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Comments
-mike
By 97 is was tuned to make 165hp on 87 octane, so that's not the issue with yours.
I would look at the spark plugs, spark plug wires, and ignition coil to determine the health of the spark. For fuel, make sure the fuel filter has been replaced recently and maybe have a mechanic test the fuel pump/pressure.
What I think everyone wants to know is....does the starter motor SPIN the engine even though the engine doesn't actually start running?
So we are using the term "crank" to describe the starter spinning the engine and the term "start" to mean that the engine is actually running after you've released the key.
The other option would be that you turn the key to start and nothing happens except dashboard lights and a little click or something.
Visiting Host
My 1996 Outback used to have startup issues similar to these. For four years, actually. It was quite troubling at first, but once I figured out the triggers and the resolution, I could live with it. Let me recount the issue in my usual excess of detail.
The first occurrence was a month after I purchased the car (but only a week after we started using it), on or about September 1, 2000. There were about 86,000 miles on the car. After driving for about 14 hours that day with only stops for fuel, we pulled to the side of the road for a 4-hour sleep break. About 45 minutes into the break, I awoke to find the car unbearably cold. I tried to start it to warm the cabin. The car cranked and cranked, but did not start. I was concerned, since we were about 150 miles from the nearest town in either direction. In my usual fashion, I went back to sleep. Two hours later, I tried starting it again, and it fired right up. MIL was on, but turned off after driving a short while.
A week later, having arrived home in Fairbanks, I was at a feed store about 6 miles from home. I had driven the car on a few errands prior, so it was warmed up, but had no problems restarting it. I was in the store about 15-20 minutes. Upon trying to start, it just cranked, but would not fire. Being stubborn, I continued my efforts until the battery on the car finally died. At this point, I was very annoyed at the car (keep in mind I had only owned it for one month). I ended up walking home, retrieving my pickup, and coming back to jump it. It fired right up. :confuse:
I quickly realized, as the problem randomly persisted, that it would do this to me under the following conditions:
1. Any temperature, be it 90 above or 50 below.
2. The car had to be started 45 minutes or less after last running for the problem to manifest. Overnight, after work, etc., I never had a problem starting it.
3. I could crank it until the battery died, but it would not start.
4. The car was not going to start if I cranked it more than 6 times without it firing.
The solution to the immediate circumstance was to wait for five minutes, then try again. Within four waiting cycles (20 minutes), it would start. I never had a dead battery again because of this problem.
The complicating issue is that the car also stalled occasionally when I first bought it, but would only do so within the first 3-4 miles of driving and when the engine was at idle. After spending several hundred dollars on diagnostics for these problems (even though the MIL came on, the ECU never recorded any codes according to the mechanics), one mechanic suggested I replace the mass airflow sensor. It was expensive, but I went ahead and purchased a used one from a bone yard. The stalling problem never happened after this (spring of 2001 at this point) and the no-start issue was less frequent.
Finally, in August of 2004 with about 165,000 miles on the odometer, I started having severe cold-start issues with the car. It ran rough, tried to stall out constantly, and would only behave after the engine warmed up to operating temperature. The ECU recorded multiple codes, including misfires and knock, crank, and camshaft sensors. I decided to go for the sensors first, and replaced all three of them. The cold-start issues were gone and, coincidentally (?), I never experienced another no-start situation as described above. I had the car to 220,000 miles in December 2006, so that was another 55,000 miles with no problems starting.
This does not provide a clear course of action, but my experience leads me to believe that the problem is related to sensors and/or the ECU rather than a mechanical cause. If not, though, I would check the fuel system (versus spark or air) first. While I could crank it and mess around until the battery died, the car never flooded, so it may not have been receiving fuel. You can tell if it floods - you will be able to hear it as the car cranks (it sounds like the engine has less resistance as the starter cranks it). To clear a flood situation, just press and hold the accelerator to the floor until it clears and the engine starts firing.
It might be helpful to have an OBD-II scanner available to check for codes any time the light comes up.
I about tore my hair out over the whole thing at first. Now, though, I fondly remember the vehicle as the best and most versatile I have yet owned. How is that for irony? :P
Always started eventually (5-10 min) & ran ok rest of day.... Occasionally died in slow traffic also & immediately restarted.
Changing camshaft position sensor made it better.... then also changing crankshaft position sensor cured it.
Arc
What you wrote makes sense, although my mechanical knowledge of cars is minimal. I have nothing else to go by, and very little money. I am going to try to replace the sensors, (and hopefully they aren't too expensive). I do know someone with the scanner, so I guess checking for codes would also be a good idea.
I feel like I got a good deal when I bought this car, but it will only be a good deal if the car runs without major issues. The car not starting has already caused some problems for me. I hope I can be as lucky as you, and be able to drive this car for as long as you were able to drive yours.
Thanks again!
I had the engine out of the car twice - the first time was to replace leaking oil seals/gaskets at 145,000, the second time was to replace head gaskets at 192,000. Both were time intensive processes, but neither were at all expensive (shop labor is the expensive part, which I was able to save by performing the work myself). I would likely still have the car with over 240,000 on it had it not been destroyed last winter. I am still sad about that.
The repairs, performed by a shop, are indeed expensive. Probably around $2,000 assuming warped heads. How long have you had the car?
The "salvage" value on the car is highly dependent upon where you live and the overall condition of the rest of the vehicle. But, you have to consider the market value for the car in good condition (including the engine) and essentially subtract the cost of replacing the engine.
If you have any mechanical knowledge at all, I would suggest performing the repair yourself (except the head resurfacing, which is not overly expensive). If I can do it, anyone can.
Consider that if you do opt to have the car repaired (or replace the engine) and keep it another couple years or more with normal maintenance, the invested money already paid for itself.
I bought the car 4 years ago used. the same cars are selling in Colorado for $5000-6000 in good to fair condition (of course with a running engine).
The mechanic stated it would cost aprox $800 to get the motor out and evaluate then approx $2000-5000 to repair depending how bad the warping is. investing that amount of money into an already 11 year old car is intimidating. When do you suggest walking away and getting rid of it as opposed to a replacement car.
When you push the Height button on the console, nothing happens. The indicator say HI and that's where it stays. All the fuses under the dash are all OK. Not sure where to check next. Should I try to get it back to Normal or does it really matter?
Also noticed a green male and female connector under the dash on the left side that is disconnected (not the one that makes the Check Engine light flash). I could try to connect it and see what happens, but with my luck it would probably trigger the ejector seat.
Jim
I just spent $3500 for a completely rebuilt motor to replace the 2.5L in my 99 Outback. Even though that sounds like a lot of money, I now have a zero-time engine in a chassis that is known for its long-term value. I expect we'll easily get another 125K miles out of this engine. A new engine from Subaru is over $7000.
We weighed the options of replacing the blown engine or selling the chassis / body for salvage without a running engine. Without the engine, we expected very low market value. Then we looked at what kind of used car we could then buy for $3500, knowing it would be old, high mileage, and with its share of problems - some apparent, some hidden, likely to be discovered on a dark country road miles from any cellular service.
$3500 for a full rebuild sounded like very reasonable peace of mind. I did all the work to R&R the engine, and the incidentals like belts, hoses, fluids and gaskets were less than $100. Considering today's shop rates for labor, $800 may be fairly reasonable. I can recommend my source for the rebuild if you like.
Hope this is helpful,
T B
I think there is a tube that's supposed to drain the water, that probably came loose. You may have to remove the headliner to gain access, though.
Good luck.
-mike
Thank you.
I'm aware of the complications regarding a high-mileage changeover from dino to synthetic engine oil - does the same cautionary tale apply to trannies & differentials?
I'm getting some feedback from the car (the 99 GT, 160K) that a fluid change is in order. Given the mileage & uncertainty as to when it was last done, I think it's time.
75W90, correct? And do those numbers change if I pull the synthetic trigger?
Thanks, gang, and
Cheers!
Paul
I have a 1996 subaru legacy outback witha 2.5...the couple problems i am having are: The rear windshield wiper and washer fluid don't work at all, however the front windshield wipers and fluid work great...there is not a single fuse blowen, went thro all of them...next from under my dash comes a clicking noise when i try to change where the air blows like to defrost or just dash it feels like its stuck but still trying the only control it works on is the dash and feet so the flap to change airflow isn't moving but trying...still fuses are all fine...the last thing is the dash lights, when i turn the interior dash lights on the ones behind the climate control, just the tuner screen, and the shifter light or the one that lights up which gear your in does not turn on...I checked the one under the shifter and its not burnt out i changed it out and nothing happened...does anyone have any suggestions to were to start looking for the wire problems for the lights and what they think might be broken via the clicking behind the dash? thanks Noah
Any how, keep in mind that the pickup point for the rear washer is lower. So make sure the fluid is full before you go any further troubleshooting.
I have an odd problem with my 02 Bean (H6). After the 60k service it has been leaking gear oil from the front differential dipstick (and dripping & burning on the exhaust for the last 10k miles). I brought it back to the dealer and they said the front differnetial was "full" but not overfilled. They cleaned it up and sent me on my way. Of course it still leaks and stinks. :mad:
I noticed that the dipstick is loose (does not seat tightly like the engine oil or AT dipsticks). IThe dipstick has an o-ring on the lower part, but it does not appear damaged or flattened. I am going to ask the dealer to replace the o-ring on the next visit, but I am not confident it will fix it, given how loose it is. Is there another part to the seal inside the front differential that may be damaged or dislodged?
If not, then I plan to add another oring at the top most part of the dipstick (right under the handle). Does this sound feasible to create atight seal? Anyone know if this type of o-ring will suffice?
Aflas O-ring rated for brake and Petroleum Fluids
Basic Temperature Service Range: - 20°F (-29°C) to 400°F ( 205°C)
I was going to use a standard plumbin o-ring, but thought it would melt.
Any advice?
Thanks,
Matt
Thanks
Dillon
Sincerely appreciate your advice - I like to take good care of my gear : )
Thanks in advance for any help.
Coolant drain/fill
ATF/Trans drain/fill
F+R Diffy fluid drain/fill
Plugs (unless it's under 100k, and had platinums from factory)
Wires (if applicable)
Brake Fluid flush
Brake Pads (Rotors if needed)
Tire Replacements
It will usually cost about $1,000 for that but it's well worth it to be on a level playing field.
-mike
Thank you kindly - would you also add to the list:
- Fuel system flush?
- Power steering fluid drain/fill (it's discolored and probably hasn't been changed in a while - garage recommended it)?
Also, below, what is ATF? By wires, did you mean spark plug wires?
Also, for all the items below, I'll be receiving all the service records of the car from day one before having the garage do anything - which of these below would you skip if they were done X months before brining the car in? How many months would be OK in each case?
Coolant drain/fill
ATF/Trans drain/fill
F+R Diffy fluid drain/fill
Plugs (unless it's under 100k, and had platinums from factory)
Wires (if applicable)
Brake Fluid flush
Brake Pads (Rotors if needed)
Tire Replacements
I'd agree it's well worth spending the money to do this. The way I see it, if you can get a good deal on an owner-to-owner used car and have it carefully inspected, it's well worth putting in the work - as long as the maintenance and repairs are reasonable, you will still pay thousands of dollars less than if you bought from a used car dealer which is supposed to do the work (and doesn't always), but which adds a big markup.
Example - the same model year of the Subaru Outback I'm purchasing from the original owner was selling for double the price on the lot of the Subaru authorized dealership/garage where I had my car inspected, and my model has far more features and is in much better condition.
ATF = Automatic Trans Fluid
Wires= Spark Plug wires, if your car has them, some of the newer cars do not have wires but have a coil-on-plug setup, those do not need replacing.
I would say on the list unless the item was done in the last 3-6 months, then you should re-do it. If you are handy you can do most of it yourself in a day.
-mike
a) Do you think the minor oil leaks should be dealt with now or can wait a few months – most of our drives will be 5 min to 1 hour locally, but we want to be able to use the car for an occasional weekend trip up to 2-4 hours away.
b) Is there anything else you’d recommend?
c) Do you think the repair estimates are fair?
1) The tires are mismatched and not to spec – tires must be replaced – even though they have most of tread on them, current tires are 2 sets of two – not matched for tread or exact size and this can stress drive train. According to Subaru specs, there can be no more than 2/32 in. variance in tire size and wear, and tire tread must match. Cost per tire $95-140; Total cost four tires = $380-560
Several minor leaks:
2) Cylinder head gaskets are leaking
3) Rear main seal is leaking
4) Oil pump leaking
To access 2-4 with the least amount of labor, the engine must be removed. Without taking out the engine, the cost of repairing items 2-4 would be $2700-3000 because of the extra labor time required to access these separately (for example, the rear main seal by removing the transmission, the oil pump by accessing through the radiator). By taking out the engine and reducing labor, the total cost of repairing the oil leaks in 2-4 = $1500
5) Fuel system flush - $99 – must be performed on high mileage cars
6) Power steering flush - $109 – must be performed on high mileage cars; Capitol checked the steering fluid and it was discolored and very dirty, indicating it hasn’t been changed.
Once the engine is removed, the following items could require repair (other repairs may be discovered, but these are most likely based on today’s inspection):
7) Cleaning and resurfacing cylinder heads - given the mileage, the most likely cause of the cylinder head leaking is the cylinder heads being over tolerance, which requires sending them for cleaning and resurfacing – $200
8) Timing belt likely needs replacing - if not replaced last 60-90,000 miles = $80
9) Spark plug wires and spark plugs replacement: $120-200 ($120 regular, $200 platinum)