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Because the exterior of the 6s and 6i are indistinguishable otherwise.
Let me add that for those that find the Accord's styling un-appealing, the articles will not make a difference.
Of course you don't. You may want downforce though, which spoilers can provide.
"All of the Speed World Challenge touring cars on the Speed channel have wings (and they don't use them to look cool)."
They also have front spoilers to offset the effect of the rear spoiler. I still stand by what I said: You don't want more downforce on the back of a FWD car than what you have on the front.
My own opinion is if you like the way it looks, go for it. Its almost the same debate as whether one car is better looking than another. Personal preferences rule.
This is alot more extravagent than the flyer-type thing that came in the mail last Saturday in my mother's name. Maybe I can get away with going to 2 different dealers or taking a friend with me. We shall see.
I agree, but what you originally asked was "Why do you want downforce on the back of a FWD car?"
Anyway, forget it.. we're both essentially saying the same thing.
I received 3 envelopes in a either vivid yellow, blue, and red envelopes just about every other week reminding me to visit. I then was e-mailed to expect the certificate by Mazda and then was e-mailed by local dealer's internet rep to come in the above listed weekend for the festivities and a test drive. Late last week a vivid silver envelope arrived with the CD and invite.
Looks like someone at Mazda got some fancy new CRM/Campaign Management software!!
As a possible 6 owner in 5 months or so I'm wondering about you new 6 owners in the snowy northeast part of the country. How's the defrostin' goin'?
And regarding ambull and newcar31's comments about spoilers on fwd cars -- I've always thought that too -- sorta silly.
So maybe the spoilers on average street cars are not there for downforce like in race cars, but more for looks mainly and some slight aerodynamic advantage.
Can't do it! (before anyone else tries this tack).
On non-Sport cars, the Center High Mounted Stop Light (CHMSL--the goofy brake light on your rear deck) is mounted on the rear deck inside the rear window (backlight). On Sport cars, the CHMSL is integrated into the spoiler. So, if you want the Sport package, you legally have to take the spoiler as long as Mazda is packaging things this way.
Oh, well, it worked for a friend of mine on an Alero...
The whole idea of a spoiler is to "spoil" the smooth airflow over the car. You want to do this so the car shape doesn't act like a wing resulting in lift. To spoil the lift, you pay a price in increased drag due to greater turbulence. Certainly the big panels that pop out airplane wings on descent and touchdown are designed to kill lift and ADD drag, not reduce drag. Certainly in race cars, the tuners are constantly adjusting the rear wings to get the best tradeoff since increasing the downforce causes greater drag.
So I would expect virtually any spoiler to slow a car down, albeit probably a insignificant amount given the small size of spoilers on cars like the Mazda.
- Mark
The Infiniti G35 sedan and coupe both end up with lower Cd with the spoiler/aero package.
From an Edmunds review ( http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/roadtests/firstdrive/49761/article.html ):
"The Aerodynamic package adds a rear spoiler and underbody panels to an already slippery shape. Infiniti spent a great deal of time in a wind tunnel with the G35. By using diffusers, deflectors and carefully positioning underbody components (such as the muffler and fuel tank), the G35 directs underbody air movement rather than obstructing it. This helps the G35 achieve 0 degrees of front lift, thereby improving vehicle stability at high speeds as well as reducing drag and wind noise. With the optional rear spoiler, 0 degrees of rear lift is also achieved. The G35 has a coefficient of drag measurement of just 0.27 (0.26 with the aero package)."
And regarding the G35 coupe ( http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/roadtests/firstdrive/76084/article.html ):
"Cars equipped with the 18s are eligible for the Aero package ($550), which adds a rear spoiler and underside air diffusers to eliminate rear lift entirely (zero front lift is a given) and lower the coefficient of drag from 0.29 to 0.28."
Moving on, does anyone know any release plans about the MPS version of the 6? 280+ horses out of the turbocharged 2.3 sounds sinful, especially with the AWD!
CAR&DRIVER
1: Honda Accord EX-L Manual Trans
2: Mazda 6i Manual Trans with sport package
3: Volkswagen Passat GL 1.8T Automatic Trans
4: Toyota Camry SE Manual Trans
5 tie: Nissan Altima 3.5SE Manual Trans
5 tie: Subaru Legacy L Manual Trans
Who cars about the rest...
ROAD&TRACK
1: Honda Accord EX Auto
2: Mazda 6s Auto no sport package
3(tie): Nissan 3.5SE
4(tie): Camry XLE
5: VW Passat GLX
Motor Trend
1: Mazda 6s Manual with sport package
2: VW Jetta 6 cylinder manual
3: Nissan Altima 6 cylinder manual
Interesting things to note:
car&driver has now tested a fully loaded 6i with 5spd MT and a fully loaded 6s with 5spd MT. Here are the numbers.
300ft skidpad (6i\6s): .86g .84g
Breaking 70-0 mph (6i\6s): 169 feet 183 feet
Acceleration 0-60 mph (6i\6s): 7.9 sec 6.8 sec
In the Road&Track comparison the margin of victory for the Accord was .6pts over the Mazda6 out of a possible 600pts. As other reviews have indicated the 5 spd Auto of the Mazda6 is sluggish and really hurts it's overall performance. Road&Track explicitly said that the Mazda6 begs to be configured with a manual transmission. From my test drive experience (auto & manual), I agree.
In all three comparison articles the writers mention to one extent or another that they are pleasantly surprised that considering how taut
and awesome the Mazda6's handling is, it does not suffer in ride quality, and that ride quality is on par with the less sporty competitors. That's great engineering if you ask me.
After doing this, and the music sounding real good too, i took it to the highway to test it at higher rpm, and it blasted through the merge with supreme ease. It stayed on par or even a tad below the 3rpm level at 130 providing a soothing highway driving experience. While on the highway also, it was impressive to notice almost nil exterior noise level into the cabin(beautiful job benchmarking A4). Got off the highway, unfortunately faced alot of lights on the way back, but that helped me test out the brakes. And it worked the same way the sudden lane change incident did, co operative,intuative and fade resistant of course(great pedal feel). And before you knew it my test was done. =( felt pretty sad he left, and sad my family friend left too i guess. j/k =]
Some post remarks. This car feels like a million bucks. But only worth 23-25k. It seems like it has benchmarked the a4 in terms of materials being buttoned, as well as the almost nil noise level into the cabin on the money. And benchmarked the bmw 3 series, in terms of steering feel, handling, braking on the money as well. While also retaining its uniqueness in terms of design, and price.
This is a seriously nice car, and i'm just 24, but i felt like a ceo driving the mazda 6.
Having said this, I honestly don't have any hard info, just relating that, in general, spoilers are drag increasers, not drag reducers. My only intent is to dissuade people from buying a separate spoiler with the idea that maybe it increases gas mileage.
- Mark
Since there's not any history yet since it's so new, he could only tell me his thoughts on Mazda in general. Said it's a great make (which I know, as I have a MX-6 for 10 years now) and one of the best cars for their value. He said a lot of his customers never thought of getting Mazdas before, after all, how often did you really see any advertising, etc. for them, compared to Honda and Toyota, etc.? But they've encouraged a lot of their customers to get Mazdas and they have and like them. For the most part, he said the 626 (what this replaced, basically) was a good car, and that Mazda has not really had many chronic repair issues, etc. And that Mazda is really really trying to get more exposure and get their name out there with this new 6 car, and because of that they're probably being VERY VERY careful with this car so it makes a good impression. Of course, there are no guarantees, but he encouraged me to get the new Mazda without any qualms or fears, just based on the make's past history from their viewpoint as mechanics.
I am still going to try to curb my temptations and wait to get another $5,000 or so in my bank account so I have more of a cushion when I do buy. Hopefully in the next year or so. But - who knows, maybe I'll cave before that.
The more I think about it, the more I'm thinking Steel Gray, 6i 4AT, Sport Package (I LIKE the spoiler look), NO leather. Don't want to risk ruining the leather from my dog's claws. Probably get the side air bag option too for that extra safety measure.
Not looking forward to the insurance, though. Called State Farm the other day to see what it'd be - $429 every six months, which is $200 over what I pay now on my MX-6. :P Ugh. Oh well. That would go down as the car gets older.
Regarding spoilers--the Honda Civic Hybrid has a tiny little lip spoiler that's not on other Civics. I'm pretty sure it's to reduce drag, and not to keep the rear of the car planted above 100 mph. I agree that bigger spoilers probably don't reduce drag.
markjenn: I agree with you spoiler assessment.
choe13: That's the most glowing review I've heard yet. Anything you didn't like? Sure you're not a Mazda salesman? If not, you should be.
I'm no aerospace engineer, but I believe turbulence from behind a car can pull to slow a car down, and the front also needs to "cut through" the air, so it's beneficial to have a sleek front, but also manage the rear well. So minimizing the vacuum that is created behind a car can improve it's aerodynamics in general.
The question is whether the Mazda6's spoiler are designed to provide a function or just for looks. I think the smaller lip spoiler is better for decreasing drag and the larger one for creating downforce (if any at all). But the smaller one is hardly noticeable, and don't make a statement like the larger spoiler, which is probably what most buyers of spoilers want, that sporty image.
Did some additional research, and this website explains what wings and spoilers do very well:
http://autozine.kyul.net/technical_school/aero/tech_aero.htm
I personally like the GFX parts, and the red sport gauges are sharp. At least the wing won't be on the wagon.
Can anyone verify the length of the wagon? I'm curious if it will be a bit shorter than the sedan, ala the P5.
Revised my customized to include the following:
6i 4AT
Premium Package
Sport Package
Side Air Bags/Curtains
ALB/Traction Control
MSRP $22,410.
We'll see what price my Supplier Discount would get me for that version. Wouldn't mind having the moonroof, but not with the leather mandatory. Oh well.
The UK wagon is 20mm (appx .75") longer and 46mm (appx 1.8") taller than the sedan/hatch.
The US sedan is 186.8". UK sedan is 184.3".
Presuming that the wagon maintains the same proportions with the addition of NA bumpers, then I would guess that the US wagon will be a smidge larger - less than 1".
Yes, both with sport pkg.
It seems that it should be fine for defogging, though.
In a couple of instances, this was on the highway and lanes were merging before I knew it. One time in particular I had to speed up to catch a gap and then almost immediately brake to keep from hitting the front guy in the space. Even in the automatic, I threw it into the manual mode, dropped a gear, and hit the spot then braked (even sans ABS) to fit in nicely. Kinda scary to do it, but exhilerating to have made it out alive.
So, I now have even more confidence in my 6i's ability to do what it needs to even without many of the other options.
Incorrect: The big panels (flaps) on airplanes are designed to INCREASE lift during decent and at slower approach speeds. The extended panel inceases the wing's cord, the distance from front edge to trailing edge, thereby making the wing larger temporarily. It is not an air brake as some assume. It also allows steep decents without increasing speed, as in a dive without the flap extended.
Mazdamarla: You have another decision to make. The Premium Package includes 16"-alloys, the Sport Package includes 17"-alloys, you can't have both.
fowler3
give a test drive, tell me what you think
My Supplier Discount price on that car would be $20,400. (MSRP of $22,410). Invoice price according to kbb.com is $20,362. So I'd be paying $38 over Invoice.
Plus 6% tax plus title plus plate transfer. About $21,700 total, out-the-door.
Tabs or Flaps on a Mazda6?
Seriously, the previous owner of my vehicle had two dogs and they used to ride with him on the leather seats. No problem.
I wasn't talking about the flaps, I was talking about the spoilers. (Most modern airliners have both.) Flaps at the trailing edge of the wings (and leading edge slats) increase wing area, add drag, decrease stalling speed, and add lift. Spoilers are the big flat panels that come out of the tops of the wings and they decrease lift and add drag. They are used to descend more quickly from high altitude and for killing lift right after touchdown for shorter landing rollouts.
- Mark
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Even though the text fields are empty, the data gets resent with refresh.
I always click on the message center button and then come back to the threads with new posts.
I'm looking for 6s, 5spd, moonroof, sport package, and Bose Audio in Metallic Gray (the only color I can stand.. Wish there was maroon, navy, or hunter green!). Apparently we can't get the moonroof without leather, at least not yet. (Spoke to a friendly Mazda rep in CA, she said maybe March.) If it takes much longer, I may need to consider Subaru or Volkswagen.
I'm in Somerset County, NJ. The salespeople around here seem really rude. Seems they can't answer the question "How much?", they just ask how much you want to pay, explain that the car's new and they can't, try again (repeat, repeat.) I may just go with carsdirect or some such. By the way... Anyone know any info on the type & volume of data Edmunds uses to compute their TMV? These dealers seem to know about it & scoff at it.
Really looking forward to my car though! My little '93 MX-3 GS is running great (though not too good in snow) with 135K miles, but 10 years later I find myself with a wife and 2 kids. :-) (Our other car is a 2000 Jetta GLS by the way.)
-Adam