Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!
Options
Popular New Cars
Popular Used Sedans
Popular Used SUVs
Popular Used Pickup Trucks
Popular Used Hatchbacks
Popular Used Minivans
Popular Used Coupes
Popular Used Wagons
Comments
FWIW, my dad's car looks like new, no trace of the vandalism.
-juice
Ralph
PS That's how I've removed every mark on the lower cladding - minus actual chips. BTW, this trick DOES NOT work on the upper body paint - it will leave fine scratches!!!
Alland
You are rotating front to back only, correct?
Craig
Alland
My car is *very* sensitive to PSI, even a pound or two difference left to right will cause it to pull to one side. I'm assuming you have checked that and adjusted? I just rotated my tires and had to add air to the former rear ones and remove air from the former front ones. Just another thing to consider.
utahsteve
Greg
I am not really happy about this resolution. My independent mechanics (two different shops) both say this coolant conditioner fix is temporary and that the gasket will eventually fail. I mentioned this to the SOA rep. He says SOA stands behind this conditioner solution. I said why isn't the extended warranty greater than 100,000 miles. The SOA rep says that "getting a car to 100,00 miles is good and that all bets are off at 100,000 miles".
Can you believe this!!! I told him that I expect a car to last well past 100M miles! I mentioned that my wife had a bad experience (1996) with a previous Subaru (2 door sedan) that blew a head gasket at 130M miles resulting in a severely damaged engine. We eventually came back to Subaru in 2000. We are not so sure we will be life-long Subbie owners at this point. We are thinking maybe it is prudent to dump the car before it reaches 100M miles.
At 3pm, the SOA Rep said he would call the dealer to discuss the condition of the gasket and get back to me. I am still waiting at 5:30pm...
Any and all comments welcome...
-John
We've been testing it out and it works wonderfully. If you use the conditioner when you do your coolant flushes, you will more than likely not experience a head gasket failure.
This addresses seepage/or leaks around the head gasket. You should never end up with major engine damage because of a minor leak. If the leak went on for a long time and the vehicle is driven "hot" or without coolant, you can end up with engine damage. Just make sure you do your routine maintenance and you should be fine.
Try to understand - our obligation when a car goes out of warranty is over. There are a lot of manufacturer's who look at issues like this and walk away from the customer and the problem. If we behaved like that, we know we would lose customers, so we track failure information and try to do what we can - while being fiscally responsible. If the head gasket was replaced, you would still have the same expansion and contraction that contributes to the seepage. This conditioner addresses that issue. We're trying to do the right thing for customer's because we are seeing a high frequency of these leaks. It isn't a recall or anything safety related. It's just trying to address the problem.
I'm confident that this will take care of the problem. If it doesn't, you have the warranty in place to help. It's backing up our confident position on this conditioner.
I'm not sure what you are waiting to hear from our Rep. above what they've already said. I'll check in with them tomorrow morning.
Thanks!
Patti
Len (case # 585945)
Thanks!
Patti
I checked with the dealer and they said that they had never heard of this happening. Has anyone experienced this with their Outback. I have a 2002 VDC model.
Patti
PS I'm sorry that happened. It must have rattled you quite a bit.
I was going to bring in my 01 Outback next week for the 3-year cooling system flush. Do you have a service bulletin or service directive number pertaining to the cooling system conditioner? I would like to ensure that this is added when I bring my car in.
I'd suggest you reset the ECU if you were ever stranded, but that would delete any codes so you'd never know what happened. Plus it's working well now.
-juice
I'll post details on the bulletin this weekend when I get a few minutes "quiet time".
Patti
Also, I hope my car is one that gets covered under the upcoming service program regarding head gaskets. From earlier phone conversations with SOA and your #2664 post above, I was told and given the impression that my 2000 OBW would be offered the extended 8yr/100,000 mile warranty for head gasket and related failures.
Just today, SOA informed me that only certain 1999-2002 OBW would be offered this extended warranty. The selection criteria was not known by the SOA Rep. Sounds like Subaru may have an idea as to the root cause of these HG issues.
Since my OBW has an HG leak, I can only keep my fingers crossed that I am included in this program.
-John
Thanks again,
Rob
I've seen some comments on here about burning oil and such, which I don't really understand why it would be different for the boxer.
IS there anything different or better - is servicing easier/more diffult?
those kinds of opinions are what I'm looking for.
The VQ has better access, the engine sits higher, above the tranny and diffy. Plus the V shape put the spark plus up where you can access them. BUt a lot of weight sits very high up, look at the position of the engine block and how it affects the center of gravity.
Subaru puts the boxer engine in front of the trans. It's very low down, if you look the top of the block falls below the top of the tire. That keeps the center of gravity low.
The trade-off is tougher access. To get to the plugs you might have to remove the intake or the windshield wiper fluid container, or both. Fortunately it's not as hard as it sounds. That's why they use long-life plugs.
All the routine stuff is accessible, all fluid lids are bright yellow for easy visibility. I've done all my own service, and I don't even have a shop manual. So it's not that tough.
The most common problems? #1 would be wheel bearings, but only on Foresters up to 2002 and Imprezas up to 2001. The Legacy has been good and newer designs have been good. They seem to have corrected this.
#2 among serious issues would be the head gaskets on the EJ25 engines, but Subaru stretched warranty coverage to 8 years/100k miles. 2002 and later have had far less frequency than the 1999-2001s.
With that said, there are 4 Subarus with the EJ25 in my family, that's 8 head gaskets, and zero leaks.
Also, the H6 engine has not been affected, nor has the turbo engines in the XT or Baja. Those do have a different block design with a semi-closed deck. They seem to be very robust and no one has reported any sort of failure with those up to now. So the H6 or turbo are worthy upgrades even if you're just looking for a robust/reliable design.
Good luck shopping.
-juice
Greg
The H6 fires more like a straight-6 and is less unique feeling/sounding. However the H6 is very smooth. I forget the relative rankings, but I think the H6 is up there with the V12 and straight-6 as the smoothest engines. Certainly smoother than a V6 or V8.
I've had four Subarus, and none have consumed any oil between changes. In fact, I don't even check the oil between changes now! (which is probably a bad habit to get into). Other than a little difficulty getting to the spark plugs (which have a 60000 mile interval on the H6) the engines are super easy to maintain and work on. As Juice already mentioned, the compact size and layout of the boxer really helps keep the COG low, which improves handling and packaging quite a bit. if you look at Subaru's overall engine/transmission/drivetrain layout, you can see how well it is packaged. It really is an engineering marvel (and I say that as an engineer!).
Definitely test drive a Subaru to get a feel for the engine. Any model with an H4 and 5-spd will give you a good example of the fun rumbly side of the boxer, while the H6/auto cars will feel super smooth and refined.
Craig
I also believe a number of light aircraft engines are of boxer design.
Jim
Robert.
Patti
Robert.
You may want to wait until Wednesday or Thursday next week because volume on the phones will be high on Tuesday (the first day after a holiday).
Thanks - I hope it works out for you!
Patti (Subaru Team)
I just don't want you to think I'm ignoring you.
Thanks for your patience!
Patti
9/8 CEL - replace coil and wires $409
12/8 Complete loss of power on a hill - NTF
12/17 CEL - Fuel induction service $100
1/12 CEL - Idle Air Control Valve $125
1/19 CEL - Valve replacement $600 (@ 1/2 price)
2/3 Alternator and battery $257
The car spent days between 12/8 and 12/17 in the shop, and all except one day in the shop between 1/12 and 1/19. Car has 99K miles, was bought new by me and always serviced at our local Subaru dealer. All of this trouble happened over less than 4000 miles. From the first CEL to now, every time we brought it in they fixed something, but we got rough running and another CEL pretty quickly. That means one of two things to me - either they are fixing the wrong things, or EVERY time I take it in there are two things wrong - the one they fixed and the one they still haven't. Car is running fine since last rcvd (fingers crossed here), but I spent about $2K on it in the last 12 months. I should have bought a new car (and not a Subaru, based on this). My confidence in the dealer is now very low. I suspect they screwed something up in the valve service (requires engine removal, according to them) that destroyed the alternator. Is this car waiting to massively fail, and should I sell now while it's running? I expected to get lots more miles out of it than this with better reliability. Our 95 Honda had no unscheduled maintenance over its lifetime. Any thoughts?
Was there any significant problem associated with the first event other than a CEL? Because a CEL by itself is no reason to replace the coil pack and wires -- you'd have to be experiencing a rough engine and/or loss of power (possibly intermittant) before going in that direction. On the other end of the list, the car would have to be blowing smoke and/or burning oil before I'd go for a valve job.
I suspect there's something wrong that they have not properly diagnosed, and it's unfortunate you have to fund their research! This is a case where I would not blame Subaru, but would instead have issues with the dealer.
Craig
Kind of sounds like my '93 Toyota. Ran virtually trouble free for 85k miles until '01, then cost me $2.5k in a likewise narrow window for a variety of problems. How do you predict what will come next? The 'problems Gods' might be satisfied, and you might run for another year or two and recoup the outlay, or there might be another headache waiting for you around the corner.
If you liked the car otherwise but are beginning to feel uneasy about it, then it is time to trade towards another Subaru while it still has some value.
Steve
The first CEL svc writeup says "MIL perform select monitor code for misfire test" & "System needs coil and wires". Not a lot of info there to me. I can't recall if it ran rough, but it probably did for a moment (at this point I didn't realize it was the start of a string of problems). For the last one, it ran rough for 1/2 mile, then cleared - svc says "Exhaust valves not seating properly due to carbon."
We also had oil pump seals done at 47K and 65K miles, and leaking valve cover gaskets at 73K.
I do think the dealer represents Subaru, though - they are my point of contact. In Glenford (my town) it's the difference between 20 minutes and 35 minutes to go to the next nearest dealer - but that might be a good investment.
As to trading for another Subaru - I looked at new "B"-six models a year ago when I bought a used RX300. (Also drove Murano, Passat, A4, CRV...) Subaru was too much money for not enough value above the 4 for me. Plus, with a service history like this, my brand loyalty is not high. But you put your finger on the heart of it - get out now while it's running well, or hang on and hope? Tim
Patti
Customer Dealer Services
Subaru of America, Inc.
P. O. Box 6000
Cherry Hill, NJ 08034
Attn: Lana
Lana handles most of our correspondence and she reports to me. If you address it to her, I know I'll get a chance to review the letter and docs. Just let her know that you are sending it to her at my request.
Thanks! I appreciate the opportunity.
Patti
Craig
The battery is a wear and tear item, you're lucky to get 5+ years out of one IMO.
Also, $2000 sounds like a lot, but look at it this way - it's 5 car payments. If it stretched the life of the vehicle more than 5 months (which it did) then you still come out ahead by waiting.
-juice
Is AC supposed to be running when it's that cold?
I think they do it to remove moisture from the air, i.e. dehumidify. But I didn't think it was supposed to come under when it's below 35.
-juice
Both my outside mirrors are damaged; I have 1998 OB with the power, non-heated, black solid mount. What I want to do is get replacements that will fit but are FOLDABLE (yes I know about the potential wind noise prob). So I have 2 questions:
(1) In 1995 Sub apparently still offered folding power mirrors on at least some Legacy models, maybe OB also. Will these fit the 1996-1999 cars? Some 3d party suppliers offer the 1995 replacements but not after that.
(2) The latest (2000 and newer) folding mirrors are nicer, larger. The outside mounting is different shape, tho' (door sheet metal looks the same except for one small part), but I can't tell if perhaps these new mirrors might also fit the 1995-1999 models, the triple screw mount positions seem the same; maybe some insulation might have to be added.
Would very much appreciate input from someone who knows for sure.
Basically there is too much play in the pedal until throttle is applied. Does this sound like something that requires immediate attention or can I wait until I bring my car for its usual service in about a month?
Brian