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Low End Sedans (under $16k)



  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,924
    I know I have seen the Century advertised in my area under $17,000. It may have been a one-time deal, maybe a year-end closeout, maybe even a demo, who knows. But they usually do go for over $17k. Personally I wouldn't buy a Century at any price--just not my kind of car. And not a low-end car either.
  • protegextwoprotegextwo Posts: 1,265
    Buick Century
    Chevy Malibu
    Dodge Caravan/Chrysler Voyager
    Dodge Neon ACR and R/T
    Ford Focus ZTS, ZTW, ZX3 and ZX5
    Ford Taurus/Mercury Sable
    Mercury Cougar
    Olds Alero
    Pontiac Grand Am
    Saturn SL2 and SC2
    Saturn L100

    Yuk! I would not purchase any of these cars. Just my opinion. I'm sure some of these are fine. However, nothing here is top box or leads their respective segments in style/function, reliability or build quality. I do agree the Focus and Dodge Caravan/Chrysler Voyager are respectable vehicles and good values. Just not my cup of tea.

  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,924
    >>> However, nothing here is top box or leads their respective segments in style/function, reliability or build quality. <<<

    Generally true, but... the Focus is "top box" in its class according to Consumer Reports and Car and Driver, to name two independent sources. The DaimlerChrysler minivans are generally regarded as the most stylish minivans, also the best riding and handling. And the Century and Saturn SL have very good reliability records.
  • protegextwoprotegextwo Posts: 1,265
    Merry Christmas and have a happy New Year! Be safe and enjoy some time with family & Friends. Best wishes for the holidays and a hope for a prosperous New Year for all!

    God Bless,
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,924

    You know
    Accent and Lancer and Focus and Spectra,
    ECHO and Neon and Civic and Sentra,
    but do you recall
    the least pricey small car of all?

    Rio, the smallest Kia,
    has a very pleasing price
    but if you'd ever drive one
    you wouldn't think it's quite so nice.

    All of the other small cars
    used to laugh and call him names;
    they never let poor Rio
    join them driving down the lanes.

    During the recession of zero-one,
    Santa came to say,
    "Rio, with your price so light,
    Won't you guide my sleigh tonight?"

    Then all his owners loved him,
    and they shouted out with glee,
    "Rio, you have a low price
    plus the greatest warranty!"
  • Did you write that yourself? It's very clever. Merry Christmas!
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,924
    It is original. I am seeking professional help after the holidays. Well, gotta go assemble Barbie's Play House...
  • Comfort, quality, performance. Although Brent loved his Accord, when he and his wife comparison shopped they looked at many small and mid size sedans. Both felt the ECHO looked and felt cheap (which is quite different from my opinion). Brent says Honda are nice vehicles but are NOT worth the price.
  • protegextwoprotegextwo Posts: 1,265
    What is the relevance of your lovely families choice of vehicles, (over 15 years ago!!!), have with this discussion? Somebody please, direct Carleton back to the NEWS & VIEWS board. I'm sure their is some topic called "Why did my step-son, a Volkswagen Passat owner buy a Cheverolet Impala?", that would welcome his thoughts on Domestic mid-size sedans vs. Imports mid-size sedans. BTW, who is Brent?

  • Since rude behavior seems to be the norm for some posters here, please scroll back to read the question posed by protegextwo.
    Brent is a former owner of a Honda Accord who looked at most small sedans and purchased a 2000 Malibu. Since the answer does not please protegextwo, it appears that he feels he must be sarcastic.
    And yes, John and Nikki had a Mazda MPV (SUV...not the anemic, underpowered MINI-van) and they traded it in on a Honda Passport made by Isuzu. Apparently not everyone is as impressed with Mazda as is protegextwo.
  • tazerelitazereli Posts: 241

  • Backy, just wondering about the second paragraph of your poem. You say that people won't think the Rio is so nice if they drive one. Was that what you meant or was it a freudian slip?
  • That move to a Honda Passport was a really good move :P (I am just kidding).

    Carleton...Maybe everyone is not as impressed with Toyota as you are :)
  • I do NOT personally know of one Toyota owner who has had problems with reliability. Toyota does not rebadge inferior products as Honda has done with the Isuzu built Passport.
    Yes, not everyone is as impressed with Toyota quality as I am since there are many other brands seen on the highways. Aren't we lucky? Without GM Suburban or Ford Expedition, there would have been no incentive for Toyota to built the very nice Sequoia to compete.
    Notice how Honda copied Toyota and came out with the CR-V after Toyota showed them how with the RAV-4?
  • I agree about the RAV4 thing. Honda is never original in anything. Wait until you see the next Accord...the rear is supposed to look like the last Camry's end.
  • protegextwoprotegextwo Posts: 1,265
    Who has the faulity memory?

    #204 of #209 Toyota is ONE foreign brand that is NOT over rated by carleton1 Dec 28, 2001 (07:05 pm)

    "Toyota has the best reliability and quality record of any automobile maker that mass produces vehicles.
    People love to brag about "Honda Reliability" that has not materialized with many people I know who have owned Hondas. BUT...not one problem with a Toyota."

    by Carleton1

    #17 of #143 I agree with Mr Shiftright (Host) by carleton1 Dec 22, 2001 (09:17 pm)

    "We will NOT buy any more junk after having bad experiences with 2 NEW Volkswagens, 1 NEW Volvo, and 3 used Volkswagens. Our 11 NEW GM vehicles and 1 NEW 1999 Grand Caravan have been far more reliable than any of the foreign made JUNK.
    I will buy a Honda, Toyota, Kia, etc. when the reliability becomes as good as GM, DC, and Ford and the foreign brands have as much comfort and quality vehicles made by the Big 3 at a comparable price....."

    by Carleton1

    Carleton, which is it? Toyota = poor reliability? or Toyota = top box reliability?

  • READ the postings. Here are the facts:
    #1. "Toyota has the best reliability and quality record of any automobile maker that mass produces vehicles."
    #2. "I will buy a Honda, Toyota, Kia, etc. when the reliability becomes as good as GM, DC, and Ford and the foreign brands have as much comfort and quality vehicles made by the Big 3 at a comparable price....."

    WHAT is it about "at a comparable price" that you can not understand?

    The Sienna is the MOST reliable minivan. We did not buy a Sienna as it is MUCH more expensive and is considerably smaller than our GC and has fewer nice features.

    Summary: Toyota has the Best reliability. If we have problems with our GC, we won't buy another DC product. We would not get a Mazda MPV (Most Puny Vehicle) since it is too small with too little engine power. What Mazda comes close to matching Toyota in sales or reliability?
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Play nice. Or Santa will take back your new toys. ;->

    Sedans Message Board
  • Very well stated rebuke.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,924
    The second verse about the Rio was NOT a slip. It's a reflection of my opinion that people should not expect the lowest-priced car in America to drive like a Lexus. I haven't driven a Rio (nor do I really want to) but general opinion seems to be that it's basic transportation, with fairly nimble handling and cute styling, and good room for its size. What do you expect for $8000?

    Also, I needed some words to rhyme with the preceding line. ;-)
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,924
    A local Hyundai dealer is offering Accent L hatchback(s) for $6,995, including destination. That's almost $2500 off MSRP. The ad led me to think about what kind of new car you can get nowadays for only $7000. I think most people would consider this car to be basic transportation: small, low-power engine (92hp), small tires, no A/C (available as an option of course). But then I thought about the new 1980 Corolla Deluxe 2-door sedan for which I paid $5100 + TTL 22 years ago. I thought it was a step up in many ways from my previous car, a '76 Corolla Deluxe 2-door. It was bigger, more powerful, with a better ride, and if you squinted your eyes it looked like a BMW 320. Sort of. The Corolla had a 3-speed automatic vs. the Accent's 5-speed manual, but here's what the Accent has that the Corolla did not:

    4-wheel independent suspension (Corolla was RWD)
    Front and rear stabilizer bars
    Full wheel covers
    Variable intermittent wipers
    AM/FM casette stereo with 4 speakers
    Cloth upholstery
    Folding rear seat
    Power steering
    Adjustable steering column
    Front and rear cupholders
    Front door pockets
    Remote fuel door (Corolla had a locking fuel door)
    Dual remote mirrors
    Dual air bags
    Front seat belt pre-tensioners
    5 year/60,000 mile bumper-to-bumper warranty
    10 year/100,000 mile powertrain warranty

    I think back in 1980 Toyotas had a 12 month/12,000 mile warranty--I lost the sticker (the only new-car sticker I don't have from all my vehicles :-( ).

    So considering inflation, I think low-end car buyers have it pretty good here in the waning hours of 2001.
  • Yes, this is a good deal. But I would argue that a lot of that stuff you have above are standards of today, not twenty years ago. Yet, it is a good deal.
  • rezo00rezo00 Posts: 103
    There is no good reason to buy any of thoes super economy cars (starting at or under 14grand) your better off and will get more miles out of a slightly used car less then 15k miles, which often can be found for that price... this should be obvious to all of you, after all your car buffs...never mind the amazing deals you can get at a real car auction (dealer only)...
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Alamogordo, NMPosts: 7,615
    to believe he lives in Antarctica. Haa-haa-haa-hee-hee-tee-hee-hee-haa-haa! Yep, Kia and Hyundai dealerships should be few and far between at the tip of the globe like that! Forces 'ya to buy at those "blue-ice specials", eh?

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,924
    Well, call me crazy, but I like knowing that the only person who has driven my car is ME. I like knowing that my car was properly broken-in, to avoid problems down the road. I like knowing that my car has been meticulously maintained. I like knowing that my car has the full manufacturer's warranty, including a 10-year powertrain warranty. I like that my car still has its new-car smell after 14 months because it's always been kept clean and has never been smoked in. I like it that my car still has a showroom finish because of frequent washings (never with those paint-scratching brushes) and waxings. I like it knowing that when I do choose to sell my car, it will command top dollar in its market because of its condition and service history. And I especially like it that I was able to pay less than $12,000 for a brand new car that is a better car IMO than a used Civic or whatever that would probably have cost more.
  • Carleton... Excuse me, I do own a 1997 Toyota RAV4 L. It has been a great car (except for the brakes, very scary). I also own a 2000 Mazda Protege which I find to be superior to the RAV but I still love my Toyota very dearly. I am equally impressed with Mazda's reliability and quality and find their cars to be much more exciting (wish I had bought the Tribute.) Yeah the MPV may be under powered but Mazda is putting a bigger engine in it. Toyota has some weak cars in its line-up as well (not naming any names). I am impressed with Toyota but for you to sit there and say everyone should be seems a little rude.
  • Thanks--that's exactly the way I felt after reading that "crazy" post!
  • Today I saw a 2002 Spectra sedan, the first one I've seen onthe road. It looks much better in photos I think. It's an ok car but it doesn't stand out and shout. Its front is somewhat bland. I like the hatchback version better. The Elantra is better than both I think.
  • I saw my first new Spectra hatchback the other day, and it was much better looking in person, IMO. At first, I thought it was an Elantra GT, until I saw the grill.
  • rezo00rezo00 Posts: 103
    I relly love selling new cheap tin can cars to you just proves that the vast majority of people just dont know any better....o well I will just line my pockets with your peeps probably actually pay msrp HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
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