Subaru Legacy/Outback Wagons Maintenance & Repair

capriracer1 · February 2004

None of the tire manufacturers approve a plug as an acceptable form of repair. And certainly 2 repairs is not condoned regardless of the type of repair.

Plugs have a tendancy to leak more than they should and they may be fine today and develop a leak at a later date.

Recommend you replace that tire.

ebony5 · February 2004

Can I replace just the one tire or must all four be replaced seeing that the tread is still good. From reading various postings over the years I get the impression AWD vehicles require that all tires must be replaced. Looked at Tire Rack reviews ratings in category are 1 Michelin Hydro Edge- 2Mich Harmony- 3Goodyear aguatread- 4 Bf Goodrich t/a/m80 5- Yokohama Aegis LS4- Any feedback on these or other tires would be appreciated

hypov · February 2004

if the replacement tire is the same make/model and the remaining three tires have circumferences within 1/4 inch difference of the new tire.

-Dave

c_hunter · February 2004

I have been plugging tires for years, and have never ever had one fail or leak. In fact, I generally plug them myself and drive on them right away. Never ever had a problem. As far as I'm concerned, they are completey acceptable. Many tire shops use plugs too.

I actually keep a plug repair kit (consists of a couple tools, rubber cement, and the hemp plugs) in my cars along with a small compressor, and that is my first alternative to dealing with flats.

The only time there is an issue with a plug is when you have a lot of them in a tire (for whatever reason). It can throw off the wheel balance, and you will need to get the wheel rebalanced. But that's the worst I have heard about.

If you absolutely think you need a new tire, you can get it shaved to match the tread depth of the other three. But I would not do this unless the plug repairs were marginal for some reason (or maybe if you had more than four plugs in a common area of the tire).

Craig

ebony5 · February 2004

Thanks for the rapid responses. Well after reading what Michelin had to say about repairing tires with plugs without removing the tire(strongly negative) I went and had two patches placed on the inside of the tire.The repair place said I had at least another year on these tires, by that time my '96 OBW should have about 81k.Thus for the next set of tires I am more concerned with performance than tread wear. It is never to early to learn what is out there, I just may have to replace them sooner rather than later;I am still interested in tire suggestions.

luke46 · February 2004

Message #1061 mentions an email with instructions on how to replace the hvac backlight on a subaru outback. Would it be possible for me to get a copy of it?
Thanks, Luke

fibber2 · February 2004

a plug of up to 3/16" (IIRC) is fine for a simple nail puncture. But it is true that damage to the inside plies that could make a plug hard to seal can occur, especially if the puncture is done by a screw, or other irregular surfaced object. Inspection from both sides is recommended when practical.

Steve

bigfrog · February 2004

I have a 2002 legeacy with 44000 on it with a head gasket leak. The service manager said we would have to try the coolent conditioner frist per a bulliten. Any one else heard of this. sounds like bars leak to me. I would think thay would replace the gaskets and add the conditioner if it helps. But after you get coolent or oil on a gasket like that won't it start to break it down???

otis123 · February 2004

My 2001 LLBean has been flawless so far at 55K miles. Of course, I keep up w/ all fluids/maintenance...I've changed all but the power steering fluid...will do at 58K oil change...

Enjoy!

Ralph

rob_m · March 2004

Did you ever get to the bottom of the frozen brake issue? Rob M.

K9Leader · March 2004

BigFrog:
Do a search on this and similar threads for head gasket related terms -- there has been much discussion on the issue lately.

Below is the text of the initial notice sent out to dealers regarding the coolant conditioner fix -- note the extended coverage on the gaskets to 8 years/100K miles.

--K9Leader

WWP-99 Service Campaign - Cooling System Conditioner

Subaru has determined that certain 1999 through 2002 model year 2.5L equipped Subaru vehicles may experience an external coolant leak from the cylinder head gaskets. This is the result of normal relative thermal expansion and contraction variations of engine parts. As a precautionary measure, SOA is recommending that a special conditioner be added to the engine cooling system to prevent leaks from occurring or to correct existing leaks.

Only early Phase II 2.5 liter engines are affected by this campaign. Phase I 2.5 liter engines (some 1999 model year and prior years) are not affected. Countermeasures applied to the manufacturing process for those 2002 and later VINS not affected by this campaign have eliminated the need for this campaign to be performed on those vehicles.

In the future, it will be necessary to add Genuine Subaru Cooling System Conditioner to the SUBARU vehicle cooling system whenever the engine coolant is replaced. The updated recommended service procedure as well as intervals for coolant replacement will be added to all applicable service manuals. As a reminder, we will include an update page in the owner notification letters that should be added to the Owners Manual and Warranty and Maintenance Booklet. We ask you to keep in mind that replacement of fluids (including Subaru Cooling System Conditioner) during inspection and maintenance services are not covered under warranty.

If the vehicle owner has this Service Program repair performed promptly, Subaru will extend coverage under the Subaru Limited Warranty on the vehicle for cylinder head gasket external coolant leaks to a period of 8 years or 100,000 miles, whichever occurs first. Warranty coverage begins on the date the vehicle was delivered to the first retail purchaser. If the vehicle was used as a demonstrator or company vehicle before being sold at retail, warranty coverage begins on the date the vehicle was first placed in such service. As a further condition for this extended warranty coverage to apply, the vehicle owner must have Genuine Subaru Cooling System Conditioner added to the vehicle at any subsequent cooling system services at the interval specified in the Warranty and Maintenance Booklet under the heading Schedule of Inspection and Maintenance Services.

Dealers will automatically be sent an initial quantity of Genuine Subaru Cooling System Conditioner. Dealer bulletins and affected VIN lists will be mailed to dealers in early February 2004. Owner notification letters are scheduled for mailing in stages

nygreg · March 2004

does the overwhelming majority of HG problems seem to be on OBs? There doesn't seem to be many Foresters affected. Is my perception off?

Greg

ateixeira · March 2004

Greg: they just had a reputation for being very sensitive. I bet most of the ones that blew up were indeed modded.

I've had luck with plugs on flats. My wife has one now that I actually installed myself, and it's holding the PSI.

Try the coolant conditioner first, they're pretty confident it'll help in most cases. Just keep an eye on the temp gauge and stop immediately if it gets hot, you don't want the alloy block/heads to overheat.

-juice

nygreg · March 2004

I'm saying that HG leaks appear to be mainly un-moded, 2.5L OBs and not on Foresters with the same powertrain.

Greg

ateixeira · March 2004

Oh, I was referring to the intakes on the '99 models.

-juice

romy4 · March 2004

I asked this on another board, but didn't get any response. I probably asked in the wrong forum. The coolant level in my 02 OBW overflow is very low and I need to top it off. The manual says not to mix coolants. Does anyone know who makes the coolant for Subaru? Can I use any name brand antifreeze? Just don't want to cause a problem down the line.

Thanks,

Rosemary

ateixeira · March 2004

Use the green stuff, regular Prestone or Peak, or even generic. Mix 50/50 with distilled water (not spring or tap).

-juice

romy4 · March 2004

I figured that, but wanted to be sure. I've got both Peak and Prestone here, so I'm all set. I guess I'm a little OC when it comes to my subie.

Thanks again,

Rosemary

mrk610 · March 2004

Well just turned 300 miles on my car with the 2 new pistons . The car sounds nice and quiet. the only problem that have now is .After some driving I get a smell from the engine compartment that smells like hot oil. It dosen't smell like the oil is hitting the exhaust system . I have gone ovet the engine and see no leaks . I guess i just drive it and see if it goes away .

Mike k
P.S the weather was 60 on Sunday so the outback got the full OCD treatment .

ateixeira · March 2004

Treat it like a new engine that you are breaking in. 1000 miles, just like when new. I'd expect a little teething like that.

-juice

pon1 · March 2004

I thought way more Foresters were affected, but maybe my reading has been skewed. Likely it's affected all 99-02 Phase II's, regardless.

cptplt · March 2004

look at the Bridgestone Turanza LS series, they get very good ratings on Tirerack and are cheaper than the Hydroedge. They come in several speed ratings.

pon1 · March 2004

I thought way more Foresters were affected, but maybe my reading has been skewed. Likely it's affected all 99-02 Phase II's, regardless.

otis123 · March 2004

Man, after reading some of these posts, I'm so glad my wife pushed me to go for the H6 back in Feb. 2001 [but I won't admit it to her]. :-)

Just realized our LLBean (delivered 2/1/01) has experienced 4 winters already! Time flies!! The "frozen" brake pedal only happened once (this past winter) when it was single digits [F] during the day. It happened backing out of my parking space at work after sitting all day - I just drifted back an extra car length before the pedal seemed to finally "melt". Luckily, I had turned the steering wheel enough backing up so I didn't back in to anyone/anything. Weird feeling not being able to stop... I got ready to pull the emergency brake by instinct (used to drive stick shift VWs).

I finally had the brake fluid changed for the first time [power flush] 2 weeks ago at 54K miles. Subie mechanic said there was no visible water in the line and it looked like it should at 54K. He checked the master cyl. (for the recall issue) and said everything was OK. Not sure why it would have been frozen at start up - if it was even "frozen"...

Now that I think of it, how was I able to put the car in reverse without depressing the brake pedal? Don't remember if I did and then it froze while backing up... I'll hopefully never experience it again...

Ralph

rob_m · March 2004

Ralph, thanks. I had a one time event with my wife's 03 OBW with only 9k - it's second winter. It was a 20 degree day, after 5 days averaging -4 to -8 in the morning. I could not stop the car twice in 5 minutes. The first time, I went over a curb in a parking lot. The second time I used the emergency brake. Per Juice and Mike, had the brakes flushed. The pedal now feels better when cold - it used to be hard as a rock. I have to doubt that it was frozen. Fortunately, like you, this has never happened again. And I still like the car.

ateixeira · March 2004

Lube the pedal itself, also. But I bet it was the brake fluid.

It might have been that the brake pistons seized up, you can lube them with a purpose built grease but they usually only do that when you're changing brake pads.

-juice

kevinch · March 2004

Hi All,

I posted a message late last week (#2743) about buying a 1999 Legacy SUS & concerns over the HG issue.

Well - we decided to buy the car. We should get it next week, or at the latest around the 17th.

This is a 30th Anniversary SUS Limited. It has the factory "custom" wheels - where the area between the 5 "spokes" is painted or anodized gold.

To my question: are the areas that are NOT painted gold simply polished, are they clear coated over the base metal, or are they painted with color then clear coated, or anodized? I'm asking because the wheels need reconditioned. The gold areas look good & the "spokes" are OK, but the rim area on all 4 wheels has that white oxidation all over them - probably a result of using the wheel weights that clamp onto the wheel, as opposed to those that stick onto the inside.

I'd like to do the reconditioning myself. I'm not concerned with having them look 100% original - I'll have to decide whether to polish or paint - & knowing what there is to contend with would be a help.

Thank you!

rob_m · March 2004

The rims are natural aluminum under a layer of clear coat where there is no gold paint. I have the 30th anniversary GT with the gold 11 spoke rims. After a couple winters in New England, combined with the use of an unnamed wheel cleaning product (in a purple bottle), the clear coat has lifted from all 4 wheels. What isn't white, is black and splotchy.

Professional re-finish was quoted at $140 each.

I have taken to cleaning the rims with aluminum polish and a tiny brass bristle brush - I didn't think I could destroy them any more than they already were.

Not perfect, but certainly passable from a couple feet away.

There is an automotive catalog which has polishing and buffing kits for rims, if you are really inclined.

Good Luck! Rob M.

hammerhead · March 2004

Actually, the operation is incredibly simple. Pop out the cupholders and
remove the two LARGE phillips screws (don't touch those teeny ones) that
hold the cupholder assy in. Pull out the cupholder. Pull out the ashtray
all the way (push down on the spring loaded "lid" and it comes all the way
out) and look in the now vacant hole for two phillips screws fairly close to
the rear edge (vehicle's rear) of the "roof" of the vacant hole. They're
impossible to access with a normal screwdriver - I used a bicycle multi tool
but you can also use a phillips bit and a pair of pliers to complete the
half turn it takes to loosen them enough to remove by hand.

Now pull out on the top edge of the trim piece that surrounds the radio
until it resists further leaning. All you need is for the top edge to come
out about 3 inches - DON'T try pulling this out all the way, meaning don't
try pulling up on it to pull it's bottom edge out of the slot. Leave the
bottom edge pinned between the front edge of the center console and the
center of the dash. I pulled this trim piece out when putting a stereo in
my nearly identical '97 last week and it was a pain to put back.

Now point both center vents all the way down, providing a ledge at their
bottom edges to grip the trim piece with several fingers and pull back and
down at a 45 degree angle, wiggling it side to side to help free it. It
takes a surprising amount of force, but then two plastic clips at the
vertical centerline of the vents on each edge will pop out of the dash
opening. They're not fragile at all, but just don't break the trim piece
that defines the bottom of the vents - spread the load with several fingers.

Once it's free, there's a wiring harness to the emergency flasher switch to
disconnect - I think the catch is on the top surface of the white connector.

Now you've got 4 phillips screws holding the HVAC unit in place. Remove
them, then lift it like the hood of a car and see two small silver phillips
screws. Remove these (key here is don't drop these into the dash) and you
can now wiggle the part they held onto the back of the HVAC unit away about
a half inch. These screws hold the cable mechanism that moves the water
valve. Now put the HVAC unit back down (again like a car hood) so it's
close to its normal position and you'll see you've opened up a half inch gap
into which you look. At the bottom you'll see a white 'wire tape' that's
the wiring connector and the thing that limits you from pulling the gap
wider. On the rearward face of the slot you've opened up, you'll see the
back of a circuit board and on it are 3 green plastic discs about a quarter
inch in diameter. These are the light bulbs. Use a small standard blade
screwdriver to hook a crevice on the edge and rotate the uppermost one
counter clockwise about 1/16th of a turn. That's all it takes to remove
them as they're kind of a 'push and turn' install. Once you've pulled this
easy one, it will help you get the harder two that are down deep in the slot
you've created. Note that the one by the fan switch is longer - the other
two are identical. Once they were loosened, I used a pair of needlenose
pliers to reach down and gently remove them from their holes. Kind of like
that old game of "Operation".

This whole thing should take you no more than 20 minutes. Now slap the new
ones in, remembering the long one goes by the fan switch and button it back
up. The bulbs again take just the slightest rotation to lock them back in
place. A penlight helps you see the holes they go in have notches in and
position them with the needlenose.

kevinch · March 2004

If that's the case, I might just try painting them. Wheel paints are available in aluminum & soft gray colors. I'm hoping that by wet sanding & using Scotch-Brite red pads I can get what is there good enough to paint. I don't want to have to strip, because I'm not sure any masking technique I would use on the gold areas would hold up to the strip chemical that found its way to the edge of the mask used to protect it. (I like the 2-tone affect & want to keep it).

Of course, there is always the option of buying a set of custom wheels & using the factory rims for winter. But prices seem, in general, to start at about $100 each & go up from there. I don't want to have to spend that kind of money.

Thanks for your input Rob!

Kevin

lloydl · March 2004

Patti: Understand perfectly about your limits on advice re: parts substitution. No problem, thanks for the response.

Juice: Appreciate the link to the used parts dealer. LOL -- have you EVER had good luck trying to get specific info on car parts (phone or email) from a "recycling yard".

The mirror issue will be resolved. I am prowling supermarket lots with my ruler and a note pad, making notes on model years, mounts, mirror types, placement, colors, plastic composition, etc. I shall gladly share my treasure trove of advice on this important issue when I have firm intelligence (like actually replacing one on my '98 OBW).

Gee -- am I the ONLY one on this forum with a damaged outside door mirror? Hmmmmm.

rob_m · March 2004

You might want to think twice about painting the rims.

The problem is that water, salt, etc has gotten under the clear coat on the silver / natural part of the rim. I'll bet the gold portion looks flawless. I have found that once the clear coat starts peeling, it doesn't stop.

Paint might not adhere to the clear coat unless prepped properly, Guaranteed, it will continue to lift off along with the new paint. The clear coat that is left on the rim is tough. I don't think that wet sanding or scotch pad will take it off - this could be accomplished with a buffing wheel on an electric drill with polishing grit. Course to remove the clear coat and debris, and fine to polish.

I have let the clear coat peel, and have a routine of cleaning the rims every time I wash the car. Brass brush to knock off the peeling clearcoat. Aluminum rim polish to get rid of the black, then a light coat of spray wax to keep dirt from bonding. Not perfect, but passable.

Stripping, masking and painting would be a chore. Given the time, I might attempt this over the summer.

Enjoy your new car! Rob M.

c_hunter · March 2004

One option with wheels is to have them professionally done. They can strip off all the old clear and then powdercoat the wheels. Powdercoating by itself usually costs $40-80 per wheel, not sure about stripping and prep.

Craig

kevinch · March 2004

Rob - I pretty much know what will be involved in painting them (I think!). I don't believe the old clear has to be removed 100%. Granted, anything that is loose will have to come off. My guess is that by starting out with, oh, say 220 grit then moving to 400, then 600, etc. that I can remove the bad paint & prepare the surface of the existing clear to receive a new coating of base coat & then clear over top. My plan would be to stay away from the gold completely by masking - or if possible touch the gold lightly when sanding with the finer grades, mask it when painting the base on the wheels, then remove the mask & cover everything with clear.

Craig - I thought about having them dome professionally. However, looking at what it would cost per wheel, I can buy custom wheels for just a little more. For instance, The Tire Rack (www.tirerack.com) has a painted, 5 "open" spoke 15" x 6.5" rim for the car at $105 each. If I were going to spend close to $100 a rim for reconditioning, I'd rather buy new ones & keep the factory rims for winter. In fact, I might just have to do that anyway, if my attempt at reconditioning doesn't work out well!

Thanks again for the tips - I do appreciate them!

paisan · March 2004

You might as well buy a set of rotas for <$600

-mike

c_hunter · March 2004

You probably should plan on spending at least $150 per wheel to get something decent. Cheap wheels can lead to problems down the road (bending, cracking, etc). Subaru factory wheels are quite strong and relatively light, yet many aftermarket wheels can be heavy and not hold up to bumps, potholes, etc... If I were to classify Subaru wheels in the lineup of aftermarket wheels I have seen, I would say the average upscale Subaru wheel is comparable to a $200-250 aftermarket wheel (obviously the BBS wheels on the STi are higher!!). So, there may be more value in fixing up the old wheels.

If you do go aftermarket, Rotas are a good low-cost choice. Most sets sell for $575-650.

Keep an eye on the weight. If the new wheels are significantly heavier than the old ones, you will notice the effect.

Craig

paisan · March 2004

Is if you are driving a Legacy or Outback (most, not all) you won't notice the difference between a heavy or light wheel. Heck I barely notice the difference on my Impreza L at the track and it's only 2500lbs with 137hp.

-mike

pathtomax · March 2004

Hello,

I am kind of frustrated with my Outback and needed to see about how others opionion. It is a 2001 Ltd with 45,000 miles on it. I brought it into the dealership today for an oil change and some funky thing going on with my security system. It was locking and unlocking on its own. They think they have tracked down the cause with corroded wires. If that does not work, I will have to pay for a new harness (??) that holds the system in place. Odd that I would have to pay for that. I have the 100k service warranty.

Also, my front rotors need to be fixed and I have almost nothing left of my rear brakes. I would figure with all of my highway driving that 45k would not be long enough for the rear brakes to be shot. They are replacing them tomorrow. (Luckily I have a loaner)

I am over paranoid about this car falling apart??

paisan · March 2004

Go out anywhere from 15k-30K 45K is outstanding for almost any vehicle.

Is the alarm aftermarket or Subaru unit?

-mike

c_hunter · March 2004

45K is normal-ish, especially if you have auto transmission.

Are you having the rotors turned (resurfaced)? That's fairly typical for Outbacks but usually fixes the problem. I assume you complained about a vibration when braking, right??

Craig

fibber2 · March 2004

While Craig makes a good point about the quality of Subaru wheels (holding up much better that the younger wheels from my Honda Odyssey), I think I have the Tire Rack wheels you sited. I got a snow tire package from them in 2002 with the Sports Edition Fox-5 ($105 each). They look very similar to Subi WRX with 5 'double spokes'. They are a TR 'house brand' made by FOMB in Italy. Silver paint over alloy. They seem to be decent for the price, and are holding up well nearing the end of their second NY winter. Spec wise, their offset is 5mm off from factory, probably not enough to do much harm (I hope...).

Steve

rob_m · March 2004

Mike, my 96 Outback had rotors at 20k and 60k on the front and 44k on the back.

What dealer in NH gives a loaner?

hammerhead · March 2004

A masking trick a friend has had some success with - use Vaseline to coat that which you don't want painted. After the paint's dry, wipe awawy the Vaseline. Still kind of tedious, but his turned out nicely.

Cheers!
Paul

rsholland · March 2004

also acts as a good mask.

Bob

pathtomax · March 2004

I do have an auto transmission so I guess that 45k is fairly common for the brakes. Yes, I had the vibrating when slowing down from highway as well as back-road speeds.

Robert, Exeter Subaru in NH gives you a loaner car if you purchase the car from them. I commute from the Seacoast to Nashua, NH so it is very convenient for my 60 mile commute.

c_hunter · March 2004

OK, I think your car is fine then. At least regarding the brakes, that's normal wear and tear (and warped rotors are a known occurence with Outbacks, but not a major issue).

The part about the security system is odd. If it ends up costing you out of pocket to fix, I probably would just ask them to unplug the security system unless you really feel you need it. If they unplug the security system, you should still have keyless entry. Something to keep in mind if the cost of repair seems excessive.

Craig

bat1161 · March 2004

Michael,

Were the rotors warped? If so, see if Subaru will replace them under warranty. Quite a few people have had this problem (myself included). As for 45K befroe needing brakes- that's good in my opinion. I had mine done (front & rear) at 30K.

Mark

pathtomax · March 2004

I do have the extended warranty and hopefully the rotors will be covered. The front were warped.

I don't see why the security system is not covered if they actually installed it at 19,000 miles? I don't need it where I live, but I travel quite a bit; especially to Boston and NY and park at airports so I would really like to keep it.

paisan · March 2004

That it is covered for 12/12,000 even if it is a subaru one.

-mike

ateixeira · March 2004

You have to install accessories within the first 1k miles to have your factory warranty cover them.

That's the technical answer. I would call 800-SUBARU3 and ask for a little help. A Subaru Gold warranty customer should expect to be treated well, at least ask how they can help.

-juice

Subaru Legacy/Outback Wagons Maintenance & Repair

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