I had another question for RX-8 owners. Is it a hassle to reach the oil dipstick? I recalled reading somewhere that you first have to remove something before you can reach it. Is that true?
cheeze...my nose is healed. Some say breaking it improved my appearance. But, the burns and bruises on my arms are still healing. Don't know why that's taking so long other than the fact that airbags deployed with more force than I realized. That should be cleared up in the next week to 10 days, though.
Yes, I ordered a Mustang GT. After test driving the GTO and Mustang extensively and comparing them together, there really aren't any significant performance differences.
While the Mustang is much lighter on its feet than the GTO, I have no illusions that it's going to be a match for the RX8. Several things drove me towards the Mustang over the GTO. First, all the controls of the Mustang are done very well (very RX8ish in feel) and work with a "smoothness" that the GTO can't match (controls felt "stiff" and less refined by comparison). The finishing details of the Mustang are better than in the GTO. Just one example, little details like the passenger airbag is integrated very nicely in the Mustang. In typical GM fashion, they slapped a passenger airbag door on the dash and that was the end of it. Not very integrated at all. The GTO's operation of the "little things" were slow and complex in comparison to the Mustang. Trying to do something as simple as putting in a CD in the stereo is maddeningly slow. The front seat latches take a long time to operate. These are "nitpicks", but things that would frustrate me over time. The Mustang took a page out of the RX8s book. You can tell the Mustang designers put more thought into the interior than GM's designers. Controls and their functions are very intuitive with the Mustang. There's a certain elegance in their simplicity.
The aluminum touches on the steering wheel, the dash and the vents in the Mustang are very nice. I liked those touches better in the Mustang. I'm not certain the color changing guages will be something I use a lot, but they are pretty "cool". As they say, the devil is in the details. I was surprised at the details that Ford got right. I felt right at home in the Mustang (again, the feel is very similar to the RX8).
Mustang is very nicely built, both inside and out. It felt "more of a piece" than the GTO did.
It helped that I liked the styling (in and out) much better of the Mustang. The GTO interior is no slouch, though.
Mustang runs on regular gas. GTO asks for premium. Mustang has a much bigger trunk than either the RX8 or the GTO.
Then, there's the not so insignificant price difference. The '05 GTO was about $4,500 more than the loaded up Mustang GT I ordered. Same performance, better handling (GTO felt heavy by comparison), nice interior, better styling, better price....it became a "no brainer" in the Mustang's favor.
Hopefully, mine will be in sometime in the next 3 weeks. I came close to pulling the trigger on a "Shimka" RX8 this past weekend because I'm getting tired of sharing my son's car with him. I can hold out another 3 weeks, though.
RX8 dipstick....yes, it's a little tough to reach. I consider it a minor thing, though. Once you get under the hood a few times, you know right where to reach. Getting it back into the dipstick hole at night will test your vision, though.
Lets be honest here - The 3rd generation RX-7 had a life expectancy of around 60-80K miles. Without regular maintenance, you might only see around a little more than half of that. If you tweaked the boost, all bets are off.
Non-turbo Rx-7s do a little better. With regular maintenance, the could last about the same as a piston engine. Without regular maintenance they wouldn't likely make it anywhere near 100K miles.
I feel like I understand the pros and cons of the engine pretty well. It is the reliability of all the other stuff I was wondering about.
I'll defer here as I did not own a 3rd gen RX7. What I do know is I see an awful lot of them around with well over 100K miles on them and they seem to be running well.
Nice to know you are getting better! I've heard the burns from airbags can be nasty.
It sounds like you will have fun in your new Mustang. Have you talked to your insurance agent to see the price difference in insurance premiums? I'm must curious as to how much more the Mustang will be. (or if it would be less) Being able to run 87 octane gas would be nice, (I know there are folks running 87 in their RX-8s without problems, but I'm kind of afraid to go below Mid-grade)
The life of a rotary engine is much better than you state-- my 1986 2nd generation[1st year model,non turbo] lasted 15 years and 220,000 miles with oil and plug changes only.Still got 24mpg after all this use. I did have starting problems over the years--but the started never gave way.The mazda rotary engine is truly a remarkable rugged engine--witness its past racing history--many victories using the same engine over and over again. Most piston engines are rebuilt or trashed after racing.Not so with the rotary--the only madza rotary to win Lemans still sits in Japan and still runs strong.
My RX8 experience was great, but given the opportunity, I did take advantage of driving a bunch of cars. The Mustang "struck" me. Ford did a very nice job on them...in and out. Plus, the performance is intoxicating (but, so is the RX8's...just in a different way).
Insurance agent doesn't expect there to be much, if any, difference. But, I really don't know exactly if/what kind of rate change to expect. That said, I'm also a 40ish year old male.
I did drive a convertible GT. Excellent convertible. Very solid....for a convertible. It was probably the fastest convertible I've ever driven, too. But, dealership was just getting them in. The one I drove had a $2K over MSRP "market adjustment" sticker on it....and that's with snow still on the ground when I drove it. Didn't drive it with the top down for obvious reasons, however.
Around southern OH, a convertible is good maybe 3-4 months out of the year. Outside of that, it's either too cold or too hot for reasonable top down fun.
I don't dispute what you say at all. Yours is not the first 200K rotary I have heard of. But, to counter your obviously well cared for car, I had a 1984 that must have previously had a hard life as the engine died at less than 80K miles. I sold it "as is" to a guy who made his living buying low mileage RX-7s with blown engines, popping in a new engines, and reselling the cars.
Let them sit too long or go too long without oil changes and they just won't last.
Not that it matters much to the people here - no true enthusiast would mistreat their rotary. But, it is something to think about as RX-8s start showing up on the market with some miles on them. There are a lot of non-enthusiasts complaining about the maintenance requirements of these cars, and others who aren't complaining because they never bother to check the oil, etc.
eternal....RX8 manual recommends premium, but others have tried lower grades and I haven't heard any negatives. The engine's computer will adjust the timing with lower grade gas and you'll probably see a little drop in performance by using lower grades.
Rotary accents are purely cosmetic. They are little "silver triangles" that go on the lower bumper in the front and the back. At the very least, get the side strakes if you want to upgrade the look.
lemmer....I don't know of any engine that will last very long without checking/changing the oil at reasonable intervals. You can "seize" a civic engine at 80K miles with lack of maintenance.
Buying a used anything, with no record of proper maintenance is always a risk.
No reason to think that a rotary would have less durability than any other traditional engine. Matter of fact, I'd say their durablity may be even better given that the RENESIS only has 9 moving parts.
I would be able to get side strakes from the dealer as well, correct? Are those the two little things that are behind the front wheels? And how much would that run me for? And also, are the side strakes mainly for looks?
I plan on ordering some clear corners from rotaryextreme.com as well, that is if everything falls through appropriately. What color are the stealth amber lights for the clear corners?
I apologize for the numerous questions. Just want to make sure I'm knowledgable before plopping out money to purchase a car.
went to the mazda dealer to get a serious deal on an 8 Friday. i've been in them before, small prior test drive in an auto and liked the car overall. took my boyfriend on this trip and we had real problems. he's about 6'4" or 5" and he literally did not fit in the car. he was practically laying flat in the passenger seat and was still hitting his head and leaning on the door just to keep off the console. he cussed and whined the entire test drive!! i usually buy what i like and *&$$ on my boyfriend, but once in a while, you have to use each other's car for one reason or another and there's no way he could comfortably drive this car?? i'm only about 5'3" and the car was comfy for me. how tall are all you 8 owners???
strakes can be had from your dealer. They are chrome accents that go over the branke vents on the sides of the RX8.
lhess....I'm 6' even and weigh 190 lbs. If you're like me, my cars last longer than my girlfriends so they never enter the picture in my car choices since I'll eventually have the car long after the girlfriend is gone.
I'm 6'3" and have a sun roof. I'm very close to the roof and have to be careful when driving over bumps and the like. A car without the sun roof has plenty of head space for me. The passenger side seems to give people more problems--both short and tall.
I don't mean to be argumentative, but I guess I am anyway.
I will use an example of another car to kind of show my point. My wife bought a 2000 BMW new. The computer "told" us to change the oil on average about every 15K miles. I would guess that a BMW engine would be good for maybe 150K to 200K using that interval. An rotary engine might be good for 50K to 75K miles using the same interval.
Going back over the past thirty years, it is pretty clear that the rotary engine is far less durable than a piston engine. They are sweet running engines and a wonderfully simple design. The problem is that Mazda can't seem to improve the reliability or the fuel mileage of the engine. As a result, I doubt you will ever see the rotary in any car that is more than a boutique item (they tried it in pickups and sedans in the past and failed pretty miserably).
The sum of it is that the great god of rotaries giveth but he also taketh away.
Well....the recommended oil change intervals for the RX8 is 5K miles. I contend that if you do that (as well as other routine maintenance) there will be no difference between the longevity of a piston engine (BMW's included) or the RENESIS.
Over the last 30 years, I've seen no indications whatsoever that a rotary engine is any less durable than a piston engine.
I don't know where you're getting your information from, but clearly it's misguided.
MPG of sports cars aren't the best. The RX8 is no different. It's going to offer about the same MPG as any other car with about the same performance level.
as for reliability I think you will find the rx8 comparable to the nonturbo 2nd gen rx7.The only problem I see here is its tendency to flood if not paying attention to this idiosyncrasy.As for fuel milage--17to 19 mpg for a 1.3l race engine is very good. Most engines today need to be 2-3 times larger to achieve the performance of the RX8,and their mpg isn't much different.
My information comes mainly from car magazines. I also have two or three books devoted exclusively to RX-7s. RX's have been my favorite affordable sports cars since I was a kid, so I have carefully read countless reviews, owner reports, etc.
A quick google search would probably get you a rotary history including some of the problems over the years. For the first several years, they were abysmal in reliability. A good history of Mazda will explain how the rotary engine almost put them out of business in the 1970s due to huge warranty claims followed by the resulting low sales.
Any number of long-term tests done by the car magazines in the mid 90s revealed the reliability woes with the third generation engine (and just about everything else on the car).
The host, Mr. Shiftright, could probably provide an accurate second opinion. But pretty much everything I am telling you isn't opinion, but fairly easy to verify facts.
As for the mileage, any number of smaller engined sports car handily beat the RX-8 in mileage and performance, most notably an S2000. A Lotus Elise will probably nearly double the real world mpg of the RX-8.
I would feel comfortable making a bet that the RENESIS won't be any less durable than any other piston engine.
If you're talking about the '60s WANKEL engines, when production versions were first being developed by a host of manufaturer's (including GM's prototype Corvette version), then I'd say the initial Mazda rotary production cars of the '60s and early '70s, perhaps you could make a case for lack of durability. We're far, far removed from those, however.
I've got a couple of books on just the RENESIS development. Although no owners have enough miles on the RENESIS to really assess it's bulletproof nature, from all reports (mine included), they will be. Don't forget, the technology included in the RENESIS was born in the harsh trenches of a very successful racing development program. There are more similarities than differences between the racebred rotary compared to the production RENESIS found in the RX8.
While the S2000 is a fine car, MPG numbers aren't going to make or break most people's assessment of it's appeal as a daily driver. The Lotus Elise is also a tasty number, but given Lotus' dismal history with reliability issues, it isn't going to endear anyone based on its MPG numbers. As a sports car, comparing the RX8's MPG numbers to its competition (mainly the 350Z, perhaps a new Mustang GT or other U.S. born muscle and some of the turbo'd cars), the MPG is right in line with the rest.
Aside from the RX8, the 3rd gen turbo RX7 is probably one of the most desireable cars around for those who are looking for a car that is at home on the track as it is on the street.
I suppose you could wear blinders and only look at some problems with the rotary, but I doubt it will be any more or less meaningful than doing a search for troubles with any given piston engine.
As pathstar will attest (since he's gotten his hands dirty with remapping the ECU for even more performance gains), the "quirks" have been addressed by Mazda with re-flashing the ECU in the production cars from their initial state when they first hit these shores almost two years ago.
Just took a test drive in an RX-8 - very impressive, but I couldn't see the digital speedometer readout in the daytime with sunglasses on. Does anyhone know if the display be brightened? The salesman didn't know - he just sort of lamely pointed out that there would be no problem seeing it at night. Knowing I wan't too keen on black, he also noted that all cars were black at midnight.
"Knowing I wan't too keen on black, he also noted that all cars were black at midnight."
You had yourself a real Einstein there......
Can't address the problem of the digital speedo washing out when you had sunglasses on; sounds like a polarization problem perhaps. I'm sure gguy will chime in with good advise shortly.
The most useful option to get is the exhaust metal decoration around the exhaust pipes (they go on the bumper/rear valence). Without them, if you get into high power running (high speed or modifications) you will melt the plastic surrounding the exhaust pipes.
The 3rd gen. did have "reliability problems" that could be considered serious. My unit lost an engine and turbos (replaced under warrenty) at 20,000 km. The initial problems included: a) The coolant pressure was set too high (to reduce coolant boiling). The high pressure caused the front turbo coolant hose to burst - it was weakened by the radiant heat from the turbo housing. Glycol is flamable, and when that hose burst it sometimes resulted in a fire - hence my cars' loss of the engine and turbos. The fix was a lower pressure rad. cap. and better hoses. b) The interior plastic was cast shiny and smooth but was then painted flat black without proper prep. The paint tends to peel. c) The 3rd gen extracts 255 HP from the 1.3L engine, more in later years that weren't imported to North America (the later year models are reliable). Meticulous maintenance is necessary as any failure in the engine/turbo system can result in overboosting, and that can be fatal for the engine. The turbo sequential system is rather complex, too complex for most dealer mechanics. That resulted in poor maintenance and I would estimate a 30% loss of engines for that reason and owners doing mods. without really knowing what they were doing. These problems were not serious for the 2nd gen turbo RX-7, as it had a simpler single turbo system and produced less HP. d) I would estimate 50% of the 93-95 yr RX-7s were lost due to drivers caught without enough skill - they ran off the road, or into other objects due to the extreme performance of the car. I know during the first year I owned the car I was fearful of the accellerator pedal. If pressed without great care things happened almost too fast to react! I got my car when it was 5 yrs. old. Still running and just passed 90,000 km - modded to around 320 HP and still running strong.
The normally aspirated (NA) 2nd gen RX-7 is probably the best car to learn from re estimating the RX-8's future reliability. The NA second gen commonly exceeded 200,000 mi on the engine. As has been stated many times by both me and others, the oil and coolant must be maintained - failure of either can result in a lost engine. The same can be said of any piston engine, though most of them are less sensitive - but loss of oil pressure is fatal to any engine and loss of coolant will destroy any engine within a few minutes if allowed to continue to run.
As a curious asside, the NA 2nd gen was not sold in Japan. All RX-7s sold there were turbos, including convertables (here all convertables were normally aspirated).
lemmer... i did consider cutting either his legs or his head off (preferably his head) to make him fit better, but that would have been pretty messy in a test car!!
"The normally aspirated (NA) 2nd gen RX-7 is probably the best car to learn from re estimating the RX-8's future reliability. The NA second gen commonly exceeded 200,000 mi on the engine. As has been stated many times by both me and others, the oil and coolant must be maintained - failure of either can result in a lost engine. The same can be said of any piston engine, though most of them are less sensitive - but loss of oil pressure is fatal to any engine and loss of coolant will destroy any engine within a few minutes if allowed to continue to run."
THANKS PATHSTAR!
My sentiments, exactly. Without proper maintenance (as in letting a BMW oil changes lapse to 15K miles, just because the computer says so), no engine, piston or rotary, will last.
Turbos, in any car, have been both a blessing and a curse, IMHO. While they do offer a "boost" in performance, they also generate tremendous amounts of heat, which is the achilles heal of any engine. I try to stay away from them for that very reason.
I only drove a '95 Turbo'd RX7 once and briefly many years ago. I thought I was fairly experienced from running at Mid-Ohio. I wasn't prepared for what that RX7 would do, however. It literally scared me with the type of "rush" it offered in the performance dept.....and that was on a closed track.
Regarding the digi speedo washing out....yes, polarized sunglasses are the culprit. Some polarized sunglasses are better than others. The "cheapies" tend to be worse for "washout" than something along the lines of Serengettis.
lhess....time for a new boyfriend (preferably one of normal size).....LOL!
Good to see alot of posts on the RX8 and other Rx's. I had a 78 Rx7 the original sports car. I put 70k miles on it over two years and only performed regular maintenance. Ditto for a 80 Rx7. The 86 non turbo served me for 80K with only regular maintenance. My experience with the 93 RX7 was based on my purchase of low mileage vehicles 26k on one and 20k on the other. Both cars were exceptionally responsive. I put about 40k on each prior to selling them. Once again I had no problem with reliability. My RX8 have not been around long enough for long term durability but other than putting a little extra oil in once in a while I have had no problem.
My favorite rx was the 7 models of 1993. Nothing but pure power with great handling. I hope Mazda builds a new one. I like the sophistication of the RX8 but for pure acceleration nothing tops the 93 RX7 turbos.
I am 6'2" and 275 lbs. I fit fine. I agree that the passenger side is pretty cramped for me. The lady with the tall boy friend should let him try to drive it. He may fit.
By the way does anyone know where I can sell a factory spoiler for an RX8 I had purchased it and then sold the car that needed it and leased another RX that had the spoiler on already.
Glad to see all the RX8 activity, lets keep it going.
Thanks to Pathstar from me too for bridging the gap. I think we are all in agreement that the early rotaries and the third generation Rx-7s could be problematic. I would also agree that the second generation was the most reliable, and all rotaries require careful maintenance.
I also love the third gen cars, but the issues with them kind of scare me. I would guess that taking one to a Mazda dealer for repairs would be even less successful now than it was then.
What this past history all means for the RX-8, I am not sure. I will defer to Graphicguy on this as I haven't read any books on the Renesis.
As I remember them, the RX-7TT (one of my two favorite Japanese cars, the other being the Datsun 510 coupe) had a problem with engine detonation (pre-ignition). You had to be careful with it. An AWESOME car to drive, even today, and a drop-end BARGAIN in the used car market right now---but unlike the n/a rotary, it was a bit fragile.
Change your oil, stay out of the bad end of the redline, stay away from synthetic oil ( says Mazdatrix.com) and your n/a rotary engine should last a long long time IMHO.
And besides, rotary crate engines are not all that expensive.
hey all, correct me if I am wrong, but when I can't see the dash display, because of bright sunlight and my shades, I just turn the dimmer to the click stop. Then everything goes bright. I live here in sunny South FL and I've had a few bright days in the last 20,000 miles......works for me....
PathStar and Gguy (and all!) - advice time. ..ok...I was going to take a 2300 mile trip to Wisconsin last year...but work cancelled it for me....but I get to try again here in 3 weeks....except this time a bit more miles are requested - I am at 5800 round trip as of tonight! The plan takes me to Atlanta, Chicago, Madison, LaCrosse, Oshkosh, back to Lacrosse, Denver, Roswell (NW!! search for aliens!), Dallas, and back.......whew.....all in 21 days.....
so, what should I take other than a cell phone, CDs and a good pillow!?!......and a case of Red Bull!!.......
I'd throw in a couple of cases of slim jims....c 512 MB secure digital flash card (for all the pictures with your digital camera). A log book to write down everything you see/do and to post some impressions of how the RX8 does in diary form.....
Have a great and safe trip. Sounds like a blast!!!!!
Put a quart of oil in the trunk as well. The one thing about rotaries, they are very happy on the highway. Even my 3rd gen is very reliable on long highway trips. It's around town that you will experience any problems that may develop. I also keep a gallon of water "just in case". Never had to use it, but it's good to have - and can be used to drink or put out a small fire.
ok...either the 3 of us are all related (scary) or we're all about the same age (god forbid!) or we all grew up in the same area!!....because I already packed up my 1gig & 512 CF cards for my camera, the log book, the 2 quarts of oil, and the gallon of water , as well as the flashlight/towels/extra bags/etc.........slim jims...well...don't really eat alot of meat.....then again, they arn't really meat are they?......
thanks for the suggestions!.....called my relatives in NM.....the RX8 would've been toast yesterday - they shut down the interstate due to snow!....ack!!.....lol
I'll have to make a quick webpage for my trip...see if I can do that...hmmm...pix from the road....."Shima & Me".......hmmm....need a title guys!...
You don't want to be my age (hell, I don't want to be my age).
Snow? In NM? That's scary!
I'm not sure what exactly slim jims are made of. All I know is when I get desperate, a slim jim and a big gulp satiates me until the next billboard says "See Rock City" comes around.
Great idea for the web site. You could title it "8-UP".
Bought the yellow 8 last night! Went with no moon (or sun, which is it?) roof and cloth. I really thought I wanted leather, but not that stiff as a board stuff they use - the cloth is rather huggy. Roof decision was due to the too-tall boyfriend I alluded to earlier. He fits in this one with no bloodshed. Getting used to the manual tranny and the rear-wheel drive has been stressful (yes, those things are stressful at my current age), but rewarding. Got a spoiler ordered from the dealer to jazz it up a little!!
Any thoughts or advise for a virgin rotary owner? I've read in the probs and maintenance to give a good little rev before shutdown to clear the fuel from the combustion chamber, good warm-ups, and check the oil often. What other nuggets of wisdom can I glean from you guys and gals?? Yes, I'm feeling rather spritely this morning (I'm a female so there's nothing ODD about that) with a new car and no payment book for nearly 30 days!!
Wish I was going on the trip, but I can't do slim jims. I'd have to take a hot pot for ramen noodles!!
Glad you're feeling "spritely" (what exactly did you do last night?)!
Glad your b/f fits....removing limbs can get messy.
I think you've got the regimen down right. Check the oil every 2nd-3rd fill-up. Keep revs down under 6K for about 500 miles. Every once in a while, rip it to the 9K redline. After than, all bets are off.
The manual tranny in the RX8 is one of the best in all of cardom. It shoudln't take you long to get used to it. The RX8 SHOULD handle better than anything you've ever driven. It'll take a few miles to understand what the car can/can't do, but the limits are very high. If you've got trac/stability control, you'll notice that if you get into trouble on the twisties, it will "snap" you back in place (done that a few times, myself), but it won't keep you out of the weeds if you get too crazy. Laws of physics don't change.
lhess -(I knew a Miss L. Hess in college! Excellent flute player , as I remember!) - as gguy said Congrats!...welcome to the zoom zoom club! Don't let gguy fool ya, he's as 'spritely' as any of us here......
Don't know what part of the country you live in, but if you are in the parts that get snow, do the tire/wheel switch. (and whomever dumped 2 feet of snow in Wisconsin, please, remove it asap. I will be there in 2 weeks....lol.....)
gguy - great idea '8-Up'...I will attempt to make a site. Might add a tunes section so those visiting, to view my Rx8 pix, can listen to some tunes as well!....(no, I do not have alot of free time, but I am kinda wacky!)
pathstar & gguy - ok, what can I use to 'glue' or 'stick' back down the drivers side, door sill, metal name plate? One edge is starting to pop up and when I push down on it, it will stay - for about 2 seconds and then pop back up....it only sticks up, maybe a 16th of an inch, but I know it will catch on something sooner or later. (Ok, I admit it - I did cause it to pop up in the first place. While washing/cleaning the car, I got a towel stuck under the edge and it came up.)
Those are just about the only agrivating thing on this car! I don't think there is any way to keep them in place with glue or tape. The plastic expands/contracts a lot differently than the aluminum the plate is made of. I suggest removing the door sill, removing the name plate, cutting slots in the door sill and drilling holes in the plate and using two stainless 6-32 screws. You will need the slots in the door sill to allow give for expansion/contraction. Put then in the sill so the plate will cover them.
Here in Edmonton Alberta the plates stick for only about 3 months. We see a wide temp. range here - 90 F in the summer and down to -50F in the winter. I have seen the springtime temp. go from -20 to +20 in one day! Oh, and yes, it's snowing. It's been snowing since last tuesday. The winter snow had just all melted and now it's being "refurbished". ;-)
How's your 8 in cold temperatures (I mean realy cold , -20 C and below). I heard there's no block heater available for the RX8. I don't think any car will survive an Alberta winter without one. I live in Calgary and I'm looking into an 05 RX8. I need to park outside all the time.
The car will most likely flood if you try to start it below -25C or so. Our dealer has agreed to install an oil pan heater. A battery heater also helps. I see no reason not to install a recirculating heater in the heater hose, but Mazda claim it will confuse the PCM and allow the engine to rev. too high on startup. I think the combination of an oil pan heater and the recirc. heater would be ok as the oil would be warm so reving up at startup shouldn't cause a problem. Installing the ultra-hot plugs helps to avoid the flooding a little, but you have to remove them once it warms up in the spring (if it ever comes).
There was a "block heater" for the RX-7 - it was external and mounted around the spark plugs. It wouldn't fit the renesis engine though due to the engine mounts.
pathstar1, Im trying to find pricing for Air outlet garnish. The local dealer (Toronto) wants $450ish for both sides. I have relatives in the Calgary area, so was wondering if they where cheaper out west, if not are you able to negotiate for other add ons
Mugster1, I'm pretty sure you can find those outlet strakes online a lot cheaper than that, there are a few places that sell them, some even on Ebay. (Got my last post pulled for posting the link, oops!)
You can install them yourself supposedly, at least I have seen some guides to doing that on various RX8 forums.
Just got home with my new 04 6MT 8. Black with the sport package, and a dream to drive! First manual car I've had in a while so I'm having to get used to shifting again though.
Waiting patiently for the snow to go - ok maybe not so patiently.
bought my RX8 last July - 6MT, Blue, GT, managed to put 6000 km on before the snow came, then put to bed for winter
Could have got the snow tires, but couldn't bear to see my 8 full of salt and grime
Have been reviewing several posts where people are disgruntled with their 8's for a number of reasons - some minor, some more so
However, I'm overjoyed with my 8, and the only drawback I can think of, is that I live in Canada, where enjoying this car year round isn't really possible
had the boyfriends 2 kids (adults, actually) here for easter and everyone took the 8 for a test drive. it was a hit - everyone was surprised with it's performance and "fun-to-drive factor." got his daughter and son-in-law actually thinking about trading down the yukon denali for a smaller suv and having some fun with a flirty car for a while. i like their yukon, but if i wanted to drive a tank all the time, i'd be in iraq helping out!!
Comments
I submitted a few quote requests from various local dealers. I'll post the pricing once I get them and try to get further feedback from you guys.
and how are you feeling?...hopefuly, well!
Yes, I ordered a Mustang GT. After test driving the GTO and Mustang extensively and comparing them together, there really aren't any significant performance differences.
While the Mustang is much lighter on its feet than the GTO, I have no illusions that it's going to be a match for the RX8. Several things drove me towards the Mustang over the GTO. First, all the controls of the Mustang are done very well (very RX8ish in feel) and work with a "smoothness" that the GTO can't match (controls felt "stiff" and less refined by comparison). The finishing details of the Mustang are better than in the GTO. Just one example, little details like the passenger airbag is integrated very nicely in the Mustang. In typical GM fashion, they slapped a passenger airbag door on the dash and that was the end of it. Not very integrated at all. The GTO's operation of the "little things" were slow and complex in comparison to the Mustang. Trying to do something as simple as putting in a CD in the stereo is maddeningly slow. The front seat latches take a long time to operate. These are "nitpicks", but things that would frustrate me over time. The Mustang took a page out of the RX8s book. You can tell the Mustang designers put more thought into the interior than GM's designers. Controls and their functions are very intuitive with the Mustang. There's a certain elegance in their simplicity.
The aluminum touches on the steering wheel, the dash and the vents in the Mustang are very nice. I liked those touches better in the Mustang. I'm not certain the color changing guages will be something I use a lot, but they are pretty "cool". As they say, the devil is in the details. I was surprised at the details that Ford got right. I felt right at home in the Mustang (again, the feel is very similar to the RX8).
Mustang is very nicely built, both inside and out. It felt "more of a piece" than the GTO did.
It helped that I liked the styling (in and out) much better of the Mustang. The GTO interior is no slouch, though.
Mustang runs on regular gas. GTO asks for premium. Mustang has a much bigger trunk than either the RX8 or the GTO.
Then, there's the not so insignificant price difference. The '05 GTO was about $4,500 more than the loaded up Mustang GT I ordered. Same performance, better handling (GTO felt heavy by comparison), nice interior, better styling, better price....it became a "no brainer" in the Mustang's favor.
Hopefully, mine will be in sometime in the next 3 weeks. I came close to pulling the trigger on a "Shimka" RX8 this past weekend because I'm getting tired of sharing my son's car with him. I can hold out another 3 weeks, though.
RX8 dipstick....yes, it's a little tough to reach. I consider it a minor thing, though. Once you get under the hood a few times, you know right where to reach. Getting it back into the dipstick hole at night will test your vision, though.
Non-turbo Rx-7s do a little better. With regular maintenance, the could last about the same as a piston engine. Without regular maintenance they wouldn't likely make it anywhere near 100K miles.
I feel like I understand the pros and cons of the engine pretty well. It is the reliability of all the other stuff I was wondering about.
I've heard the burns from airbags can be nasty.
It sounds like you will have fun in your new Mustang. Have you talked to your insurance agent to see the price difference in insurance premiums? I'm must curious as to how much more the Mustang will be. (or if it would be less)
Being able to run 87 octane gas would be nice, (I know there are folks running 87 in their RX-8s without problems, but I'm kind of afraid to go below Mid-grade)
Did you take the stang convertible out for a spin. Curious how it felt compared to the coupe.
What exactly is the front and rear rotary accents and its purpose?
Thanks again for the help!
My RX8 experience was great, but given the opportunity, I did take advantage of driving a bunch of cars. The Mustang "struck" me. Ford did a very nice job on them...in and out. Plus, the performance is intoxicating (but, so is the RX8's...just in a different way).
Insurance agent doesn't expect there to be much, if any, difference. But, I really don't know exactly if/what kind of rate change to expect. That said, I'm also a 40ish year old male.
I did drive a convertible GT. Excellent convertible. Very solid....for a convertible. It was probably the fastest convertible I've ever driven, too. But, dealership was just getting them in. The one I drove had a $2K over MSRP "market adjustment" sticker on it....and that's with snow still on the ground when I drove it. Didn't drive it with the top down for obvious reasons, however.
Around southern OH, a convertible is good maybe 3-4 months out of the year. Outside of that, it's either too cold or too hot for reasonable top down fun.
Let them sit too long or go too long without oil changes and they just won't last.
Not that it matters much to the people here - no true enthusiast would mistreat their rotary. But, it is something to think about as RX-8s start showing up on the market with some miles on them. There are a lot of non-enthusiasts complaining about the maintenance requirements of these cars, and others who aren't complaining because they never bother to check the oil, etc.
Rotary accents are purely cosmetic. They are little "silver triangles" that go on the lower bumper in the front and the back. At the very least, get the side strakes if you want to upgrade the look.
Buying a used anything, with no record of proper maintenance is always a risk.
No reason to think that a rotary would have less durability than any other traditional engine. Matter of fact, I'd say their durablity may be even better given that the RENESIS only has 9 moving parts.
I would be able to get side strakes from the dealer as well, correct? Are those the two little things that are behind the front wheels? And how much would that run me for? And also, are the side strakes mainly for looks?
I plan on ordering some clear corners from rotaryextreme.com as well, that is if everything falls through appropriately. What color are the stealth amber lights for the clear corners?
I apologize for the numerous questions. Just want to make sure I'm knowledgable before plopping out money to purchase a car.
lhess....I'm 6' even and weigh 190 lbs. If you're like me, my cars last longer than my girlfriends so they never enter the picture in my car choices since I'll eventually have the car long after the girlfriend is gone.
I will use an example of another car to kind of show my point. My wife bought a 2000 BMW new. The computer "told" us to change the oil on average about every 15K miles. I would guess that a BMW engine would be good for maybe 150K to 200K using that interval. An rotary engine might be good for 50K to 75K miles using the same interval.
Going back over the past thirty years, it is pretty clear that the rotary engine is far less durable than a piston engine. They are sweet running engines and a wonderfully simple design. The problem is that Mazda can't seem to improve the reliability or the fuel mileage of the engine. As a result, I doubt you will ever see the rotary in any car that is more than a boutique item (they tried it in pickups and sedans in the past and failed pretty miserably).
The sum of it is that the great god of rotaries giveth but he also taketh away.
Have you considered a shorter boyfriend or a tall boyfriend who cusses and whines less?
Over the last 30 years, I've seen no indications whatsoever that a rotary engine is any less durable than a piston engine.
I don't know where you're getting your information from, but clearly it's misguided.
MPG of sports cars aren't the best. The RX8 is no different. It's going to offer about the same MPG as any other car with about the same performance level.
A quick google search would probably get you a rotary history including some of the problems over the years. For the first several years, they were abysmal in reliability. A good history of Mazda will explain how the rotary engine almost put them out of business in the 1970s due to huge warranty claims followed by the resulting low sales.
Any number of long-term tests done by the car magazines in the mid 90s revealed the reliability woes with the third generation engine (and just about everything else on the car).
The host, Mr. Shiftright, could probably provide an accurate second opinion. But pretty much everything I am telling you isn't opinion, but fairly easy to verify facts.
As for the mileage, any number of smaller engined sports car handily beat the RX-8 in mileage and performance, most notably an S2000. A Lotus Elise will probably nearly double the real world mpg of the RX-8.
If you're talking about the '60s WANKEL engines, when production versions were first being developed by a host of manufaturer's (including GM's prototype Corvette version), then I'd say the initial Mazda rotary production cars of the '60s and early '70s, perhaps you could make a case for lack of durability. We're far, far removed from those, however.
I've got a couple of books on just the RENESIS development. Although no owners have enough miles on the RENESIS to really assess it's bulletproof nature, from all reports (mine included), they will be. Don't forget, the technology included in the RENESIS was born in the harsh trenches of a very successful racing development program. There are more similarities than differences between the racebred rotary compared to the production RENESIS found in the RX8.
While the S2000 is a fine car, MPG numbers aren't going to make or break most people's assessment of it's appeal as a daily driver. The Lotus Elise is also a tasty number, but given Lotus' dismal history with reliability issues, it isn't going to endear anyone based on its MPG numbers. As a sports car, comparing the RX8's MPG numbers to its competition (mainly the 350Z, perhaps a new Mustang GT or other U.S. born muscle and some of the turbo'd cars), the MPG is right in line with the rest.
Aside from the RX8, the 3rd gen turbo RX7 is probably one of the most desireable cars around for those who are looking for a car that is at home on the track as it is on the street.
I suppose you could wear blinders and only look at some problems with the rotary, but I doubt it will be any more or less meaningful than doing a search for troubles with any given piston engine.
As pathstar will attest (since he's gotten his hands dirty with remapping the ECU for even more performance gains), the "quirks" have been addressed by Mazda with re-flashing the ECU in the production cars from their initial state when they first hit these shores almost two years ago.
Does anyhone know if the display be brightened? The salesman didn't know - he just sort of lamely pointed out that there would be no problem seeing it at night.
Knowing I wan't too keen on black, he also noted that all cars were black at midnight.
You had yourself a real Einstein there......
Can't address the problem of the digital speedo washing out when you had sunglasses on; sounds like a polarization problem perhaps. I'm sure gguy will chime in with good advise shortly.
The 3rd gen. did have "reliability problems" that could be considered serious. My unit lost an engine and turbos (replaced under warrenty) at 20,000 km. The initial problems included:
a) The coolant pressure was set too high (to reduce coolant boiling). The high pressure caused the front turbo coolant hose to burst - it was weakened by the radiant heat from the turbo housing. Glycol is flamable, and when that hose burst it sometimes resulted in a fire - hence my cars' loss of the engine and turbos. The fix was a lower pressure rad. cap. and better hoses.
b) The interior plastic was cast shiny and smooth but was then painted flat black without proper prep. The paint tends to peel.
c) The 3rd gen extracts 255 HP from the 1.3L engine, more in later years that weren't imported to North America (the later year models are reliable). Meticulous maintenance is necessary as any failure in the engine/turbo system can result in overboosting, and that can be fatal for the engine. The turbo sequential system is rather complex, too complex for most dealer mechanics. That resulted in poor maintenance and I would estimate a 30% loss of engines for that reason and owners doing mods. without really knowing what they were doing. These problems were not serious for the 2nd gen turbo RX-7, as it had a simpler single turbo system and produced less HP.
d) I would estimate 50% of the 93-95 yr RX-7s were lost due to drivers caught without enough skill - they ran off the road, or into other objects due to the extreme performance of the car. I know during the first year I owned the car I was fearful of the accellerator pedal. If pressed without great care things happened almost too fast to react! I got my car when it was 5 yrs. old. Still running and just passed 90,000 km - modded to around 320 HP and still running strong.
The normally aspirated (NA) 2nd gen RX-7 is probably the best car to learn from re estimating the RX-8's future reliability. The NA second gen commonly exceeded 200,000 mi on the engine. As has been stated many times by both me and others, the oil and coolant must be maintained - failure of either can result in a lost engine. The same can be said of any piston engine, though most of them are less sensitive - but loss of oil pressure is fatal to any engine and loss of coolant will destroy any engine within a few minutes if allowed to continue to run.
As a curious asside, the NA 2nd gen was not sold in Japan. All RX-7s sold there were turbos, including convertables (here all convertables were normally aspirated).
i did consider cutting either his legs or his head off (preferably his head) to make him fit better, but that would have been pretty messy in a test car!!
THANKS PATHSTAR!
My sentiments, exactly. Without proper maintenance (as in letting a BMW oil changes lapse to 15K miles, just because the computer says so), no engine, piston or rotary, will last.
Turbos, in any car, have been both a blessing and a curse, IMHO. While they do offer a "boost" in performance, they also generate tremendous amounts of heat, which is the achilles heal of any engine. I try to stay away from them for that very reason.
I only drove a '95 Turbo'd RX7 once and briefly many years ago. I thought I was fairly experienced from running at Mid-Ohio. I wasn't prepared for what that RX7 would do, however. It literally scared me with the type of "rush" it offered in the performance dept.....and that was on a closed track.
Regarding the digi speedo washing out....yes, polarized sunglasses are the culprit. Some polarized sunglasses are better than others. The "cheapies" tend to be worse for "washout" than something along the lines of Serengettis.
lhess....time for a new boyfriend (preferably one of normal size).....LOL!
My favorite rx was the 7 models of 1993. Nothing but pure power with great handling. I hope Mazda builds a new one. I like the sophistication of the RX8 but for pure acceleration nothing tops the 93 RX7 turbos.
I am 6'2" and 275 lbs. I fit fine. I agree that the passenger side is pretty cramped for me. The lady with the tall boy friend should let him try to drive it. He may fit.
By the way does anyone know where I can sell a factory spoiler for an RX8 I had purchased it and then sold the car that needed it and leased another RX that had the spoiler on already.
Glad to see all the RX8 activity, lets keep it going.
I also love the third gen cars, but the issues with them kind of scare me. I would guess that taking one to a Mazda dealer for repairs would be even less successful now than it was then.
What this past history all means for the RX-8, I am not sure. I will defer to Graphicguy on this as I haven't read any books on the Renesis.
Change your oil, stay out of the bad end of the redline, stay away from synthetic oil ( says Mazdatrix.com) and your n/a rotary engine should last a long long time IMHO.
And besides, rotary crate engines are not all that expensive.
PathStar and Gguy (and all!) - advice time. ..ok...I was going to take a 2300 mile trip to Wisconsin last year...but work cancelled it for me....but I get to try again here in 3 weeks....except this time a bit more miles are requested - I am at 5800 round trip as of tonight! The plan takes me to Atlanta, Chicago, Madison, LaCrosse, Oshkosh, back to Lacrosse, Denver, Roswell (NW!! search for aliens!), Dallas, and back.......whew.....all in 21 days.....
so, what should I take other than a cell phone, CDs and a good pillow!?!......and a case of Red Bull!!.......
Have a great and safe trip. Sounds like a blast!!!!!
thanks for the suggestions!.....called my relatives in NM.....the RX8 would've been toast yesterday - they shut down the interstate due to snow!....ack!!.....lol
I'll have to make a quick webpage for my trip...see if I can do that...hmmm...pix from the road....."Shima & Me".......hmmm....need a title guys!...
:-)
You don't want to be my age (hell, I don't want to be my age).
Snow? In NM? That's scary!
I'm not sure what exactly slim jims are made of. All I know is when I get desperate, a slim jim and a big gulp satiates me until the next billboard says "See Rock City" comes around.
Great idea for the web site. You could title it "8-UP".
Any thoughts or advise for a virgin rotary owner? I've read in the probs and maintenance to give a good little rev before shutdown to clear the fuel from the combustion chamber, good warm-ups, and check the oil often. What other nuggets of wisdom can I glean from you guys and gals?? Yes, I'm feeling rather spritely this morning (I'm a female so there's nothing ODD about that) with a new car and no payment book for nearly 30 days!!
Wish I was going on the trip, but I can't do slim jims. I'd have to take a hot pot for ramen noodles!!
Glad you're feeling "spritely" (what exactly did you do last night?)!
Glad your b/f fits....removing limbs can get messy.
I think you've got the regimen down right. Check the oil every 2nd-3rd fill-up. Keep revs down under 6K for about 500 miles. Every once in a while, rip it to the 9K redline. After than, all bets are off.
The manual tranny in the RX8 is one of the best in all of cardom. It shoudln't take you long to get used to it. The RX8 SHOULD handle better than anything you've ever driven. It'll take a few miles to understand what the car can/can't do, but the limits are very high. If you've got trac/stability control, you'll notice that if you get into trouble on the twisties, it will "snap" you back in place (done that a few times, myself), but it won't keep you out of the weeds if you get too crazy. Laws of physics don't change.
Don't know what part of the country you live in, but if you are in the parts that get snow, do the tire/wheel switch. (and whomever dumped 2 feet of snow in Wisconsin, please, remove it asap. I will be there in 2 weeks....lol.....)
gguy - great idea '8-Up'...I will attempt to make a site. Might add a tunes section so those visiting, to view my Rx8 pix, can listen to some tunes as well!....(no, I do not have alot of free time, but I am kinda wacky!)
pathstar & gguy - ok, what can I use to 'glue' or 'stick' back down the drivers side, door sill, metal name plate? One edge is starting to pop up and when I push down on it, it will stay - for about 2 seconds and then pop back up....it only sticks up, maybe a 16th of an inch, but I know it will catch on something sooner or later. (Ok, I admit it - I did cause it to pop up in the first place. While washing/cleaning the car, I got a towel stuck under the edge and it came up.)
Here in Edmonton Alberta the plates stick for only about 3 months. We see a wide temp. range here - 90 F in the summer and down to -50F in the winter. I have seen the springtime temp. go from -20 to +20 in one day! Oh, and yes, it's snowing. It's been snowing since last tuesday. The winter snow had just all melted and now it's being "refurbished". ;-)
There was a "block heater" for the RX-7 - it was external and mounted around the spark plugs. It wouldn't fit the renesis engine though due to the engine mounts.
You can install them yourself supposedly, at least I have seen some guides to doing that on various RX8 forums.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD, 2025 Toyota Camry SE AWD
bought my RX8 last July - 6MT, Blue, GT, managed to put 6000 km on before the snow came, then put to bed for winter
Could have got the snow tires, but couldn't bear to see my 8 full of salt and grime
Have been reviewing several posts where people are disgruntled with their 8's for a number of reasons - some minor, some more so
However, I'm overjoyed with my 8, and the only drawback I can think of, is that I live in Canada, where enjoying this car year round isn't really possible
So, just waitin for the snow to go .....
They can't get an RX8, they won't know how to drive something that doesn't steer like a barge....LOL!