sake I would say over 100K and I would not press the issue with Honda.

What do you think?

bodydouble

The tranny is covered under the powertrain warranty, not the 3/36.

cokane5227

come on isell, this is a honda accord maintenance forum, if nobody posts about their problems, what is the use of this forum? should be shut down in that case. therefore of course you see a bunch of people complaining about their problems everyday, that's what this forum is for. just like i did when i first bought my accord months ago, getting used to the car, getting used to honda product characteristics, and getting minor problems fixed, i was posting here to get some feedback from experienced people. now all my problems are gone, i barely come here anymore. so i don't really think you need to worry about this forum making a big influence on potential honda buyers. people have their faith, just like i did when i bought my accord although i knew about the transmission problem.

silvercoupe

I had a transmission in a Chevy Malibu go bad at 55,000 miles. Who do you think paid for the replacement? ME!!!! GM would not even consider helping out with the cost.

Think I will just stick with my Honda.

paulo3

The powertrain warranty in the USA is 3 years 36K. Most other manufacturers are 5 years 60K. If Honda was smart, they would go to a 5 Year 60K powertrain warranty like eg. Toyota or Nissan.

isellhondas

I don't understand your post...? Of course, people come here to tell of their troubles and share their experiences. I think that's a good thing.

Paulo..." If Honda was smart"

Well...actually, they are pretty smart. They feel they have a strong reputation of building quality cars that have little need for a longer warranty.

Longer warranties do cost money but personally, I agree with you. My thinking is that it would be a smart move for Honda to add a bit to the price of the car (like the others do)and go to a longer powertrain warranty. I do know that the length of a warranty can be a determining factor for some buyers. Hyundai is a good example of this. Some folks actually buy them based on the warranty and little else. Makes no sense to me, but we all have different ideas.

But then...I'm not in Honda's marketing department, and the've never invited me back for a brainstorming meeting on the subject.

isellhondas

O.K., you've answered my question...100,000 miles.

What do I think?

Well...I'm old enough to remember when 85,000 miles was a long time for a transmission to go. It wasn't uncommon for a transmission to need a rebuild around 50,000 miles.

The people who go around saying "they don't build them like they used to" are correct...they build them much better.

Again, good luck!

lugwrench

isellhondas-I think Paulo was trying to convey the message that Honda "should" have a 5yr/60K like its competition. If you look around, Honda has one of the shortest powertrain warranties in the business. Even VW increased their warranty program!

fish8

Thanks isellhondas. I am still waiting to hear from Honda. It's been 5 days.

If car makers (especially domestic) made cars like they used to....they would be out of business.

maxhonda99

mike_gold, I have a friend with a 92 Accord, , with over 170K miles on it. Again, as you say in the NE(the rustbelt). No rust. And that's with minimal care. And I've seen plenty of other previous generation accords without rust. In fact, I don't think I have seen many at all with rust on the body panels.

isellhondas

Oh, I understood what paulo meant, and I even agree. I know I've lost sales to Toyota because of the longer warranty.

My point was that there is a cost associated with these longer warranties, a cost that Honda thinks is unnecessary I suppose.

I say, why not raise the price of the cars by a couple hundred dollars and copy Toyota's warranty?

But again...Honda hasn't asked for my opinion.

Actually, for nervous buyers, they can sign up for Hondacare. Of course, they will pay for this but it'll give them 7 years / 100,000 miles.

This way, they can opt for the longer warranty and pay for it if they think it's necessary.

bodydouble

The Powertrain is only 3/36 for the US? That's weird because for Canada it's 5 yr/100,000 km. How long is the bumper-to-bumper for US then?

leomaccord1

When I went to buy my 02 EX, I got purchased the warranty for 1400 bucks. Sure, it's alot of cash up front and my last Accord (98 LX) went over 90K when I foolishly traded it in, but I had done nothing other than routine maintenence so I didn't see the need the Extended warranty. BUT, the dealer also told me that if I go 100K without ever using the warranty, I will get a full reimbersment of $1400. Not bad...

bodydouble

Did he put that in writing? Sounds too good to be true.

lugwrench

The Honda regular warranty in the US is 3years/36K bumper to bumper. The powertrain warranty is the same---3yr/36K.

Maxhonda--well, you must be the only guy that hasn't seen the rust in the rear above the wheel wells. It is all over where I live and you can see it especially in 1994, 1995 and 1996 Accords.
Definitely a Honda engineering problem the way the back panels with the ledge are configured.

fish8

no help from Honda....trade in time

isellhondas

Well...trade in on what?

Understand you're frustrated but can understand Honda's position too I guess.

Just remember, the same thing (or worse)could happen on any other make too, perhaps even sooner.

fish8

I'll find out and keep you informed.

bodydouble

Can you really say with a straight face that you honestly believe the automatic transmission in a modern automobile, given proper maintenance, can reasonably be expected to fail inside of 85K miles? If that's the case, then buying extended warranties should be a no-brainer.

mikegold_1966

If the Honda Regional won't help, go the next step up. It is listed in your owner's manual but I wouldn't throw in the towel.

I suggest you go to the NHSTA and copy as many TSB on transmissions pertaining to your engine and vehicle year. Have the documentation ready when you meet with Honda. Have all your maintenance records ready regarding the service you had at Honda with your transmission. Pretty sure fluid changes are at 30K and 60K which are both major services.

If you like your car, fight for it and point out to them that Honda transmissions have been less than stellar. If it is to much of a hassle for you, I guess your only alternative is trade in your car. Don't trade it in to your selling dealer if for some reason you decide on another Accord. Go to a different dealership for the trade. Most likely though, once burned by a transmission failure---you will probably look at another car manufacturer.

mikegold_1966

You have to remember that isellhondas sells Honda's for a living. That "Ostrich effect" is prevalent in his answer.

bodydouble

isell has always had the "see no evil, hear no evil" philosophy right back to the beginning of this thread. I guess you can't bite the hand that feeds you!

isellhondas

I'm perfectly capable of answering questions that are directed to me. I really don't need your help.

Bodydouble, I'll ignore your last sarcastic post and try to answer your question.

Let's assume first of all, that Fish takes great care of his/her Honda. The car isn't driven in an abusive maner by a 16 year old, and let's assume the transmission fluid has been changed a couple of times.

Let's just assume it failed in spite of things.

To answer your question, bodydouble, no I don't think it's reasnoble for a modern automatic to fail in 85,000 miles. They should last longer than that, and the majority do.

So, what is a "normal" life? I really have no idea, but let's say it's 175,000 miles. I just picked a number here.

I guess that means some would last 80,000 miles and others would go 300,000 miles before failing.

So...the person who went 300,000 miles is happy and the guy who went 80,000 is ticked. Right?

just because I happen to sell Hondas has nothing to do with the way I happen to feel on this subject as much as some would like to dispute.

So, how do I really feel?

I guess I am thinking that if the car has a 3/36 warranty, and the transmission fails at 40 or 50 thousand miles, I would expect some kind of a goodwill adjustment to be made. I think that would be a nice gesture from ANY company instead of saying "tough luck, your warranty expired".

But...85,000 miles? That is almost 50,000 miles past the warranty. I mean, where does it end?

This is why I asked Fish what he/she thought was the point Honda shouldn't be responsible.

I think the answer was 100,000 miles..so, if it has lasted another 15,000 miles that would have been acceptable.

And...sorry folks, these transmissions do NOT have a "less than stellar" reputation.

Or, I dunno...maybe every part in every car should be warrantied forever?

Fish...I do wish you well. Let us know what happens.

bodydouble

Let's not waste time for either of us debating this further. But obviously you have a different (lower) personal standard as to what constitute as a "problem". I have read this thread from the beginning, and every issue (be it mechanical or fit and finish) that any poster has brought up with the Accord, your response has always been that you haven't seen it and don't think it's a problem. Even your last post follows this trend. For your information, as good as Honda has been with reliability, their automatic transmission has always been one weak point. In other words, it does have a less than stellar reputation compared to, say, Toyota's, or Nissan's. But you're entitled to whatever attitude you want to have. If it helps you sell more cars, then all the power to you.

cynic

I agree with Isell. I think he has been very reasonable regardless of the topics discussed.
My personal opinion is no car maker has to be blamed if the transmission fails at 85k. Tough luck but things do break.

paulo3

Isellhondas has a tendency to believe everything he posts here. His answers have been so one sided in that they favor Honda that he has lost all objectivity in his posts. I think that wraps it up in a few sentences.

isellhondas

I do believe everything I post here or I wouldn't say the things I do.

I'm just waiting for someone...anyone...to tell me how long a manufacturer should fix a product for free after a warranty has long expired?

And, bodydouble, if you think Honda transmissions are "less then stellar", please...I know you don't believe me...just ask any transmission rebuilder how they hold up compared to other makes.

cynic, Thank you. I do try to be open minded and objective in these forums. I just hate misinformation.