As a skiing fanatic a number of years ago I tried and loved helicopter skiing in British COlumbia. I was put in with a group of people who had been helio skiing together for a number of years. Became friends with them, visited them in summers. They owned a variety of airplanes from float planes-one guy owns an island in a New England lake to Gulfstream's and lots of places at various spots around the world. None of these people drove flashy cars and none of them wore flashy clothes. One guy sold a clothing store chain for a few hundred million and when he showed up for helio skiing that year-he was sporting a new pair of sneakers from Kaldor's/Kmart-which he bought for $7. His old ones fell apart and did we give him the razz for spending all that money.
These people have wealth, know have to live and have nada to prove to anybody. The Europeans in the group had to be careful of being flashy as kidnapping the wealthy was a problem in those days. Yeah it is fun to see the flash types spending their money-good thing it makes the economy go.
Not sure if your state participates but the Big Game is over 100 million. We have a pool at work, like everyone else we like to dream. I'd still drive a Honda, well maybe an Acura.
The guy is single, has his own condo, demo Porsche, a Rolex and probably hundreds of women after him and his money. Being trapped is being married with 4 kids, selling Dodges, having a Dodge Neon as a demo, wearing a Timex and working 65 hours per week.
Hey dc--does the guy save his money? How many 28 year olds that are single living it up invest in the Oppenheimer Fund?
How many Honda salesman wear imported suits and Rolex watches to work? At my dealership there is only ONE and he is the owner of the dealership! All the Honda salesman at my dealership look like they shopped the men's department at K-Mart and buy their shoes at Payless. Is this a Honda salesman fashion statement or what?
At the dealership where I bought my Accord, all the salesman wear suits, sport jackets and ties. They all look professional and presentable. Most likely, the General Manager requires a lot of his sales staff and they seem to sell a lot of vehicles. They have a board posted with each salesman's name and the number of vehicles they sold by day. The salesman that sold me my Accord in one week alone sold 19 total units. (Accords, Civics, Passports, S-2000 etc.). When I bring my car in for servicing the salesman that sold me my Accord always has an open invitation to have coffee with him. He even showed me the Honda Pilot video on his VCR in his office. My salesman, Al, must do ok for himself financially. He told me he works a 5 day work week with Tuesday and Sunday off. He has been at the dealership for over 10 years. Prior to selling cars, he told me he sold Life Insurance for 17 years.
All of the salespeople at the dealers in my town dress casually, with a few exceptions. Worse yet, a lot of them act like a doofus. Overall, I'm not too impressed with the quality of Honda's salespeople. However, 2 of the dealers that I've dealt with have excellent service personnel.
I had to wear coats and ties for too many years in my former life.
Our store maintains a "Country Club" dress code. I usually wear a nice pair of slacks and a pressed dress shirt. The customers seem to view this style as non threatening.
I have a Seiko and a Movado watch that I alternate.
I try my best to make my customers feel at ease and comfortable.
I'm always happy to see my customers when they are in for service but certainly do not have the time to sit down and drink coffee with them.
"The guy is single, has his own condo, demo Porsche, a Rolex and probably hundreds of women after him and his money. Being trapped is being married with 4 kids, selling Dodges, having a Dodge Neon as a demo, wearing a Timex and working 65 hours per week."\
Sorry, but I think it is the other way around. material possesions and money are not going to give you lasting happiness. Women might make you happy, but it gets to a point. Nothing compares to the happiness of driving an everyday car, wearing a Seiko watch, having a job, a beatiful wife and kids waiting for at home. That's real hapiness...
Ummmm, maybe. But it also sure as heck won't make me unhappy!
BTW, what joy do you get from driving an everyday car and wearing a Seiko, unless you're talking about the "joy" of not having to worry about someone stealing it or wrecking it?
Perhaps of not being "Tied" to expensive material possesions.
The more you have the more your life revolves around your posessions.
I am a simple guy that has nothing to prove to nobody else, hence my thinking.
Life demands a balance. I have known rich people that are the unhappiest human beings on earth. They lack certain things in life that none of their money, cars, properties, power can buy, such as love, a caring hand, honesty, etc.
I have met financially poor people that in despite of their daily struggles live happy because they love and support each other and find joy in the simplest things in life. Sitting around the table for dinner, hugging their wifes/husbands, playing with their kids, etc, etc.
Everyday I drive by a Ferrari, Porsche, Lotus dealership. I take a glance at all those beatiful cars in the pristine lighted showroom. Sure, I would love at least to take one for a spin. But I also think how can someone rationalize a $200K automobile when there is so much hunger, poverty and overall need in the world??
Hard to tell.
I get a thrill of the simple things in life, that's all.
...I tend to break wristwatches, so whether the watch comes from WalMart or the best jeweller in town, I couldn't care less either way. It'll get lost or broken anyway!
As for driving an everyday car, well, I'd rather drive one that I can easily afford without having to go to a ramen-noodle and peanut butter sandwich diet, than drive something flashy that's going to have a mortgage-sized monthly payment. Now if you can comfortably afford that flashy car, that's another story.
If you have to live beyond your means to get the flashy cars, etc., then sttropez is right about being tied to your possession. But if you can easily afford it, then, hey, why not?
First of all everyone, he loves his job and the money he makes. When he talks to you, he always says "Life is Good" in just about all his conversations.
isellhondas--I asked him and he does invest but only in sure things. He told me that he only purchases annuities at 6% interest or higher. Also, he will be able to retire at age 40 as long as he doesn't get married--then maybe 50! He indicated that he does not take risks financially.
If you saw all the pretty women my friend takes out, you would be impressed. They all look like models and many would look great in the yearly January Issue of Sports Illustrated.
As far as his clothes and watches, he told me he "dresses for success". The guy is really happy but is wise enough to wait for the "right woman" to come into his life.
Last night he told me he has sold two Porsche's this week with a third pending. Nice chunk of change via his commission structure and bonus.
"If you saw all the pretty women my friend takes out, you would be impressed. They all look like models and many would look great in the yearly January Issue of Sports Illustrated."
Unfortunately it appears to be that these models are enamored of his Porsche, clothes, money, condo and success.
Put the same guy in a Honda Accord and see if any of those women will get near him within 10 feet of distance!
Your theory has some validity but you're generalizing. You put a dweeb in a Porsche and an Armani suit and he'd still be a dweeb (albeit one in a nice suit and car!). Aside from a few bimbos and golddiggers, I'd like to think most women assess the total package. DC's friend sounds like he's got his act together. And unless he looks like Marlon Brando with constipation, He'd get his fair share of babes with or without the Porsche.
I know this is been brought up before but what percentage of parts on the new 2003 Accord will be Honda made and not outsourced? This trend seems to cause problems for Honda in some critical areas. isell mentioned about the transmission outsourced in Japan that caused problems for the V-6 back in 1998.
The thing that alarms me is the working agreement Honda know has with GM on parts. Let's face it, GM is not the best producer of alternators for automobiles. Come to think of it, they are the worst!
Ask the Volkswagon people about the high quality cars they produce near Mexico City. The Beetle has been a constant problem since it has been built there!
Well, I would rather see Honda build a plant in Mexico than in Red China. I can't seeing supporting Communism!
You won't believe me but Honda plants all have the same quality standards. Of course the people running them may be better or worse at various locations. That's why I bought one from Japan. Someday this Japanese automaker won't have any Japan produced vehicles for sale here. Does Toyota send any over? Maybe the Celica?
Toyota actually sells several Toyota/Lexus models made in Japan. The Celica is one of them.
All Lexus models are made in Japan. This will change next year when the next generation RX300 Suv will be the first Lexus assembled in the US at the Georgetown, KY plant, where the Camry, Avalon and Sienna are currently made.
I used to think all Honda plants have the same QC, but no more. We just picked up our new '02 Accord and it's the same hit and miss build quality as my CL. Panel gaps are uneven. The gap between the rear bumper and the quarter panel is pretty wide. I asked the salesperson if that can be fixed. She said no. She even admitted that there is a marked difference in build quality between Japanese and American built models. And sure enough, I looked around at various cars sitting at the dealer and quality of the Accords were very inconsistent. They all seem to have flaws, just in different areas. Whereas for the CR-V's (japanese built) the build quality was consistently good from car to car. That, combined with what I feel is increasing cost-cutting measures by Honda, does not bode well for Honda quality in the future. It will be very interesting to see whether the '03 Accord continues, or reverses, this trend.
You know which car company really impresses me with fit and finish and quality? Subaru. I was just casually checking them out at the auto show, and I was impressed with the quality of the interior material. The doors had a real solid "thunk" when you close them, even with the windows open. It's sad, but that's what Hondas used to be like in the early '90s. The '94 Accord seemed to mark the beginning of the decline.
This is an interesting topic. I bought a 2001 Acura CL, and I was very disappointed with its fit and finish. Fenders were misaligned, the driver's door fit poorly, several dashboard pieces were misaligned and one broke, the trunk lid was misaligned, ect. For these (and other reasons) I traded it in on a 2002 Accord V6 sedan. The Accord is much better put together, but still not as good as the Infiniti G20 I have (which was made in Japan). While Honda seems to be having some quality control problems, they at least so far are better than most American cars.
When I started this topic, I knew from the start that the American produced Hondas in Ohio were not of the same quality standards as Japanese Accords. Fit and Finish has been discussed numerous times in the forum.
It has been posted numerous times that the EPA US standards of a water based paint defer from the Japanese oil based paints on Accords. The Japanese do not have to adhere to the same US EPA standards in their painting of automobiles. Ask any body shop which is better--water based or oil based paint--and the answer 99.9% of the time they will answer oil based.
I have also viewed the fit and finish on Japanese produced Accords as compared to its US counterpart. There is no comparison! The fit and finish is far superior on Japanese produced Accords.
I would take the "J" made Accord over the Ohio built Accord. Fit and finish is far superior as well as the oil based paint.
Simply put, the Japanese take more pride in building a car than let's say the worker at the Ohio plant. In Japan it is a way of life, in the USA it is just a job.
isellhondas-take a hard look next time at the gaps in the American built Accord.
I would think you would need to spend more time in a car to realize the quality or lack of it. I could not see anything wrong with my US built Accord until I had it for a while. 2nd week something in the glove box came loose and was rattling around. The dealer said that the screws were not bolted in enough. Lost of so called American car problems since then. Funny thing the American cars in my family aren't having parts fall off.
For your information american cars are not spray painted with water based paint. Aromatic solvents such as acetone and methyl ethyl ketone are used along with resins and pigments. Their may be a small amount of water in the formula as an emulsion but the paint is primarlly a solvent based paint. The main difference between some of the paints used in japan are high bake paints which afford more gloss and a harder finish perhaps thats what you all are trying to convey. Most people cannot tell the difference between japanese paint and others. Sometimes if a body shop is not experienced and does not match the color and uses the wrong type of paint formulation you will see a slight difference. I have been retired for 3 years but I believe these type of paint systems are still in use.
"I have yet to see even the slighest difference between US build and Japan built Accords."
Here's an idea. You may find it off-the-wall. Next time you go in to work, try TAKING A LOOK at the cars you're trying to peddle off. If you had said there isn't a SIGNIFICANT difference between US and Japanese built Accords, then I may just write that off as subjective difference. But when you said you haven't seen the SLIGHTEST difference, then either you're selling cars with your eyes closed or you're smoking something illegal.
BTW, when you said there is no difference, are you saying they are all bad, or all equally good?
Then Canada must get stiffed with the bad ones because every salesperson that I've spoken with on this topic has admitted that there is a noticeable difference.
Isell, read my post again. The undertone of my message was that I don't believe what you said. There is no way in hell that after selling a thousand new Hondas, as you put it, that you have yet to detect the SLIGHTEST (as in NONE, ZILCH, ZERO) difference between American v. Japanese made models.
Of course, we all have to keep in mind that you're also the same chap who swears on his mother's grave that you have never encountered any Toyota with sludge problems, despite all the current hoopla from Toyota owners over that issue. I guess if you keep denying any problem exists, it's easier to tell that to your customers with a straight face.
I have walked the lot of my local Honda dealership and I can tell the difference even before I look at the vin number. The giveaway is the gaps where the plastic bumpers meet the metal of the car. One side on the Ohio Accord might be fine but the other side might have a gap of 1/4 to 2/3 larger. Next time, try the pencil test and you will see what I mean.
I'm done with you. I really don't appreciate being called a liar.
But for the rest of the readers...I've seen both U.S. built and Japan built Accord with defects from the factory...not often, but things happen sometimes. Nothing is ever perfect.
I have NOT seen any more or different problems on cars that are built one place or the other.
Canadian refuses to believe me even though I haven't the slightest reason to come here and fabricate a story. I don't come here to sell cars, promote myself or my business. Long time participants know this.
And, I have never sworn on my mother's grave about anything!
But, I haven't run into any sludged Toyotas...sorry to disappoint you. I will say that I now do believe the problem exists under certain conditions. I have slowly come to grips with this once rational people started posting along with the crackpots.
And, I am well aware that no Accords are built in Canada. You didn't answer my question either.if you think Japanese Civics are built better than Canadian ones.
Oh...nevermind. I don't even want to hear your answer!
Toyota is my biggest and best competition. They build excellent cars.
I guess I could have rubbed my hands with glee when this whole sludge business started.
But I didn't. Instead I jumped in and flatly stated that in all of my years in the automotive business I had only seen sludge as a result of owner neglect.
I saw a lynch mob forming and I didn't think it was right. to me, it looked like a "pity party" of posters who were blaming a company for something they caused themselves.
And I said as much...looks like I was not entirely correct.
Well I AM glad we're done. You may not be a liar, but I don't know what the hell your problem is. Maybe you should take your job more seriously. You seem to have a very cavalier attitude about selling cars, and seem damn proud of it. Bottom line is if your boss can tolerate that then it's none of our business. From reading your posts, you seem to trivialize problems that people post about and justify it by saying that you personally have never come across such problem. Read the previous post from paulo. I have seen first hand what he said. You'd have to be in freakin' coma not to see the difference.
Comments
These people have wealth, know have to live and have nada to prove to anybody. The Europeans in the group had to be careful of being flashy as kidnapping the wealthy was a problem in those days. Yeah it is fun to see the flash types spending their money-good thing it makes the economy go.
Hey, the guy is doing ok in life for his age.
Otherwise he could be forever trapped in a job he may not always enjoy.
To each his own...
Hey dc--does the guy save his money? How many 28 year olds that are single living it up invest in the Oppenheimer Fund?
How many Honda salesman wear imported suits and Rolex watches to work? At my dealership there is only ONE and he is the owner of the dealership! All the Honda salesman at my dealership look like they shopped the men's department at K-Mart and buy their shoes at Payless. Is this a Honda salesman fashion statement or what?
Our store maintains a "Country Club" dress code. I usually wear a nice pair of slacks and a pressed dress shirt. The customers seem to view this style as non threatening.
I have a Seiko and a Movado watch that I alternate.
I try my best to make my customers feel at ease and comfortable.
I'm always happy to see my customers when they are in for service but certainly do not have the time to sit down and drink coffee with them.
For me, this works.
Sorry, but I think it is the other way around. material possesions and money are not going to give you lasting happiness. Women might make you happy, but it gets to a point. Nothing compares to the happiness of driving an everyday car, wearing a Seiko watch, having a job, a beatiful wife and kids waiting for at home. That's real hapiness...
BTW, what joy do you get from driving an everyday car and wearing a Seiko, unless you're talking about the "joy" of not having to worry about someone stealing it or wrecking it?
The more you have the more your life revolves around your posessions.
I am a simple guy that has nothing to prove to nobody else, hence my thinking.
Life demands a balance. I have known rich people that are the unhappiest human beings on earth. They lack certain things in life that none of their money, cars, properties, power can buy, such as love, a caring hand, honesty, etc.
I have met financially poor people that in despite of their daily struggles live happy because they love and support each other and find joy in the simplest things in life. Sitting around the table for dinner, hugging their wifes/husbands, playing with their kids, etc, etc.
Everyday I drive by a Ferrari, Porsche, Lotus dealership. I take a glance at all those beatiful cars in the pristine lighted showroom. Sure, I would love at least to take one for a spin. But I also think how can someone rationalize a $200K automobile when there is so much hunger, poverty and overall need in the world??
Hard to tell.
I get a thrill of the simple things in life, that's all.
Sorry for the interruption of the topic at hand
As for driving an everyday car, well, I'd rather drive one that I can easily afford without having to go to a ramen-noodle and peanut butter sandwich diet, than drive something flashy that's going to have a mortgage-sized monthly payment. Now if you can comfortably afford that flashy car, that's another story.
BTW, I love ramen noodles!
isellhondas--I asked him and he does invest but only in sure things. He told me that he only purchases annuities at 6% interest or higher. Also, he will be able to retire at age 40 as long as he doesn't get married--then maybe 50! He indicated that he does not take risks financially.
If you saw all the pretty women my friend takes out, you would be impressed. They all look like models and many would look great in the yearly January Issue of Sports Illustrated.
As far as his clothes and watches, he told me he "dresses for success". The guy is really happy but is wise enough to wait for the "right woman" to come into his life.
Last night he told me he has sold two Porsche's this week with a third pending. Nice chunk of change via his commission structure and bonus.
Unfortunately it appears to be that these models are enamored of his Porsche, clothes, money, condo and success.
Put the same guy in a Honda Accord and see if any of those women will get near him within 10 feet of distance!
Temporary happiness my friend, that's all.
Hopefully his bubble won't pop!
The thing that alarms me is the working agreement Honda know has with GM on parts. Let's face it, GM is not the best producer of alternators for automobiles. Come to think of it, they are the worst!
This isn't a *bad* thing, it's just the way things are done. Honda is hardly capable of manufacturing their own radios for instance.
They demand the same quality control checks from their vendors as they do in the parts they manufacture themselves.
Well, I would rather see Honda build a plant in Mexico than in Red China. I can't seeing supporting Communism!
All Lexus models are made in Japan. This will change next year when the next generation RX300 Suv will be the first Lexus assembled in the US at the Georgetown, KY plant, where the Camry, Avalon and Sienna are currently made.
That, combined with what I feel is increasing cost-cutting measures by Honda, does not bode well for Honda quality in the future. It will be very interesting to see whether the '03 Accord continues, or reverses, this trend.
It has been posted numerous times that the EPA US standards of a water based paint defer from the Japanese oil based paints on Accords. The Japanese do not have to adhere to the same US EPA standards in their painting of automobiles.
Ask any body shop which is better--water based or oil based paint--and the answer 99.9% of the time they will answer oil based.
I have also viewed the fit and finish on Japanese produced Accords as compared to its US counterpart. There is no comparison! The fit and finish is far superior on Japanese produced Accords.
I think it's pure hogwash that any differences exist.
But...what do I know ?
If I get the one in a thousand customer who demands a "J" car, I'll do my best to find one.
I think it's a placebo effect.
Simply put, the Japanese take more pride in building a car than let's say the worker at the Ohio plant. In Japan it is a way of life, in the USA it is just a job.
isellhondas-take a hard look next time at the gaps in the American built Accord.
Here's an idea. You may find it off-the-wall. Next time you go in to work, try TAKING A LOOK at the cars you're trying to peddle off. If you had said there isn't a SIGNIFICANT difference between US and Japanese built Accords, then I may just write that off as subjective difference. But when you said you haven't seen the SLIGHTEST difference, then either you're selling cars with your eyes closed or you're smoking something illegal.
BTW, when you said there is no difference, are you saying they are all bad, or all equally good?
This subject pops up in these forums from time to time.
The last time, I did, in fact, spend time comparing Japan cars to US cars side by side.
I couldn't tell any differences and seriously doubt that you could either.
Now...I'm not saying that differences don't exist. I'm just saying that *I* can't detect any.
You can think whatever you wish however...I don't care!
And, in my seven year career, having sold probably a thousand new Hondas, I think I've had maybe three customers mention this.
Give me a break! I thought you were talking about minor differences in the quality of assembly or something.
I guess this brings up another question. Do you think the Canadian ones are also inferior to the Japan ones too?
Again, I can't see any differences.
Isell, read my post again. The undertone of my message was that I don't believe what you said. There is no way in hell that after selling a thousand new Hondas, as you put it, that you have yet to detect the SLIGHTEST (as in NONE, ZILCH, ZERO) difference between American v. Japanese made models.
Of course, we all have to keep in mind that you're also the same chap who swears on his mother's grave that you have never encountered any Toyota with sludge problems, despite all the current hoopla from Toyota owners over that issue.
I guess if you keep denying any problem exists, it's easier to tell that to your customers with a straight face.
But for the rest of the readers...I've seen both U.S. built and Japan built Accord with defects from the factory...not often, but things happen sometimes. Nothing is ever perfect.
I have NOT seen any more or different problems on cars that are built one place or the other.
Canadian refuses to believe me even though I haven't the slightest reason to come here and fabricate a story. I don't come here to sell cars, promote myself or my business. Long time participants know this.
And, I have never sworn on my mother's grave about anything!
But, I haven't run into any sludged Toyotas...sorry to disappoint you. I will say that I now do believe the problem exists under certain conditions. I have slowly come to grips with this once rational people started posting along with the crackpots.
And, I am well aware that no Accords are built in Canada. You didn't answer my question either.if you think Japanese Civics are built better than Canadian ones.
Oh...nevermind. I don't even want to hear your answer!
paulo...I will look at the bumper caps.
I guess I could have rubbed my hands with glee when this whole sludge business started.
But I didn't. Instead I jumped in and flatly stated that in all of my years in the automotive business I had only seen sludge as a result of owner neglect.
I saw a lynch mob forming and I didn't think it was right. to me, it looked like a "pity party" of posters who were blaming a company for something they caused themselves.
And I said as much...looks like I was not entirely correct.
I still don't really understand.
Read the previous post from paulo. I have seen first hand what he said. You'd have to be in freakin' coma not to see the difference.