Well, you have the magazine I don't so you would know better than I. The CVT was just a guess on my part.
The fall in rating would not detract me from buying though. I know Saturn will take care of me and that as time goes on the VUE will get better and better just like any other model over time.
Dindak - Sorry, it dawned on me, after asking the question, that CR does publish specific categories on their website. I just needed to dig a little further.
Vuefor2 - Thanks, but I'm pretty well set with my '99 CR-V. Good to know your VUE is running well.
Being a long time owner of Honda cars and happy I am intrigued by the Honda engine in the VUE. My 02 CRV needs more ponies for freeway merging but most SUVs with V6 engines added so much weight they are not quick.Is this new Saturn the answer or will it be the dog that the Sterling became after they merged Japanese and British cars?
The VUE with the Chevy V6 was already pretty quick. I expect in part because of the close ratio gearing that is possible with the 5 speed automatic. During my test drive, I had to floor it to really make it move, but that's a throttle tip in issue, not an engine or transmission failing. I assume the throttle will have been adjusted for use with the new engine.
In short, I expect it will be plenty quick.
You might also take a look at the Foster turbo if you really want to go for a ride.
hey everybody, this is my first post to this forum. my wife and I are looking for small suv/wagon for her(i'm pushing the wagon). She loves the Saturn, and I almost have to force her to go the Honda dealership. anyway, we test drove a 2004 VUE V-6 AWD. My first reaction to the 250 hp V-6 was mild, during initial acceleration, but once my wife hit the gas and rpm's headed north of 4500, WOW! This vehicle should have no trouble whatsoever in freeway merging. we'll have to drive the Honda and the Forester XT for comparison... If anyone has a take on reliability of these three (especially now the Saturn has HONDA motor) I'd love to hear it. take care,
Hi gang, As with some others, the only reason I started to look at the Vue was because of the Honda V-6 it currently offers. Otherwise on paper the Honda pretty much wins out as far as leg room, space, etc....
If the CRV were to have a V-6 then there would be no question.....we'd purchase it. We drove the CRV a few months ago but found it to be pretty noisy inside...road noise and such.. I guess we're going to check into it again as well as check into the Vue. We've not owned a Honda before and have been happy with our other vehicles, however it is hard to ignore the reliability ratings and resale values the Hondas carry. Cheers. Dave
The V6 VUE with 240 HP is going to feel a lot faster than the V4 CR-V with 160 HP, since the vehicles are of similar weight and size. This will be especially true while accelerating at lower RPMs.
The difference is in mileage. The CR-V will get better in town mileage, but about the same or maybe even slightly lower highway mileage.
The big difference in the two vehicles is in design and build quality. It's a question of which design you like and your personal confidence level in Saturn engineering and service.
Personally I thought it was pretty weak. But you have to take into consideration I like jack-rabbit take-offs. I don't burn out or anything like that, I just like to get up to speed pretty quickly. I didn't drive it anywhere over 50mph or so, so can't say about anything else. I just don't like to have to "push" the vehicle to take off like I want. Also, my wife hated the interior. (cloth) On the other hand, either the CRV or Vue would have been nice around here today as most places are flooding.... Oh well...
If we're talking build quality, then I'll say again that the only reason I even started looking at the Vue was because of the Honda V-6.
We drove an Escape the other day (sister-in-law's) which has 30k miles on it. They live wayyy out in the boonies on a ranch with tons of rough roads. There were so many rattles and squeaks in that thing it drove me nuts. (but that's not a far trip.. :-)
We just got back from a short vacation. Whilst out we drove the new Vue with the V-6. Talk about incredible acceleration!!! All I can say is WoW....when punched it would suck you right back into the seats. Boy was it great. Just blew me away.
Other things we noticed. There is no rear armrest/console. Our daughter uses that like crazy.
The back glass doesn't lift independently from the tailgate. That really bugs my wife.
I loved the Honda V-6 in it.
The interior is pretty cheap. Parts don't have a fit-n-finish feel, more like plastic not really fitting correctly. Sigh. I suppose we'll just keep looking around. Maybe back at the Xterra, though that was pretty poor in the power department.
After looking at both again, the exterior of the Vue has much more character and excitement. The CRV is just too boring looking for our tastes.
I don't find the CR-V boring at all. But my decision was more based on research and talking to people who own Honda, Toyotas, Saturns, etc.
Here is something that might help in decision making: CR has published their latest reliability rankings on their web page (restricted to subscribers):
This is my first posting here. But I have spent a lot of time as one other person put it, lurking. I have found these discussion forums very helpful. As much as I like the vehicle, they helped me rule out a Pacifica due to all the teething problems it seems to be having. I was going to go for a program car, but not now. I have read basically all of the VUE related discussions. They helped me make sense out of the silly CR downgrading of the 2004 Vue rating.
Anyway, on to my Saturn question. I have also been eyeing the Redline Vue. I like the wheels it comes with, but the low profile tires concern me. I live and work the Kansas City, Missouri area and our roads this year are so bad, well you might as well be off-roading. We just bought a program 2003 L200 for my daughter and I have replaced 2 rims on it due to unexpected pothole encounters (the second was a pothole my wife found hiding under a large puddle in the rain). The L200 does not even have what I would consider low profile tires on it, I just checked and they are 65R series. Does anyone have any thoughts or experience on 50 series tires in a pothole-infested area? I don't want to think about replacing one of those beautiful 18" wheels.
Other than that, I think the 1" drop, suspension and steering tuning along with the 250HP would make that vehicle a blast to drive (I have not taken a test drive yet - no time, have not been really ready to buy yet, etc). The body work really sets it off. I continue to be amazed at the lack of marketing effort for cars like this. Same with the Pacifica. They seem to think they will sell themselves, but most people don't even know about them. I think Saturn is really missing the boat by not running the Redline VUE up the flagpole. It would run off and leave a lot of vehicles in the dust. Let people know.
You basically lose the benefits of owning an SUV by throwing low profile, wide wheels on it. In the winter ya'd better get snow tires and rims on it in a hurry or you'll be all over the road. If you just need utility and want a great ride, consider the Mazda6 5-door and Sport Wagon. Or, get a Forester XT.
dennisa: Keep off low profile tires. The lower profile you have the more repairs and new tires you would need ($$$$). None of your new tires will live long - they would be damaged before they will be worn. Why to buy expensive good tires then? I learn that hard way. My son switched to big rims and low profile tires and after that all hell broke loose. I really do not remember how many new tires he got since then - but very MANY!! He is very busy now - the tire shop is his way of life with his rims of choice. I bet we got other way to spend our extra money. IMO it's especially stupid to equip SUV with low profile tires. SUV is not a race track car.
I think Saturn isn't running the redline up the flagpole for fear that Subaru will answer. As much as I appreciate the Honda 3.5 under the hood, the Forester XT will make the Redline look pretty foolish.
As for the low profile tires, I'll add that these are pretty harsh on the suspension, not just the rubber. But, hey, do whatever you think works best for you.
That's what I figured on the 18" rims w/ low profile tires. I expected they would not be as good in the snow either. Just wanted a sanity check. Thanks for the input.
The XT waves a very small flag, maybe closer to a small wagon, which some prefer. The VUE redline on the other flagpole displays a larger SUV kind of between a compact and midsize that others like myself prefer. Safety is probably a match. Towing capibility, probably not (Vue 3,500lbs, XT ?). Sporty appearance, well, it's hard to make the XT look sporty. The redline with 235/50/18's, that sets it feet down and will draw more eyes. Performancewise, school me. As for me, I opted for the '04 ecotec 5 speed. So far it's been real good. The mileage is good 24-27 all around. As for highway,I haven't had a chance to stretch it's legs out yet. People are saying up to 33 mpg. If someone is looking at modifying, GM has a whole lot up it's sleeves for the ecotec. This engine was engineered and designed to be modified. It uses the oil pan as a structural member increasing strength to the lower end. Casting are set up for dry sumping and additional lubrication points. I'm reading the ecotec is currently leading Honda, Acura, Toyota & the rest at the drags. They will soon be breaking into 7.0 sec. They are called the "import slayer" at the strips. Not only that, GM will be offering plans and parts to build the ecotec into a 1000 hp motor. The stock engine is good for over 300hp with a twin turbo. If you want to build a street racing, your money is wasted if not applied to the ecotec. As for either making either look like a fool, I think they both offer a good package for each it's own.
A silver AWD Red Line Vue. It also had the seat comfort package.
The Red Line was pretty fast. It's advertised to do 60 in about 7 seconds, don't see any reason to believe it couldn't do it. It was a lot faster than the Escape I drove last year, about the same as an Aviator and slower than a V8 SRX. The SRX and Aviator are some pretty strong SUV's and there aren't many compacts that can hang with them in acceleration.
The ride is decent, not really smooth but this isn't a boulevardier. If the road's fairly smooth, so is the ride. If road gets a little rough, you'll feel it. It's certainly better than the 330i I drove last summer.
Handling is very good athough this is still a tall vehicle and it does lean a bit in hard corners. I haven't driven a standard VUE, but I have to believe lowering it helps here as will the big tires.
I see some talk about low profile tires. This has 50 series tires, which aren't all that low. It's not like we're riding 30 series here... I wouldn't be worried in the least about dinging the rims.
If someone's going through tires, they probably went to a soft compound or are doing burnouts. Just having low profile tires doesn't automatically mean short tire life. I do believe in going to dedicated snows and street tires (IMO, something like an inexpensive Kumho Ecsta would work very well here) to maximize performance, which means 2 sets of wheels.
They've upgraded the interiors since the last time I sat in a VUE... it's decent now, not the best but not bad either. The leather seats are pretty flat, but comfortable. You'll have to hang on a little when you fly the corners. Seat heaters are nice.
The outside is a sharp looker. IMO, this is now the best looking compact SUV - the wheels and lowering seem to have the visual effect of shrinking it a bit. It looks smaller than it is... open up the back and it's got lots of room.
Well, that's it. Everybody seems to think that the Honda motor in this will run a zillion miles and it's got those plastic panels... old Saturn and even Fiero bodies never seem to deteriorate. If you wanted to could you drive this thing forever?
It looks like both the Vue & Crv did will on the side at 38.5 mph with 3015lb, with the airbags (optional), while the Forester did okay at 31 mph with side airbags (standard).So far they haven't tested the Forester at 38.5. They all did well on the offset frontal. They CRV & Forester held out better structuraly. The old Vue had some airbag issues (the one tested), but the '04s have a revamped dual stage system and seatbelt pretensioners (not yet tested). Most likely, they both will test out the same on the frontal, but the Vue with side airbags will likely have the edge.
2002 - 2004 the Forester gets the segments highest marks in the IIHS (Insurance Institute for Highway Safety) tests, a good rating for all tests. (Good is their highest rating.) The Vue gets a good for frontal and a POOR (their worst rating) for side impacts. It also gets a good for head restraints and a poor for bumpers.
The Forester is a much safer vehicle based upon crash tests alone.
A reporter wants to talk with Saturn Vue owners about any suspension problems they have experienced. Please respond to jfallon@edmunds.com asap no later than Thursday, August 5, 2004 with your daytime contact info.
I was in the market for a new relatively economical SUV to replace my wife's old 2-door with since we have our first on the way. I'm a total automotive nut, but almost never buy new. Unfortunately new vehicles aren't exactly the best financial investment, but figured if we chose well, we’d keep what we decided on for a very long time. I researched and test-drove many SUVs narrowing in on both the Vue Red Line and CR-V SE. As far as these two go:
Saturn VUE - quite honestly wasn't even on the radar screen at the start. Non body-colored bumpers are pretty much a deal breaker for me. Especially on this vehicle, it just leaves all the different angular body panels looking rather disjointed to my eyes. Then I saw a Redline model in one of my monthly car mags. Wow...it's amazing what the addition of body colored bumpers, subtle ground effects and 18" wheels can do. Then add in a 250HP/5sp Honda drivetrain, lowered and retuned suspension, the virtually child/parking lot proof plastic body panels and great safety marks with the side curtain airbags. Top it off with $3750 worth of incentives on remaining '04s and now I'm on red alert. This might actually strike the unlikely compromise between a sports car and a kid-hauler. In fact, I would actually get excited about driving this on the weekends.
The test drive didn't disappoint in the acceleration or handling department absolute bliss. Road and wind noise were higher than expected. On the interior, the rear seat room was good and the fold down grocery holder in the cargo compartment was a thoughtful idea. Unfortunately, the overall interior theme looked and more so FELT hard, brittle and cheap.
Take away the incentives (couldn't find a remaining '04 anywhere), no chance to haggle on the price and factor in questionable resale value and longer-term reliability in everything other than the drivetrain and the vivid picture started to fade. I spend most of my week driving domestic rental cars of all shape and size due to travel. The thought of extending the plasticy interior experience into my weekends just wasn't that attractive. Vastly improve the interior look and feel, lower the price slightly and it’d be sitting in my garage.
Honda CR-V SE – The original and subsequent exterior styling of the CR-V has always looked awkward and quirky to me. But this latest iteration is handsome, coordinated, if not even a bit masculine. The SE specific metallic pewter color with the color matched front and rear fascias is simply fabulous. The perforated leather-clad interior is no slouch either with material, fit, finish and FEEL quality closer to something German than its entry-level econo-price would indicate. The 60/40 rear seats recline, slide forward and back to maximize legroom or storage room and even tumble forward for exceptional cargo capacity in relation to its exterior size. There are creative storage compartments and nooks galore, a removable picnic table and a convenient rear glass only tilt-up feature. You get heated front seats and side view mirrors, a moonroof and a six-disc changer with remote controls in the wheel as bonus. Minor interior snicks for me are the chintzy inside door handles and relatively thick and high doorsills. They may dirty up a few pant legs until one’s entry/exit technique adapts.
The test drive brought to light a teeny turning radius, progressive braking, solid emergency maneuver handling, but a slightly firm ride, which may be off-putting to some. Wind and road noise were decent for the category. Had to wonder what a better set of tires would net. The 160 ponies were surprising smooth and strong but of course couldn’t put on anywhere near the barn burning show the Red Line’s 250 horsies did. The CR-V had no problem getting out of it’s own way or maintaining a 75-80 mph cruising speed though. The engine’s torquey attitude and well-spaced gearing in the 5 sp auto tranny made it feel more V6-like than the frugal I-4 it actually is (22c/27h MPG). Almost nit picking, but weaker vocal cords from the motivation choir wouldn’t disappoint my ears.
Did I mention AWD, front side torso and side curtain airbags, ABS, stability control and a top-notch safety rating from NHTSA. All this for $25,565 MSRP ($23,651 invoice) with all but guaranteed strong resale value and long-term reliability. Now this sounds like the vehicle that is sitting in my garage.
GM has been building cars and engines longer than anyone. They had the first V-6 in fact in the 1961 Buick Specials!
Can anybody explain then WHY they had to go to Honda for their Saturn V-6's??
Honda needed diesels to sell in Europe, GM's Izuzu is one of the bigger diesel engine manufacturers, the deal was that Honda would get Diesels from Izuzu, and GM would get 3.5L V6's from Honda. Now that Honda developed an in-house Diesel, we may not see Satrun VUE with a Honda V6 in the future.
As to why GM chose Honda, and not Toyota or others. Toyota does not have good engine development program, their best engines are made by Yamaha. Their V6's had sludge problems.
A few years ago there was a good deal of concern as to whether or not small companies like Honda could survive in the world of huge-merger-mania. (Now it's more obvious folks were worried about nothing.)
To help address concerns over Honda's go-it-alone approach, they concocted a scheme where they would sell engines to other companies as something of a side business. GM was their first customer. But rather than do a straight purchase deal, the engine swap worked out better for both of them.
If Honda develops a smaller diesel for the Euro markets, they may continue to sell J35s to GM, rather than trade for them. They may yet find other companies interested in their engines. Frankly, I think Hyundai should make an offer for the J30. Hyundai's cars are pretty good, but their V6 engines are primitive.
"Toyota does not have good engine development program, their best engines are made by Yamaha. Their V6's had sludge problems. " What?!? Toyota uses a Yamaha engine in the XRS Corolla (very limited production), the XRS Matrix (very limited production), and I think the GTS Celica (again, very limited production). That's about it. Considering the size of Toyota, the number of outsourced engines is very small. As far as the sludge issue, I still side with most people that say that regular oil changes will have zero problems on these so called sluge engines. If you check around the net, lots of Toyota master mechanics say that they have never seen a single legitimate sludge case. But this is in another forum. Back to the topic: For one thing, Toyota has its own diesels, so why would they be interested in a deal like this? I think that Toyota has an incredible engine development, transmission development, etc. etc. programs. Look at where they rank in sales (#2 in world), long term reliability (#1 Lexus), wealth (#1), etc. etc. Honda and GM had something to gain from each other, that's why Saturn used Honda's engine.
I drove both of these vehicles extensively before purchasing my Tribute, but my impressions on the CRV vs. the VUE are this:
Engine - Obviously the VUE wins this with the 250HP V6 Honda engine coupled to the 5sp automatic transmission. Honda's little 4cyl in the CRV is great, but lacks the power and torque of the V6 VUE.
Exterior - Close call. Not really in love with either body style, but tend to lean towards the VUE, since I hate the rear mounted spare tire on the CRV and the fact that it swings the wrong way! Makes loading things at the curb side (a must in DC) rather awkward. Both are a little too boxy and plain for me, but are not ugly either like the Hyundai Sante Fe.
Interior - Definitely give the nod to the CRV here. The VUE's fit and finish are not up to par with the CRV, and did not like the placement of the power window switches on the VUE. I thought the leather on the VUE felt and looked cheap. The only big knock on the CRV was the placement of the shifter. The Honda looks smaller than the VUE, but has a ton of interior space.
Driving impressions - This was the show stopper for me with the VUE.. The electronic steering gets a major thumbs down from me on the VUE, it felt like the VUE was "floating" and very "numb". The VUE just had zero personality. I liked the powerful engine, but the steering was so numb, I knew instantly that I could not drive this vehicle for 3-5 years. The Honda felt very responsive, but was lacking a little power at speeds of 55-70 (gotta have that in DC when trying to merge and pass on our numerous, wild interstates). What was Saturn thinking with regards to the electronic steering??
Reliability - After cruising through the message boards, gotta give the nod to Honda. The VUE especially the 4cyl with CVT has had tons of issues. Saturn is now offering either deeper incentives (rebates), or an extended warranty. I am guessing that they have had so many issues with the VUE that they felt inclined to offer the extended warranty..
Resale - Again, gotta go with the Honda. Saturn has one of the worst depreciation rates over any car dealer (and the Koreans are catching up quickly to Saturn here). I should know, I bought a new Saturn in 97, and could not believe how much it depreciated in three years.
Overall, the only thing I thought the VUE had going for it was the engine and transmission which they borrowed from Honda... Hmm.... Maybe they should have purchased some other parts from Honda (steering, interior plastics, better leather, ergonomics. This one would be easy for me. I would pick the Honda, hands down (although I challenge anyone looking at either of these to go drive a V6 Tribute. A completely loaded Tribute will still cost several thousand less than either a Honda or Saturn).....
"A completely loaded Tribute will still cost several thousand less than either a Honda or Saturn)....."
Really? A fully loaded Tribute stickers for more than $27K(US). The CR-V EX or SE can be PURCHASED for $22K-23.5K. Even the 4 cylinder Tribute has a higher sticker than a comparable CR-V. Feel free to post your numbers.
I should've explained myself instead of leaving a blank message.
To be honest with you, my decision to choose the view was based a lot on the dealership experience. I previously had a 2004 Mazda3 hatchback. I just bought a house and am getting married in the summer plus I really wanted to get my beautiful wife-to-be an SUV. I really didn't need the functionality of a hatchback once we got an SUV so I was looking to trade it in (also had the dreaded A/C problem in my 3). To make a long story short, I didn't get very attentive service at the Honda dealership and I would've been severely "upside-down" on my trade. I did enjoy the CR-V and agree with what a lot of the people are saying on this board about the car.
At Saturn, I was offered over almost $2,000 more for my 3(very close to what I still owed on the car). They weren't pushy or aggresive at all. In fact, I went back to the dealership 3 times before I made the purchase and I was able to secure the same deal from the 1st night. The plastic interior is a far cry from both the CR-v and the mazda3 but I did find the v-6 vue more enjoyable. My fiance also test drove both cars and enjoyed the Vue more. I was able to secure 0% financing with no money down and also purchased an extended warranty (a lot of you might say "smart move" since Saturns don't have good reliability). We do plan on keeping this car for a while and I'm more at ease with paying for a warranty that we might/might not need than paying more than that amount in interest.
Everyone's got different opinions and that's mine. We'll just have to see how this car holds up in 5 years.
When I bought my Tribute, I was able to purchase slightly below invoice plus 4K in incentives (including a 1K rebate with financing through Mazda). I was able to purchase a Tribute S AWD V6 (with pkg 3 (leather, sunroof, heated seats, etc), side curtain airbags, and an auto dimming mirror for 21,888. A comparably equipped Honda CRV SE was about 23400, and they would were about $800 lower on my trade-in.
The biggest issue I had with the CRV was with the dealer experience. Found several local dealers to be arrogant and unwavering in lowering their price. So far, I have been extremely pleased with my purchase, and would recommend that anyone thinking about purchasing a CRV or VUE go take one for a test drive. If the CRV would have had stronger engine and more torque (V6), then it would have been a much more difficult choice.
Agree with you on the Saturn dealership experience, as well as the Honda experience. My local Saturn dealer was really great when I came in to test drive the VUE. They really knew all the features and let me take it for a nice long drive. But, the no haggle price actually worked against them since the loaded Saturn was about 4K more than the Mazda Tribute I purchased that had more features. The Honda dealer was arrogant and did not seem interested in making a sale.
I am glad to hear that you drove several different vehicles and are happy with your purchase, in the end that is what really matters. Is your warranty transferable if you sell the car in a few years? My Tribute came with a pretty good warranty (4yr/50K) so I decided against the extended warranty since I rarely keep a car more than 5 years
In retrospect, the price of the VUE was a lot more than both the CR-V and the Tribute. But factor in the more $$ they gave me for the trade, V-6 engine, 0% financing, and more importantly that my fiance would much rather drive a Vue than a CR-V, it was a more logical choice.
The extended warranty is transferable if I was to sell the car. A large part of the reason I bought the warranty was to basically cover the car for the duration of the 5 year loan. This is going to be my fiance's car and she's mainly going to use it for driving within a 15 mile radius so I'm hoping that there won't be too much wear and tear. Given Saturn's perceived poor reliability here and in various car magazines, the warranty just gives me some piece of mind.
I had thought about the Tribute but honestly decided against it because of my Mazda3 experience. The closest dealership is 26 miles away. I had issues with the service department abusing service quotes over the phone and selling me services I didn't need. I also brought the car in for a warrantied repair which took them 3 days to do, when I got the car back it had the same problem so I drove it right back to let them know. I had to bring it back the next day since they were booked and it took them another 5 days to fix it (they did get it right the 2nd time though). If I bought the Tribute, I really didn't have anyone I could bring for service except them. To contrast, the Saturn dealership is only 3 miles away.
The Tribute is a great car and you get a lot more bang for your buck. If there was a good Mazda dealership in the same automall as the Saturn, who know's what would've happened.
I am happy with my Vue and even happier that my fiance will love it.
a very nice lady decided to RAM my CR-V and Kill it... it was a '98.. it had 162,00 miles on it... it still ran great... nothing wrong with it... just like it had came off the lot... It was my BABY!!!!..... BUT... HONDA has Screwed up.... They now only offer 6 or 8 colors... all are some form of black or white... with Blue and Red... which i like neither.. ... I had a Green one... Well.. i thought.. i like the Pewter one... well.. it only comes with the Moon Roof.. When did they start calling them a Moon Roof... Well.. i have No need for a Moon Roof... Okay... i had All Wheel Drive... also 4 Wheel Drive... Well.. you can get that in Pewter... but you would have to get the Moon Roof.... NO!!!!! Okay... how about the Silver One... Okay... No Moon Roof... But.. You won't get the Chrome Wheels either... WHAT???!!!! OH... and if you do get the Pewter one.. it comes with controls for the Stereo... Well.. i am sorry.. but i use my own equipment... can i get one without the controls... NO!!!!!!.... Okay.. What Bone Head decided to come up with this plan... I thought it was all about Choice.... Let me Pick the Colour i want.. and the Options i want... Well.. i want a V6.. well.... all the V6 come with a Moon Roof.... I DON'T WANT A MOON ROOF.... Do you not get it... i am trying to be a REPEAT customer.... and the whole time... my wife is saying... look across the street... i see a VUE... let's go look at it... so we do... and the guy walks up.. and says... YES SIr.. how may i help you... and i LOST IT.... how dare you not address my Wife.... i was ready to leave right then and there... i didn't care if they were giving them away for free... i did not want anything from that lot...Period.... But.. she still wants to go back... What do i do... i want my Baby back.....
Comments
The fall in rating would not detract me from buying though. I know Saturn will take care of me and that as time goes on the VUE will get better and better just like any other model over time.
Vuefor2 - Thanks, but I'm pretty well set with my '99 CR-V.
I am intrigued by the Honda engine in the VUE.
My 02 CRV needs more ponies for freeway merging
but most SUVs with V6 engines added so much weight they are not quick.Is this new Saturn the answer or will it be the dog that the Sterling became after they merged Japanese and British cars?
In short, I expect it will be plenty quick.
You might also take a look at the Foster turbo if you really want to go for a ride.
mac...
As with some others, the only reason I started to look at the Vue was because of the Honda V-6 it currently offers.
Otherwise on paper the Honda pretty much wins out as far as leg room, space, etc....
If the CRV were to have a V-6 then there would be no question.....we'd purchase it. We drove the CRV a few months ago but found it to be pretty noisy inside...road noise and such..
I guess we're going to check into it again as well as check into the Vue. We've not owned a Honda before and have been happy with our other vehicles, however it is hard to ignore the reliability ratings and resale values the Hondas carry.
Cheers.
Dave
The difference is in mileage. The CR-V will get better in town mileage, but about the same or maybe even slightly lower highway mileage.
The big difference in the two vehicles is in design and build quality. It's a question of which design you like and your personal confidence level in Saturn engineering and service.
Also, my wife hated the interior. (cloth)
On the other hand, either the CRV or Vue would have been nice around here today as most places are flooding.... Oh well...
If we're talking build quality, then I'll say again that the only reason I even started looking at the Vue was because of the Honda V-6.
We drove an Escape the other day (sister-in-law's) which has 30k miles on it. They live wayyy out in the boonies on a ranch with tons of rough roads. There were so many rattles and squeaks in that thing it drove me nuts. (but that's not a far trip.. :-)
cheers
Other things we noticed. There is no rear armrest/console. Our daughter uses that like crazy.
The back glass doesn't lift independently from the tailgate. That really bugs my wife.
I loved the Honda V-6 in it.
The interior is pretty cheap. Parts don't have a fit-n-finish feel, more like plastic not really fitting correctly.
Sigh.
I suppose we'll just keep looking around. Maybe back at the Xterra, though that was pretty poor in the power department.
After looking at both again, the exterior of the Vue has much more character and excitement. The CRV is just too boring looking for our tastes.
cheers
cheers
Here is something that might help in decision making: CR has published their latest reliability rankings on their web page (restricted to subscribers):
CR-V - 65% above Industry Average
RAV4 - 55%
Element - 50%
Forester - 30%
Liberty - 20%
Xterra - 19%
Sante Fe - 17%
Rodeo - 12%
Sorento - 12%
Wrangler - 0% (industry average)
Escape/Tribute - negative 5%
Tracker - neg 7%
Vitara/XL-7 - neg 7%
Aztek - neg 30%
Vue - neg 60%
Freelander - neg 148%
fyi
Anyway, on to my Saturn question. I have also been eyeing the Redline Vue. I like the wheels it comes with, but the low profile tires concern me. I live and work the Kansas City, Missouri area and our roads this year are so bad, well you might as well be off-roading. We just bought a program 2003 L200 for my daughter and I have replaced 2 rims on it due to unexpected pothole encounters (the second was a pothole my wife found hiding under a large puddle in the rain). The L200 does not even have what I would consider low profile tires on it, I just checked and they are 65R series. Does anyone have any thoughts or experience on 50 series tires in a pothole-infested area? I don't want to think about replacing one of those beautiful 18" wheels.
Other than that, I think the 1" drop, suspension and steering tuning along with the 250HP would make that vehicle a blast to drive (I have not taken a test drive yet - no time, have not been really ready to buy yet, etc). The body work really sets it off. I continue to be amazed at the lack of marketing effort for cars like this. Same with the Pacifica. They seem to think they will sell themselves, but most people don't even know about them. I think Saturn is really missing the boat by not running the Redline VUE up the flagpole. It would run off and leave a lot of vehicles in the dust. Let people know.
You basically lose the benefits of owning an SUV by throwing low profile, wide wheels on it. In the winter ya'd better get snow tires and rims on it in a hurry or you'll be all over the road. If you just need utility and want a great ride, consider the Mazda6 5-door and Sport Wagon. Or, get a Forester XT.
The lower profile you have the more repairs and new tires you would need ($$$$). None of your new tires will live long - they would be damaged before they will be worn. Why to buy expensive good tires then? I learn that hard way. My son switched to big rims and low profile tires and after that all hell broke loose. I really do not remember how many new tires he got since then - but very MANY!! He is very busy now - the tire shop is his way of life with his rims of choice. I bet we got other way to spend our extra money. IMO it's especially stupid to equip SUV with low profile tires. SUV is not a race track car.
As for the low profile tires, I'll add that these are pretty harsh on the suspension, not just the rubber. But, hey, do whatever you think works best for you.
The VUE redline on the other flagpole displays a larger SUV kind of between a compact and midsize that others like myself prefer.
Safety is probably a match. Towing capibility, probably not (Vue 3,500lbs, XT ?). Sporty appearance, well, it's hard to make the XT look sporty. The redline with 235/50/18's, that sets it feet down and will draw more eyes. Performancewise, school me.
As for me, I opted for the '04 ecotec 5 speed. So far it's been real good. The mileage is good 24-27 all around. As for highway,I haven't had a chance to stretch it's legs out yet. People are saying up to 33 mpg.
If someone is looking at modifying, GM has a whole lot up it's sleeves for the ecotec. This engine was engineered and designed to be modified. It uses the oil pan as a structural member increasing strength to the lower end. Casting are set up for dry sumping and additional lubrication points. I'm reading the ecotec is currently leading Honda, Acura, Toyota & the rest at the drags. They will soon be breaking into 7.0 sec. They are called the "import slayer" at the strips. Not only that, GM will be offering plans and parts to build the ecotec into a 1000 hp motor. The stock engine is good for over 300hp with a twin turbo. If you want to build a street racing, your money is wasted if not applied to the ecotec.
As for either making either look like a fool, I think they both offer a good package for each it's own.
The Red Line was pretty fast. It's advertised to do 60 in about 7 seconds, don't see any reason to believe it couldn't do it. It was a lot faster than the Escape I drove last year, about the same as an Aviator and slower than a V8 SRX. The SRX and Aviator are some pretty strong SUV's and there aren't many compacts that can hang with them in acceleration.
The ride is decent, not really smooth but this isn't a boulevardier. If the road's fairly smooth, so is the ride. If road gets a little rough, you'll feel it. It's certainly better than the 330i I drove last summer.
Handling is very good athough this is still a tall vehicle and it does lean a bit in hard corners. I haven't driven a standard VUE, but I have to believe lowering it helps here as will the big tires.
I see some talk about low profile tires. This has 50 series tires, which aren't all that low. It's not like we're riding 30 series here... I wouldn't be worried in the least about dinging the rims.
If someone's going through tires, they probably went to a soft compound or are doing burnouts. Just having low profile tires doesn't automatically mean short tire life. I do believe in going to dedicated snows and street tires (IMO, something like an inexpensive Kumho Ecsta would work very well here) to maximize performance, which means 2 sets of wheels.
They've upgraded the interiors since the last time I sat in a VUE... it's decent now, not the best but not bad either. The leather seats are pretty flat, but comfortable. You'll have to hang on a little when you fly the corners. Seat heaters are nice.
The outside is a sharp looker. IMO, this is now the best looking compact SUV - the wheels and lowering seem to have the visual effect of shrinking it a bit. It looks smaller than it is... open up the back and it's got lots of room.
Well, that's it. Everybody seems to think that the Honda motor in this will run a zillion miles and it's got those plastic panels... old Saturn and even Fiero bodies never seem to deteriorate. If you wanted to could you drive this thing forever?
The Vue is no where near the Forester in safety.
2002 Vue wasn't 5 star all the way around.
2003 Vue wasn't 5 star all the way around.
2004 Vue is 5 star all the way around.
2002 - 2004 the Forester gets the segments highest marks in the IIHS (Insurance Institute for Highway Safety) tests, a good rating for all tests. (Good is their highest rating.) The Vue gets a good for frontal and a POOR (their worst rating) for side impacts. It also gets a good for head restraints and a poor for bumpers.
The Forester is a much safer vehicle based upon crash tests alone.
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Jeannine Fallon
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Saturn VUE - quite honestly wasn't even on the radar screen at the start. Non body-colored bumpers are pretty much a deal breaker for me. Especially on this vehicle, it just leaves all the different angular body panels looking rather disjointed to my eyes. Then I saw a Redline model in one of my monthly car mags. Wow...it's amazing what the addition of body colored bumpers, subtle ground effects and 18" wheels can do. Then add in a 250HP/5sp Honda drivetrain, lowered and retuned suspension, the virtually child/parking lot proof plastic body panels and great safety marks with the side curtain airbags. Top it off with $3750 worth of incentives on remaining '04s and now I'm on red alert. This might actually strike the unlikely compromise between a sports car and a kid-hauler. In fact, I would actually get excited about driving this on the weekends.
The test drive didn't disappoint in the acceleration or handling department absolute bliss. Road and wind noise were higher than expected. On the interior, the rear seat room was good and the fold down grocery holder in the cargo compartment was a thoughtful idea. Unfortunately, the overall interior theme looked and more so FELT hard, brittle and cheap.
Take away the incentives (couldn't find a remaining '04 anywhere), no chance to haggle on the price and factor in questionable resale value and longer-term reliability in everything other than the drivetrain and the vivid picture started to fade. I spend most of my week driving domestic rental cars of all shape and size due to travel. The thought of extending the plasticy interior experience into my weekends just wasn't that attractive. Vastly improve the interior look and feel, lower the price slightly and it’d be sitting in my garage.
Honda CR-V SE – The original and subsequent exterior styling of the CR-V has always looked awkward and quirky to me. But this latest iteration is handsome, coordinated, if not even a bit masculine. The SE specific metallic pewter color with the color matched front and rear fascias is simply fabulous. The perforated leather-clad interior is no slouch either with material, fit, finish and FEEL quality closer to something German than its entry-level econo-price would indicate. The 60/40 rear seats recline, slide forward and back to maximize legroom or storage room and even tumble forward for exceptional cargo capacity in relation to its exterior size. There are creative storage compartments and nooks galore, a removable picnic table and a convenient rear glass only tilt-up feature. You get heated front seats and side view mirrors, a moonroof and a six-disc changer with remote controls in the wheel as bonus. Minor interior snicks for me are the chintzy inside door handles and relatively thick and high doorsills. They may dirty up a few pant legs until one’s entry/exit technique adapts.
The test drive brought to light a teeny turning radius, progressive braking, solid emergency maneuver handling, but a slightly firm ride, which may be off-putting to some. Wind and road noise were decent for the category. Had to wonder what a better set of tires would net. The 160 ponies were surprising smooth and strong but of course couldn’t put on anywhere near the barn burning show the Red Line’s 250 horsies did. The CR-V had no problem getting out of it’s own way or maintaining a 75-80 mph cruising speed though. The engine’s torquey attitude and well-spaced gearing in the 5 sp auto tranny made it feel more V6-like than the frugal I-4 it actually is (22c/27h MPG). Almost nit picking, but weaker vocal cords from the motivation choir wouldn’t disappoint my ears.
Did I mention AWD, front side torso and side curtain airbags, ABS, stability control and a top-notch safety rating from NHTSA. All this for $25,565 MSRP ($23,651 invoice) with all but guaranteed strong resale value and long-term reliability. Now this sounds like the vehicle that is sitting in my garage.
Can anybody explain then WHY they had to go to Honda for their Saturn V-6's??
Steve, Host
Maybe I can interest you in some Chinese oil filter gaskets? There's a few pallet loads on special sale right now for some reason :-)
Steve, Host
BTW, I'm not one of them, I like the I-4.
Can anybody explain then WHY they had to go to Honda for their Saturn V-6's??
Honda needed diesels to sell in Europe, GM's Izuzu is one of the bigger diesel engine manufacturers, the deal was that Honda would get Diesels from Izuzu, and GM would get 3.5L V6's from Honda. Now that Honda developed an in-house Diesel, we may not see Satrun VUE with a Honda V6 in the future.
As to why GM chose Honda, and not Toyota or others. Toyota does not have good engine development program, their best engines are made by Yamaha. Their V6's had sludge problems.
To help address concerns over Honda's go-it-alone approach, they concocted a scheme where they would sell engines to other companies as something of a side business. GM was their first customer. But rather than do a straight purchase deal, the engine swap worked out better for both of them.
If Honda develops a smaller diesel for the Euro markets, they may continue to sell J35s to GM, rather than trade for them. They may yet find other companies interested in their engines. Frankly, I think Hyundai should make an offer for the J30. Hyundai's cars are pretty good, but their V6 engines are primitive.
They get their V6s from Mitsubishi, don't they?
Back to the topic: For one thing, Toyota has its own diesels, so why would they be interested in a deal like this? I think that Toyota has an incredible engine development, transmission development, etc. etc. programs. Look at where they rank in sales (#2 in world), long term reliability (#1 Lexus), wealth (#1), etc. etc. Honda and GM had something to gain from each other, that's why Saturn used Honda's engine.
I thought it has been documented that is not true?
Engine - Obviously the VUE wins this with the 250HP V6 Honda engine coupled to the 5sp automatic transmission. Honda's little 4cyl in the CRV is great, but lacks the power and torque of the V6 VUE.
Exterior - Close call. Not really in love with either body style, but tend to lean towards the VUE, since I hate the rear mounted spare tire on the CRV and the fact that it swings the wrong way! Makes loading things at the curb side (a must in DC) rather awkward. Both are a little too boxy and plain for me, but are not ugly either like the Hyundai Sante Fe.
Interior - Definitely give the nod to the CRV here. The VUE's fit and finish are not up to par with the CRV, and did not like the placement of the power window switches on the VUE. I thought the leather on the VUE felt and looked cheap. The only big knock on the CRV was the placement of the shifter. The Honda looks smaller than the VUE, but has a ton of interior space.
Driving impressions - This was the show stopper for me with the VUE.. The electronic steering gets a major thumbs down from me on the VUE, it felt like the VUE was "floating" and very "numb". The VUE just had zero personality. I liked the powerful engine, but the steering was so numb, I knew instantly that I could not drive this vehicle for 3-5 years. The Honda felt very responsive, but was lacking a little power at speeds of 55-70 (gotta have that in DC when trying to merge and pass on our numerous, wild interstates). What was Saturn thinking with regards to the electronic steering??
Reliability - After cruising through the message boards, gotta give the nod to Honda. The VUE especially the 4cyl with CVT has had tons of issues. Saturn is now offering either deeper incentives (rebates), or an extended warranty. I am guessing that they have had so many issues with the VUE that they felt inclined to offer the extended warranty..
Resale - Again, gotta go with the Honda. Saturn has one of the worst depreciation rates over any car dealer (and the Koreans are catching up quickly to Saturn here). I should know, I bought a new Saturn in 97, and could not believe how much it depreciated in three years.
Overall, the only thing I thought the VUE had going for it was the engine and transmission which they borrowed from Honda... Hmm.... Maybe they should have purchased some other parts from Honda (steering, interior plastics, better leather, ergonomics. This one would be easy for me. I would pick the Honda, hands down (although I challenge anyone looking at either of these to go drive a V6 Tribute. A completely loaded Tribute will still cost several thousand less than either a Honda or Saturn).....
Really? A fully loaded Tribute stickers for more than $27K(US). The CR-V EX or SE can be PURCHASED for $22K-23.5K. Even the 4 cylinder Tribute has a higher sticker than a comparable CR-V. Feel free to post your numbers.
But, I agree with every one of your other points comparing the CR-V and the VUE...
Amazingly enough..
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To be honest with you, my decision to choose the view was based a lot on the dealership experience. I previously had a 2004 Mazda3 hatchback. I just bought a house and am getting married in the summer plus I really wanted to get my beautiful wife-to-be an SUV. I really didn't need the functionality of a hatchback once we got an SUV so I was looking to trade it in (also had the dreaded A/C problem in my 3). To make a long story short, I didn't get very attentive service at the Honda dealership and I would've been severely "upside-down" on my trade. I did enjoy the CR-V and agree with what a lot of the people are saying on this board about the car.
At Saturn, I was offered over almost $2,000 more for my 3(very close to what I still owed on the car). They weren't pushy or aggresive at all. In fact, I went back to the dealership 3 times before I made the purchase and I was able to secure the same deal from the 1st night. The plastic interior is a far cry from both the CR-v and the mazda3 but I did find the v-6 vue more enjoyable. My fiance also test drove both cars and enjoyed the Vue more. I was able to secure 0% financing with no money down and also purchased an extended warranty (a lot of you might say "smart move" since Saturns don't have good reliability). We do plan on keeping this car for a while and I'm more at ease with paying for a warranty that we might/might not need than paying more than that amount in interest.
Everyone's got different opinions and that's mine. We'll just have to see how this car holds up in 5 years.
The biggest issue I had with the CRV was with the dealer experience. Found several local dealers to be arrogant and unwavering in lowering their price. So far, I have been extremely pleased with my purchase, and would recommend that anyone thinking about purchasing a CRV or VUE go take one for a test drive. If the CRV would have had stronger engine and more torque (V6), then it would have been a much more difficult choice.
I am glad to hear that you drove several different vehicles and are happy with your purchase, in the end that is what really matters. Is your warranty transferable if you sell the car in a few years? My Tribute came with a pretty good warranty (4yr/50K) so I decided against the extended warranty since I rarely keep a car more than 5 years
Have fun with your new VUE.
The extended warranty is transferable if I was to sell the car. A large part of the reason I bought the warranty was to basically cover the car for the duration of the 5 year loan. This is going to be my fiance's car and she's mainly going to use it for driving within a 15 mile radius so I'm hoping that there won't be too much wear and tear. Given Saturn's perceived poor reliability here and in various car magazines, the warranty just gives me some piece of mind.
I had thought about the Tribute but honestly decided against it because of my Mazda3 experience. The closest dealership is 26 miles away. I had issues with the service department abusing service quotes over the phone and selling me services I didn't need. I also brought the car in for a warrantied repair which took them 3 days to do, when I got the car back it had the same problem so I drove it right back to let them know. I had to bring it back the next day since they were booked and it took them another 5 days to fix it (they did get it right the 2nd time though). If I bought the Tribute, I really didn't have anyone I could bring for service except them. To contrast, the Saturn dealership is only 3 miles away.
The Tribute is a great car and you get a lot more bang for your buck. If there was a good Mazda dealership in the same automall as the Saturn, who know's what would've happened.
I am happy with my Vue and even happier that my fiance will love it.
I hope you plan to keep the vehicle a long time.
Apples to apples, the Tribute costs more than the CR-V. But this is a VUE thread.
OH... and if you do get the Pewter one.. it comes with controls for the Stereo... Well.. i am sorry.. but i use my own equipment... can i get one without the controls... NO!!!!!!....
Okay.. What Bone Head decided to come up with this plan... I thought it was all about Choice.... Let me Pick the Colour i want.. and the Options i want... Well.. i want a V6.. well.... all the V6 come with a Moon Roof.... I DON'T WANT A MOON ROOF.... Do you not get it... i am trying to be a REPEAT customer....
and the whole time... my wife is saying... look across the street... i see a VUE... let's go look at it... so we do... and the guy walks up.. and says... YES SIr.. how may i help you... and i LOST IT.... how dare you not address my Wife.... i was ready to leave right then and there... i didn't care if they were giving them away for free... i did not want anything from that lot...Period.... But.. she still wants to go back...
What do i do... i want my Baby back.....
David.....
Dsn