Anyone try to heel-and-toe in the '6 yet? I'm trying to learn, but it feels awkward. I'm tall and have huge feet, so I'd think the reach would be easy for me (wide feet and all). Anyway...
After following a bloated SUV going 5mph under the speed limit, I turned onto a four-lane road only to see the upcoming intersection already waiting with a green light. It's a long light, and I didn't want to have to be near this guy anymore. This new road dead-ended into yet another, and I needed make a left there. From a stop, I sped up to about 55mph (in 3 seconds flat- I swear- it was amazing!), screamed passed the SUV in the right-most lane, and only tapped the brakes before entering the turn.
Brake hard, then accelerate through the turn. That's how it's supposed to be done.
By the way, at this point the light hadn't even turned yellow yet- I was just having fun with the 'stale' green.
Well, I was lingering on the gas pedal to prevent engine braking continuing to slow me down. I knew I didn't brake enough, because when I tapped the gas in the turn I got a little understeer. The silly 16" stock tires were already cornering at their limit- who'd of guessed? So I took a little off the steering wheel and tapped the brakes again.
I guess I wasn't gentle enough. The rear end slid right around- way more than I expected. The car rotated from facing a curb, passed where I was steering, all the way to facing straight down the open road. In the process, the car slowed from the rear wheels dragging just enough to use throttle again. I straightened the wheel and hit the gas, the rear tires bit, and I darted off in a perfectly straight line- right in my lane.
Some other guy saw this and wanted to race after that, but I was soon turning onto a residential road and that's pretty dumb. I was grinning too stupidly to care about anything else at that point anyway.
I know this story isn't really exciting as far as car acrobatics go, but it is good to know that this daily driver likes to be driven this way daily This car is very tossable. I don't live a boring life by any means, but this car can still highlight my day.
I love this car! Can't wait for my first trip autocrossing. I'm such a rookie.
The Grin: Seems to be a feature included with recent Mazdas. I know I'm guilty of it, mostly on on-ramps. I saw aromas driving his 6 and the glove sure did fit so we can't acquit, and now stretchsje is pulling stunts worthy of Bozo the clown's best performance. I really really doubt it the H car can do this.
Hondas in Fl: They're "supped-up" here too and this is one more reason to stay away from them. I did see a Protege with the STO treatment last nite driving home (just the Alteezas made it look dumb). And BTW, we DON'T say the R word here. Pat will tell you why if you need to know.
Pick-up Lines: That's a good comeback. Unfortunately, it works in the "other side's" favour, so I guess you'll still have to rely on your charm and good looks to do the pick-up
Dinu is correct - the Town Hall policy is that "rice" terms applied to vehicles should not be used.
Another Town Hall policy is that sexual innuendoes do not belong here.
Please do not respond to this message here. If you have comments to make about the appropriateness of any Town Hall policy, they should be emailed to our Community Manager, Sylvia at sylvia@edmunds.com.
I didn't realize the the "r" word was considered dirty. The Audi forum is all about cracking on Hondas, etc. BTW, I did see the post about the 6 with CEL problems. I don't think this is an indication that they "suck", but it does concern me (I was just trying to point out that Honda does not automatically equal reliability anymore). I also know someone who had an '01 Accord with automatic and the tranny went out at 15,000 miles. Honda extended the warranty to 7 years and gave them a new tranny. That was good recovery on their part and that is exactly the problem I have with Audi. Their cars fail and there is no recovery. That's why I'm selling. I hope Mazda will be better :-))))
As I stated earlier (way earlier), the 6 needs to have an identity to separate itself from the rest. Obviously, Mazda can't brag about reliability (i.e. Accord and Camry). And the new Altima just blows everyone else away with its pure power and a nice blend of performance. What does the 6 have that differentiate it from the others ??? So what if it's the best handler out there ? It's not like everyone lives next to an autocross. And so what if it has the best looks ? You know what they say about beauty being only skin keep. Mazda has a problem, boys and girls ! Not that I care, mind you...
Actually, handling, ride and road feel is why I chose the Protege over the Civic/Corolla/Sentra. So handling, ride and road feel do matter to some people. The 6 should be as reliable as the Accord, smaller (and for some buyers who dislike the Camry's HUGE size that's a plus), rides as well as the Accord (perhaps better), has an interior that is very much suitable for a car with sporty aspirations and looks good. What's not to like? That it's slower to 60 by 0.x seconds? That's the only thing people car realistically say the 6 is not as good as the Alti/Accord/Camry. Guess what? The PRO is probable the slowest of the Corolla/Civic/Sentra but it does something these cars didn't do for me: it makes me smile every time I drive it. That is what differentiates the 6 over the competition.
seems to realize there's a problem. From yesterday's Autoweek: "Mazda wants to sustain 6 launch, plans increased marketing, lease support." This will include another advertising blitz in March or April, and a "subvented lease plan on the car." I don't know what subvented means, but they may have realized that their lease deals aren't very good at this point. It says they are targeting 100K units annually--I'd say they have a long way to go. They need to fix those sales disincentives (crazy options packaging) and bring the hatchback out NOW! Oh, sorry, got carried away...
Yes, the lease rates on ALL Mazdas not just the 6 are not that great. If it lowers them and makes ABS standard in the US like in Canada, sales should pick up.
AND it sells the fewest compared to the Corrolla and Civic. By like 220,000. Somebody notices the rough engine and tiresome ride quality in the Pro. Oh yeah and it's slow.
As we all know, the PRO brings a smile to the driver, whereas the Civic does nothing and the Corolla scares everyone in turns. And it's slower, yet I NEVER had trouble passing/merging. NEVER! But that 1.0 second to 60, that's what makes the car.
BTW, the PRO sold more units than the Corolla in Canada last year.
I was gonna suggest adding the P5 numbers to the pro sedan numbers to get a better picture of the overall sales of the protege, but it can't be done. Sales figures in the sedan chart are the exact same as those in the wagons chart. So the numbers must be a combined total.
I see that that autosite does that for other models too. If you look at the coupe charts, you'd see that the Camry Solara sold 31,009 units in Dec 02. But wait, the Camry sedan sold 31,009 units too. Not very helpful to have the total mushed together. The solara is the "top selling" coupe based on sedan numbers. oops, it might be 31,770. That site needs some work.
So is that entry for the 626 the 626 or the 6 or both?
There is no such thing in the car business. Either your product works for the public or they don't buy it. The Pro has an audience but it ain't mass like the others.
MS is not a monopoly yet they may exhibit characteristics of one. The fact remains that there is competition out there as well as competition that makes better products. A Monopoly has no competition.
But vs. Microsoft many companies have to give product away to compete. I mean when no one writes software compatible with your OS what are you gonna do.
It's not a monopoly but it's like owning Boardwalk with a hotel. Your competitors DO NOT want to land there.
That one can't fall into the fallacy of sales = supremacy. Brands are built so that the name becomes more important to a consumer than the product. There will always be people who evaluate the product individually based on its merit, but ever so many more that only purchase a brand.
I had an aftermarket sunroof in my 99 Protege, and it was fine. Didn't leak for 30K miles. I hated the lip on it though.
I would consider an aftermarket sunroof in the 6 if I were buying one, because I can get an outside opening roof that doesn't rob headroom. With the sunroof, I found the 6's headroom a little snug.
My sunroof in the Protege auto closed itself automatically when you turned the car off, had a sunshade, and a lifetime warranty. All for less than $1000 including installation.
...but I can't shake thoughts of awd dancing in my head, which leads me to the A4. Anyone driven the 6 in snow? For that matter, does anyone really need awd? I live in Boston, so we get our fair share of the slippery stuff but I am still not sure I NEED it.
What warped logic. I'd say something about lemmings but those video clips of lemmings following each other off a cliff were apparently staged by some heartless film producers who herded them off.
Something can be a best-seller for many reasons. For the Cavalier and Escort, they were/are cheap transportation. For the Accord, it was diligent effort put in over a long time to win buyers.
Seriously, the Accord isn't crap.
However, there isn't the usual increase in sales rate with the Accord that is typical of a newly-released model, even with the lease deals and dealers willing to bargain (witness TMV being lower than MSRP). Honda deserves the sales based upon the work they've put in over the years. However, even they acknowledge the NA Accord is tailored for the US market as they don't even sell it in Europe or Japan. But, I do bemoan that they've "Buicked" the Accord, which I've thought was a handsomely-styled car (except for a brief period in the early-mid 90s) ever since the mid-80s (I still like the late 80s 3dr hatchback).
The 6 does have the lack of brand recognition as an issue. Give it time. The 626 was on a downward trend. Trends can be hard to reverse (it's easier to go down than up, too).
The 6 is especially at a disadvantage in leasing terms. Lots of folks lease nowadays (almost half, I think), foolish as that is for most. It does let you get "more" vehicle for you money, even though you have to shell-out every month (and have to keep C&C on your insurance too). Makes sense if you change vehicles every few years anyway, but not for others.
Thanks for all the advice from everyone. I have seen some aftermarket roofs installs and they are much better in quality than what they were in the past. In some cases you can't really tell they weren't factory. As mentioned in some previous posts there is an issue about the additional bracing and drains built into the car with a factory roof which makes for a better roof.
The big thing about the after market roof for us is Mazda doesn't warranty it. So any problems you have are your problems. The best warranty is the one you never have to use. So lifetime warranty doesn't mean much if you are 200 miles away from a shop that installs/covers the roof you have. If you had a problem with an aftermarket roof, it could be royal pain in the [non-permissible content removed] to resolve. If you have a problem with the factory roof you know you can go to any Mazda dealer and they will take care of it for you.
We have had a numbers of cars with factory sun/moon roofs and had some issues in some cases that required a trip to the dealer to resolve. So it looks like we are headed back to the Honda dealer unless we can get the car we want with a roof covered by the Mazda warranty.
We wouldn't want a 6 without a moonroof. Why sit in the shade when you can bask in a little sunlight?
Q: Does anyone really need awd? I live in Boston, so we get our fair share of the slippery stuff but I am still not sure I NEED it. A: No! The only time I had trouble with a FWD was when I tried to enter an unplowed parking lot of 1'+ (30cms+) of snow with an 89 Tercel fitted with USED all-seasons. I was in high school and stupid thinking that my Tercel was going to make it when Cherokees were turning around. Had to dig it out BTW. Had no problems with the low-riding Civic and definitely none whatsoever in the Protege (5"+ of ground clearance). I live in Toronto BTW.
I really don't see a need for Quattro and if I were you I'd stay away from Audis. You might wanna do a quick search on "Audi coil problems" on the net just to get an idea of the magnitude of this issue and lack of solution from VW/Audi. I would say the same for any VW product (just ask vocus about his Jetta; although he might not tell you how many rentals he's had).
If you go with the 6 you get the same fun to drive (stick to the I4 engine), good looks, better reliability (I think) and for much less. Of course people won't say "This guy must be loaded", but rather "What's that?" when they see you in a 6 as opposed to an A4.
Well VW must be doing something right, because the new Accord and the 6 both used VW products as targets. Boy, it's nice to drive the original and not a poser or wanna-be.
As far as the 6, I do like the car. But would choose a Passat over it in a heartbeat. Even though the Passat won't handle as good, I would still choose it. I would, however, choose the 6 over the Accord and Camry in a heartbeat.
Thanks, I needed someone to tell me I don't need the awd. I almost strayed to subie land. What is the main reason to go w/ the I4 vs the 6cyl? I've read most of the posts, but some are a bit hard to follow. I row my own gears, so that will help w/ the smaller engine I'm sure. (BTW, is there a way to print out all of the post to a topic - all 7000+ in this one?)
Printing out 7000+ posts AND reading them? Unless you're taking a sabbatical, no
Most people that have driven the I4 5spd of the 6 said that the I4 has a better sound to it, helps in keeping the weight down, hence aids handling and is cheaper.
"Why would anybody buy a BMW for that matter? After all, an Altima is more powerful."
Normally, I wouldn't waste my time responding to this. But today, I'm bored......You're comparing apples to oranges. The BMW is a different class of vehicles and belongs in a different market segment ! And don't make me clarify myself.
I believe maltb was being sarcastic with his remarks. If I'm understanding him correctly, he's saying that while an Altima may have a larger HP rating, the BMW is THE better car to drive.
The point, after all, is that although other cars may have a larger HP rating (or whatever other rating) than the 6, the 6 is still a blast to drive.
But the point is that for the price of a bimmer there are faster cars out there. However, the BMW has a more perfect feel and balance of all its aspects.
In no way would I try to compare the mazda6 to the named vehicle, rather I was pointing out to you, sir, that acceleration is not the end all.
Simple question. Is this a fair price for this car? $22,479.00 plus tax and tags. If not, be kind. Engine: 2.3L DOHC 16-Valve 4-Cylinder w/VVT 5-Speed Manual w/Overdrive Premium Package Leather Seat Upholstery Side Air Bags & Side Air Curtains Anti-Lock Brakes Sport Package Bose Audio Package Comfort Package Power Moonroof
Just announced...VW/Audi is recalling 530,000 VW and Audi cars to replace engine ignition coils that have been failing at a higher than normal rate (I guess that means there is an acceptable failure rate.)
This effects 2001 and 2002 model year cars with the 1.8T engine. Also effected are early production 2003 models.
redkey1: You may want to reconsider your decision to look at an Audi.
I would appreciate the input....there are very few 6MTs around to even compare.
Also, can some one tell me why the appearance package is $900 and Fogs are $250, while sport package with the 17's, gfx and fogs is only $860?
1AP Appearance Package Includes front air dam, side sill extensions, rear bumper skirt and exhaust tips. NOT AVAILABLE with 1SE, MGU. Close This Window
1SE Sport Package Includes 17" alloy wheels, 215/50 R17 V-rated tires (supercedes 16" wheels and tires when ordered with option 2I4 Premium Package), headlight-integrated halogen fog lights, dual exhaust with oval shaped bright tips, sculpted front air dam and rear apron, side sill extensions, rear spoiler with integrated brake light, black interior trim, electro-luminescent gauges with red illumination, titanium colored power window switch panels. INCLUDES FOG. NOT AVAILABLE with MGU
Does Mazda really want you to get the stupid spoiler that bad? Am I missing something? I would love the sport pkg w/o the spoiler but I can't see spending more $ to piece it out.
I take the train back and forth to work and I could sift thru them in a weeks time I am sure, but way too hard to try and print out 10 posts at a time...there should be a way to do it. Host?
IMHO...No. Based on the info provided, it appears you are paying about $1,500 under MSRP, and about $925 over invoice. There have been many people on this board that have been quoted prices at less than $500 over invoice. I was quoted a price at less than $400 over invoice.
BUT, since you are looking at a manual tranny, which has less of a supply, this may be a good price.
The 4cyl feels gutless when floored, but the front end of the car is lighter feeling when cornering hard. The 6cyl is adequate, no more. Both had automatic shift.
Comments
After following a bloated SUV going 5mph under the speed limit, I turned onto a four-lane road only to see the upcoming intersection already waiting with a green light. It's a long light, and I didn't want to have to be near this guy anymore. This new road dead-ended into yet another, and I needed make a left there. From a stop, I sped up to about 55mph (in 3 seconds flat- I swear- it was amazing!), screamed passed the SUV in the right-most lane, and only tapped the brakes before entering the turn.
Brake hard, then accelerate through the turn. That's how it's supposed to be done.
By the way, at this point the light hadn't even turned yellow yet- I was just having fun with the 'stale' green.
Well, I was lingering on the gas pedal to prevent engine braking continuing to slow me down. I knew I didn't brake enough, because when I tapped the gas in the turn I got a little understeer. The silly 16" stock tires were already cornering at their limit- who'd of guessed? So I took a little off the steering wheel and tapped the brakes again.
I guess I wasn't gentle enough. The rear end slid right around- way more than I expected. The car rotated from facing a curb, passed where I was steering, all the way to facing straight down the open road. In the process, the car slowed from the rear wheels dragging just enough to use throttle again. I straightened the wheel and hit the gas, the rear tires bit, and I darted off in a perfectly straight line- right in my lane.
Some other guy saw this and wanted to race after that, but I was soon turning onto a residential road and that's pretty dumb. I was grinning too stupidly to care about anything else at that point anyway.
I know this story isn't really exciting as far as car acrobatics go, but it is good to know that this daily driver likes to be driven this way daily
I love this car! Can't wait for my first trip autocrossing. I'm such a rookie.
Hondas in Fl: They're "supped-up" here too and this is one more reason to stay away from them. I did see a Protege with the STO treatment last nite driving home (just the Alteezas made it look dumb). And BTW, we DON'T say the R word here. Pat will tell you why if you need to know.
Pick-up Lines: That's a good comeback. Unfortunately, it works in the "other side's" favour, so I guess you'll still have to rely on your charm and good looks to do the pick-up
Dinu
Another Town Hall policy is that sexual innuendoes do not belong here.
Please do not respond to this message here. If you have comments to make about the appropriateness of any Town Hall policy, they should be emailed to our Community Manager, Sylvia at sylvia@edmunds.com.
LOL I kill me.
BTW, I did see the post about the 6 with CEL problems. I don't think this is an indication that they "suck", but it does concern me (I was just trying to point out that Honda does not automatically equal reliability anymore).
I also know someone who had an '01 Accord with automatic and the tranny went out at 15,000 miles. Honda extended the warranty to 7 years and gave them a new tranny. That was good recovery on their part and that is exactly the problem I have with Audi. Their cars fail and there is no recovery. That's why I'm selling. I hope Mazda will be better :-))))
Dinu
Dinu
http://www.autosite.com/editoria/asmr/svsedan.asp
BTW, the PRO sold more units than the Corolla in Canada last year.
Dinu
It handles great but is slow and has a slightly rough ride in a segment where they really don't care.
And the Corrolla in the ten car comparo was the faster than the Pro.
The Civic sold more in Canada by like 20,000 units which is significant in the smaller market there.
But you are right about the Pro handling great. Loved the handling when we had ours.
BTW, I think I'm going to head over to the local dealership and check out the 6 today!!
and Gee, I'm just using the same high level logic about sales that you use constantly. Any product can be a market dominator; just look at Microsoft.
I see that that autosite does that for other models too. If you look at the coupe charts, you'd see that the Camry Solara sold 31,009 units in Dec 02. But wait, the Camry sedan sold 31,009 units too. Not very helpful to have the total mushed together. The solara is the "top selling" coupe based on sedan numbers. oops, it might be 31,770. That site needs some work.
So is that entry for the 626 the 626 or the 6 or both?
Just an Econ 101 refresher.
It's not a monopoly but it's like owning Boardwalk with a hotel. Your competitors DO NOT want to land there.
I would consider an aftermarket sunroof in the 6 if I were buying one, because I can get an outside opening roof that doesn't rob headroom. With the sunroof, I found the 6's headroom a little snug.
My sunroof in the Protege auto closed itself automatically when you turned the car off, had a sunshade, and a lifetime warranty. All for less than $1000 including installation.
What warped logic. I'd say something about lemmings but those video clips of lemmings following each other off a cliff were apparently staged by some heartless film producers who herded them off.
Something can be a best-seller for many reasons. For the Cavalier and Escort, they were/are cheap transportation. For the Accord, it was diligent effort put in over a long time to win buyers.
Seriously, the Accord isn't crap.
However, there isn't the usual increase in sales rate with the Accord that is typical of a newly-released model, even with the lease deals and dealers willing to bargain (witness TMV being lower than MSRP). Honda deserves the sales based upon the work they've put in over the years. However, even they acknowledge the NA Accord is tailored for the US market as they don't even sell it in Europe or Japan. But, I do bemoan that they've "Buicked" the Accord, which I've thought was a handsomely-styled car (except for a brief period in the early-mid 90s) ever since the mid-80s (I still like the late 80s 3dr hatchback).
The 6 does have the lack of brand recognition as an issue. Give it time. The 626 was on a downward trend. Trends can be hard to reverse (it's easier to go down than up, too).
The 6 is especially at a disadvantage in leasing terms. Lots of folks lease nowadays (almost half, I think), foolish as that is for most. It does let you get "more" vehicle for you money, even though you have to shell-out every month (and have to keep C&C on your insurance too). Makes sense if you change vehicles every few years anyway, but not for others.
The big thing about the after market roof for us is Mazda doesn't warranty it. So any problems you have are your problems. The best warranty is the one you never have to use. So lifetime warranty doesn't mean much if you are 200 miles away from a shop that installs/covers the roof you have. If you had a problem with an aftermarket roof, it could be royal pain in the [non-permissible content removed] to resolve. If you have a problem with the factory roof you know you can go to any Mazda dealer and they will take care of it for you.
We have had a numbers of cars with factory sun/moon roofs and had some issues in some cases that required a trip to the dealer to resolve. So it looks like we are headed back to the Honda dealer unless we can get the car we want with a roof covered by the Mazda warranty.
We wouldn't want a 6 without a moonroof. Why sit in the shade when you can bask in a little sunlight?
A: No.
Q: Does anyone really need awd? I live in Boston, so we get our fair share of the slippery stuff but I am still not sure I NEED it.
A: No! The only time I had trouble with a FWD was when I tried to enter an unplowed parking lot of 1'+ (30cms+) of snow with an 89 Tercel fitted with USED all-seasons. I was in high school and stupid thinking that my Tercel was going to make it when Cherokees were turning around. Had to dig it out BTW. Had no problems with the low-riding Civic and definitely none whatsoever in the Protege (5"+ of ground clearance). I live in Toronto BTW.
I really don't see a need for Quattro and if I were you I'd stay away from Audis. You might wanna do a quick search on "Audi coil problems" on the net just to get an idea of the magnitude of this issue and lack of solution from VW/Audi. I would say the same for any VW product (just ask vocus about his Jetta; although he might not tell you how many rentals he's had).
If you go with the 6 you get the same fun to drive (stick to the I4 engine), good looks, better reliability (I think) and for much less. Of course people won't say "This guy must be loaded", but rather "What's that?" when they see you in a 6 as opposed to an A4.
Dinu
As far as the 6, I do like the car. But would choose a Passat over it in a heartbeat. Even though the Passat won't handle as good, I would still choose it. I would, however, choose the 6 over the Accord and Camry in a heartbeat.
Thanks.
Most people that have driven the I4 5spd of the 6 said that the I4 has a better sound to it, helps in keeping the weight down, hence aids handling and is cheaper.
Here, I'll do it for you.
Dinu
So, from those that have driven both, what do you have to say?
Dinu
Normally, I wouldn't waste my time responding to this. But today, I'm bored......You're comparing apples to oranges. The BMW is a different class of vehicles and belongs in a different market segment ! And don't make me clarify myself.
The point, after all, is that although other cars may have a larger HP rating (or whatever other rating) than the 6, the 6 is still a blast to drive.
In no way would I try to compare the mazda6 to the named vehicle, rather I was pointing out to you, sir, that acceleration is not the end all.
Engine: 2.3L DOHC 16-Valve 4-Cylinder w/VVT
5-Speed Manual w/Overdrive
Premium Package
Leather Seat Upholstery
Side Air Bags & Side Air Curtains
Anti-Lock Brakes
Sport Package
Bose Audio Package
Comfort Package
Power Moonroof
This effects 2001 and 2002 model year cars with the 1.8T engine. Also effected are early production 2003 models.
redkey1: You may want to reconsider your decision to look at an Audi.
Also, can some one tell me why the appearance package is $900 and Fogs are $250, while sport package with the 17's, gfx and fogs is only $860?
1AP Appearance Package
Includes front air dam, side sill extensions, rear bumper skirt and exhaust tips. NOT AVAILABLE with 1SE, MGU. Close This Window
1SE Sport Package
Includes 17" alloy wheels, 215/50 R17 V-rated tires (supercedes 16" wheels and tires when ordered with option 2I4 Premium Package), headlight-integrated halogen fog lights, dual exhaust with oval shaped bright tips, sculpted front air dam and rear apron, side sill extensions, rear spoiler with integrated brake light, black interior trim, electro-luminescent gauges with red illumination, titanium colored power window switch panels. INCLUDES FOG. NOT AVAILABLE with MGU
Does Mazda really want you to get the stupid spoiler that bad? Am I missing something? I would love the sport pkg w/o the spoiler but I can't see spending more $ to piece it out.
I take the train back and forth to work and I could sift thru them in a weeks time I am sure, but way too hard to try and print out 10 posts at a time...there should be a way to do it. Host?
BUT, since you are looking at a manual tranny, which has less of a supply, this may be a good price.