Are you a current Michigan-based car shopper? A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/2 for details.
Joystick? Have you used iDrive? It's pretty darn simple. North-South-East-West controls the major functions, angles control the less frequently accessed items (roadside assistance, etc). In five years it'll be the rage in every luxury car.
I purposely didn't include the TL/CL twins in my look at sports-luxury cars. They're not up to the task. Bland styling inside and out, cheap interior materials, and FWD along with Honda plainness in driving manners makes them more competitors to the Altima and Maxima than G35/3 series fighters.
Volvo's S40 is the 3 series/G35 competitor. The 60 and 80 are the big boys. And Saab and Lincoln are American cars...not even worth the time.
The FWD S60 T5 is selling for $36k that puts it right here with the A4,3er, and G. Of course it has no rear leg room, it is a turbo, and it's a Volvo. Three big negatives IMO. I test drove one and it was very comfortable and the performance once the turbo spools up is awesome, but off the line, slooowww. Can you say torque steer?
There have been many great comments here regarding the competition for the G35. May I also point out the annoying quality of BMW aluminum wheels turning black with brake dust after a few days. When is BMW going to fix this problem?
It is my opinion that Japanese do make the finest quality cars that money can by. And JD Powers normally ranks Lexus and Infiniti in the top two positions for initial quality surveys. On paper it looks like the Infinity will simply lack the snob appeal, the pedigree, breeding of the BMW. There will probably be no contest in quality. I know of many people who have many quality issues with their Beemers.
I think of the new G35 as a BMW 5 series with more feature content for $10,000 to $15,000 less than the 5. As a matter of fact the base G35 is only $27,000 with destination and it has all the features that I want. Plus a 60,000 bumper to bumper warranty and a longer powertrain warranty. IMHO the styling of the G35 is very attractive with the stacked headlights and raised fenders. And distintive with the unique tail lights.
Has anyone on this board had experience with Infiniti service? Does anyone have a picture of the new G35 coupe and know of its feature content? I know someone who just ordered a new 350 Z for MSRP.
I was just informed that the delivery date for my unit has been pushed back to May and that it effects all units that have been ordered with the Sport Tuned Suspension.
Those of you that have ordered with a STS, please check with your dealer to determine if I'm getting the run-around or if this is actually true.
Initially, I was told my unit was in the 1st allotment. Now May. I just started looking for another car!
I just called my dealer after seeing dpepper's post. I placed a deposit on a STS-equipped model on 1/14 and have been told all along that the car would arrive in April. The salesman just told me that that has not changed - still looking at an April delivery date. I don't know if this salesman knows what he is talking about or not. When did you pre-order yours?
The E-class is being redesigned. Spy photos are already out there, and it looks better.
I really think the G35's main draw is the RWD. That's why I'd compare it to the BMW 3 and 5, the Benz C320 (240 isn't powerful enough to be truly sporty), and maybe the A4 Quattro.
"May I also point out the annoying quality of BMW aluminum wheels turning black with brake dust after a few days. When is BMW going to fix this problem?"
I had no idea brakes working properly was a problem.
I have a 2000 BMW 323i and the brakes are awesome. They use asbestos on the pads and that is partly to blame for the wheels getting dirty fast. I use EZ-1 wheel cleaner and it takes it right off. I'm considering the G35 only b/c of the powerful engine. I have the auto/manual right now and although quick I may prefer some more uumph off the line. I love my Bimmer but have had thermostat problems(twice replaced), center cluster replaced, and the aligment was off and took several tries to get it correctly tuned to where I felt I was driving a German car. All under warranty but I'm over that now and may want to change at the end of the year. It will be hard for teh G35 to win me over but I'm going to give it a shot. I know the engine will. But then again so would a 330i manual.
don't disregard the Lincoln LS just because it is American made. Many have made that mistake to their own chagrin. I own an '01 V6 Manual with a "measly" 210 HP however, I am totally satisfied with the car and will gladly put it up against anything out there, including the vaunted BMWs, short of the M. It is larger than a 5 series but is priced like a 3 series. I regularly take the 35MPH off ramp at 60 and the tires are no where close to squealing (I know from my SCCA runs). AND the '03 purportedly has a power increase and some restyling. IMHO, at the moment it is a toss up between the Lincoln LS and the Infiniti G35. I will await the testing of production models before deciding which is better. IF the LS has anywhere near the HP/torque then I will be a repeat customer.
BTW, the participation by Lincoln management, engineers and marketing people on the Edmunds Lincoln LS board is invaluable. What other manufacturer offers access to its personnel? NONE! Lincoln cares! And that is a very valuable commodity.
The biggest problem I have with the Lincoln LS is my tired face muscles. Constant smiling while driving can be a problem, but one well worth experiencing. You really should try it before writing it off.
Since I haven't looked at the current depreciation I cannot refute your post. I can only say that I am totally satisfied with the LS I own and would not consider trading it unless there is SIGNIFICANT improvement; which according to those who saw the '03 there is! Glad to be an American where we have competition.
Please don't get me wrong, I am really interested in the G35. I just am curious if its "numbers" will beat/match the '03 Lincoln LS, especially in real world driving. If not . . .
Potential buyers need to adequately broaden their horizons. There is a huge used car market that competes with new cars, too. If you want to make comparisons really interesting, you should factor in used cars. A new loaded G35 can compete in similar price range to some great used cars: GS300/400, LS400, E Class, 5 Series, etc.
For example, for about $35-40K you can buy a very nice Certified Pre-Owned (CPO) BMW 540i 6-speed. I looked at what was out there late last year and what will be available thru remainder of 2002 MY. Noticed I could buy some really nice used BMWs with good warranties. That is what I ended up doing. And I got 3.9 percent financing from BMW Financial. Guessing Infiniti is not going to offer subsidized interest rates on the newly introduced G35. And who knows when (if?) there will be a 6-speed G35.
As for manufacturers' interacting with potential and current owners, keep in mind the various owners' clubs. Take BMW. The BMW Car Club of America runs a very large, first-rate operation. Parts discounts. Events. Great monthly magazine with fantastic technical Q&A section. BMW works closely with their owners' clubs. Put the info in the owner's manuals. They even give you rebates based on being a BMW CCA member. Does Lexus, Infiniti, Cadillac, or Lincoln have anything like this? Or that has been around 30 years?
I dunno. If someone is interested in a G35, take me for instance, then nothing Lexus offers can compare. They don't make a performance oriented sport sedan. They just make tanks. While the 540 is a gorgeous car, a used bimmer is quite possibly the scariest thing in the world after a used Fiat. Bimmers are great when you've got the warranty. After that...yikes!
I do not know what the interaction is between BMW officials and the "BMW Car Club of America." I do know, as do you, that Lincoln personnel post their knowledge for EVERYONE to see here at Edmunds, not just a select few. The Lincoln LS has not been around for 30 tears so I don't see where that is an important factor. As you said on the Cadillac CTS board, lets consider what is happening NOW rather than past glories. I haven't seen any upper level BMW people posting here. Perhaps you could relieve my ignorance by providing an example where they have? And I, too, am looking for a NEW car and not a USED one, regardless of how good an extended warrantee I can get. BMWs have a reputation for costly repairs. I do not know of a warrantee that extends until a vehicles "dies" as that is what I do, keep a car until there is nothing left. So for me, a used car is verbotten. I am not recommending that others should follow my example, though many do just that, it's just my way.
Does anyone know if the audio and cruise controls on lighted on the G35's steering wheel. This is a pet peeve of mine if they are not. Also, do the headrests tilt forward or do they just go up and down. These 2 little things may seem insignificant but should be expected on a luxury car.
blueguydotcom... A G35 without a manual transmission doesn't do anything for me, nor is it special in any truly meaningful way. Compares to a lot of cars with automatics: IS300, 330i, LS6/8, CTS. With that said, I certainly would consider comparing a loaded new G35 automatic versus a good used Lexus GS300/400 or LS400 automatic. The GS300/400 is a very nice platform. Prefer its looks to G35. Great build quality and interior materials. And I like I-6 engine or V-8 over V-6.
keyrow... A few people from one company posting on one web site for a year or so hardly says a lot about a manufacturer's participation. That says more about those people being dedicated car guys and good corporate ambassadors. But when they are on Edwards they often clearly say they are representing themselves and not the manufacturer. A meaningful level of participation can only occur over the long haul and across the entire line, not just one car. Companies like MB and BMW have spent decades working with their owners and owners' clubs worldwide. Guessin' Chevy does things for Corvette and Impala clubs as Ford does with T-bird and Mustang clubs. But does Ford do much for Pinto, Merkur, Tempo, or Continental? Chevy for Chevette, Celebrity, Malibu, or Caprice? What does Buick do? BMW CCA covers ALL their cars, new, recently discontinued, and vintage. You should check out BMW's in-house corporate publication as well as BMW CCA's Roundel. Shows a long-term dedication and commitment earned over a long time and across all their models (and now makes, with Mini and RR added).
I WANT all companies to do these things, esp. if they have sporting aspirations and want to develop a long-term relationship with their buyers. Hook 'em with a new or used C-class or 3 Series and then hold onto 'em with E/5, M/X, S/7, and finally AMG/M.
But Infiniti will have its work cut out for itself. It needs to take the time and dedicate the personnel and financial resources that show it is truly committed to its potential and actual buyers on more than just a one-time sale basis. Making a committed relationship is tough, but as MB and BMW have shown, it can be done. First it takes market focus and corporate commitment from top down.
Thanks for the reply. I ordered the beginning of Jan. In the mean time, I've chatted with others that have ordered a unit with STS and they all have April/May delivery dates.
At least we will have plenty of reviews by the time we receive ours.
I sat in a CTS at the SD auto show. It makes a Pontiac (Darth Vader's bathroom) seem classy, IMHO. If that was Caddy's best shot, odds are good they'll never be able to tussle with the big boys. Too much plastic and way too large of an unfriendly dash. Easily the worst car I've sat in since I had the misfortune of getting into a friend's Tercel. I can't see the G having to worry about the CTS as it's just another Catera and it'll probably sport Catera sales numbers too. But it's American, so we can't expect much.
IMO, there's no such thing as a good LS400/430 or GS300/400. They may run well but there's nothing remotely fun or attractive about either car, for my tastes. Typical Toyota.
blueguydotcom... Think you're being too hard on the Lexus GS and LS platforms. The GS is quite a nice car. There used to be a 5-speed manual version of the GS300. On the former GS platform before the redesign. Thinking it was killed off about 3 or 4 years ago?
Fact G35 won't have manual at introduction really leaves bad taste for me. Who knows when it will come out? Heck, I'd rather have a loaded Nissan Maxima SE 6-speed with helical limited slip differential (LSD) than an automatic G35. Afraid most Infiniti dealers won't even order G35 manual.
"... They could sell Vettes for $10k and I still wouldn't touch one."
And make mine a silver hatchback, a red convertible,... oh, and of course a black Z06. Or, I guess I could get a 3-series... oops, I forgot, $30K might not be enough. Oh, well which Vette should I go Bimmer hunting in today... lol.
Steering Wheel Control do not appear to be illuminated at night. Check out the pictures of the steering wheel from my previous post and the lettering appear to be a decal, but I did not test drive at night.
You can give me that Intrepid. I'm sure I could sell it for something. Maybe trade it for a bag of peanuts. ;-)
I don't see how the age of a club, BMW or any, helps you much if you're driving a new car with completely different technology from any 30 year old car. How do torque specifications for a 2002 or a Bavaria help a new 3 series owner?
What counts in a club is the number of members, or more specifically the number of people who own the same car you do and have knowledge to share, and then how that knowledge is organized.
You want to see a great club? Check out Miata.net. It's only 12 years old or so, but there are half a million Miatas on the road, and the site is organized quite well, with every resource you could ever want. Original brochures from every year, group buys from vendors, instructions for all kinds of mods with photos, detailed autocross tips, etc.
The instructions they had for adjusting my timing was better than any shop manual. To me, that's what makes a club useful. Not its age.
i first spoke to our dealer in january and was quoted an april delivery for a build unit. actually ordered, with sts, in first week of feb and was told mid-may for delivery (unless i took a ready-built inbound, which i could have in march/april). i confirmed this with the dealer 2 days ago. seems like a rolling 10-12 week calendar.
have either of your received email from infiniti yet?
"A few people from one company posting on one web site for a year or so hardly says a lot about a manufacturer's participation." I couldn't disagree more. Their commitment is very strong. And even BMW BEGAN at some point. Is it your assertion that "In the beginning" BMW's commitment was insincere? Also, if you had taken the opportunity to attend any of the "Mania" events when you owned one you would understand just how committed they are: not only to producing the finest sport sedan possible (damn bean counters!) but to customer service as well. What other manufacturer has a VP that one can email and he will find and set up a test drive for the exact vehicle you are looking for? When has any Bimmer rep done that?
And if Ford/Chevy/Dodge ONLY sold cars priced over $30K they could easily have customer involvement up the wazoo as well. Home grown manufacturers just do not have the profits built in to their sales the way that the Teutonics do. At their prices (sales and maintenance) they ought to do something to relieve their guilt ridden souls. But then again, it has been said that the smallest book ever written is titled "European Business Morality" so perhaps they do not feel anything at all.
The Subaru Crew has a rep from SoA, and she's had our events catered for us, gotten us free passes to Auto Shows with VIP tours and freebies, and helps make sure any issues than come up are dealt with due diligence. Red carpet service, and people notice.
If you now go to the official Infiniti USA website and tried to configure a G3, you will notice that there is a small disclaimer for the STS option that says the it has limited availability.
keyrow... I'm talking long-term manufacturer's worldwide commitment toward building a relationship with potential and actual buyers. Cadillac, Lincoln, Lexus, and Infiniti just haven't done much of that. Glad to see they might be starting. And hoping they follow through in a meaningful way. Glad Cadillac is selling CTS in Europe. But only time will tell. The relationship between manufacturers and the various clubs for their marque(s) and various makes is a telling indicator. MB and BMW have made the commitment. Isn't that called walking the talk? Just talk won't cut it.
What did Ford end up doing for the Merkur marque? How many Ford makes have good clubs and those clubs get significant support from Ford? Besides T-bird and Mustang? For how long? Is there even an overall Ford club tied to the make but not a particular model? The Ford CCA?
As for Infiniti, what did they do for the old M30? Former and current G20? Former J30? Current or former Q45? Are there any Infiniti clubs? Does Infiniti support? Does Infiniti even care? Will they do anything for G35? Only time will tell.
I'll believe Cadillac, Lincoln, Lexus, and Infiniti are serious about cars when they build serious cars. Where are the very powerful high performance manual transmission versions? With LSD? And other performance goodies? Where are their AMG or M Series cars? When they build cars that can compete with an M5 then I might agree with you. Till then, their engineers can be my personal flunkies and I still wouldn't care!
bobbyknight... You're likely right. I don't study Lexus much. Always have like the styling of GS, but mainly the initial platform. I have never sat in one or tried to buy one. But it always has been a nice luxury sedan. Probably had the old SC300 coupe on brain. That one's former platform had manual tranny option for some of the 1990s.
Anyone know what that little nook is on the passenger side of the console. It is not a handle, and it will not hold anything. Just curious if anyone knows.
Yesterday I went to the Infiniti dealer in Wilmington DE and picked up a small silver-covered brochure called "Future Think". It has some nice looking exterir pictures of the G35, much better than the one in all their print ads. That print ad is so very bland. Infiniti ads are either goofy or bland, no charisma.
The dealer also told me they will get their first shipment of production model in two weeks. I wonder if he really knew what he was talking about.
Here is my vote for what that little nook is on the passenger side of the console. Seeing that it is not big enough for maps, purses, day planners, garage door openers, CD or casette cases, it must be an Infiniti option to balance out the interior harmonics. The way I figure, after a couple of hours the driver will start complaining about his/her right shin being irritated by the now infamous cigarette lighter bulge. As soon as the driver starts whining, the passenger will chime in with "What are you griping about? My left shin is killing me!" So there you have it, the interior harmonics will be balanced out. Most likely the nook only comes with the Bose radio package. You know how good Bose is about interior harmonics. ;-)
I've poured over every pic of the G35, and seen it in person twice (up close). I don't understand what the "bulge" thing is all about. The griping about the little thing on the left side seems odd too. I've never touched either my center console or interior wall panels with any part of my lower anatomy. Oddly, my feet are on or darn near the three pedals that operate the car.
So are you 5'4" to 5'9" and weigh 140-165? Just curious because numerous people on here have confirmed the "bulge" and it's interference yet you say it's not a bother, it has to be a body type thing.
No, I have not received an e-mail from Infiniti. I did receive a letter yesterday thanking me for my pre-order, but it gave no other info. I also was told that I would receive "gifts" from Infiniti, but have received nothing so far.
Infiniti of Mission Viejo says they will get their first shipment in on March 11th however no test drives for at least one week after that. Seems like they are really trying to control how the opinions are formed about this vehicle.
Or maybe all those cars are spoken for? And no matter what salesguy says no to test drives, the sales manager will eventually allow any serious buyer to drive it. They're trying to keep joyriders from showing up and adding miles to the cars. Subaru dealers did the same thing with WRXs. You had to give many dealers all your stats to test one.
One local Texas dealer recently advised that they have 3 due in February with 69 to follow. As of 2 weeks ago, they were all available. I even understand that they will sell for significantly under MSRP.
jlan: I really hope what this dealer says is true. That is really good news! Of course there is probably a lot of competition down in Texas. Here in KC there is only one dealer and they don't like to deal much.
Or come to So Cal - 7 Infiniti dealerships within an hour and 15 minutes of my home. Really helps the leverage when it comes time to put the deal together.
Comments
I purposely didn't include the TL/CL twins in my look at sports-luxury cars. They're not up to the task. Bland styling inside and out, cheap interior materials, and FWD along with Honda plainness in driving manners makes them more competitors to the Altima and Maxima than G35/3 series fighters.
Volvo's S40 is the 3 series/G35 competitor. The 60 and 80 are the big boys. And Saab and Lincoln are American cars...not even worth the time.
I test drove one and it was very comfortable and the performance once the turbo spools up is awesome, but off the line, slooowww. Can you say torque steer?
It is my opinion that Japanese do make the finest quality cars that money can by. And JD Powers normally ranks Lexus and Infiniti in the top two positions for initial quality surveys. On paper it looks like the Infinity will simply lack the snob appeal, the pedigree, breeding of the BMW. There will probably be no contest in quality. I know of many people who have many quality issues with their Beemers.
I think of the new G35 as a BMW 5 series with more feature content for $10,000 to $15,000 less than the 5. As a matter of fact the base G35 is only $27,000 with destination and it has all the features that I want. Plus a 60,000 bumper to bumper warranty and a longer powertrain warranty. IMHO the styling of the G35 is very attractive with the stacked headlights and raised fenders. And distintive with the unique tail lights.
Has anyone on this board had experience with Infiniti service? Does anyone have a picture of the new G35 coupe and know of its feature content? I know someone who just ordered a new 350 Z for MSRP.
Have a great day.
I was just informed that the delivery date for my unit has been pushed back to May and that it effects all units that have been ordered with the Sport Tuned Suspension.
Those of you that have ordered with a STS, please check with your dealer to determine if I'm getting the run-around or if this is actually true.
Initially, I was told my unit was in the 1st allotment. Now May. I just started looking for another car!
I really think the G35's main draw is the RWD. That's why I'd compare it to the BMW 3 and 5, the Benz C320 (240 isn't powerful enough to be truly sporty), and maybe the A4 Quattro.
-juice
I had no idea brakes working properly was a problem.
BTW, the participation by Lincoln management, engineers and marketing people on the Edmunds Lincoln LS board is invaluable. What other manufacturer offers access to its personnel? NONE! Lincoln cares! And that is a very valuable commodity.
If it's from an American company, I just can't see buying it. Personal preference. They could sell Vettes for $10k and I still wouldn't touch one.
Sorry for the OT post.
Please don't get me wrong, I am really interested in the G35. I just am curious if its "numbers" will beat/match the '03 Lincoln LS, especially in real world driving. If not . . .
For example, for about $35-40K you can buy a very nice Certified Pre-Owned (CPO) BMW 540i 6-speed. I looked at what was out there late last year and what will be available thru remainder of 2002 MY. Noticed I could buy some really nice used BMWs with good warranties. That is what I ended up doing. And I got 3.9 percent financing from BMW Financial. Guessing Infiniti is not going to offer subsidized interest rates on the newly introduced G35. And who knows when (if?) there will be a 6-speed G35.
As for manufacturers' interacting with potential and current owners, keep in mind the various owners' clubs. Take BMW. The BMW Car Club of America runs a very large, first-rate operation. Parts discounts. Events. Great monthly magazine with fantastic technical Q&A section. BMW works closely with their owners' clubs. Put the info in the owner's manuals. They even give you rebates based on being a BMW CCA member. Does Lexus, Infiniti, Cadillac, or Lincoln have anything like this? Or that has been around 30 years?
http://www.picturetrail.com
Visit Albums: njbpics
Album: 2002 G35
keyrow... A few people from one company posting on one web site for a year or so hardly says a lot about a manufacturer's participation. That says more about those people being dedicated car guys and good corporate ambassadors. But when they are on Edwards they often clearly say they are representing themselves and not the manufacturer. A meaningful level of participation can only occur over the long haul and across the entire line, not just one car. Companies like MB and BMW have spent decades working with their owners and owners' clubs worldwide. Guessin' Chevy does things for Corvette and Impala clubs as Ford does with T-bird and Mustang clubs. But does Ford do much for Pinto, Merkur, Tempo, or Continental? Chevy for Chevette, Celebrity, Malibu, or Caprice? What does Buick do? BMW CCA covers ALL their cars, new, recently discontinued, and vintage. You should check out BMW's in-house corporate publication as well as BMW CCA's Roundel. Shows a long-term dedication and commitment earned over a long time and across all their models (and now makes, with Mini and RR added).
I WANT all companies to do these things, esp. if they have sporting aspirations and want to develop a long-term relationship with their buyers. Hook 'em with a new or used C-class or 3 Series and then hold onto 'em with E/5, M/X, S/7, and finally AMG/M.
But Infiniti will have its work cut out for itself. It needs to take the time and dedicate the personnel and financial resources that show it is truly committed to its potential and actual buyers on more than just a one-time sale basis. Making a committed relationship is tough, but as MB and BMW have shown, it can be done. First it takes market focus and corporate commitment from top down.
At least we will have plenty of reviews by the time we receive ours.
IMO, there's no such thing as a good LS400/430 or GS300/400. They may run well but there's nothing remotely fun or attractive about either car, for my tastes. Typical Toyota.
Fact G35 won't have manual at introduction really leaves bad taste for me. Who knows when it will come out? Heck, I'd rather have a loaded Nissan Maxima SE 6-speed with helical limited slip differential (LSD) than an automatic G35. Afraid most Infiniti dealers won't even order G35 manual.
And make mine a silver hatchback, a red convertible,... oh, and of course a black Z06. Or, I guess I could get a 3-series... oops, I forgot, $30K might not be enough. Oh, well which Vette should I go Bimmer hunting in today... lol.
I don't see how the age of a club, BMW or any, helps you much if you're driving a new car with completely different technology from any 30 year old car. How do torque specifications for a 2002 or a Bavaria help a new 3 series owner?
What counts in a club is the number of members, or more specifically the number of people who own the same car you do and have knowledge to share, and then how that knowledge is organized.
You want to see a great club? Check out Miata.net. It's only 12 years old or so, but there are half a million Miatas on the road, and the site is organized quite well, with every resource you could ever want. Original brochures from every year, group buys from vendors, instructions for all kinds of mods with photos, detailed autocross tips, etc.
The instructions they had for adjusting my timing was better than any shop manual. To me, that's what makes a club useful. Not its age.
-juice
have either of your received email from infiniti yet?
And if Ford/Chevy/Dodge ONLY sold cars priced over $30K they could easily have customer involvement up the wazoo as well. Home grown manufacturers just do not have the profits built in to their sales the way that the Teutonics do. At their prices (sales and maintenance) they ought to do something to relieve their guilt ridden souls. But then again, it has been said that the smallest book ever written is titled "European Business Morality" so perhaps they do not feel anything at all.
-juice
What did Ford end up doing for the Merkur marque? How many Ford makes have good clubs and those clubs get significant support from Ford? Besides T-bird and Mustang? For how long? Is there even an overall Ford club tied to the make but not a particular model? The Ford CCA?
As for Infiniti, what did they do for the old M30? Former and current G20? Former J30? Current or former Q45? Are there any Infiniti clubs? Does Infiniti support? Does Infiniti even care? Will they do anything for G35? Only time will tell.
I'll believe Cadillac, Lincoln, Lexus, and Infiniti are serious about cars when they build serious cars. Where are the very powerful high performance manual transmission versions? With LSD? And other performance goodies? Where are their AMG or M Series cars? When they build cars that can compete with an M5 then I might agree with you. Till then, their engineers can be my personal flunkies and I still wouldn't care!
bobbyknight... You're likely right. I don't study Lexus much. Always have like the styling of GS, but mainly the initial platform. I have never sat in one or tried to buy one. But it always has been a nice luxury sedan. Probably had the old SC300 coupe on brain. That one's former platform had manual tranny option for some of the 1990s.
The dealer also told me they will get their first shipment of production model in two weeks. I wonder if he really knew what he was talking about.
Just curious because numerous people on here have confirmed the "bulge" and it's interference yet you say it's not a bother, it has to be a body type thing.
I'm not huge or small, just sorta average and a car like the G35 feels cavernous to me. Wait, maybe I am small then.