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Stop here! Let's talk about brakes

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  • burdawgburdawg Member Posts: 1,524
    Look and see if there's a slot in the backing plate. If so, that's the access to the adjuster inside the drum assembly. Unless it's completely different than standard the adjuster looks like a barrel with a gear on one end, you may only be able to see the gear. The access slot may have a rubber lug in it that has to be removed. You can try rotating the gear with a flat screwdriver if you don't have the correct tool which is a brake adjusting spoon. I can't tell you which way to turn it without seeing it, but it should be obvious, since it will only get tighter one way, but will get looser the other. It's possible that a ridge has formed on edge of the drum. This usually happens with standard drum brakes but is unusual with this design since the shoes are used only for parking. I guess it's possible though. If this works for you remember you need to re-adjust the shoes when you have it all back together.
  • wtd44wtd44 Member Posts: 1,208
    You might want to head for your public library and get into the online Mitchell Manual, or other high grade automotive repair manual. You can ask the librarians for help locating the information resources you are after.
  • joe96321joe96321 Member Posts: 2
    Hi, I have a problem with a 97' Chevy Cavalier, the problem is the vehicle jerks when I stop, I have been told that it might be one of the front sensors, does anybody knows how to take them out to replace them.
    Please help!
  • johngmjohngm Member Posts: 3
    I have a 99 sable that I can't take the rear drums off to look at the shoes. The emergency brake is not on and there is no lock washer holding it on. I've tried to take both sides off but can't. Is there an adjuster behind the drum assembly that I have to loosen? What am I missing?
  • cornellpinoycornellpinoy Member Posts: 196
    On our '94 Olds Cutlass Supreme, the ABS light and Brake warning lights on the dashboard stay lit. The car can still stop. Although the pedal feels different, it does not go all the way to floor. Would this indicate that the master cylinder needs to be replaced, or can it be something else?

    Thanks!
  • alcanalcan Member Posts: 2,550
    To diagnose it properly, you need to have an ABS capable scanner connected and the vehicle driven while looking at wheel speed sensor inputs to the ABS controller. If a WSS signal dropout is noted, the appropriate repair can be done. Btw, that model's bad for WSS harness problems. Make sure the harnesses are routed correctly along the control arms and into the engine compartment, with no harness strain.
  • alcanalcan Member Posts: 2,550
    If the drums don't move at all, they're seized onto the rear hubs. A liberal soaking with good penetrating oil will free them up. If they move but don't come off, there's probably a ridge in the drums which won't clear the shoes. Remove the rubber plugs in the backing plates and rotate the adjuster star wheels with a brake adjuster or slot screwdriver. Might be necessary to use a thin screwdriver to hold the self-adjuster lever away from the star wheel.
  • alcanalcan Member Posts: 2,550
    Quick check, master cylinder fluid level. If ok, have any stored trouble codes retrieved with an ABS capable scanner and post the codes.
  • cornellpinoycornellpinoy Member Posts: 196
    I'll let you know what I find. Thanks for your reply!
  • joe96321joe96321 Member Posts: 2
    This was done already at the shop, what they found out was that the ABS Module was bad, however, that didn't cure the problem, they told me also that the sensor (R/H) was dirty and probably needed to be replaced.
    Does this makes sense?
    I appreciated your input.
    Joe.
  • alcanalcan Member Posts: 2,550
    They should be able to watch the input from the wheel speed sensor for dropouts, and if they're absolutely, positively, definitely sure there's no problem with the harness routing then the sensor's probably dinked. The bad news, it's integral with the front hub/bearing assembly and can't be replaced separately.
  • johngmjohngm Member Posts: 3
    Thanks alcan, I'll give it a try.
  • luckypersonluckyperson Member Posts: 1
    What causes front brakes to lock up?
  • alcanalcan Member Posts: 2,550
    Usually, high pedal effort. Care to be more specific as to make, model, year, repair history, and symptoms?
  • grumpy7110grumpy7110 Member Posts: 4
    2 yrs ago I had to have my power booster replaced, and now yesterday when I tried to stop it felt like I was pressing my foot against a brick wall. being a female I opened the master cylinder and thought, crap I put air in the line..so we bled the brakes..I am still unable to drive the truck...I was told it might be a vacuum leak? where we would I check for a vacuum leak (there is no air coming out of the brake pedal) or power booster again. any help will be so very appreciated...I don't have the money to send this truck to the mechanic shop.
    96 blazer 4x4
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Yes, brake booster or rather huge vacuum leak. However, a big vacuum leak would make the engine run rather ragged at idle. So it's more likely the brake booster once again.

    You can't put air in the lines by open the top cap on the master cylinder, so that was unfortunately a waste of your time...besides, air in the lines would give you no pedal, not a hard pedal, --so you'll know next time.
  • grumpy7110grumpy7110 Member Posts: 4
    Thanks Mr Shiftright....tomorrow I am going to go and look for any hose that maybe disconnected and if all else fails replace the power booster. Do power boosters usually have only 2 yrs life span?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    You never know. It depends on the quality/source of the replacement part. A replacement part is only guaranteed as long as its warranty. That seems premature, though, but it's long enough that you won't get anything complaining about it.
  • alcanalcan Member Posts: 2,550
    WIth the engine off, pump the brake pedal until any vacuum reserve is bled off and the pedal is hard. Hold the pedal down firmly and start the engine. If the booster is working, the pedal will drop slightly. If not, it isn't working. As Mr S mentioned, with the engine running remove the hose from the fitting on the booster. You should feel strong vacuum. If so, the booster's dinked. If not, trace the vacuum hose back to the engine and look for any kinks or restriction.
  • carlisimocarlisimo Member Posts: 1,280
    It means you're trying to break harder than the tires will let you.

    The limiting factor in how hard you can break is your tires; generally your front tires, which do most of the braking (more so in front-wheel-drive cars, where they can do up to 80% of the work). They're trying to slow down without losing their rolling grip on the road, but when you brake too hard, you exceed the static friction limit (grip) and they start sliding. Once they're sliding, they don't resist the calipers' force much anymore, so the calipers grab the wheel and force it to stop rolling altogether. Then you slide some more, unable to turn.

    The obvious answer is to ease off the brakes enough so the wheels start rolling again. ABS does this for you - cars with ABS shouldn't lock up their tires.

    On dry pavement, you can delay lock-up (ie, brake harder without the wheels locking up) by having stickier tires (high-performance) or wider tires. A lot of people who buy aftermarket wheels do so to get the benefits of wider tires.

    On wet pavement, snow, gravel, etc, you want tires designed for that surface. Wide tires on water hydroplane more easily, so they lock up more readily.
  • grumpy7110grumpy7110 Member Posts: 4
    Thank You Mr_S and alcan...
    Today after 8 hours the power booster finally replaced and truck is running awesome again. BUT sad part is, it had been found when I replaced the power booster 2 yrs ago, the mechanic "rigged" the booster with a bolt that shouldn't have been on there. kind of sux to find this out but glad that NOW I have a proper part on the truck. After reading the reply from alcan, am going to follow those instructions, I don't know if this new problem is related but when I turn the steering wheel hear a "thud" as if we are over steering it? this has happened before and stopped on its own.
  • luvsgod7luvsgod7 Member Posts: 3
    I also have a 97 Chevy Blazer that doesn't brake smoothly at all. Jerky- like something is catching when I press down on them. I have not taken it to a shop or had anyone look at it. Is it an ABS issue, a sensor, or something else? How much will it cost me to fix, is it urgent to have it looked at, and can any old shop fix it? I cannot do any repairs myself or understand much car-talk, being an ignorant female, but I want to find out the problems preferably before getting wallet-raped. :confuse:
  • dkny1972dkny1972 Member Posts: 4
    Back in Jan. 2005, on a very cold day, my brake pedal was practically non-reactive. I had brake fluid put in. That helped, but initially the brakes wouldn't react. It wasn't until I pumped several times on them, and with each pump it would get tighter. Several months later I was told that my master cylinder needed repair, but a different place told me, after I changed my front and back pads, that I was fine. However, my new pads don't feel any different than before I changed them. Could it be the cylinder?
  • bpeeblesbpeebles Member Posts: 4,085
    If , after bleeding the system, the brake-pedal feels firm and the vehicle stops safely, then the master-cylinder is working as designed.

    As for your previous experience in the cold weather, it sounds as if the fluid was very low and the master-cylinder "sucked air" after the fluid contracted in the system. You should have IMMEDIATELY had the system bled at that time because any air in the system at all can be dangerous.

    The question you SHOULD be asking is "why was my brake fluid so low?". Brake fluid should NEVER- EVER get that low....unless there is a leak somwhere. Brake fluid is not "consumed" during use like gasoline is. Instead, it just moves back and forth in the brake tubing.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    If you had a very hard pedal and no braking, that's a typical power brake booster problem. If you had a very low or mushy pedal, that's more likely master cylinder.
  • um_edum_ed Member Posts: 5
    lights are stuck on fuse isnt blown. i dont know what it could be can anybody help?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    busted or grounded brake light switch that works off the pedal below or off the master cylinder (cars vary in how they send the signal to the brake lights), would be my first guess.
  • um_edum_ed Member Posts: 5
    thank you hopefully thats the problem i guess you will be hearing from me again if not
  • mtdavemtdave Member Posts: 1
    I need to replace the master cylinder on a 1993 Buick LeSabre with ABS. A warning on the AutoZone site says that for certain 92-99 vehicles with ABS, after bleeding the brakes, you may have to perform an auto scan procedure using the Tech 1 tool. This means possibly having the vehicle towed to a shop after replacing the cylinder. Does this apply to the LeSabre? What does this procedure accomplish that manual brake bleeding does not? I'm trying to decide whether I should change the cylinder and hopefully not need the Tech 1 procedure, or, if I do need to run the procedure no matter what, I may be best off just having the shop complete the whole repair. Thanks
  • um_edum_ed Member Posts: 5
    i switched out the brake light switch know the lights are off and dont come on when i hit the brake. any ideas?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    by-pass the brake light switch entirely and see what happens then...
  • um_edum_ed Member Posts: 5
    i figured it out the great people at nissan put cheap plastic caps were the switch hits, that cap broke so the switch was just going right through it at least the perfectly good switch i replaced only cost me $8.00
  • andys1andys1 Member Posts: 1
    I have a 1996 Buick Regal Gran Sport with 79,000 miles on it. All 4 rotors are brand new (changed 500 miles ago), and the back brake pads are brand new (changed with the rotors). I was told by the mechanic that my front brake pads had about 10,000 miles left on them, so I told him to leave those alone as I could not afford them at the time. The change of rotors and back pads was to alleviate a chirping noise that occured while driving, the only time it went away was when I was above 60mph, and I believe that this is only because I could not hear it anymore. It also WENT AWAY when I APPLIED the brakes.

    So after the maintenance, the chirping sound came back and I took it back to the mechanic. He then tried 3 things (free of charge) to alleviate the problem, scoring the rotors, etc., but said if the chirping didn't go away, I would need new front pads. How could this be if the original diagnosis was that I had plenty of time left in them?

    Well the chirping didn't go away, it came back the next morning.

    Is their anything else that could be causing this noise? Simply the alignment of brakes and not the pads? Anything with the wheel bearings or wheels? The warning chip warning me of the need to replace the pads?

    Thanks in advance,
    Andy
  • bpeeblesbpeebles Member Posts: 4,085
    If the vehicle stops properly when the brakes are applied and the rear brakes are not dragging... then this is NOT a problem. It is a machine and it will make sounds.

    The fact that the sound GOES AWAY when you touch the brake pedal is perhaps the key.... I know of many vehicles with 4-weel-disk brakes that make sounds in the same mannor. Do not forget that disk brakes, by their very nature, are always touching the rotors. This may make sounds while driving.

    It is not worth your time and $$ to try to "fix" a non-problem.
  • canyonarocanyonaro Member Posts: 2
    Usually on those vehicles, at least the factory pads have built in noise makers (sounds like chirping) when they need to be replaced. If the place that did the brakes last used the same factory pads, then it is possible that they are worn to the indicators, but not likely.

    You can check yourself if you have 20 minutes. Just take off one of the front tires, and look at the pads. The brake part of the pad shouldn't be anywhere close to the metal parts of the pad. I hope I am not confusing you between the two parts of the break pad. Good Luck!
  • l8303l8303 Member Posts: 1
    I am having the same sympton on my 1996 Dodge Caravan. I believe that the vacuum assist diaphram has a pin hole in it. On mine the whistle does not happen until you step hard on the brake. If you disconnect the vacuum assist hose there is not noise when you press the brakes.

    Have you replaced the vacuum assist or what did you find to be the problem? Thanks.
  • frizzlefryfrizzlefry Member Posts: 6
    Hey all,

    I have an issue with my 2005 ZX5 brakes. If the car is parked for a couple of hours, an excessive amount of force is required to get the car to stop for the first couple of stops after I start driving. After a couple of stops, the brakes seem to work fine. I had it into the dealer's shop and they replaced the master cylinder and the brake booster which seemed to fix it but the problem has returned. I don't feel confident that I could stop the car in an emergency brake situation if I had to brake suddenly soon after starting to drive. Any ideas? This problem seems to occur more frequently when it is hot outside...

    Thanks for any advice you can give.
  • wtd44wtd44 Member Posts: 1,208
    With that being a 2005, it sounds like a warranty problem to me. I would think Ford would be interested in solving a safety issue. Isn't the warranty still in effect on that vehicle?
  • frizzlefryfrizzlefry Member Posts: 6
    Yes, it is. Its just that Ford does not seem to know why its doing this. I doubt the skill of their mechanics because in replacing my brake booster, they broke my master cylinder...which is why they had to replace that as well. And made me wait a week for a replacement to come in.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Sounds like the vacuum reservoir is leaking. I can't believe the dealer missed this one. If the reservoir leaks (it is meant to "hold" vacuum to give you brakes in case the engine stalls while driving), your brake pedal will be very hard and the brakes will feel weak until the engine puts more vacuum back into the leaky reservoir.
  • dkny1972dkny1972 Member Posts: 4
    Thank you bpeebles and Shiftright for your advice. sorry for the delayed response. i'm new to the whole forum bit, so i'm having a little difficulty finding the questions I put up. :blush: ">
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    You can "subscribe" to each forum, like this one, and when you come back to the main forums page you can select "message center" and you'll see all the forums you subsribed to, with a link to get there.
  • bpeeblesbpeebles Member Posts: 4,085
    Even better, I have bookmarked my "message center"...that way, with one click, I can see all the forums I am subscribed to with any updated ones at the top of the page.

    To find your own personal recient appends, just click on "My Recient Posts" on the left buttonbar after logging on.
  • thazallfolksthazallfolks Member Posts: 5
    How do I remove the front brake caliper pins?
  • p0ck3tac3sp0ck3tac3s Member Posts: 3
  • p0ck3tac3sp0ck3tac3s Member Posts: 3
    I just went to the dealership where i Just bought my car. It is a 2002 Mitsubishi Lancer OZ RALLY and they said that it was just rust and the brake pads which would be making the ticking noise. Everytime I got somewhere it goes tick tick tick until it goes away. It happens a lot. I want to make them put new rotors and brake pads on but does anyone know if the rust may just go away or if its something that will just go and be fine? Or do you know if there is something wrong with it? Thanks a lot. Please message me back asap on this.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Well do you see any rust on the rotors?

    Sounds like a fairy tale to me, but....seeing is believing. What do you see?
  • dudette3dudette3 Member Posts: 45
    Hi. I am replacing my front brake pads on my 01 Civic. Vehicle was making a metal scraping sound when accelerating, so I took it to the shop yesterday for a brake inspection. For some reason the right front pad is low, but the left front pads look fine. Do you recommend using the OEM brake pads to replace, or just what the repair shop says is an equivalent replacement? Is it necessary to replace both sides, are brake places willing to replace just one side and only charge for one side? Do you recommend going through the dealer, or is a Pepboys or equivalent shop just as good? Thank you for your help!
  • bpeeblesbpeebles Member Posts: 4,085
    Unless you are on a tight-budget.... it is not wise to do only ONE side. Also, reguardless of budget, the cause of ONE side wearing faster should be isolated and corrected. (or you will be revisiting this problem again.)

    I would reccommend CERAMIC-based pads like the NAPA "ceramix" or Raybestos "QS".
  • bpeeblesbpeebles Member Posts: 4,085
    Rust on brake rotors is VERY common. It can cuse all kinds of symptoms such as noise or grabby brakes in the morning. Replacing the rotors with the same el-cheepo material will not solve the issue. Unless this really bothers you, I would leave it be.

    If you really want no rust on the rotors, then consider StainlessSteel rotors.... but be prepared to pay over $300 per rotor. ( http://www.ssbrakes.com/ )
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