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Unless dealers can foresee a serious sales decline or any such threat in the coming time, I don't think they'll presell undelivered stocks at preferential prices.
Similarly, a low price with unfavorable, dealer financing (kickback to the dealer from the lender) isn't a low price either. A low price: "but I had to take window etching, door edge guards, mud flaps, deck wing things, and fabric protection" isn't a low price either unless you really want that fluff and you're convinced that it's all priced at what it's worth which is surely MUCH LESS than what the dealer is likely to be demanding for such added junk.
If you can buy a 2004 Accord at invoice plus maybe a $50 doc fee plus tax and license--dollars that are only collected by the dealer and remitted to your state--you got a very good deal on a very good car. If the dealer is less willing to accept an invoice (or below) price, but is well regarded and convenient so you don't have to waste a day or more driving around and you value your time, $200 to $300 over invoice is a decent deal and the most you should be paying at this time in my opinion........Richard
Back in the old days (which in my case is 1970-1980 era) - you could buy most new cars and trucks for $200-$500 over invoice. Back then it was rare to see $299 document fees or $399 paint protection packages. I don't think glass etching had even been invented yet (which makes me wonder why all our vehicles we not stolen LOL). I recall most cars even came standard with floor mats! Most dealers had a contact at a few local banks but you still needed to talk directly with the banker to qualify for the loan (so not quite as much funny business with interest rates and kick backs as today)
I have bought 4 new cars since 1990 - and off the top of my head about $200-300 over factory invoice is what I ended up paying.
So - my long winded point is - if after adding up all the BS charges dealers try to charge today and after fighting for the best deal available - is it still pretty much $200-$500 over factory invoice?
It's this arcane business of hold backs and dealer incentives for filling quotas, etc. that makes it hard to know how much profit the dealer makes. I still don't know whether Honda pays dealers a 2% or 3% hold back and really shouldn't care so long as I don't pay much more than other careful shoppers who buy the same car--the Accord is a good car for the money at any reasonable price.
It's a sure thing that today's cars are relatively cheaper when you consider the safety, reliability, and other features that are now standard compared with cars of 30 years ago.
My'04 Accord owner's manual calls for cooling system service after the earlier of 120,000 miles or 10 years! Let a '70 Dodge or Chevy go that long and, well, it wouldn't. None of my recent cars has had grease fittings because they're all sealed and an oil+filter change is just that--no more "lube" needed.
Auto dealers must make their money in other ways or consolidate to become high-volume, low-markup retailers. New, mega-dealers are proof of that. So your $300 over invoice is much less now than it was in 1970s.....Richard
All contact besides setting up time for delivery was done by email (cut&pasted same message to each dealer). Originally contacted 7 local dealers in Northern California by email Oct 27th (links from honda.com) stating that I intended to pay invoice or less for this car before Oct 31st. All initial quotes were too high (invoice+$500 or more). Next day contacted 13 bay area dealers (2-4 hour drive for me). 4 quoted invoice+$1000 or more; 3 have not responded to my email; 4 others quoted invoice or less with little or no haggling.
Menlo
Livermore
El Cerrito
Autowest Fremont
I won't mention the moron who wanted MSRP+$200... All 4 would have to dealer trade for this color. (There were only 3 in norcal, and no dealer with this color would come down on price).
Next day called Auburn Honda internet sales (friendliest local dealer) and told them if they could do invoice (my lowest offer at the time), I'd buy it tomorrow (Oct 30th). They drove to the bay area and picked up my car. I received offers for $100 and $200 less after I had already verbally committed to Auburn. I was also quoted (invoice-$400) if I would settle for silver.
$24,258 invoice (including $460 destination)
$ 50 Doc & tire fees
$ 1,884 Tax (7.75%)
$ 523 registration (VLF...grrrr...davis...)
--------
$26,715 OTD
No trade-in, and I paid with a personal check. Low pressure picking up the car in Auburn (just a quick mention of extended warranties and extra security system). Vehicle had 150 miles (distance to bay area) and was in perfect condition.
We leased it, and this was the first time ever that we picked up a car that already had actual plates ready and attached to the car. Every other car I have ever purchased or leased over the years, and there have been many, has always had the temporary paper license on it, and the plates came later, like several weeks.
Is this unusual, and something to question? The car did come from another dealer other than who we purchased from. My most pessimistic instinct has me thinking this might have been a car that was immediately returned by somebody? It had 70 miles on it when we took delivery. Thanks for any insight
A month ago the CarsDirect price was 26,261. Most internet mgr quotes ranged between 26,800-26,900 for about a $600 difference. Edmunds TMV was higher but I can't remember whether it was like 27,500 or full list.
I paid 26,890 + TTL but the price included Fogs, mirror, muds, net, tray and wheel locks. Most internet mgrs wanted @ $27,500-27,700 with the above options + TTL.
Today CarsDirect's price is 26,891 which supposedly includes a CarsDirect discount of $500, suggesting that their regular price is now 27,391. Edmunds TMV is 27,653 in my zip. These are prices without options.
Comments or recent experience?
In this age of internet shoppers the documentation fee is kind of "guaranteed" profit for them that can go on their bottom line. They do have to pay people to prep the cars, process the title/tag work, and they have to pay for nice pretty showrooms. i'm sure there is holdback but the dealer only profits from that if the car is sold quickly. Car dealerships are businesses and they are in it to make money just like whatever company you or I work for are in their business to make money or we wouldn't have jobs.
Paid $20,700 + TTL (MSRP $24,910, Invoice $22,461). Straight cash deal w/ no trade-in or options added.
Where did you get it? How did the negotiations go? Details, details...
Congrats in any case for picking up a new Accord. You will love it.
How many miles were on the car? Was it used as a demo? I paid exactly $2,000 more and thought my deal was better than average ($238 over invoice 10 weeks ago) but your deal is a record-breaker on this site if the car wasn't a demo.
What's especially odd is that your car was shipped early because transportation is $460 instead of $490 on your MSRP, so your car has been in the dealer's inventory for a fairly long time. If so, the holdback "earned" by the dealer is probably less than on a car that was just added to inventory (search Edmunds site for info on holdbacks).
Anyway, you'll REALLY like the car.....Richard
I'm posting this for my sister, who is buying a Civic to replace the one totaled last week by an "inattentive" driver -- yes, that's what he was ticketed for, but I digress.
I know - there is a Civic board, but it seems like a large number of people here are in the Seattle area.
Any comments, good, bad, indifferent about Klein Honda in Everett? It's closest to her...
Thanks!
Please post your results. Thanks.
Somehow I don't think the dealer threw in leather interior on this deal...
First of all, the car was not a demo, and had only 3 miles when I bought it (5 miles when I picked it up). Based on the VIN in th 14k range, the car probably is the last batch of shipment that still have the lower destination charge (which was changed on all cars build after 10/3).
Was previously looking for a 2003 leftover on September, while decided to wait a little longer once I saw the price changes and addtion of curtain airbag and XM radio for 2004. Started this round of shopping around more seriously when my current car had some serious problem. Got quote through various channel including Costco, AAA, and Carsdirect.
The lowest quote I have got by the end of month for this model was around $21,800, which is still a awesome deal that probably factored in most dealer holdback. However, during the last week of the month, received another smaller dealer quote of $20,800 (which I believe was a typo of $21,800??). Since the previous lowest dealer said bring in any deal I had and he will beat it by $100, and he seemed to have the exact car I want in stock, decided to go in to check it out at the end of the month to see if he honor it. To my surprise he agreed to the $100 lower right on the spot, even was kind regret about it when he did the final number..:) So off I go with the sweet deal of 4200+ under MSRP for a 2004 Accord, plus $45 doc fee, $459 Tag/Registration, $5 tire dispose fee, and 8.25% tax (ouch) in NorCal.
Due to the great deal, was asked not to disclose the detail of dealership (bummer, I know). However, here are the list of dealers I personally would recommend for those who interested in these area as my feedback to the forum...:)
Anderson Honda, Los Gatos Honda, AutoWest Honda, Larry Hopkins Honda, and Honda of Hayward.
We used our credit union's buying service. I thought we did great, especially without the hassles. Man, whispers, what did you do? Walk in with a gun ;-)
One thing, a month ago, I called about 5-10 dealers in NJ after my dealer said he couldn't find the color, and nobody had a Desert Mist EX/V6 with Nav, so I kind of believe him. A month ago, his price quote of $600 over invoice was $400 less than anybody else was offering in the area.
The total price for the car will be $26611 + $585 (wood trim and deck lid installed) + $175 Tags & Licence + Tax = $29000.
Car price haggling is annoying but if you know the invoice price and set a maximum amount you'll pay (like $300 over invoice which you should be able to get easily now) then walk out if the dealer won't agree to that.
Some of the deals posted here lately have been below invoice--a couple so far under invoice that I don't know if they're believable.
If you set a maximum price for yourself and let the dealer know you've done your homework, you'll get a decent deal--there are plenty of new Accords available and if you start to walk out of the showroom, watch the salesman run after you with a better deal........Richard
Go to hondacars.com and enter your zipcode under "Locate Dealers". The 5 closest will be displayed, generally with a link to their website. Go to each website and send them an email stating the exact vehicle you plan to buy, that you expect to pay invoice or less, and to send you their best offer. This is so much more efficient than wasting everybody's time with high quotes. If you do not get the price you want, find the next 5 closest dealers and send them the same email. You can contact every dealer within 100 miles of you within the next hour. I don't know where in California you live, but if you live in a remote area, you may want to try a more price competitive region (such as the bay area). Local dealers will probably match your lowest quote if they know you are on your way to San Francisco to buy the car.
Car manufacturers are pushing inventory to the dealer network because they need to use factory capacity.
I'm an advocate of using this oversupply situation to our (consumers) advantage; we just need to play our cards right (knowing market prices of both new and trade-in vehicles, interest rates/beacon scores, declining warranty extension - no need during 3/36 window - and other such offerings, and timing the purchase at month-end). Dealer sales personnel, because it's their daily drill (for consumers, it's probably a once/3 year exercise), can and will maximize profit potential.
"Floorplan," advertising, and other non-TTL/accessory fees are business operating expenses rightfully absorbed by the dealer. That they tack this on is a slick way of getting a deal based on invoice, since the buying public has become invoice-centered.
A car dealer has 3 legs of the revenue stool: new car sales, used car sales and service/parts. When there's new car oversupply (as is the case), we consumers can (and should imo) leverage that fact to obtain best possible prices. We won't always have that chance, because supply/demand can swing around. Besides, dealers still have their other income sources.
I think a lot of people put themselves through a horrible amount of stress in an attempt to pay less for a car than anyone else did.
For these people the horrible thought of paying a few dollars more for the same car than someone else did just terrifies them.
For me, that's not a happy way to go through life, but that's me...we are all different.
As a former born and raised in So. Calif guy, I can only say that is a horrible, cutthroat marketplace. Open the Sunday Times and look at the "screamer" ads...PRICE PRICE PRICE!!!
My suggestion is to ask your family and friends that have recently bought a new Honda for a referral based on their experiences. That's always the best way to have a good experience.
Lastly, don't believe all of the "prices paid" that you see on these boards. I've seen a few that I know are pure fiction.
So, good luck, have fun...it doesn't have to be a miserable experience.
Where in L.A. ?
Born and raised in San Pedro.
My mother also purchased a 1999 Accord LX-V6 coupe with spoiler, alloy wheels, and some other doo-dads for $24.5K OTD (back then the Accords were hto commodities).
I do agree with the other posters, email every single dealer within a reasonable driving distance and they'll either call or email back. Ask for a firm offer and simply state your price for the color/options you want. If they try to fudge, thank them for their time and hang up. Life's too short to have to haggle with dealers while stuck on the 405 ;-)
BTW, I would be driving that 2003 Accord if curtain airbags were available and if the Mazda3 didn't exist (sorry for being slightly OT).
Many times, one of the reasons "regular" salespeople are unwilling to commit to a price over the phone, is because for all they know, you *could* be another car dealer, shopping the competition, you could be a consumer, pitting dealers against one another, etc. If you want a true quote, IMO, either shop the internet sales department, or figure out what you are willing to pay(3-600over invoice seems fair) and walk in and see if you get a yay or nay
Just got a contract faxed to me for $15995, out the door ~$17450 in NYC area dealer. Is this o.k.?
Anyone got the same 2004 car yet? and what prices did you guys pay?
Thanks.
Just be careful on your trade-in. Try to negotiate its value separately from the new car so you can see exactly what's being offered on each. If you don't like the trade-in value, you could always try to sell it yourself. That's what I did and got 40% more for my 1994 Integra than the best dealer offer. Plus, it sure made it easier to negotiate with many dealers when no trade-in was involved.
As far as Lanier ... if I remember correctly, the prices they quoted me via e-mail and on the phone didn't include their "fees" which added up to around $800, and one of the "fees" was the old "VIN etching" scam. That turned me off. To level the playing field, just make sure you get an out-the-door price from all dealers (and don't include TTL if you're looking out of state as well).
The pre-tax, etc. price was $20,700--about $1760 UNDER invoice. That makes no sense to me because the maximum holdback on a $25K car @ 3% is only $750. How could the dealer make anything on a sale at that price as there was no trade-in to complicate matters.
Does Honda offer some end of month incentive that encourages below cost sales to reach a certain sales level? I just don't understand why any dealer would sell that car so cheaply......Richard
I do know they have lots of EX inventory, so you should be able to get a pretty good deal.
The problem with car-buying is the 4-square and other negotiation tactics of dealerships that have the effect of price-gouging.
As I've previously posted, compared to the final purchase price on my 03 EX-L, the dealer's first offer was $9,600 over invoice (in terms of monthly payment x 60 mos).
The "horrible thought of paying a few dollars more for the same car than someone else did just terrifies..." buyers, per your post #3042, is - I'm afraid - well founded.
On the unusually low prices posted here, I'm living proof of the $900 sub-invoice price I got for another car, an 03 EX-v6 coupe in March 03. As to why others would post fictitious prices, the logic escapes me except for individuals badly wanting to level the playing field. If that's the case, maybe car dealers should take it as a sign to change their approach.
I paid 22591.00 including destination and I thought that was an amazing deal.
I did my homework-went to about 7 dealers on the I-95 route in Fairfield and New Haven County, ended up buing from Courtney Honda in Milford CT.
All of the dealers I went were all in the 22-23 thousand price range for that vehicle, mention 21k they would not let you in their doors.
If it is true- Good Job.