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The problem is that one seller would not sell me a set of 4tires for my Kia because the book that indexes the tires for the KIA specifies 185/65/14R(H) and the tire they sell is a 185/65/14R(s). The difference is that the "H" indicates a high rating on the speedometer which on my Kia max's out at 135mph. The "S" tire 'ought(?)' only to be sold to vehicles below 100mph. Therefore she would not sell me the tires. Now maybe she didnt want to honor what I considered a good deal or maybe they just dont like Korean Cars and wont sell tires to Korean Car owners. In any event, I went to another dealer and bought the "S" tire for less money than the first dealer. I didnt lose on the deal, nor did it raise my blood pressure, but it was an inconvenience, particularly when I had shopped and had made my decision to buy the first dealers product from whom I had purchased several sets of tires in the past for various cars I've owned. I havent figured it out yet, but maybe there isnt anything to figure out. Supreme
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Just had to share. Even the paint still looks brand new on this 2-year old baby of mine.
After operating the 2000 Kia Sephia since April 2000 and putting on 40,000 miles including long haul trips from Green Bay to NYC and Green Bay to Ft Lauderdale I find that my vehicle has operated free of defects. I liked saving $1000 by purchasing the model without power steering & upgraded wheels, but I would have to think hard as to whether I would go without power steering again even on a little car. City parallel parking is a real chore. The body metal is paper thin, but I have been prudent about parking & avoiding dings & dents as much as I can. The white paint has held up very well and it still looks as good as a baby Benz. I think my needs are shifting to more of a mid-sized car, but it has delivered every cent of value for the $8600 (t&t incl). It has been a winner in my book. Supreme
Compacts are generally more fun to drive. My Sentra was loads more fun to throw around corners than my Galant is. They have an immediacy in response that can only come through light weight or extreme doses of money (the reason BMWs feel so good). They are fuel efficient, easy to park, and inexpensive to buy. The best of them are also smooth and quiet on nice roads. All of which are traits I value highly.
Where the Mid size excels is first in size, which is just the laws of physics at work. The Protege is close, but is still a compact in the way it goes down the road (light weight has its advantages, but disadvantages too). Mid size cars, at least the good ones, havea certain solidity in their ride and control motions, that lighter cars lack. The steering wheel of my Galant still tells me what the tires are doing, but without the constant corrections and that indescribable "thinness" in feel.
The Sentra was a quiet car (1997 GXE), but there is no comparison here, I can hear the softests passages in classical music without turning up the vollume, something I can't even do in my classmate's brad new, 5 day old Corolla. In the 2nd Movement of Beethoven's 7th, to hear the opening chello, meant that the vollume soon had to be dropped to avoid blasting our ears out, not so in the Galant, or my brother's Accord or my wife's Saturn L200, midsized cars all, and much quieter than the compacts.
There is also the ride. The best compacts are excellent, better than they have any right to be, and more than up to long drives. However, when the road gets a bit rough, the differences come out. A great car will be comfortable on bad roads as well, and the difference between a compact and a mid size, is much like the difference between a mid size and a full-size. Mass doesn't like to change direction. THis is what makes small lightweight cars handle so well, and also what makes them jiggle on bad pavement. THe same weight that makes mid size cars clumsier in handling, makes them ride smoother.
Well there is my $.02. I love compact cars, but until gas hits $4 a gallon or I move out of the big city (and away from the traffic), I won't go back to one any time soon.
with the Elantra being larger in rear headroom, front and rear hiproom and front shoulder room. The only two areas where the Mitsu does noticibly better are rear legroom (about 1.5 inches more) and trunk space. Most of the modern compacts such as the Focus and Elantra squeeze in a lot more room than they used to because of increased height.
I drove a last gen. Sentra while my Elantra was getting hail damage fixed and the differences were noticible. Also looked at a last gen. Accord for my daughter and it seemed less roomy than the Elantra in many dimensions.
I like the Elantra GT, a lot, however it is simply not in the same class, something that was very obvious in driving it.
Lawman, have you driven an Elantra, or Focus, or Lancer, or the new Corolla on a long trip? If you do I think you will find that none of them have high enough levels of NVH to make them tiring on long trips. They are not quite as quiet as, say, a Camry, but not far off. Throw in an exceptionally comfortable driver's seat (at least on the Elantra), and it's a fine highway cruiser. BTW, I noticed the Camry I drove last weekend had quite noticeable wind noise around the driver's side at 45-55 mph, whereas my Elantra has no wind noise until you get past 70-75 (which I rarely do). That wind noise can get tiring, especially on an otherwise quiet car.
Re preferring the Elantra over the Camry: if they were both the same price, I'd take the Camry. For $8000 less, I'll take the Elantra. The Camry isn't $8000 better to me than the Elantra. Yes, the Camry will have higher resale value, based on percentages; but it starts out 67% more expensive, so you'll lose more money on the Camry than the Elantra. Example: say after 4 years the Elantra is worth 40% of original price and the Camry 60% (made-up numbers for illustration purposes); you've lost $7200 on the Elantra and $8000 on the Camry. I won't get into the "invest the difference" argument here, which makes the Elantra equation even better.
I have driven all of the cars you mentioned, including a two hour drive each way from in a rented Focus, and found all of them comparable to the 97 Sentra I owned, which is to say quiet, comfortable and very competent cars. There is no comparison to a midsize though.
I recently drove a 2001 Camry from Seattle to Los Angeles (21 hours), and that car was infinitely more comfortable than the very best compacts would have been on that trip. While the Camry was nice, it wouldn't compare with the Crown Victoria I drove cross-country some years ago. A bigger car tends to ride smoother, and to require less input at the wheel when cruising on the highway.
Mass and momentum work, and cannot be avoided. Just as light weight makes for nimble handling and response, higher weight makes for an enhanced tendancy to keep going in the direction a car is already going, be that in regard to straight ahead, or to not bounding up and down on rougher pavement. It takes more to change the motion of a heavier car, and that can be felt in a smoother ride, everything else being equal. In this case, everything else IS equal. Camrys, Galants, Accords and their ilk are every bit as sophisticated as their smaller bretheren, and simply provide a different driving experience based on their adherence to the laws of physics.
I like the Elantra, but I am very glad that I moved up to a midsized car this time, I really do feel and hear the difference.
http://www.autoweb.com.au/start_/showall_/id_DAE/doc_dae01111221/article.html
They'll sell this car in America me thinks.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Back to the low-end cars, I checked out the Kias and was not impressed by the value of the Spectra compared to, say, the Elantra and even the Corolla. A well-equipped Spectra hatchback was $15,600, and for that you could get an even better equipped Elantra GT (a much better car IMO) or a Corolla S or LE 5-speed. Of the Kias, the Sedona was most impressive in quality and features for the money.
Daewoo had two new models on display; neither had a name badge. I assume the large one was the Magnus. It was classy looking, except for the grille which I think is overdone. The smaller one I assume is the next-gen Nubira, but it was a 5-door configuration, tall-wagon style, with raised rear seats and a lot of interior room. It also had a feature I have never seen before in a car: airliner-like trays that fold up from the front seatbacks. They also folded back down with slight pressure, so I'm not sure how useful they are. Maybe there was a support I couldn't find.
The Hyundai display featured the new Tiburon, which I think is a slick piece with an upscale leather interior--loaded with a V6 for $19,000. But they had only one of every other model, and NO Elantra GT! The XG350 was classy in black, but I sure wouldn't want to keep it clean.
I checked out the Civic Si but was put off when the woman on the turntable announced the base price was $19,400. That's a lot for a Civic 3-door hatchback. They had a Civic hybrid, but not the new Pilot.
I took a quick look at the Suzuki Aerio, they had only the 5-door. It reminded me of a 7/8th scale Civic wagon from the '88-'91 generation. A little stubby for my taste, but with lots of room and 141 hp, it could be a sleeper.
I did only cursory looks at cars which which I am familiar, like ECHO, Focus, Lancer, and Protege.
I did spend a lot of time checking out potential replacements for my '99 GCS when I turn it in in a couple of years. That's off topic, so I'll just say that I was most taken by the MPV LX (now with decent power), the CR-V LX, and the Passat wagon. But there'll be lots of other choices within 2 years, like the Pilot and redesigned Odyssey and Sienna, and maybe the Mazda 6 wagon.
Tip of the Day: if you own a pair of those 2-way radios, like walkie-talkies with a 2-mile range, BRING THEM TO THE AUTO SHOW!!!!
I felt the same way you did, about my car, the '01 Elantra GLS. I still don't see anything that can top it for the money ($11k in these parts). The Corolla may be a better car, but a lot more bucks. The Sentra is a joke, IMO--a recent 4-door redesign without a practical rear seat and a lousy shifter. Even my '97 Sentra had a decent shifter, and a roomier back seat than the current generation. It's not the looks of the Si that get me, because I had a '85 Civic S that had somewhat the same shape. It's paying an Acura-level price for it that stops me cold. Shoot, a Mercedes hatchback lists for $25k, and the new BMW 1-series will start at around $22k. The value proposition for the Si escapes me. Drop it down to about $16k, and then it becomes interesting.
Geez, I don't think the Elantra GT will steal sales from the new Civic Si. I really feel the Si is a true niche vehicle. There is a Honda nameplate Si "*mod" boy following. *Sorry, can't use the starch name here, my post will get zapped. Backy, this is no slam on the very fine Elantra GT. I'm sure this nice little pocket rocket has developed it's own following with folks willing to purchase Korean vehicles. Nonetheless, the "Fast and Furious" crowd will prolly put in some extra over-time at work, to afford the Honda Si, in their world the "real deal".
-Larry
The MP3 is the slowest car in the pocket rocket segment but it still gets rave reviews becuase of it's handling. If you ask me, handling is much harder to perfect than getting speed out of a car. And for alot of people, upgradablity is a major factor. I think it is safe to say that the Civic Si will have more aftermarket support than a Mazda or a Hyundai.
Personally, I like the price and content of the Focus SVT. But reliablity is a concern and I hate the seating position. I tested a focus ZX3 before I got my protege and it felt really wierd being so high up.
The "fast and the furious" crowd is a small percentage of these sales, which would explain Honda's gradual transformation of the Civic from a sporty compact to a family compact. Pluse, the Furious crowd cares less how a car handles out of the box, and more how well it takes to modification. Which is the main reason why Honda continues to be an attraction for them.
Based on my following of the Elantra forums on Edmunds.com for nearly two years (the GT forum since its inception), I'd say you are right--about being incorrect. The majority of posters on those forums are men (of those who identify their gender). And from what I can tell, lots of those people (including me) care about their cars. Just because we paid less for our cars doesn't mean we can't care about them. The GT crew seems almost as fanatical as the Protege gang--yes, hard to believe I know, but check out the Elantra GT forum and see what I mean.
I'm saying that for every person in these forums, there are thousands who aren't. It's those thousands I was referring to. These Hyundai's deserve the recognition and following, and it is incredible what you can get for this kind of price these days, but there is still a difference between them and the higher priced competitors- that cannot be denied. Well, I guess it can be denied, but that doesn't make it so.
A guy here at work has the Hyundai LS (the big one, I think that's the model) and it is a remarkable car, smooth quiet, comfortable, and full of options. Is it the same as a Lexus? Absolutely not, but much, much better value.
-Car& Driver
http://www.caranddriver.com/xp/Caranddriver/dai/2002/march/20020314_dai_honda.xml
I agree, especially in interior quality (Corolla, Golf/Jetta) and predicted reliability for some models (Corolla, Protege, Sentra, etc.). You <i>should get more for the extra money. But the difference is not as great as many people think, or what the price difference would imply, IMO. Also in the opinion of mags like Car and Driver, which called the XG350 "Lexus-like", and Consumer Reports, which rated the Elantra on a par with the best compacts (and will recommend it as soon as the predicted reliability of the current generation can get to at least average, which the '00 model has achieved already).
As for "only men can care so much about a car"... I know many female posters in these forums who would disagree with you--they seem mighty passionate about their cars. Any women out there care to comment on that?
Either way, while obviously freddy_k didn't mean 100% of fanatics are men, I'm sure it's 90% or above.
Check it out here:
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20020313/ts_nm/autos_bumpers_dc_1016032252&cid=578
I guess it does prove that you get what you pay for.
In another segment, the Subaru Impreza scored near the bottom of its segment with only a "marginal" rating.
by Car & Driver
http://www.roadandtrack.com/RoadAndTrack/first_drives/1201_honda_civic_si.html
"In all, the Sedona ran up a total of $9,000 in damage in four such tests. In one of them, the Sedona's air bags went off when it was crashed into a flat barrier at five miles per hour. Both driver and passenger side air bags deployed, and the passenger side air bag cracked the front windshield. The total cost of repair was $4,305."
"....but if the Sedona does well on them, Kia may have a winner on their hands." NOT!!!! I could never lay down my hard earned money on such crappy vehicle?
-Larry
CAR & DRIVER
http://www.caranddriver.com/xp/Caranddriver/previews/2002/february/200202_preview_corolla.xml?Manufacturer=Toyota&Name=Corolla&class=43
I did see a new Corolla in person last week (LE I think) without the body kit and the car look decent. Nothing ground breaking. This is definatly a car for the masses.
To be honest I sat the in the Corolla this weekend and I really wasn't that impressed. Everybody is talking "Lexus Like" and I just wasn't that impressed with the interior. It's VERY plain with no interesting points to it at all. Matter of fact I was thinking german 80's cars. Boring and flat. The switch gear felt ok but I didn't think it was anything phenomenal by any means. It may drive totally different but the interior gave me that "budget" feeling. I am biased being a P5 owner but I do think the dash on the P5 is a lot more interesting.
Daewoo:
Has anyone seen that Daewoo with the rotating front seats? Man that is just odd. I can't imaging parking myself in that little car and fighting for foot space just to have a conversation. Now if that were able to figure out how to make the seatbelts work in that position THAT would be cool.
Suzuki:
Not incredibly impressed with the Aerio (sp). Seems like a nice enought car and it had plenty of room for "stuff" but the dash was kinda strange. Many budget cars this year seem like they are putting the running gear in the middle of the dash so that they can switch markets really easily. Suzuki made the dash exactly the same on both sides and they used a digital dash that they could flop back and forth in a little slot on each side
http://www.edmunds.com/new/2002/suzuki/aerio/sx4drwagon20l4cyl5m/photo_3.html
http://www.edmunds.com/new/2002/suzuki/aerio/sx4drwagon20l4cyl5m/photo_3.html
Honda:
The Civic interior is boring. However the seats they put in there are phenomenal! Monster side bolster feel like you could be in a jet fighter. The shifter even though in the dash feels great (as usual though no shift knob). I still think it looks like a door stop though.
Subaru:
WRX. Ugly. But who CARES! If I had more money AFter driving one last year and sitting in it this weekend I would still buy one in a heartbeat.
KIA:
The Spectra isn't too bad but for a larger guy like myself they really have to add tilt steering that goes a little higher. With the seat cranked down as low as it would go and the steering wheel as high as it would go I still had to wedge myself between the two. The seats are just a little too soft for my liking.
The conversion van section is very scary. They had an Aztek that had hood scoops (why?) and a jacked up 4x4 conversion van with a 21" TV.
That's all I can remember on a monday morning.
Shrique
I was told before I looked that the Impreza (my final choice) that it had an inferior interior to the Protege, but it turned out that the quality was a least equal once you looked past the bleak, uninterrupted blackness of it. I'll assume they put more effort into the WRX though.
BTW... I saw a Lexus ad for the LS430 today and it struck me how similar the front/side profile looked like the '02 Corolla, but much beefier of course. I wonder if there was a conscious effort on Toyota's part for the new Corolla to resemble the Lexus.
There's also a big buzz about the newly-unveiled Saturn Ion, the replacement for the S-Series. Check out the Saturn Ion board if you want to see pics and commentary. The exterior styling is interesting, especially the 4-door coupe; the engine is the 2.2L 137 hp Ecotech; and the interior is... well, think of the ECHO on growth hormones. At least it has full gauges.
I just chose the bottom end Imprezza over the top end of many cars that come with way more features becuase it drove nicer, handled better, and had a more comfortable (hey, I never said nicer) interior then any of them. Looking past the outward appearance took some guts though!
As for the Saturn, I expect the new Saturn should drive just as, um... zzzzzzzzz.... snore.... -what's that, I must have been driving a Saturn ;-)
Pat
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