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Comments
I wonder if CR will test the i or the s model?
Saying that the engine is based on a ford design is fine. Saying that it was derived/developed from a ford design is fine. Saying that Ford is supplying the engine is just wrong, IMO.
But that's not their only mistake. CR says you can get a Subie WRX with a 6 spd manual.
And their write up of the 6 in another part of the magazine makes no mention of MTs for the 6 at all. It says the i "comes with" a 4 spd auto and the s "comes with" a 5spd auto.
Their lack of precision is starting to irritate me.
I'm going to call them again today. They're very nice on the phone. We had tried to do most of this via e-mail, but our e-mail system at home isn't working very well these days.
Silvercrown... if you're putting "smooth ride" as your priority you'd better hope a dealer will give you the chance for a nice long test drive. I was in an Impala before the 6. I would say the Imp was a much LOUDER ride (lots of road noise, even with better tires) but it might have been less bumpy.
My Mom's Avalon is the most smooth ride I've driven. However, it handles like a boat...
Depends on what you like.
I'm pretty sure that if I buy a 6, it will be the non-Sport version, even though I think the Sport version looks good. Perhaps I'm different than the target demographic, but personally, I like the way it looks. And IMHO, it looks good without the Sport Package too. It's just a good looking car, plain and simple.
I don't need to "turn on a dime" but I often feel that my Camry is just a little too soft for me at times, even though I do appreciate the smooth ride. Maybe I've got a split personality or something. LOL
I also suspected that by the time I added the options that I would probably want to the 6i, I might be very close in price to the 6s. I'd have to consider that more seriously if I decide to do this.
Of course, the real proof will be in the test drive. Whenever I get to that point, I will post my impressions here. Meanwhile, keep the comments coming!
I'm not sure that I put smooth ride as a top priority, my main concern is reliability, which I believe the Mazda 6 has. I know that I will sacrifice some of the smooth ride for better handling and I'm prepared to make that compromise if I'll be happier with the car overall. I just don't want to swing to the opposite end of the spectrum and be uncomfortable on these horrible roads. So it is a consideration for me.
I'd like to get some real world responses, but ultimately, the only way I'll know if this is the car for me is when I drive it myself. And hopefully it will be a nice long test drive so I can really get the feel of the car. I'll probably test drive one when the weather gets better around here.
Meanwhile, I do appreciate comments from owners and/or drivers of the 6. Gives me more to think about.
Do you not perceive a difference between ford-based and ford-supplied?
To me ford-based means that Mazda took a Ford product and adapted, modified or reconfigured it to meet their needs. Ford-supplied means they took a ford engine and put it in their car. To me there is a very large difference between the too.
From the previous discussions on this board, we know how much Ford there is in the V6. The block. End of story. Everything else is Mazda.
Obviously CR doesn't care enough to get it right.
Bad salespeople: In my lifetime I have interacted with 4 salespeople and none of them were bad at all. I went to a Honda dealership once and the guy was very helpful. The dealer where I bought the Acura from the sales person knew his stuff. The Mazda dealership I went to I dealed with 2 salesman. I dealed with one salesman when I went to look at the car and one when I bought the car. None of them were bad. If I think the salesman is bad I'll either get another salesman to help me or go to another dealership. I have heard bad things about Mazda dealerships but as pointed out before Mazda doesn't have a good dealer network so that could have something to do with it.
As far as CR-write up on the 6 is concerned I could care less. A Ford Engine is used in the MPV and CR once rated the MPV higher in reliability than Honda's mini-van so its not a big deal.
Either way, the word 'Ford' on anything in the car will make some people want nothing to do with it.
If you are interested in ride quality, try the 6 without the sport package. It's a pretty amazing compromise between nice ride and nice handling. The wheels on the sport package gives up a bit of ride smoothness for improved handling.
IMHO, the non-sport Mazda6 rides better than the new Accord, although it might not be as quiet.
Good luck with your search.
My grandfather hated Ford. Everything he owned was a GM product. My parents had some horrible experiences with GM products in the 80's and that makes me want to avoid GM at all costs. They also had a Toyota and a Mercury that did very well.
I have no "feel" for Mazda. No one in my family has ever owned one. So I am hesitant to be the first to jump into Mazda territory. Prior to the release of the 6, I hadn't paid much to Mazdas at all.
I can see why people who have a negative feel for Ford will avoid the Mazda6 even though CR says it should be a reliable car. It's same way I am not interested in the Pontiac Vibe, but I like the Matrix. I can't get past the notion that somehow Pontiac will screw something up.
OK, bad advice, but everyone makes lemons.
I think CR did Mazda a big favor by putting the 6 on the cover. Now only if Mazda could get their Marketing in order, the 6 should start flying out of the showrooms.
I opted for the more subtle lip spoiler myself:
http://users.adelphia.net/%7Edennya/Mazda6/index.htm
My first new car was a Ford and it had paint problems only. The dealer was a peach about fixing the paint problems (under warranty) and off I went. Happy camper.
My two Chrysler products (one mine, one the hubby's) were TERRIBLE and mostly because several dealers could never quite fix all the electrical and mechanical problems. Both cars were recalled a few times. Sheesh. So now I maintain I won't buy a Chryler product again. And as sure as I'll never drive them again, I'm also positive that out there somewhere are folks who SWEAR by their Dodges or PT cruisers... I hope they have better luck than I had.
My Impala was flawless. Only took it in once for "check engine light" and they replaced a sensor. Happy.
I will probably end up judging my Mazda by the service I receive. Hopefully I won't have much reason to "test" them...
The new suspension places the struts and coil springs almost horizontally, which allows the springs greater travel thereby softening and damping bumps. The new design also eleminates having the strut towers take up trunk space providing a much larger cargo area.
Canadian Driver says the 6 has as good a ride as its competitors. They tested the 6i with the 16-inch wheels.
If you are going to load it up (down) with options consider the 6s, the difference is surprisingly less than one would expect. One way I figured it the difference was $960 more for the 6s.
When I test drove the 6S I found the ride very good compared to my 2001 Protegé. The ride was the main thing I wanted to know about. Unlike the Protegé's hopping on smooth roads, the 6S was rock solid, smooth and quiet. BTW, the turning circle is 38.7 feet. It obviously won't make sharp U-turns like the smaller Protegé. A small compromise considering a car loaded with so many standard features, top-handling, and good ride. Not to mention the most beautiful body on the road.
fowler3
In time, the Mazda6 will become one of the most desirable mid-size cars on the market. It will keep owners happy far longer than competitors' cars, which tend to lose their appeal when the newness wears off and owners start finding things they don't like about them.
Mazda6 owners may, in time, find little things they don't like, but will not part with their 6's because of all the good they would be giving up.
The Mazda6 is not mainstream, it is a niche car with a great future. This is what makes a car lengendary. Legends are not over-night successes -- fads are.
fowler3
To say they're biased and then point out that they're BUYING cars to test is a contradiction in itself. CR is the ONLY publication I know that reviews cars that buys said cars through normal channels rather than having one-off press cars supplied by the mfgs/importers. And they are virtually the only publication that reviews cars without accepting advertising. Given this, I'm not sure where their bias comes from. If you prefer to get your "unbiased" information from the car magazines, go for it.
And wow, aren't we sensitive about Ford-supplied vs. Ford-derived? There is a lot of Ford in today's Mazda. Get over it.
- Mark
I trust CR on reliability and quality. Also, their cargo and passenger space ratings. They also provide more "real-life" acceleration data (most folks won't redline their engines or fry their clutches to get snappy starts). They also provide data on bumper durability and real-world turning circle (bumper to bumper, not curb to curb) dimensions.
I'd go by their reliability data before something like JD Powers, which can rig any poll to get any answer they want. I, for one, never believed Chrysler products were reliable just because some JD Powers poll said they were (initial quality, mind you, which I think covered the first 60 or 90 days). CR initially gave their "Recommended" rating to the LH cars their first year. They retracted that after their test cars started rattling and exhibiting a number of quality/reliability issues.
Personally, we've always consulted CR whenever we've made a big-money purchase. And as best as I can remember, we've never regretted it.
Before I knew about CR, I'd bought a '84 Cougar when it was used, 4 years old. Was the worst car I've owned. I had nothing but troubles with it beginning six months after I got it. Took it to the dealer several different times, they'd fix it, and a few months later it would start acting up again. I was SO GLAD to get rid of that piece of junk. And lo and behold, when I later looked at reliability ratings for that year Cougar in CR, everything that had a black circle was what I had troubles with. A friend of mine, too - whatever troubles she had with an older Sentra were what had gotten bad ratings in CR. So when I was looking for my current car, I found the car, liked the looks of it and how it drove, and consulted CR. Got nothing but Excellent or Good ratings all the way down, and my car as lived up to it. By the way, it's a MAZDA MX-6.
So personally, I trust CR's rating system and reports.
I think they do make a contribution to car shoppers but they are just an information source that should be considered as such and not a bible.
But any magazine that puts a Mazda on the cover can't be all that bad!!
We have had luck with the rear wing and was thinking about adding a few lip spoilers to some i models.
skyray: Excellent pics!! Thanks for sharing them. I saw them earlier but had forgotten who posted them. Your car looks awesome! I like the lip spoiler too. I wish I could see it in person. You don't happen to live in Michigan, do you? Just kidding.
fowler3: Thanks for the explanation about the Mazda 6 suspension setup. It makes a lot of sense and I'm glad to hear that my concern about rough ride quality is probably unfounded, especially with the non-sport version. If the price difference is so small, I probably would look at the 6s. And I agree, the 6 is the most beautifully styled midsized car out there. I really want one!!! ;-)
I also liked what you said about legends and fads, it was right on the money. You were also so right about long-term buyers' remorse. I loved my Camry when I first got it, but I seem to be losing that lovin' feeling and I can't say why because it's a good car. I have no reason to like it any less, I just feel like I'm missing something that I can't quite put my finger on.
I just gotta test drive a non-sport 6s now!
Thanks for the comments.
But I'm sure lots of others will like the Lip better - it'd sure be nice to actually SEE the option on an actual car, though. That measly little pic in the 6 brochure of just the rear end with the spoiler doesn't give you ANY idea of what the whole car would look like.
I do think the break in made a big difference in sound and performance. When I test drove a v6 (not the one I bought), I gunned it from a stop leading to a freeway on-ramp and was disappointed by the engine sound, and wasn't really impressed by the acceleration (automatic by the way). I can't really describe the sound, but it just didn't "growl" like I hoped, and frankly, I thought it might be slower than my '99 Miata.
Today though...WOW! I blasted away from a stop light, and couldn't believe I was doing over 70 very quickly! Much more impressive than when I test drove one. I then tested the brakes (!) as the speed limit was 45 and they hauled me down like it was nothing. Also, past posters have been right, this thing just screams "Yeah!!..Faster!!!" with the engine sound! What a rush!
I've said it before, and I'll say it again. I haven't regretted buying the automatic for a second. As of today, I'm even more convinced I made the right choice.
Chris
I'm curious if anybody has had an experience with the heated seats not performing as one would expect.....
I wonder if the seats are linked to the climate control system at all.
ant
Marla, a BONNEVILLE? Okay, I can't let that stand. Pistols or swords?
Sorry there's no full side-on pic. When I shot the pics, I couldn't get far enough away on the side to shoot from that angle -- glass-slick ice surrounding the car.
Now the car's dirty from road muck. :-) But I'll try to shoot one after tomorrow's snow has passed.
I also think the 17 in wheels really improve the look. I'm not sure what tires they are using on the 16's, but I looked at them the other night at the dealer & they look the opposite of sporty (not the wheel as much as the tire). The tire has that rounded sidewall that looks like iit should be on a much more boring car. Anyone else see this & think that?
But I did notice how loud the wipers were at the bottom of their travel.. a loud "chunk" ever time, which got annoying. I compared it to my old Camry, which doesn't make that noise at all.
Anybody else notice this?
Went for an oil change for my PRO and asked for a test drive. They only had this model for test drives and off I went.
Ride: Superb! Nor harsh, not cushy - just perfect. Like the A4 I drove. A perfect blend of sport and comfort.
Noise: You can hear the engine, but not the road. I took it to 4000RPMs but did not hear anything exemplary as far as that V6 engine noise goes...
Braking: I still can't get over how well this car stops. Took it to 25mph and hit the brakes - it stopped and the ABS kicked in in the last second before the stop. No brake fade whatsoever. And it stopped EXTREMELY quickly!!!
Sport AT: Works quite well to up and downshift. Only problem was shifting 1->2 as it took a long time to do it, but other upshifts and ALL downshifts were prompt. First time I drove a Sport AT car: not bad, but not worth the $1000 you save from the MT.
Acceleration: It's a V6! Coming from a 4cyl AT PRO, it's worlds apart.
Cornering: Little body lean as expected, but the car goes where you want it to go without fuss. It's larger than the PRO, so the PRO feels "tighter", yet the 6 has so much more going for it, that I have to say it is THE ultimate FWD midsize, better than the 2000 Maxima SE 5spd or 99 2.8 A4 I drove a few weeks ago.
Interior fit and finish: I love it! I like the silver dash (although it took me a few seconds to find what I was looking for).
Another thing: EVERYONE was staring at this car on the road. It was yellow and great-looking after all. Got some positive smiles from other drivers.
This car really embodies Mazda's Zoom-Zoom philosophy quite well!
Dinu
I tried to build a car with side air bags in a non sports pkg 6s version, but no go.. I'm assuming you have to have that sports package in order to have that extra protection.
nice review dinu - yea, I think that yellow looks super sharp, but I couldn't see getting it myself.
I think the AT sports shift is pretty neat, but not perfect, as you say.. I think it's especially attractive for those who don't drive manual already. Gear rower folk, for the most part, will thumb there noses at it, as demonstrated by many on this board.
I think CR's auto reliability ratings are the most useful ones around, and they have some other helpful information, like real-world MPG (much more accurate than the EPA, in my experience). But I certainly wouldn't buy a car just based on their brief reviews. I think they try to target their reviews to the average American buyer, so it's useful for some people.
They did the 6 a huge favor by putting it on the cover of their auto buying issue. That more than outweighs any negative connotations of the Ford engine comment. I'm surprised they rated the 6 highly, because I thought they would find it too stiff and not big enough to be a good all-around family car.
Dinu
I was wondering, doesn't it clash with the silver center stack?
Does anyone have a picture?
I'm asking because I'm most likely getting a 2004 sport 6s & might want beige instead of black interior (maybe they'll change their stance on automatic black with the sport package next year)