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Comments
Remember when the SHO switched from a 3.0L V6 to a 3.4L V8, gaining displacement, cylinder count, power, and torque, and ended up worse for it?
For North America it's not likely to see a MS edition of the 4cyl. In sticking with our gluttonous tastes a 6cyl MS6 is much more likely.
Speedometers are much more accurate than 10%, closer to 2 to 3%. They are generally calibrated high so they consistantly read faster than you are going.
Have you ever try to compute the engine rpm at certain given cruising speed and compare with what you observe? I did it on my Protege5, and there is about 7% of difference. In addition, if the speedometer is over read, then it will make things ever worse. That means the tachometer is about 9-10% off. That's a lot of inaccuracy.
Bruno
I suppose I could install any aftermarket cigarette lighter connected to the same circuit as the normal cig. lighter. Anyone foresee any problem with that?
I checked at CarsDirect.com. The MSRP for what I assume will be a typically loaded car, with V6, Auto, leather, comfort pkg, bose upgrade, cassette player, 6 disc cd changer, moonroof, side airbags, and not even including some of the smaller options is $25,615. Add in sales tax of $1793 and you have $27,408. And this is WITHOUT the sport package, since I prefer a car w/o the plastic cladding and over-the-top spoiler. Add in $1500 for even modestly good 17" wheels/tires and the total comes to $28,908 (or $18,000 plus even if you go with the sport package). Dem's the facts. Even dropping the CD changer and cassette player it's still over $18,000 for one like I want. The reason I factor in sales tax, etc, is that if I buy my other choice, a nice used luxury car, from a private seller, I don't have to pay tax at all.
Knock off a thousand or so in a few months if demand is soft, or more if the car is a bomb, but if that's the case then I suppose resale value will be even worse. But you are still looking at a car that's within a few thousand of cars in the next class up. I like the 6, but the similar performing Saab 9-3 just appeals to me more.
As for the Saab's size, I haven't sat in one, but I checked the stats and it's within an inch of the BMW 5 series in most interior dimensions, and has more headroom. I thought our two 5's were plenty spacious enough, since we don't have kids.
Finally, I read here that the Saab got 5+ for safety, the Mazda 3+ in a recent comparison test. That's another plus. I have yet to test drive either, so that may well be the deciding factor of course.
Are you comparing new and used cars and then new and new cars? In all this confusion, even I lost count. And I don't feel lucky today.
And what safety figures are out on the Mazda6?
Isn't everything relative?
Oh, and he gets it FREE. Sick, huh?
Some other very quick impressions:
Audi A4 - liked a lot, but felt cramped in drivers seat, (right leg crammed at console).
Saab 9-3 - Liked a lot, but also felt cramped inside, too many small buttons on dash, (was too busy). Nice looking car though.
M45 - disliked it a lot, esp for a 40-45k car. 340 hp isn't everything.
Corolla - Surprised by its very excellent fit and finish and how comfortable the drivers seat was.
Passat - Surprised how firm the seats were, too firm I think. Dash kinda bland. Smaller on the inside than I thought it would be.
BMW Z4 - Really wanted to like this one, couldn't fit in very well. 2000S is much more comfortable.
Accord - Have tried to let the looks grow on me. Nope, not yet. Hated the dash. Like the coupe (exterior) much better, (same ugly dash though).
What REALLY tripped my trigger was the G35 Coupe. I kept coming back to it several times. What a beautiful car! Inside and out! Yeah, but it cost around 35k, so unless the stock market corrects its very wicked ways soon, I won't be getting it (or anything else for that matter!!!) for a loooong time). Oh well, it's still nice to dream.
Got a laugh about the parking in a previous post, (needed 2 feet). Ha! While in Toronto this summer, I saw a small car squeezing into a spot with about 2 INCHES to spare front & rear (I'm not kidding!). And yes, they got it in!. I had to stand and watch this adventure!
P.S.Thanks for all the great posts....
The Saab 9-3 will be sharing platform with the 2004 Chevy Malibu, hardly a "luxury" car, just a "different" one with the key hole in the console. And, it was featured in 'Seinfeld', I.E. a car for "image is all" yuppies.
Also, nobody in thier right mind will pay MSRP for a 6 unless they can't wait till supplies build up. Altimas go for discounts now, just wait.
And what's with edmunds review: "Tight rear-seat accommodations" and then when you read the car and driver review it praises how spacious the backseat is!!!
Starting to lose my faith in edmunds when it come's to review's, alot of inaccurate info and typo's, totally unacceptable!!!
As to the printed version, in addition to what you pay, what is it filled with? Did you know most magazines get well over 2/3 of their revenue from ads? Do you think there is any possibility that what a car magazine writes could be influenced by the desire to sell ads?
What does Edmunds cost you? And what annoyances do you have to put up with to use Edmunds? What incentive does Edmunds have to change its opinions to fit what the companies would like to hear?
Finally, is it very nice to eat a host's steak dinner then sit at the table and complain about the quality of the steak that the host has worked hard to provide you and charged you exactly nothing for eating? Even compare it to the quality of dinners bought and paid for elsewhere?
Just wondering...
I think I will wait and try the backseat out for myself, as well as the V6 vs. 4, etc.
It's the C&D people who are inaccurate and inconsistent. They have the Focus on their 10Best list for a couple of years now, and in the latest comparison test, it didn't even place second.
That's why I'm more interested in the wagon or hatch (in addition to the utility of their cargo doors)...I do have a few tall friends after all.
That's probably why they didn't bring over the adjustable headrests in the rear...trying to discourage any taller passengers from sitting in the rear seat (oh, and visibility, maybe).
They didn't have and 6s at the dealership I visited last night (shipment delayed...Mazdausa shows they have 5 in their inventory...probably en route). I did get a brochure. They must've used early prototypes for the pictures because I noticed a lot of mismatched body panels and doors and other little things like missing rubber bumpers under the corners of the trunk lid (one on the right but missing on the left) and stuff like that. Oh well, picky me.
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OK, practicality and roominess aside, how's does the 6's driving mannors differ from smaller sporty cars such as the Celica, RSX, and the Protege? I currently drive an old Celica and really enjoy the small-car charactoristics, but am planning on getting a 6. Am I in for heavyweight shock?
I realize a midsized car, especially in America, is perpetually an oxymoron with performance, and that's why the 6 is so appealing--it breaks the typical mold of sacrificing zoom for room. The 6 can be the best among its midsized rivals, but since cargo space isn't very high on my priority list, I am going to cross-shop it with smaller cars, such as an RSX. I still haven't driven either, only my old Celica and an '02 Protege, both of which I like.
I realize everyone here loves the car, but I don't have the constraint of needing a midsize. I'm sure the "total package" of the 6 will have me sold (after all, hardly anything on the car that isn't impressive), but once I have to live with my new car, am I going to miss the days of driving a smaller, lighter, and less refined car?
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I should clarify that the 6 is already at the top of my price list. An Audi TT is out of the question, as is an RX-8 or Nissan Z. Believe me, the RX-8 looks like a dream car of mine. I need to hold four people (uncomfortably) on occassion, and still want a semi-useful trunk, which leaves out the Miata and MR2. The RSX fits these criteria perfectly, but just doesn't seem exciting. The 6 does, though, and the huge space in the 6 is like a bonus. If I can buy used to save $$$, then all the better.
But, regardless of this, I'm trying to focus exclusively on the fun-to-drive quotient- will I get the same thrill in a bigger car than what I'm used to? If the 6 drives like a small car, then the cargo space is a bonus. On the other hand, if the 6, sporty as it may be, still isn't as tossable as my old little car, I'll feel like I'm carrying around excess baggage.
I began thinking of this after seeing the US's bumpers grow- extending the length of the car another 2-3 inches for no reason, and it already has a very large turning radius.
Personally, if saving money and having fun is at the top of your list...stick to a PRO ES w/GT package (sunroof, alloys, A/C, spoiler).
I'm more or less in the same boat as you: next November (2003) I will NEED to buy a 2nd car. I have an 01 PRO ES and love it. My budget is $10.000-11.000 CDN. I can get a 3 yr old PRO with all the goodies mentionned above (GT package here in Canada), a 1995 Maxima SE, 95 Accord, 98 Civic Coupe... but that means trading sportiness for luxury/space, things I don't care about.
So PRO is it for me.
Dinu
From what I have seen/heard the RX-8 would be ideal. My 6'6" friend said he can actually sit in the back (uncomfortably). Pretty amazing for a guy who can't drive a Miata with the top up.
Seems like the 6i manual that several posters are interested in might be harder to come by than the 6s 5speed.
The one 6i manual has 5 SP - LEA - SR - COM - PREM PKG (taking that as leather, sunroof, comfort package and premium package) with a price of $22,520.
Of the 6s 5spds, two are strippers: base plus wheel locks @ $21,650. The third is LEATHER - SR - LOX(wheel locks) - COMF PKG and goes for $23,430.
The only one with a sport package is one of the automatics.
There is only one of the 32 cars has side air bags and that is a 6i auto that also has the premium package, TCS and ABS and comes in at $21,580.
The most expensive model is a 6s auto with LEA - SR - COMF PK - BOSE for $24,965.
They have 6 stripper 6i autos that for $19,900.
Really, the next Protege ES will probably be a perfect car for me, with the new Mazda 2.3l engine, but I can't wait that long.
"Do you think there is any possibility that what a car magazine writes could be influenced by the desire to sell ads?" Car and Driver has bashed many a car from companies that support them. GM is one example.
Looks like lots of nitpicking on the 6, probably from worried Brand X owners. "Oh no, my car isn't perfect", what will my frineds think?"
Is it that obvious? Anyone drive their Pro to the dealership to test drive a 6? Which was more fun?
With the 6's more sophisticated suspension, I'd hope it could handle at least as well, yet be more comfortable to ride in. I'm even more curious how the handling of the 6 stacks up to an RSX or Celica, the latter which I drive now. Better, worse, or just different? I fear missing my little car, but think the total package of the 6 is too good to pass up.
The Pro goes away in 2 years in favor of the '3'.
I talked to a product planner who is dealing with that issue and he says it's all about prestige, not about usefulness. I think it's good in rentals or for people who spend their days on sales calls, but otherwise does it have any appeal to the masses?
Edit: I'm asking in the context of cost justification.
I think the nav system are an affectation. YMMV.
For everyday driving, it's not necessary at all.
Then again, most SUVs are for image only.
I wouldn't waste my money or the space inside my car for a NAV system. Besides, it puts even more buttons on the dash, which seem to cover the consoles of current BMWs like a rash. Just give me the extra storage cubby.
If I wanted a NAV system, it'd be more of a temporary item (i.e. GPS receiver hooked up to a laptop or one of the stand-alone units). I can then take it out when I don't need it, and can transfer it between vehicles or take it hiking. Plus, they're easier to update in the comfort of a house.
NAV: For maximum $100 CDN ($62 US), I'd take it. More than that it's just a waste. As someone pointed out earlier it's all about "prestige" (aka: "snobiness" on wheels).
Dinu
The Miata has limited horsepower and poor 0-60 times. Always has. Thing is, the car is an absolute blast to drive. Doesn't that matter to anyone?
The Cadillac Deville has more horsepower than a Mazda6. Maybe I should get one of those instead.
What matters to me is what a car "feels" like. That's why I love my Protege5. It only has 130 HP! God, why do it I like it so much? I must be a fool.
I love the P5 deadly. I couldn't be careless about hp, or 0-60, or 1/4 mile numbers. I can average 100 mph on the Hwy for hours. Passing is performed with ease, and the car is RESPONSIVE. That's all matter for me.
Dinu
Click on the 6. They have a really cool screensaver and info on the 6, all in good old Canadian specs of course - for those imperially-challenged metric folks (or something like that).
Dinu
Dinu
So there!
Now, laucnh your own automatic the same way at your own risk, unless you can afford transmission rebuilds every year or two