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Stop here! Let's talk about brakes

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  • kiawahkiawah Member Posts: 3,666
    It may be that your abs system is having a problem. I'm guessing it's loosing a signal from one of the wheels, and as a result is thinking that a wheel is locked up...and going into ABS mode (reducing the brake pressure to that wheel). That would explain why at the end of your braking, the brake pedal firms up, because at that point the abs has returned the braking to normal pressure.
  • wtd44wtd44 Member Posts: 1,208
    Brakes being as important as they are, you might want to get the car up on a lift and take a close look. In the past, I have had brakes examined for free by brake repair places.
  • rick_wallyrick_wally Member Posts: 8
    My BMW wants clean fluid each year. So I found a Motive Pressure Bleeder at www.trackHaus.com for only $48. No more pedal pumping. :) :shades:
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Why once per year? IIRC, BMW calls for the fluid to be changed every other year on virtually all of their cars. Yes, no? :confuse:

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I've heard once every other year, but if you track your car 1x a year isn't uncommon.

    -mike
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,296
    I assume whoever I get to look at my brakes will know the proper procedure for having them bled/flushed. Really don't care to pay dealership prices on what sounds like should be a simple procedure.

    I'll write back and report my findings when I get it diagnosed, hopefully sometime this week.

    Got the brakes inspected today at the dealership. They said they were "fine". So, I guess I have been imagining a different pedal feel and lower brake fluid.

    They did say I needed a new battery though. Cold cranking amps way down below normal. Has been a slight struggle to start on cold mornings. A 7 year GM battery for $170. No thanks... I'll go to Sears.
    2021 Honda Passport EX-L, 2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere.
  • wtd44wtd44 Member Posts: 1,208
    ...has some of those new-tech ultra high priced batteries, too. I recently found a great price on an ENERGIZER battery. It is from Johnson Control, and I couldn't be happier... so far! Yes, I said Energizer, as in the bunny.
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,296
    has some of those new-tech ultra high priced batteries, too. I recently found a great price on an ENERGIZER battery. It is from Johnson Control, and I couldn't be happier... so far! Yes, I said Energizer, as in the bunny

    Yeah, first thing I think of when I hear "Energizer" is that pink rabbit with the sunglasses. I may be interested in a new-tech battery.. as long as the price isn't to high. I'll pay a little bit more to not have to worry about a new battery for awhile, but not to much. I'll probably go with the Sears Gold as I plan on keeping my car for only another 2 or 3 years.
    2021 Honda Passport EX-L, 2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    I read in passing that a huge percentage of American car batteries (oem and aftermarket) are made by only 3 (big) vendors.

    Be that as it may,Napa's car battery was rated higher than Sears Gold.

    I used to only buy Sears/Interstate after market. (as each used to last 10 years)

    I think if you check Napa it might even be cheaper . (than either, being as how you only plan to keep it 2/3 years)
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I've heard this as well. I generally will just go to Walmart and get whatever one they have for like $50. Worst case I'm never too far from a Walmart.

    -mike
    Motorsports and Modifications Host
  • 325civert325civert Member Posts: 2
    I worked a parts counter for a couple years, and ran a repair shop here in town for a while...best batteries I've come across are the Advance Auto ones. Made by Johnson Controls, and had 3 of the top 10 in the last Consumer Reports mag I saw. Just my .02. If you're gonna' spend big $ on a battery. Drop in an Optima Red Top and call it a day.
  • jlistjlist Member Posts: 1
    :sick: Do I need a special tool to compress the rear calaper on the rear disc brake on my 1994 Pontic Grand Prix SE? no problem replacing the front, but have never seen this on rear brakes! Thanks for any advice you can give me!
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,670
    I suspect it is like the rear brakes on my 03 GM car. You are supposed to use a spanner wrench or tool to twist the pistons using those y-shaped grooves. DO NOT use a clamp to compress the piston more than 1 mm. like we usually do on cars.

    Neighbors who work on cars have done it with a slight pressure from a C-clamp and using large plier like tools to twist to screw the caliper piston in. The parking brake set up is what complicates the piston on these rears.

    Search Advance Auto for brake parts and tools or Autozone to see what the tool is like. One is a cube with various knobs on the sides for different brands of rear pistons...

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Yup that's probably what it is. That's vintage 1980s technology. Most modern systems installed post 1990 (well I guess not on GM cars) have a drum-in-disc for the parking brake system which makes changing pads a snap as opposed to the PITA of having to retract that piston.

    -mike
  • jmonroejmonroe Member Posts: 8,989
    Do I need a special tool to compress the rear calaper on the rear disc brake on my 1994 Pontic Grand Prix SE? no problem replacing the front, but have never seen this on rear brakes!

    Boy, is this a coincidence that I read this post. I just ran into this on my sons 05’ Mazda 6 this past Sunday. If you buy or have bought the pads at Advance or AutoZone they can provide a free loaner set of tools to do this (screw the piston back into the bore). You’ll have to leave a deposit until you return the kit but that’s more than fair, right. According to Advance (where my son bought his pads, the single tool to do this costs about $15 to purchase.

    My advice is to use the tool, either way, to do this job. As far as I’m concerned it isn’t worth the risk of tearing the boot with pliers/channel locks if/when they slip, when you can do it right with no fear of slipping off the piston and tearing the boot but that’s your call.

    If you want to go over to “Stories from the Sales Frontlines”, post 26171, you’ll see what I just said with a little more info.

    Hopefully I didn’t post this too late.

    jmonroe

    '15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl

  • bpeeblesbpeebles Member Posts: 4,085
    Tearing the boot would be the least of your worries. If the rear caliper is not properly "reset" by using the proper tool. Your parking brake mecanism inside the caliper will likely be trashed. Installing a new caliper is far more expensive than using the proper tool to "reset" the guts of of your existing caliper.

    Also, after "resetting" the caliper and installing new pads. Do not forget to "set" the parking brake mechinism using the approprate procedure for your vehicle. If you just start to drive and use the footbrake, you may be in for a nasty surprise later.
  • jmonroejmonroe Member Posts: 8,989
    If the rear caliper is not properly "reset" by using the proper tool. Your parking brake mecanism inside the caliper will likely be trashed.

    As far as I’m concerned, there is no reason to force something. I never subscribed to the mentality that “all you need is a bigger hammer”. :surprise: When you first put a C-clamp to the piston and it doesn’t move with the pressure that you normally use to back seat a piston this ought to tell you something. There is always a tool to do the job right. After all, this is the part of the car that stops you. 0-60 means nothing when you have to stop.

    Do not forget to "set" the parking brake mechinism using the approprate procedure for your vehicle.

    Good advice. Since I had never worked on a caliper before that required the piston to be screwed back in, I just figured that since the emergency brake was part of this contraption, it would be best to apply the emergency brake a few times just to be sure everything worked. Like I said, this is what stops ya.

    jmonroe

    '15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl

  • wtd44wtd44 Member Posts: 1,208
    Some years ago, I ordered some brake tools from Eastwood. They weren't cheap, but they are top quality. You might want to look at their stuff. I assume they still have a web site.
  • aliualiu Member Posts: 2
    I have a 2003 honda civic with ~23000 miles (I don't drive much...). A mechanics told me recently during an oil change that I should replace my front brake pads and rotor and clean my rear ones. I talked to a mechanics friend elsewhere who told me the pads may be worn, but changing the rotor is a bit much. I want to know in general how often are these parts replaced? My friend recommend that I only change my pads, but the mechanics implied that I may get noisy brake.....I'm not sure what to do....
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Nothing of course substitues for physical inspection and measurements IAW technical specifications! THOSE are the real base lines. So again depending on actual measurements and/or condition/s, rotors can last 2/3 sets of brake pads. So for example on current inspection and measurements my 2004 Civic with 60,000 miles looks to be able to go easily 100,000 miles on current rotors and pads/shoes.
  • wtd44wtd44 Member Posts: 1,208
    I am aware that some philosophers of brake-ology are currently advising to replace worn pads without resurfacing the rotors. If the rotors are "bad enough" to truly need refacing, then replace them instead. For many convoluted reasons, I really agree with this approach.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Yes that is true but not without some unseen assumptions. Note able are the VW vs Honda. Autobahn speeds can be up to 125 mph (VW) to unlimted and surely high speed braking can happen from 125 mph on down. On US roads a more reasonable figure would be from 65 mph on down. VW of course highly recommends changing pads and rotors. You can of course just change the pads if the rotors do fall within technical specifications and projections of the rotor lasting (again within forward looking technical specification) till the next pad change.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Autobahn braking can be, ummm, interesting. When I picked up my last car in Germany via an ED program, we were tooling along on Cruise Control at about 125 when all of the sudden someone on a motorcycle (who'd been following an old Citroen 2CV doing about 60 (if he was lucky)) pulled over into my lane to pass. I dropped my anchor so hard that I swear I could see the skin on my face pulling away from my skull. He of course was already alongside the Citroen when he saw me bearing down on him and nailed the throttle on his bike, and by the time our speeds equalized (him under full acceleration, me under full braking), my front bumper was surely less than a foot from his rear wheel. I hit the brakes so hard that in spite of the fact that that car had the optional Sport Package with nice wide and sticky summer rubber, the ABS kicked in at about 120 mph. I'm thinking that if I hadn't opted for the upgrade suspension, wheels and tires, that dude would have been a red smear on the Autobahn and my new car would have been significantly damaged at the very least.

    Epilogue: Once he completed his pass, he pulled over to the right shoulder of the roadway, slowed to a crawl, and then pulled over into the grass where he dismounted his bike and laid it down on its side.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Was that a case of FEEL the rush, and let the RUSH pass him by? :shades: Glad everything conspired to both sides being SAFE. !!

    So I take it you changed both pads and ROTORS when due? ;) :shades:
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Always! :shades:

    That said, my reason for changing rotors at every brake pad change are as much for convenience as they are for safety. Simply put, I can buy the exact pads and rotors that I want and shelve them until they are needed. When the time comes, zip, zam, zowie, I've got the brakes on all four wheels changed in a little over two hours, WITHOUT the need to visit a machine shop to have the rotor turned. ;)

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • wtd44wtd44 Member Posts: 1,208
    Apparently we all agree. Don't machine down rotors, just replace them when they need to be replaced. We each have an operant formula to determine when that need for replacement occurs, the German Autobahn notwithstanding.
  • bpeeblesbpeebles Member Posts: 4,085
    Here in Vermont, brake rotors never-ever "wear" out... instead they rust so horrably that they are unusable.

    Here is a photo of "high quality" POWERSLOT rotors after 2 Vermont winters.

    The replacment "Bendix" rotors have lasted 4 years since then but are starting to show some rust too.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I concur with the philosophies above. I never machine rotors, when the time comes (usually on the subies we deal with at about 60k) they are replaced. This usually coinsides with the 2nd pad replacements.

    -mike
    Motorsports and Modifications Host
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Ewwww! :blush:

    My rotors used to look like that after as little as one year here in the Boston area, however, during the summer of 2006 I put a set of "Zinc-dichromate plated" cross-drilled Power Stop rotors by "autospeciality" on my daily driver, and now almost two full winters later (and over 40,000 miles), there is virtually no rust on those rotors.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • richardsonrichardson Member Posts: 92
    I would call that an ultra fast break in of a new car.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Ultra fast? Hmmm, yeah, from a calendar perspective I put something like 1,800 miles on it in six days, however, per the manual I kept the speedo south of 100 mph for the first 1,200 miles. Fortunately I didn't have to lay into the brakes until I was well over the "break-in" point, so they didn't suffer any undue glazing or warping. ;)

    Right now we're looking at doing another ED trip late this summer, this time for Mrs. Shipo. She's looking at a 328xi Sport Wagon and we're thinking of going round trip from Munich to Madrid (via Paris on one leg and Barcelona/Lyon/Zurich on the other). Were it that we stay on the main route and resist the temptation to check out the local sights (something that we absolutely will be doing), the trip is nearly 2,600 miles. I'm figuring that we'll rack up well over 3,000 miles in two weeks on this trip. ;)

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • aliualiu Member Posts: 2
    Thanks for your reply and using your car as an example.....so have you changed your brake pads for your first 60,000 miles? I am concerned that the mechanics that saw my car just wanted to make money off me and not being honest about the actual condition of the brake pads.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    No it has not been changed. My swag is the first change will happen at a min of 100,000 miles.
  • richardsonrichardson Member Posts: 92
    What does ED stand for other then erectile dysfuction? Shipo, you sure get around.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    ED = European Delivery. The greatest (not so) best kept secret in the sales arsenal of several European marques. ;)

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • wtd44wtd44 Member Posts: 1,208
    But then, what about that very expensive ship ride back to the states? Please do explain!
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    The shipping charges are paid for just like you pay for them on a domestically sourced car. If you buy a BMW off the lot, the cost of shipping from the factory is $775 (it's right on the window sticker), and if you buy a car via the European Delivery program, you still pay $775 for that same shipping.

    Believe it or not, the savings that you can get in ED sourced cars is really significant. erickpl, "BMW European Delivery" #1, 5 Sep 2002 8:42 am

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • wtd44wtd44 Member Posts: 1,208
    Hey, that sounds good! Obviously, I had been thinking that the shipping would be staggering. Thanks for the enlightenment.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Well you can only do ED for cars that are actually built in Europe. So the shipping is the same as it would have been, had you just ordered it normally.

    -mike
    Motorsports and Modifications Host
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Agreed. You cannot for instance order any of the South Caroline built BMWs via European Delivery. :P

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • burdawgburdawg Member Posts: 1,524
    Right now, with the exchange rates for the dollar vs. the euro, I'm wondering if you would save anything.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    In an effort to keep from continuing this thread hijack, please take a look at the following post that lays out an ED trip for this coming Summer.

    shipo, "BMW European Delivery" #1436, 14 Mar 2008 8:14 am

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    I got a nail in the front right tire on GY LS-H with 103,000 miles. Now it became a question of whether or not I should patch it and take the chance it does not make sense at 2 levels or just "retire" it and run the rest of the good GY LS-H's on the fronts and cycle in the new Toyo TPT's on the rears. I decided to do that. The 3 old GY LS-H's still measure good to go to 110,000 miles and will pull out the tire depth gauge to check again at that time.

    So I had a chance to re inspect the brake pads and rotors. The pads still have massive material and the rotors are within specs and not warped.
  • djjdave1djjdave1 Member Posts: 2
    Hiya all, I have a problem and to date, cant find an answer.

    about 6 months ago we started a project of redoing the brake lines from the anti lock unit to all the wheels. Well other things took up our time and in that time I have lost the paper that I had wrote the locations of the 4 lines off the brake unit.

    I need to find how the lines go from front of brake unit block to the firewall.

    not sure if its drivers front, pass front, drivers rear, pass rear... I am hoping that someone can help me short of me haivng to go to a bone yard and crawl around in the mud looking under another caddy.

    I happen to have a few free days with easter here, and thought it would be a good time to finish what I started. Can anyone help with the line locations PLEASE?

    Thanks
    Dave :cry: :confuse: :(
  • marleemarlee Member Posts: 1
    Can't get a hard pedal in my 1997 Acura CL 3.0. First we replaced the driver's side rear caliper and brake pads on both sides. Then we replced the master cylinder. Took it to a shop to have them bleed it but there is still not a hard pedal. Is there any other reason sother than air in the brake line that might cause there not to be a hard pedal?
  • richardsonrichardson Member Posts: 92
    I usually don't get a real hard pedal with new brakes. Give them a few hundred miles to wear in and see how they are then.
  • ajg617ajg617 Member Posts: 5
    I will never re-surface rotors again, not after one of the factory composite originals on my 96 Suburban separated into two pieces due to corrosion at the joint between the hat and the disc (and that car spent most of its winters in south TX and VA - 3 in NH). Sent me into the back of a semi 3 years ago and put me on permanent disability. All that and I adhered to my dealers recommendations to turn the rotors and not replace them. Seems to me that when the rust is coming off in sheets in the heat dam area, somebody at my trusted dealership should have said change the rotors when they did the front brakes 20k earlier and did the state inspection 10k before the accident.

    Not only the cold is bitter in NH! :sick:
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,670
    I am replacing rotors when there's any problem--no resurfacing.

    I replaced pads on the front of my LeSabre and did not resurface. In fact the company info, maybe on Bendix's site, said the coating on the old rotor is good for breaking in the new pads. At least better than a resurfaced rotor.

    I'll be buying US made Bendix rotors for the rears in a few days or weeks to replace those. One has warped slightly and I've never had good experience with resurfacing a warped rotor even back in the old days of disc brakes.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Hmm, perhaps you were following too closely?

    10k miles since inspection is almost a whole years worth of driving according to the 12k a year stats. And 20k since they were worked on is quite a lot.

    I never resurface rotors mostly cause it costs almost as much to take em off and have em resurfaced as it does to just buy new rotors!

    -mike
  • ajg617ajg617 Member Posts: 5
    Nope not following too closely - just lost all braking while stopping. The rotor break occurred during braking on a clear, warm, dry day. ABS activated momentarily and then I had no brakes at all. No skid marks, no swerving, no abs light, no squeal of the pad warning indicator, nothing. Hard pedal that I was standing on. Brakes were still above minimums.

    I averaged 35-40k miles on front brakes on both my 95 and 96 Suburbans. The 10k inspection was 8 months earlier.
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