"Personally, I don't think this is that big of a deal in the first place" Probably not. But you know why this is important? Because Honda kept on bragging in the early to mid nineties about what great handlers Hondas and Acuras were because of this "race inspired double wishbone suspension". Now we hear that it was not all that important after all. I have trouble swallowing that.
Ask any auto mechanic in your garage isellhondas what the better suspension is? Also asks them which costs more to fix.
By the way, yes the BMW has struts but so does the Dodge Neon, Chevy Cavalier and the Ford Taurus. Also, you should note their resale value on the open market. You build a car cheaply and that's what happens. Next time a customer comes in isellhondas, tell them you are a Honda share holder and I bet they look for another salesman that isn't!
I can see your point also. As technology changes, what made good sense five years ago may not do so now. Something else may achieve better results at a lesser cost. I do, however, hear complaints about the new Civic handling...mostly anonymous postings on the web. So I do take them with a grain of salt.
They used to use vacuum tubes in electronics. Technology evolves. I've asked this question before. If you have your own business and have the opportunity to make a modification to your product that the vast majority of users will never notice and there were additional benefits from the change (such as more interior room) would you do it?
I drove an Accord with the double wishbone suspension for 13 years. I now drive a vehicle with front struts. Hasn't made a bit of difference to me. And I am the target consumer, not the gearheads who would notice if they changed a bolt on the underside of the oil drain pan.
As to equating resale value with McPherson struts, puhleeeze.
And finally, again lugwrench, et al. If you feel Honda has sold you out and now builds cheap vehicles----buy something else. Stop whining about it, it has happened. They aren't going back to your beloved double wishbones.
I see his point that he is trying to make. You would sell any Honda product no matter how good or bad it is because you are a shareholder. As a shareholder, you are only concerned about the bottom line----You know--the Corporate thing!
Years ago, as a very young manager for Sears, I invested in their Profit Sharing plan. Every dollar went into Sears stock...scary, I know...
Most of us did the same thing.
I never heard a customer say " We better not shop at Sears!...The employees are shareholders!"
And...I've never been able to do a good job of selling a product I don't believe in. As an example, I am no fan of anything Volkswagen and I'll try to steer my used car buyers away from them. If they are determined to buy one anyway, I'll be happy to write up the sale!
Here is a quote from the auto issue of the latest Consumer Reports regarding the new Civic. "The ride is less supple than the previous model, and the road noise is pronounced." Conclusion---Struts don't give you a great ride like the double wishbone". It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure this out guys!
isellhondas---you would still sell a VW for the all mighty buck? Sears--no wonder they are no longer the number #1 retailer in the USA! To many of the employees invested in the company!!! That is a joke by the way!!!
>Here is a quote from the auto issue of the >latest Consumer Reports regarding the new Civic. >"The ride is less supple than the previous >model, and the road noise is pronounced." >Conclusion---Struts don't give you a great ride >like the double wishbone". It doesn't take a >rocket scientist to figure this out guys!
In making that statement concerning ride and road noise did CR address these questions: Same tires? Same tire size? Same wheel size? Same air pressure? Same loading? Same type of suspension bushings (rubber vs urethane)? Same road surface? Amount of sound insulation on car? Same Civic model (comparing EX to EX, LX to LX, etc.)? Was an older generation Civic with wishbone suspension there for direct comparison or was CR going off of memory? etc., etc., etc..... My point is I can take any of those variables above and apply them to the same identical car and alter ride quality and road noise dramatically.
I'm not a rocket scientist either, just an engineer. Take what CR says with a grain of salt, there are just too many variables here, especially for something as subjective as ride quality.
Only way to find out if the strut suspension compares to the wishbone is to drive it yourself and see if it is acceptable. Some will say yes, some will say no.
As you are aware (or maybe not), Consumer Reports utilizes engineers in all their testing. They keep extensive records on all their tests and have thousands of customer responses to the annual auto survey that they utilize. As any engineer (even train) realizes, they take the some of all the surveys, tests, road tests, and extensive documentation to formulate their conclusions.
Tires tested are OEM which is the standard issue on Honda Civics. I suppose you could put a old set of Firestone 500's on a Lexus LS 430 and get a lousy ride. I think your hypothesis is flawed with subjective reasoning.
In conclusion, I think you are another one of the Honda fanatics that believes Honda can do no wrong. Well, they cheapened up the vehicle so what do you expect? A ride not comparable to the old double wishbone.
People today want more interior space. They are not interested in double wishbone, race inspired suspensions. Why? Their commute does not include driving through a race track. If I could change my suspension to strut to get my snowboard to fit in the trunk I would. I think Honda has bigger issues than its suspension.
>As you are aware (or maybe not), Consumer >Reports utilizes engineers in all their testing. >They keep extensive records on all their tests >and have thousands of customer responses to the >annual auto survey that they utilize. As any >engineer (even train) realizes, they take the >some of all the surveys, tests, road tests, and >extensive documentation to formulate their >conclusions
First let me clear this up: I'm a licensed professional engineer and not a train operator. Second, I fully understand how CR puts together their data, as well as the use of empirical test data. They put together valuble information with this data, especially when it is something that is clearly definable, such as component failures, gas mileage, etc. However, I also understand that when putting together results/conclusions on a subject that is 100% subjective, (and yes, ride quality is 100% subjective) you have to assume that the results drawn are NOT conclusive. One person's good ride quality is another person's harsh ride quality versus another one's soft ride quality.
>Tires tested are OEM which is the standard issue >on Honda Civics. I suppose you could put a old >set of Firestone 500's on a Lexus LS 430 and get >a lousy ride. I think your hypothesis is flawed >with subjective reasoning.
My reasoning is NOT flawed, however yours clearly is. I do thank you for reinforcing my point that lousy tires CAN influence ride quality. That's my whole point. In your assertions that strut suspensions have a inferior ride quality compared to double wishbone you are placing blame only on the suspension type. There are DOZENS of other components in a vehicle suspension that influence ride quality. Until you remove all other variables, i.e. make everything else identical, blaming the strut suspension alone carries as much weight as saying that a car's color has an impact on it's ride quality.
>In conclusion, I think you are another one of >the Honda fanatics that believes Honda can do no >wrong.
I conclude that you are another Honda basher. Does that statement really prove anything thing? No. Once again, rhetoric replaces facts and common sense.
No, I am not a Honda fanatic, and have had numerous brands of vehicles in my lifetime. I do presently own 2 Honda vehicles, but I buy the best overall vehicle for my needs, whoever makes it. I would be making the same arguments if it were a Toyota, VW, GM, or whatever we are talking about.
>Well, they cheapened up the vehicle so >what do you expect? A ride not comparable to the >old double wishbone.
Do you have any facts (besides the rhetoric you continue to spout) that Honda cheapened up the vehicles? What are the cost savings per vehicle on using a strut suspension versus using a double wishbone suspension? Let's suppose they did save $20 per vehicle, but they were able to improve other aspects such as crash safety, increased interior room, etc. Does that still make a "cheapened vehicle"? I don't know that as a fact one way or the other, and my guess is neither do you.
Look, as far as I'm concerned the new Civic may have an inferior ride quality compared to the last generation of Civics. I really could care less as they are not vehicles that I consider for my personal needs. However, equating struts with inferior ride quality and cheapening a vehicle is wrong. There are PLENTY of vehicles on the market that have a good ride quality and are not cheap that use a strut suspension. Yes, the new Civic has a strut suspension, and yes, the ride quality of the new Civic may have suffered in some people's opinions. However, placing blame solely on the struts is wrong, and equating that to cheapening a vehicle is wrong as well. Period.
I remember that Honda gushed for years and years in the sales literature of its cars about the double wishbone suspension for it being superior to McPherson steups, better handling, better tire contact, more compact design, better interior room and a lower hood and windshield cowl.
Well it seems that Honda changes opinions like the wind changes direction. That's how we humans are. What we cherish today, we despise tomorrow.
Now Honda is tauting its switch to McPherson struts as the right thing to do..LOL.
Quite honestly I have owned 6 Honda Accords (1989-1996) and 2 Acuras (1995-2000) and after having driven all these cars with *superior* double wishbones and now driving a vehicle with *inferior* McPhersons, I just don't see the difference and all the hoopla surrounding Double Wishbones.
I am sure Double Wishbones are great in the race track, but real life everyday driving, come on!
"There are PLENTY of vehicles on the market that have a good ride quality and are not cheap that use a strut suspension. Yes, the new Civic has a strut suspension, and yes, the ride quality of the new Civic may have suffered in some people's opinions. However, placing blame solely on the struts is wrong, and equating that to cheapening a vehicle is wrong as well. Period."
Yes, the Honda Civic has now joined the Ford Escort and the Ford Focus as a McPhearson Strut member. Three great little cars with McPhearson struts.
Wow--McPhearson Struts---I just will have to go out and buy a new Civic or Focus--what a selling point! At 80K, I can go to Sears and have them install the replacement struts and get a wheel alignment to boot!
Ok isellhondas---I keep hearing you always mention BMW's when you talk about struts. The thing I don't understand is why you never mention Kia and Hyundai in the same breath.
I bet deep down inside you would love to sell BMW's over Honda Accords ? Is this BMW a Freudian slip isellhondas?
Other "great" cars that utilize struts are the Chevy Cavalier, the Ford Contour, and the infamous Yugo!
ed---I have to admit, I couldn't have said it better!
Also, I like that statement for years Honda highlighted their double wishbone suspension as a selling point. Various posters say that people don't care about good handling? It must be true then, because the new Civic doesn't handle as well as the old "double wishbone" Civic and people don't care?
The next thing Honda posters will start saying are 12 inch wheels give a better ride than 16 inch wheels on the new 2003 Accord!
Who says the 7G Civic doesn't handle as well as previous models? You? That means nothing to me and shouldn't mean anything to anyone else.
Car and Driver didn't seem to have a problem with the MacPherson (yep that's how it is spelled, even I had it wrong) set-up on the RSX. They said the RSX was a vast improvement over the Integra and named it one of their 10 best. So you know more than them?
Quit whining and move to another manufacturer since Honda has let you down. Geesh, this doesn't take too many gray cells to figure out or does it? Or are you a masochist?
Yes this is the forum where you discuss quality control issues regarding the HONDA ACCORD!
Everyone has a right to share their opinion. carguy62---I read in Consumer Reports Auto issue that the new Civic didn't handle as well as the old. I think that was what MikeGold was referring to.
First of all, I don't need you to tell me what to do regarding my car purchases. Seeking advice from you would be something I would never consider. You come here I firmly believe to start trouble and never discuss anything in an intelligent manner that merits qualification.
Anselmo1 understood right away that Civic handling comparison between the new and old was indicated from the April auto issue from Consumer Reports.
Had to vent and promise I will never bring up the Civic suspension again in a Honda forum. Sadly, it would really be nice if posts from carguy were left blank.
Hey Mike--everyone knows how carguy is---argumentative and always sure he is correct.(Which he isn't). Most of the time, people take his comments with a grain of salt. I think he has aspirations on being the new "resident Honda expert" of this forum. His knowledge speaks for itself (cough cough).
Because you disagree with them? Because I dare question someone's blanket statement and actually give evidence to support my posts? Have I said something that wasn't true? Perhaps equating the RSX to the Civic isn't 100% accurate but my point was that a car magazine, whose specialty is reviewing vehicles, found the MacPherson strut front suspension performed very well. If you have a problem with that, take it up with them. Don't blame the messenger.
That's the beauty of this forum, everyone can express an opinion. Sorry you don't like it. I don't like your posts but I don't go crazy over them. Life is too short.
I think it's pretty simple. You don't like Honda's suspension, buy something else. No rocket science there that I can see. You are complaining about something that is a fait accompli, I would think you have better things to do, but I guess I am wrong.
And I know other automakers use a version of the double wishbone, so I would think if that system is important to you (no problem with that) that's what you'd be looking at, but again I guess I am wrong. You'd rather complain that the Civic doesn't have it. Like I said, life is too short.
bought a 02 accord coupe, it made an obvious vibration at speeds beyond 60mph, went into the dealer for 3 times, first time they told me there's nothing wrong, second time they told me it's cuz of certain road surfaces, which i knew was not true, so for the third time i talked to the service manager, he took me in again and checked it, i scrached my rim once when parking, i was aware of that, and he told me it's the scrached rim that's making the vibration, i was very annoyed of the problem and having to wake up at 6 in the morning and come to the dealer for service, so i paid $250 to change it without even thinking. the vibration went away after that. so i thought, good, i got it fixed and i changed my scrached rim. the later when my car got really dirty and i went for a carwash, after that i found the scrached rim still on my car, juz moved from right front to left rear. they didn't changed the scrached rim, and it wasn't my fault for the vibration, and it should have been covered under warranty. and i paid for it. that's really messed up, i didn't go bak to the dealer, cuz i really don't have the time to argue with them for juz $250, but this thing is really messed up, for a very large car company and for a really large dealer, they shouldn't cheat the customer in such an obvious way, u can cheat me, i'm only a regular customer i'm no mechanic and i don't have time to check if u cheated me or not. but u shouldn't make it THAT obvious even I can find out. last, this is just fawked up. that's all i can say.
You mean the DEALER switched the rims around for you but billed you for a new rim? I think you should call Honda Customer Service, the police, BBB, your lawyer, your priest, etc. and maybe not even in that order! You can't let them get away with something that blatant.
I would think the commission structure at a BMW dealership would be more advantageous to a salesman. Terrific markup in the BMW as compared to the Honda Accord.
I have a friend that is a salesman at a Porsche dealership. (No Audi included). He makes over 100 grand a year plus perks. Not bad for a guy that is only 28 years old!
Say a picture today of the new 2003 Accord in Motor Trend magazine. Actually, they were sketches and the new Accord really looks dynamic! Completely different from what I expected!
Those sketches always make the cars look sleeker. For one thing, they'd draw in those big oversized wheels with the low-profiled tires which would change the appearance of any car.
FWIW, one salesperson I spoke with claimed to have seen pictures of the '03 Accord. And she didn't exactly gush over it. She said simply that it looks better than the Camry (wouldn't take much) and that people will accept it! Hmmm...
isell--All that I know is my friend goes to work each day wearing Armani suits wearing his Rolex watch with the Wall Street Journal tucked under his arm. He has a Porsche demo that he drives back and forth to work. He was salesman of the month of December and January and won an all expenses paid trip along with $2 grand in spending money to Curacao. His condo is also in the exclusive area of town with valet parking and an underground garage area. Not bad for a 28 year old. He has been only selling Porsche's for three years and no his father or any other relative does not own the dealership.
I currently drive a '99 Accord EX V6. It is my sixth Honda. I will not buy any other brand, which limits me in my selection of vehicles. My Accord is the best vehicle I have ever owned, and continues to make strides in the right direction. Honda usually gets things right the first time, I would not hesitate to buy a '03 in September. I have not had any problems with any of my Honda's, all bought new. (87 CRX, 90 Accord LX, 96 Civic EX, 97 Odyssey, 99 Accord EXV6, 01 CRV) I did make a mistake once, in '93 I bought a Pontiac Transsport. I leased for 5 years but it was so bad quality wise, I took a big loss after 4 years just to dump the thing. My point is, until you have experienced the quality of other makes to compare, you don't know how great you have it. You don't need extended warranties if you: a) buy Honda OR b) lease for the term of the warranty
An interesting quote from a book titled Millionaire Next Door. "Few millionaires drive luxury import cars and few luxury import car drivers are millionaires."
dc's friend was driving a demo from the dealer, so he didn't even have to pay for the thing. So technically he may still "qualify" to be a millionaire. I don't agree with the book anyway. All my rich clients drive import luxury cars.
Comments
I have no idea myself...
Personally, I don't think this is that big of a deal in the first place. I have yet to hear from EVEN ONE customer about this.
I guess that to you, anyway, the double wishbones are more important than interior space and crash test ratings?
BMW uses struts too and I think we would all agree that these will out handle a Civic.
As far as cost cutting...why not? as a shareholder in Honda I'm looking at that bottom line too.
Probably not. But you know why this is important? Because Honda kept on bragging in the early to mid nineties about what great handlers Hondas and Acuras were because of this "race inspired double wishbone suspension". Now we hear that it was not all that important after all. I have trouble swallowing that.
I'm just saying that my customers don't seem to care one way or the other. The car either handles well or it does not.
It just bothers me when someone jumps to the conclusion that the change was simply a cost cutting decision.
And I think it's great that Honda's engineers were able to make the change without affecting the handling of the car.
By the way, yes the BMW has struts but so does the Dodge Neon, Chevy Cavalier and the Ford Taurus. Also, you should note their resale value on the open market. You build a car cheaply and that's what happens. Next time a customer comes in isellhondas, tell them you are a Honda share holder and I bet they look for another salesman that isn't!
I drove an Accord with the double wishbone suspension for 13 years. I now drive a vehicle with front struts. Hasn't made a bit of difference to me. And I am the target consumer, not the gearheads who would notice if they changed a bolt on the underside of the oil drain pan.
As to equating resale value with McPherson struts, puhleeeze.
And finally, again lugwrench, et al. If you feel Honda has sold you out and now builds cheap vehicles----buy something else. Stop whining about it, it has happened. They aren't going back to your beloved double wishbones.
Wow! I better call my broker and sell it!
I guess as a customer I would trust a salesperson who believes in his product enough to invest in the company that makes it.
What am I missing here...?
Most of us did the same thing.
I never heard a customer say " We better not shop at Sears!...The employees are shareholders!"
And...I've never been able to do a good job of selling a product I don't believe in. As an example, I am no fan of anything Volkswagen and I'll try to steer my used car buyers away from them. If they are determined to buy one anyway, I'll be happy to write up the sale!
"The ride is less supple than the previous model, and the road noise is pronounced." Conclusion---Struts don't give you a great ride like the double wishbone". It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure this out guys!
isellhondas---you would still sell a VW for the all mighty buck? Sears--no wonder they are no longer the number #1 retailer in the USA! To many of the employees invested in the company!!!
That is a joke by the way!!!
>latest Consumer Reports regarding the new Civic.
>"The ride is less supple than the previous
>model, and the road noise is pronounced."
>Conclusion---Struts don't give you a great ride
>like the double wishbone". It doesn't take a
>rocket scientist to figure this out guys!
In making that statement concerning ride and road noise did CR address these questions: Same tires? Same tire size? Same wheel size? Same air pressure? Same loading? Same type of suspension bushings (rubber vs urethane)? Same road surface? Amount of sound insulation on car? Same Civic model (comparing EX to EX, LX to LX, etc.)? Was an older generation Civic with wishbone suspension there for direct comparison or was CR going off of memory? etc., etc., etc..... My point is I can take any of those variables above and apply them to the same identical car and alter ride quality and road noise dramatically.
I'm not a rocket scientist either, just an engineer. Take what CR says with a grain of salt, there are just too many variables here, especially for something as subjective as ride quality.
Only way to find out if the strut suspension compares to the wishbone is to drive it yourself and see if it is acceptable. Some will say yes, some will say no.
Tires tested are OEM which is the standard issue on Honda Civics. I suppose you could put a old set of Firestone 500's on a Lexus LS 430 and get a lousy ride. I think your hypothesis is flawed with subjective reasoning.
In conclusion, I think you are another one of the Honda fanatics that believes Honda can do no wrong. Well, they cheapened up the vehicle so what do you expect? A ride not comparable to the old double wishbone.
>Reports utilizes engineers in all their testing.
>They keep extensive records on all their tests
>and have thousands of customer responses to the
>annual auto survey that they utilize. As any
>engineer (even train) realizes, they take the
>some of all the surveys, tests, road tests, and
>extensive documentation to formulate their
>conclusions
First let me clear this up: I'm a licensed professional engineer and not a train operator. Second, I fully understand how CR puts together their data, as well as the use of empirical test data. They put together valuble information with this data, especially when it is something that is clearly definable, such as component failures, gas mileage, etc. However, I also understand that when putting together results/conclusions on a subject that is 100% subjective, (and yes, ride quality is 100% subjective) you have to assume that the results drawn are NOT conclusive. One person's good ride quality is another person's harsh ride quality versus another one's soft ride quality.
>Tires tested are OEM which is the standard issue
>on Honda Civics. I suppose you could put a old
>set of Firestone 500's on a Lexus LS 430 and get
>a lousy ride. I think your hypothesis is flawed
>with subjective reasoning.
My reasoning is NOT flawed, however yours clearly is. I do thank you for reinforcing my point that lousy tires CAN influence ride quality. That's my whole point. In your assertions that strut suspensions have a inferior ride quality compared to double wishbone you are placing blame only on the suspension type. There are DOZENS of other components in a vehicle suspension that influence ride quality. Until you remove all other variables, i.e. make everything else identical, blaming the strut suspension alone carries as much weight as saying that a car's color has an impact on it's ride quality.
>In conclusion, I think you are another one of
>the Honda fanatics that believes Honda can do no
>wrong.
I conclude that you are another Honda basher. Does that statement really prove anything thing? No. Once again, rhetoric replaces facts and common sense.
No, I am not a Honda fanatic, and have had numerous brands of vehicles in my lifetime. I do presently own 2 Honda vehicles, but I buy the best overall vehicle for my needs, whoever makes it. I would be making the same arguments if it were a Toyota, VW, GM, or whatever we are talking about.
>Well, they cheapened up the vehicle so
>what do you expect? A ride not comparable to the
>old double wishbone.
Do you have any facts (besides the rhetoric you continue to spout) that Honda cheapened up the vehicles? What are the cost savings per vehicle on using a strut suspension versus using a double wishbone suspension? Let's suppose they did save $20 per vehicle, but they were able to improve other aspects such as crash safety, increased interior room, etc. Does that still make a "cheapened vehicle"? I don't know that as a fact one way or the other, and my guess is neither do you.
Look, as far as I'm concerned the new Civic may have an inferior ride quality compared to the last generation of Civics. I really could care less as they are not vehicles that I consider for my personal needs. However, equating struts with inferior ride quality and cheapening a vehicle is wrong. There are PLENTY of vehicles on the market that have a good ride quality and are not cheap that use a strut suspension. Yes, the new Civic has a strut suspension, and yes, the ride quality of the new Civic may have suffered in some people's opinions. However, placing blame solely on the struts is wrong, and equating that to cheapening a vehicle is wrong as well. Period.
From my vantage point, 99 out of 100 people could care less about wishbones vs. struts! I never hear about this.
People do want, however five star safety ratings and increased interior space. They also want a car that rides and handles well.
And that is exactly what they get!
Well it seems that Honda changes opinions like the wind changes direction. That's how we humans are. What we cherish today, we despise tomorrow.
Now Honda is tauting its switch to McPherson struts as the right thing to do..LOL.
Quite honestly I have owned 6 Honda Accords (1989-1996) and 2 Acuras (1995-2000) and after having driven all these cars with *superior* double wishbones and now driving a vehicle with *inferior* McPhersons, I just don't see the difference and all the hoopla surrounding Double Wishbones.
I am sure Double Wishbones are great in the race track, but real life everyday driving, come on!
YES SIRE!!!!, YES SIRE!!!!!!
Are you a Boot Camp Sargeant???
Hey, I guess if someone thinks this change is so horrible, they can go buy something else.
Like an Impala or something...
Wow--McPhearson Struts---I just will have to go out and buy a new Civic or Focus--what a selling point! At 80K, I can go to Sears and have them install the replacement struts and get a wheel alignment to boot!
You got to love those McPhearson Struts guys!
Too bad Honda won't Import the Type-R Accord sedan.
Honda NA......never ending blandness and boredom....
I guess grandma's Impala is a whole lot more exciting!
And lugwrench...you forgot to mention BMW and a few others.
I bet deep down inside you would love to sell BMW's over Honda Accords ? Is this BMW a Freudian slip isellhondas?
Other "great" cars that utilize struts are the Chevy Cavalier, the Ford Contour, and the infamous Yugo!
Also, I like that statement for years Honda highlighted their double wishbone suspension as a selling point. Various posters say that people don't care about good handling? It must be true then, because the new Civic doesn't handle as well as the old "double wishbone" Civic and people don't care?
The next thing Honda posters will start saying are 12 inch wheels give a better ride than 16 inch wheels on the new 2003 Accord!
The change has been made, move on. Obviously Honda isn't for you anymore, be an adult and deal with it instead of whining about it.
Car and Driver didn't seem to have a problem with the MacPherson (yep that's how it is spelled, even I had it wrong) set-up on the RSX. They said the RSX was a vast improvement over the Integra and named it one of their 10 best. So you know more than them?
Quit whining and move to another manufacturer since Honda has let you down. Geesh, this doesn't take too many gray cells to figure out or does it? Or are you a masochist?
You are speculating about a design change we have no solid reason to believe will take place in a car that will not be introduced for months.
There is already a thread to discuss the 2003 Accord. Perhaps your bad attitudes and magical crystal balls will be of more relevance there.
twist
Everyone has a right to share their opinion. carguy62---I read in Consumer Reports Auto issue that the new Civic didn't handle as well as the old. I think that was what MikeGold was referring to.
Lets get back to talking about the Honda Accord.
Anselmo1 understood right away that Civic handling comparison between the new and old was indicated from the April auto issue from Consumer Reports.
Had to vent and promise I will never bring up the Civic suspension again in a Honda forum. Sadly, it would really be nice if posts from carguy were left blank.
That's the beauty of this forum, everyone can express an opinion. Sorry you don't like it. I don't like your posts but I don't go crazy over them. Life is too short.
I think it's pretty simple. You don't like Honda's suspension, buy something else. No rocket science there that I can see. You are complaining about something that is a fait accompli, I would think you have better things to do, but I guess I am wrong.
And I know other automakers use a version of the double wishbone, so I would think if that system is important to you (no problem with that) that's what you'd be looking at, but again I guess I am wrong. You'd rather complain that the Civic doesn't have it. Like I said, life is too short.
last, this is just fawked up. that's all i can say.
How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?
I have a friend that is a salesman at a Porsche dealership. (No Audi included). He makes over 100 grand a year plus perks. Not bad for a guy that is only 28 years old!
Completely different from what I expected!
FWIW, one salesperson I spoke with claimed to have seen pictures of the '03 Accord. And she didn't exactly gush over it. She said simply that it looks better than the Camry (wouldn't take much) and that people will accept it! Hmmm...
isellhondas--commission on an Accord vs. BMW? You can make a heck of a lot more selling BMW's!
Is it that luxury car salesperson make more on commission?
Just curious.
I'm happy. I work for great people, family owned. They treat me very well and the store is six minutes from my home.
I doubt very much if I would make more selling BMW's. Besides, I'm done wearing a suit and tie to work. Did that too many years.
My point is, until you have experienced the quality of other makes to compare, you don't know how great you have it. You don't need extended warranties if you:
a) buy Honda OR
b) lease for the term of the warranty