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>>Hello everyone. A couple of things. I had my car (2003 9-3 Linear) in yesterday for an oil change. It had 14,501 and no oil warning light came on. The service manager said that while he has seen it come on as late as 15,000, he would just do it because the light “should have come on already or soon will” and that, “coming back in 3 days is a waste of time for both of us.” So that debunks two “myths” (I think I saw) on this site: (a) Light comes on no later than 14,400 and (b) dealer won’t do free service unless light comes on.<<
I suggest you re-read what you think you saw. “No later than 14,400” was never said, in the discussion we had a few weeks ago. And MOST dealers will not do the service without the light, you were lucky (like hungshy said he was). Were you there for something else? Is that how the dealer said he'd do it, while you were there?
>>To be honest, it is all a bit overwhelming. The two base scenarios (as I understand it) are: (a) 150 watt system and (b) 300 watt system. If someone has the 300 watt system, replacing the existing speakers with new ones seems to make a great difference. However, I have the 150 watt system, and from what I read, it is a great deal more work, as you have to add an amp, etc. to get good sound.
What about just adding better speakers (no-amp)? Can anyone confirm or deny this? I’d like to get some better sound out of my vehicle, but don’t want to spend more than $500 (including labor). <<
Change the front 3.5”s & rear 4” & go from there. You should see a noticeable difference. Boston Acoustics FX series and Infinity Reference are 2 brands that fit the space and have been used with success. If you want more bass, you can go 2 ways: replace the door speakers with 2 ohm replacements (very tough to find, and pricy) – or run an amp off of the door speaker signal to a subwoofer or 6x9 that you can put in the empty holes in the rear shelf. Adding the amp will probably put you over $500, while just upgrading speakers should not
>>The thing that most confuses me is the posts that quote Saab as saying, “The audio system now uses fiber optics, so standard speakers will not work.” How can this be the case? I seriously doubt the $5 speakers they use in the car are digital (fiber connected). <<
I’m not sure what posts say this, but it’s incorrect. The amps are connected to the head unit thru fiber. The speakers come out of the amps the old fashioned way – copper speaker wire.
>>On a related topic, how do you know if you have the latest version of the software? The dealer’s log from yesterday shows they updated the infotainment system, but I still can’t get AUX to show up (albeit, I don’t have an input cable attached to the head unit). I’m thinking about having someone do the AUX-IN upgrade for me so I can hook up my MP3 player. <<
Did you ask them specifically to enable AUX in? It doesn’t come with a software upgrade, they have to change settings with the TECH2 device. Some dealers gladly do it, some say it isn’t supported yet and won’t do it
Here are the instructions
Main menu: Add/Remove
Add module
Then scroll down select "ICM"
It then reads what your system already has etc... then scroll down select "Aux Input"
Then add it, then system reboots etc, stereo goes on then off,
>>Lastly, I got a letter from OnStar saying my 1-year was up soon. I thought Saab was giving us 2-years since it took them forever to get OnStar working. Is it worth getting if I have to pay for it myself? I never use it (Safe and Sound). If it were $100 a year, maybe, but $200 is a huge waste it seems. Comments? <<
If you had the Onstar installed retroactively, you got 2 years, I believe. Only if they had to bring the car back in and install it.
I’ll probably renew for the safety features and having a backup cellphone
It's distressing to hear about the rattles and squeaks and electric bugs on the Linear models. I wonder if the AERO has suffered the same issues? It's unfortunate that the Linear has such build problems.
Onstar = Bonus to us. Handsfree phone, stored numbers, movie times, directions, etc. I doubt I will buy a new car without it.
I'm guessing the center one isn't worth touching. Yea? Nea? Based on the info I've gathered online, I'm going to look at some better 3.5" (4-ohm) L&R dash speakers and 4.0" (4-ohm) L&R rear speakers. And if possible, 6.5" (2-ohm) L&R door speakers.
Let me ask you this, would it be worth removing (or orphaning) the rear 4.0" speakers and replacing them with 6x9" speakers, or is that just a waste of money since the filter strips out any bass to those speakers?
Thanks for answering those questions. I appreciate the clear and concise reply. =8) _______________________________
I replaced the center speaker, but it's not nearly as important as the left and rights. I bought a lesser name brand, that had decent specs (Aura RPM)and there's someimprovement. If you can get a single Boston, that would be fine, but I wouldn't pay for 2 (though you can probably sell one).
And you're right, replacing the 4"s w/ 6x9 in the back probably wouldn't make a difference - they are mid and high only
Yea, SC is pretty good. Though I do think the focus there is different from here. I kind of think one as the "business" place and the other as the "technical" place. Can't have one without the other.
Well, I'll let you know how it sounds. I'm not thrilled about spending $442 + labor (I'm guessing $100). Gotta figure out where to buy them at. No real deals on the web from what I see. But then again, once I'm done with this, I could stop complaining about this subject and worry about more important stuff (like what to have for dinner)
We are considering European Delivery of a 9 3 Convertible next summer. Can anyone share their experiences? Are invoice prices available for ED purchases? Any comparisons to BMW's program?
I haven't been able to find out which models of the Saab 93 and Saab 95 use premium gas or regular unleaded. I know someone with a 93 Arc and I believe they use regular unleaded. Does anyone know? Thanks!
I have a 2004 9-3 Arc and I believe the requirement is 90 octane. Where I live, generally premium is 92 and midgrade is 89, so I use the midgrade. I have noticed what's called "premium" varies a lot so you might need premium where you are.
I have a 2003 9-3 Arc and I only use premium. When I picked up my car, in discussions with the folks at the dealership, they recommended premium or if I wanted to "cheap out" regular. they specifically said mid grade was not worth the money, at least in Rochester, NY. Of course they also said there would be a loss of performance with regular over premium.
I have been getting in the low 20s mpg around town and upper 20s even low 30s on the highway. I always get worse mileage in the winter around here because of the additives for winter gas and yes I tend to drive a little aggressively so that also hurts mileage. The premium gas gives me good performance for now. Upgrades need to wait until I have really broken in the engine and convince myself I can afford to do them (new intake, exhaust, and other non-warranty destroying items).
The Saab European Delivery forum was closed for inactivity. One of the last posts claimed that you cannot finance or lease a Saab if you use ED. That is unbelievable since you can through the programs at BMW, Mercedes, Volvo etc.. Anyone have current info? Having to pay cash would be a deal breaker for most people so much that I don't think the ED program could go on if all buyers had to pay cash or use a home equity line or personal loan.
I've recently started to have a loud noise that sounds like some sort of metal on metal grinding or harsh low pitched squeal when moving in reverse. This is particularly bad when turning, such as when parallel parking. The car is a 2004 9-3 Arc with less than 3K miles.
According to SaabCentral a couple of people have had the same issue and resolved it by having their rotors sanded. Has anyone here had a similar experience? Wouldn't this possibly reduce the useful life of the brake rotors? This is a concern because in my personal experience GM rotors lack durability and the warranty on these is already pretty weak as is.
Through April, Saab is giving $500 instant rebate, and GM is adding another $3,500 dealer incentive on 9-3 Linears. (Less on Arc & Aero). On top of the GMS pricing, I got another $4k off.
The car itself is wonderful. Best in class for roominess. 5-star crash rating in European tests. Very handsome interior & exterior design. Handles like a dream. Turbo is great.
And on the Linear, you really don't need anything more than regular gas.
Through April, Saab is giving $500 instant rebate, and GM is adding another $3,500 dealer incentive on 9-3 Linears. (Less on Arc & Aero). On top of the GMS pricing, I got another $4k off.
The car itself is wonderful. Best in class for roominess. 5-star crash rating in European tests. Very handsome interior & exterior design. Handles like a dream. Turbo is great.
And on the Linear, you really don't need anything more than regular gas.
I hear the grinding noise almost everytime I backup. Both straight or turning. Best I can see, it's the rotor touching off on the caliper. Only happens when I have the brakes on, so I believe it;s the back loading of the caliper drags it down in contact with the rotor. Never had it happen moving forward. Haven't decided whether it's the front or rear rotors yet. Sounds like if you complain to Saab, the dealer sands or cuts down the outer edge of the rotor. Hope they do it on a lathe. Not sure which is worse, the touch condition in reverse, or getting the rotors machined. Doesn't appear to be catestrophic, and the noise is barely there.
My dealer was able to fix the noise, at least for now. The service person told me that the fix was grinding the rear pads down on the edges, rather than the rotors. They also applied an "anti squeal" solution to the pads. He said that they had fixed a couple of other cars that way as well. So far, so good.
just curious... my company is a gm supplier so every month their website lists 3-4K additional off a linear but says to "see your local saab dealer for details". I tried calling around but couldn't really get a straight answer on exactly what starting price you can get the discount from. It sounds like "buffalony" used this program... any insight? I'm looking at a very basic linear with the only option being a sunroof. Any info appreciated... thx, chris
I've really come to hate my 9-3 Linear. My lease has almost two years left and it's making me miserable.
The stereo is so bad I either listen to talk radio or leave it off (it's leased so I'm NOT going to spend my money on an aftermarket upgrade). I wrote to SAAB when I first got it to complain -- and they politely said, in effect, "too bad, go pound sound."
It keeps developing new squeeks and rattles. Which are even more annoying since the stereo is turned off.
Before this I leased a 9-5, it was a great car. Now that GM has taken complete control it is obvious they've dropped the quality down to their levels from European levels (much less Japanese levels).
I'm dreading the continuing deterioration over the next two years -- can't wait to turn it in at the end of the lease and get a quality car and again be able to listen to music when I drive.
There were two 9-5's in my family before the 9-3ss, but now I'm done with SAAB. I want a quality car, not a piece of badge engineered GM crap.
I have followed this site intermittently from the beginning, and posted alot prior to buying 18 months ago. I have 16K on a '03 linear launch package 5 speed, 4th saab since '83 and i must have dodged the bullets, as i've had no problems. This has been the highest quality least serviced saab i've owned. stereo quality has never been too impt. to me (my 83 900 T, 91 9000T, 2000 9-3, all manuals all had tolerable at best sound) but i've always loved the unique, front wheel, good in snow, stiff ride. I've had no squeaks, stalls, noises, grinding, or malfunctions of any kind. My biggest complaint is i changed my oil at 3500 and 12,000 and saab would not pay because it was too early (for 45 bucks who really cares). I get a 9-5 loaner every time I service (only for inspections so far) While i might upgrade the stereo, i'm waiting for our local high end stereo up grade shop to have more information on 9-3's, as i want it to be integrated into the current informatic display (which is way too complicated) Maybe this site attracts the problem cars, but I suspect most 9-3 owners are pretty happy. a relatively inexpensive, safe fun car with alot of versatility.
1st let me say, my 03 9.3 arc is the most pleasureable driving car i've had in years, previous drives have been bmw530, benzE3204matic, volvo 850's. dealer in shrewsbury new jersey has also been exceptional, although i've only visited once for an oil change, brake squealing problem and tech11 changes. the front brakes squealed occasionally, the dealer acknowledged the problem and replaced front pads - have not had any problems since then. car now has 9K miles on it.
According to the employee & supplier discount document I have from GM, a base linear with no options other than a sunroof ($27,965 MSRP w/ transportation) should run $26,523.00 with the supplier discount, including "transportation, prep and handling". Prep and handling does not apply to retail cars, only employee/supplier discounted ones. You could almost certainly do better than that; any current incentives (rebates or price support) available to the general public still apply. The document I have is about 4 months old; I am not sure how often this sort of thing is updated.
Swung by dealer, wanted to try an arc because of ideas about ride quality, snow traction, etc. But i wanted a manual tranny so they brought me an areo to drive.
I like the interior of this car, but found the parking brake tricky and the interior not quite as high quality as my old 97 '900 SET. Found working with the clutch a bit iffy at first due to my lack of experience with a turbo clutch car. Felt more turbo lag than i expected, but plenty of high-end is there. Need to have car over 3000 RPM for the power to really come on, i think. Car has more peak power than my 328i but the turbo lag makes it feel weaker, IMHO. Didn't have any problems at all with the six speed; was a nice unit. Overall the ride was a lot more quiet and compliant than i expected for the sport suspension and the 17 inch rims. There is more interior room than the other cars in this class, i think. I loved the sport seats ( light and dark gray, gorgeous ). The trunk is very large.
Overall, i liked the 9-3 the most out of the cars i've test-driven, the issues were still turbo-lag and interior quality but every car has some issues, even a porsche 911 turbo.
I'm still reluctant to trade my old car now that the depreciation curve seems to have flattened out, but we'll see. I'm looking for a "green car" i think, and the 9-3 aero doesn't promise better mileage than my '97 328i, so that's also a bit of a stumbling block to me. But overall i came away impressed.
If you want a green car the Accord is quite nice in EX-L trim, and gets 26/34 mpg with the 5-speed. Also quite peppy with the manual tranny. If you can wait a bit the Hybrid version should be out this fall.
Passat is also nice, but turbo lag is still there. The Jetta TDI gets prius like mileage, and handles nicely - might be a tad small. They might have the TDI passat with a manual this fall - right now just automatic.
What mileage are you getting with the BMW? I have an '03 Arc (same engine as the Aero) and average 25.5 MPG. That's in mixed driving w/ lots of traffic each day (and when I do have some breathing room on the highway, I'm usually at 75-80).
When I've taken longer trips that were pure, onobstructed highway, I get about 33 MPG @ 75-80 MPH.
That's about what i get. Hair less city, hair more highway. Although the 9-3 doubtlessly gets superior mileage, it's not better than some similar cars such as the 330i, acura TL, etc. When i bought my old 900 i really bought into the small-turbos-save gas argument, and i ended up being dissappointed to discover than a big pushrod v6 or even v8 could do as well.
Dudleyr, if i were to get a green car now, it would be a VW diesel and i'd use biodiesel. The 9-3 is a much nicer car than those others, IMO. Overall i'm very impressed, just not enough for the discretionary expense.
I'm glad to hear that the brake noise is not just on my car. I have a 9-3 Arc that has been problem plagued from the beginning. I'm also beginning to think that my dealer's techs are simply inept.
I complained of a slight squeal from the brakes which happened even when accelerating after just releasing the brakes. The dealer replaced the pads. Now, however, I have a horrible screeching sound when I back up (esp. when turning) which literally makes pedestrians on the sidewalk jump.
My dealer's response: "Saab knows about the problem but doen't know how to fix it. But its not a safety issue." Gee thanks, now I'm really reassured.
Also, in case anyone is interested, my oil change light came on around 8000 miles. I'm starting to think my car was a demo and then they rolled back the miles and sold it to me.
I've asked Saab to buy it back (for other problems mainly incl. stalling, gearbox malfunctions, faulty seat memory, etc..) but they refused. Lemon Law here I come!
I have a 2003 93 Linear that I've had for 2 months and it's been in the shop 4 times already. Just when I think it's OK, something else happens. It was in on Thursday; I drove a couple of hundred miles Friday and now back in the shop on Sat!!! Gearbox Malfunction is the latest issue! Similar situation to what someone else described. Can't even get the car out of Park! Of course, when you take it there, the error message is no longer displaying!!!
This is the worst car experience I have ever had! The ride is rough, the car is noisy. They've put spacers in the struts, but it rides as though there are no shocks! I keep hearing it's the way it's suppose to be... It has 17" wheels and the sports suspension. You feel EVERY little bump on the road! Another issue that I've had is what I call a clunking noise from the front end and another sound like a rusty spring expanding. Maybe I'm picky, but I don't expect to hear those noises on a new car. I'm embarrassed to have co-workers ride with me!
I'm just about to the point where I really hate driving this car and I'm already seriously considering selling/trading it. My last 2 cars were Volvo's - very minor problems when compared to this car. Even a 94 Acura and 88 Honda, that my kids have, ride better than this! The downside is the money I'll lose on a trade!
I've already talked with the dealership who will work with me on this (but that remains to be seen since my 2 month car is now a "used" car), but I'm hesitant to get another Saab based upon this experience. They tell me I'll be much happier with the 95 (I have to say I had a 95 for a loaner on Thursday, and what a difference!)
I do have to say the mileage is GREAT (especially with these higher gas prices)! I'm getting 35.2 mpg on the highway.
I will read the 93 Vs 95 forum, but if others have switched, where you happy with the result???
I had a leased 2000 9-5 and then when it was up went into the 2003 9-3ss Linear, so I know both.
All I can say is if you get the opportunity to go into a 9-5 take it!! Faaarrrr better quality. The 9-5 feels like a quality car; the 9-3 acts and feels like what it turns out to be, a badge-engineered Malibu. So, 9-5 high quality Euro engineering and manufacturing quality, or 9-3 low-quality GM engineering and manufacturing quality. The decision is a no-brainer.
Besides the squeeks and rattlers, the real turn-off for me has been the stereo that I leave turned off because it sounds so bad. Almsot $30k and I can't listen to the radio! And of course no stereo means that the squeeks and rattles are that much more annoying.
There have been two 9-5's in my family. Unfortunately the 9-3 demonstates that future SAAB's will just be at GM quality levels, some once the lease is done with the 9-3 I'm moving on.
Next stop, a Toyota / Lexus or Honda / Acura -- at least I'll get a quality vehicle with a decent stereo!
After about 3 weeks and well under a thousand miles since my dealer's "fix", my brake noise when reversing is back. As I thought, the dealer made a quick and temporary fix. They also have no clue about the slight, but annoying, squeal when braking at low speeds. Obviously, I am not happy.
However, in its defense, the 9-3 is hardly a badge engineered Malibu, have you sat in a Malibu? There is nothing visible to the eye that is even remotely similar and the powertrain is well differentiated as well. Badge engineering is like the Impreza / 9-2X, and the 9-3 / Malibu relationship is nothing like that. The chassis parts they primarily share are generally inconsequential. The 9-5 is a nice looking car, but I personally find the 9-5 interior hopelessly dated and a bit cheap looking; but then they've had a chance to work out the kinks in it and you can get it at steep discounts so I can see how it would appeal to some.
I found a new untitled 2003 Saab 9-3 SE convertible (it is a 2003, not a 2004). It has 100 miles on it, a manual transmission and the sport package (17 inches wheels, spoiler, etc). The dealer is asking $33,500 and according to him the MSRP is $10,000 more. How low can I go? What reasonable price can I propose? How much profit is the dealer making by selling it at $33,500? Is the dealer going to have a hard tome selling the car because it is a manual transmission, and/or an old model? What is my leverage? Thank you in advance for your help.
I have a 2003 9-3 Linear with 21k miles and it has been very trouble free. I did have to have a wheel hub replaced due to a bad ABS sensor and a loose piece of trim above the window. The dealer has given me a 9-5 as a loaner twice and I could not wait to get my 9-3 back. The 9-5 felt much more GM'ish to me than the 9-3.
I drive a 2003 9-3ss Linear; have since Feb 2003. Had a 9-5 for 3 years before that.
The 9-3ss is "badge-engineered" GM because it reeks of GM's usual low quality design and manufacture. The interior is filled with cheap looking and feeling hard plastic. At 14,000 miles my 9-3ss has squeeks and rattles galore -- the drivers B-pillar creaks constantly. The glove box rattles intermittently. The glove box door periodically refuses to open ... and then will pop open when I hit a bump. (By comparison, at 3 years / 36,000 miles the pre-total GM ownership designed 9-5 had zero squeeks or rattles).
And the so-called stereo sounds so bad I leave it turned off. A peek in the trunk reveals that the "rear speakers" on this $30k car look like nothing more than a couple of small clock radio speakers.
Typical GM bean-counter let's make it as cheap and low quality as we can get away with mentality. That is why it is a badge-engineered Malibu -- from the company that tried to pawn off a Cavalier as a Cadillac (remember the Cimarron) -- comes a turbocharged Malibu that they are trying to pawn off as a high-quality European sports sedan.
If you think that the relationship between the 9-3 and the Malibu is the same as the Cavalier / Cimarron, you need to get a clue. You have a right to complain about your car and of GM's influence, of course, but you are misusing the term "badge engineering" and obscuring any legitimate points you might otherwise make.
Fine. Have it your way. The 9-3ss is not a "badge-engineered" Malibu.
Still, it's quality is far below the 9-5, and is at the low level typical of GM, not a European car, much less Toyota / Honda levels.
The difference is that the 9-5 was engineered before GM took total control, the 9-3 after. So should we be surprised that the 9-3ss, and future SAAB's, will be designed and built to GM standards,not European or Asian ones?
Do you think the new 9-7 will be magically transformed from the Consumer Reports "black dotted" TrailBlazer to a quality vehicle, just because it has a SAAB grille attached on the Ohio assembly line?
And what of the next 9-5? I suppose the only question is whether it will be derived from a Lumina or an Impala.
Heh, I hate to break this to you, buddy, but American cars, although they rank lower than Japanese cars, have much fewer problems than European cars. European cars have no claim to fame after MB lost their reliablity in 2k.
I don't get this "clueless mentality" when people talk about European cars. For the most part (other than the Mercedes' of the pre 2k) they have never been a reliable car, collectively. When was the last time you saw any 5 year old European car that didn't leave a puddle on the ground while parked?
I have been looking at the 9-3 Convertible and have one now on a 24 hour test drive. I've also driven a new Malibu when I had my Tahoe in for service recently. They are NOTHING alike. And, for what it's worth, the Malibu (save it's cloth seats) had a much better fit and finish than the 9-3 convertible I have in my garage right now.
While I really like the 9-3 and it's styling. I'll probably be getting a Toyota Solara Convertible because I just don't think the 9-3 is going to do well.
I agree that in recent years Euro cars -- especially Mercedes and VW -- have been poor when it comes to reliability. Very disappointing.
But Euro cars have always had 1) great fit and finish; 2) industry leading safety; 3) great handling / performance.
The Japanese for at least the last three decades have had 1) great fit and finish; 2) industry leading reliability; 3) are rapidly catching up on safety engineering, if not there already.
Since the late 1960's the Americans have had 1) terrible fit and finish (don't you just love the hard grey plastic of GM vehicles!); 2) industry lagging reliability (they may be comparable or even slightly ahead of Euro / MB / VW at the moment, but does anyone believe that the Euro's won't get their act together, whereas Detroit will continue the "business as usual" they've been doing for 30+ years); 3) mediocre safety engineering; 4) mediocre performance and handling. Whether innovative engineering, quality engineering, quality manufacture, reliability or safety, one thinks of Detroit last, behind Japan, behind Europe.
NAME JUST ONE DETROIT PRODUCT SINCE 1970 THAT ONE COULD CALL AN INDUSTRY LEADING, WORLD CLASS VEHICLE. THERE ARE NONE! ZERO. ZIP. NADA.
This is all a result of the mind-set of the corporate leadership.
The Japanese executives understand the quality is what has made them go from a non-player to 30+% of the U.S. market.
The European executives are often enthusiasts themselves, and have understood that they couldn't compete on price and so emphasized safety, fit and finish and performance.
Detroit's executives are MBA finance guys who would be just as happy working for a soap company as an automobile company, and only care about maximizing the numbers and the value of their stock options, and if that means producing mediocre and crappy products to maximize short term profits so be it -- it's no accident that Detroit has been losing market share for decades.
>>I drive a 2003 9-3ss Linear; have since Feb 2003. Had a 9-5 for 3 years before that.
The 9-3ss is "badge-engineered" GM because it reeks of GM's usual low quality design and manufacture. The interior is filled with cheap looking and feeling hard plastic. <<
This just is not true. All of the buttons on the center stack, as well as the window switches, are soft rubberized plastic. But if your PERCEPTION of it having cheap and hard plastic bothers you so much, why did you buy the car? Did you not sit in it first? This makes no sense to me. This is something you can see the moment from sit in a car – in no way a hidden problem, but it either didn’t bother you then, or you are just trying to find something more to complain about now that you don’t like your purchase
>>At 14,000 miles my 9-3ss has squeeks and rattles galore -- the drivers B-pillar creaks constantly. The glove box rattles intermittently. The glove box door periodically refuses to open ... and then will pop open when I hit a bump. (By comparison, at 3 years / 36,000 miles the pre-total GM ownership designed 9-5 had zero squeeks or rattles).<<
Rattles have been a problem in 03 models, but most can be fixed, Mine have settled in and are no longer an issue. You get a free loaner for service, go make them fix the rattles
>>And the so-called stereo sounds so bad I leave it turned off. A peek in the trunk reveals that the "rear speakers" on this $30k car look like nothing more than a couple of small clock radio speakers. <<
The most common complaint, and a valid one. The 300W system is better. Either system can be greatly improved for a few bucks. Shouldn’t be a deal breaker. If you turn off the radio, music or talk radio must not be a high priority
>>Typical GM bean-counter let's make it as cheap and low quality as we can get away with mentality. That is why it is a badge-engineered Malibu -- from the company that tried to pawn off a Cavalier as a Cadillac (remember the Cimarron) -- comes a turbocharged Malibu that they are trying to pawn off as a high-quality European sports sedan.<<
The only thing it has in common is the Epsilon platform. The rest was designed in Sweden, by Saab engineers. The cars are NOTHING alike.
Here is a FACT: the 9-3 is one of the 8 (out of 41) European cars (along w/ the 9-5) that are “recommended” by CR. I know, it’s not the bible, but it does dispute your contention that the 9-3 is much worse than the 9-5.
1) I leased the 9-3ss because I was very happy with the 2000 9-5 that I had leased, which was coming off lease (indeed my wife leased a 2002 9-5). Because of the GM family discount (via father-in-law) and incentives on the 9-3ss at the time (vs. none on the 9-5) it was a financial no-brainer. I was never impressed with the interior -- the top of the dash and door panels are very cheap looking hard plastic, and the center dash / console where the indicator screen is located isn't much better.
2) I complained about the creaking B-pillar air bag the last time the car was in for an oil change. The dealer "fixed" it. Their fix made it worse,it creaks more than ever. The remaining creaks / rattles have developed since then. I will complain again next time it's in, but feel like it's a losing battle, because even if they fix them this time it seems inevitable that more are going to develop. But I'm not going to take time to make another special appointment for these until the next oil change because ...
3)Yes they give you a loaner. Last time they were "out" of loaners. I had to wait around for the local Enterprise Rent A Car to come pick me up, take me to their facility, and then all they had was a Chevy 4x4 pickup truck (which at 3,500 miles had all kinds of squeeks and rattles emanating from the dashboard). That killed half the morning. When the SAAB was done I had to reverse the process -- Enterprise then back to the dealer process. I'm self employed -- and bill by the hour -- so that seriously cuts into my productive time, for which I'm not reimbursed.
4) In 2003 a new car should not have a problem with squeeks and rattles -- particularly not in that price range. It shows poor design and poor quality control -- that stuff should have been eliminated pre-production.
5) Music and talk radio are important to me. Yes, shame on me, I didn't listen to it before ordering the car -- while I didn't expect it to be as good as the Harmon Kardon in the 9-5, in today's world one should be able to assume that in a $30k car one will get at least a decent stereo. This is by far my biggest beef with the car, the other stuff I could live with.
Perhaps the stereo can be improved with aftermarket stuff. But first, why should I have to -- shouldn't that be up to the factory to retrofit to make the unit acceptable? Especially because it is leased, I am not going to spend MY money improving THEIR car.
When I first got the car I wrote to the President of SAAB USA complaining. They called me and (politely) said they had no intention of doing anything but the "software upgrade" (which I already had and which didn't make much difference). That attitude tells me that their new GM masters have told them to be satisfied putting out substandard products and to not stand behind their products. That is why my next vehicle will be Japanese -- I won't be able to take advantage of the GM family discount, but poor quality at a discount is no bargain.
As far as Consumer Reports, we'll see if the 9-3 stays on the list. I stand by my assertion that the quality of the 9-3 is far below the 9-5. My 9-5 didn't have any squeeks and rattles, didn't have to be recalled for a stalling problem, even the Linear 9-5's have a stereo is at least "listenable" etc. etc. The 9-3 looks and feels like the GM beancounters had their way with it, the 9-5 doesn't. In fact, I find it hard to believe that SAAB engineers would have put out a car like the 9-3ss, at least not without more pre-production quality control, except that they were ordered to by their GM bosses.
I don't really want to take this any further, you have what may be a lemon, and are sorry you got this car. I'll just point out a few things: It's a 25K car. After incentives. Right? A 30K car would have cured at least one of your problems (the stereo in an Arc or Vector). There are other new model year cars in this class that have reported rattles (i.e TSX, A4).
While you may think the car was rushed and not fit for market, the market did not agree. The 9-3 SS is the most successful launch in company history. There are many, many people who love their car, quirks/problems/issues included. They are out in force on enthusiast sites. I'm one of them
Well, after driving to work this morning, I decided that I definitely won't be getting the Saab. I love the look and I like the interior. The top looks great up and down and is trick to boot.
I felt bad, at first, telling the salesman this but once we started talking and I told him I own a Lexus he understood completely. He understood that Lexus people are not the kind of people that like the European Handling of most European cars and that was exactly my dislike of the car. Hey, I may be young-ish but I want luxury and am not concerned with sports car handling that much. I also like comfortable seats and the one's in the Saab - while excellent for spirited driving - are not comfortable to me. Oh well, I really like the car! I just can't see it as an every day driver.
On the other hand, and I didn't talk to him about this, I was not impressed by the amount of noise that come from the rear with the top up. I'm not sure why but it sounded like there was no roof back there at all.
With the exception of this annoying problem I love my Saab 93 and despite enjoying airline benefits choose to drive everywhere in my Arc. However I cannot understand why this vehicle drifts hard to the left. It doesn't matter if accelerating or not. I've had it in, they've checked it out, to no avail. We test drove it with a mechanic in the passenger seat and low and behold it didn't drift. Could it be my weight (ok i could stand to lose a few pounds at 210)because it didnt drift when accompanied by mechanic. Its to the point that my left arm gets tired from fighting it constantly. Anybody else experiencing this phenomenon?
I just wanted to say that this remains a very active board. I considered a 9-3 in April of last year but was concerned about 1st year reliability. I went with a Subaru Outback Limited for driving in NH and for its reliability. But, I LOVED driving the SAAB. They are right, you drive one, you want to buy one.
In late February 2003 I had a time limit -- in addition to the incentives on the 9-3ss I had been offered $500 "early out" on the lease of my 9-5 until, as I recall, March 31 2003 if I leased another SAAB (scheduled end of 9-5 lease was 06/31/2003).
I emailed SAAB because I suspected that I would prefer the Arc (not out yet) to a Linear with Launch package. SAAB replied that the Arc's wouldn't be available until June. So rather than lose the $500 I ordered took delivery of a Linear with Launch at the end of February.
Come to find out SAAB lied -- Arc's started arriving at dealers in mid-March. Had SAAB given me accurate information I would have waited to at least compare and then gotten what I wanted by 3/31.
I understand the risks of first year production. If SAAB has stood by the product and offered to retrofit the clearly "defective by design" stereos in the Linears I'd have been a satisfied camper.
That they've refused to stand by the product, and because of leasing I'm stuck with it for three years, is what has me really p***d off. I like listening to music while I drive, but the Linear is SO bad I only listen to talk radio, and that even sounds bad. And when there isn't a talk show I like I turn it off. Can't even listen to a CD, the sound quality is so bad. SAAB / GM knew that the stereo system was horrible but knowlingly put it into production that way (see, e.g., the Edmunds pre-launch review of the 9-3).
Yeah, maybe it was a successful launch and they've sold lot's of them, but they've also gotten lot's of complaints about the stereo. And have refused to rectify it.
I used to tell everyone what a great car my 9-5 was, I wanted to brand to succeed and become another Volvo, successful in the US market.
Now I feel screwed by them. I've had people ask me about the 9-3 (after all, it is a good looking car). I tell them it's crap and to stay away from it. Now as far as I'm concerned the brand should go the way of Oldsmobile -- if they put out a defective product, or a defective aspect of the product such as the stereo, and refuse to take responsibility and stand behind their product, then they deserve to go out of business.
but they've also gotten lot's of complaints about the stereo. And have refused to rectify it.<<
They did fix it for '04, using new speakers. I have driven an '04 Linear loaner, and the sound is much better.
I don’t know that I’d call the ‘03 a defective stereo, just not a very good one. Agreed, it should be better in a near lux car, but there’s no way any manufacturer would replace thousands of systems because the sound isn’t that good. They did what everyone would do, they fixed it the next model year.
And many people don’t expect very much from a stock system. That’s why there is a booming aftermarket car stereo industry
I disagree. Particularly if it is merely a speaker problem, a manufacturer committed to quality a) would never have put them into any model year production, and b) WOULD have retrofitted the vehicles with the better speakers, at least for those people who complained.
I was very happy with my 2000 9-5. As a result my wife also leased a 2002 9-5, and my sister in law a 2002 9-3. So I in effect "sold" two SAAB's because I was happy with my car and with the brand.
The absolutely terrible stereo in the 9-3ss has totally turned me off to the car -- it's terrible that in a car of that price range one can't listen to music without cringing at the tinny, hollow sound. Other than talk radio I leave it off, which can be a real drag on a long drive. I'm not a picky audiophile, but the stock system is absolutely horrible, it sounds like a very cheap boom box. Obviously I'm not alone in that assessement, as the Edmunds review attests and since you say SAAB changed the system for 2004.
But I really don't care about the 2004's. SAAB's refusal to stand behind the 2003 that I am paying good money for, each and every month, has not only turned me off to the car, but to the brand.
I'm stuck with this 9-3ss until February 2006, then I will turn it in and wave SAAB goodbye. Why should I lease or purchase another vehicle from a company that won't stand behind it's products? Three years of no music in a car of this price range is inexcusable in this day and age.
I'm so upset about this that I everyone I speak with who asks me about the car is told in no uncertain terms to stay away from the brand, that their quality and commitment to quality has been reduced to GM's notoriously low levels. I may have "sold" two SAAB's for them in the past, now I discourage anyone who asks about my car from buying the brand.
Marketing 101 -- good word of mouth is invaluable, bad word of mouth can break you and is repeated with far more frequency. Any reputable brand trying to increase its market share realizes this and endeavors to exceed expectations, not disappoint. Memo to SAAB: producing inferior products and treating customers the way GM has for 30 years is a formula for decreasing market share, not increasing it.
Comments
I suggest you re-read what you think you saw. “No later than 14,400” was never said, in the discussion we had a few weeks ago. And MOST dealers will not do the service without the light, you were lucky (like hungshy said he was). Were you there for something else? Is that how the dealer said he'd do it, while you were there?
>>To be honest, it is all a bit overwhelming. The two base scenarios (as I understand it) are: (a) 150 watt system and (b) 300 watt system. If someone has the 300 watt system, replacing the existing speakers with new ones seems to make a great difference. However, I have the 150 watt system, and from what I read, it is a great deal more work, as you have to add an amp, etc. to get good sound.
What about just adding better speakers (no-amp)? Can anyone confirm or deny this? I’d like to get some better sound out of my vehicle, but don’t want to spend more than $500 (including labor). <<
Change the front 3.5”s & rear 4” & go from there. You should see a noticeable difference. Boston Acoustics FX series and Infinity Reference are 2 brands that fit the space and have been used with success. If you want more bass, you can go 2 ways: replace the door speakers with 2 ohm replacements (very tough to find, and pricy) – or run an amp off of the door speaker signal to a subwoofer or 6x9 that you can put in the empty holes in the rear shelf. Adding the amp will probably put you over $500, while just upgrading speakers should not
>>The thing that most confuses me is the posts that quote Saab as saying, “The audio system now uses fiber optics, so standard speakers will not work.” How can this be the case? I seriously doubt the $5 speakers they use in the car are digital (fiber connected). <<
I’m not sure what posts say this, but it’s incorrect. The amps are connected to the head unit thru fiber. The speakers come out of the amps the old fashioned way – copper speaker wire.
>>On a related topic, how do you know if you have the latest version of the software? The dealer’s log from yesterday shows they updated the infotainment system, but I still can’t get AUX to show up (albeit, I don’t have an input cable attached to the head unit). I’m thinking about having someone do the AUX-IN upgrade for me so I can hook up my MP3 player. <<
Did you ask them specifically to enable AUX in? It doesn’t come with a software upgrade, they have to change settings with the TECH2 device. Some dealers gladly do it, some say it isn’t supported yet and won’t do it
Here are the instructions
Main menu:
Add/Remove
Add module
Then scroll down select "ICM"
It then reads what your system already has etc... then scroll down select "Aux Input"
Then add it, then system reboots etc, stereo goes on then off,
>>Lastly, I got a letter from OnStar saying my 1-year was up soon. I thought Saab was giving us 2-years since it took them forever to get OnStar working. Is it worth getting if I have to pay for it myself? I never use it (Safe and Sound). If it were $100 a year, maybe, but $200 is a huge waste it seems. Comments? <<
If you had the Onstar installed retroactively, you got 2 years, I believe. Only if they had to bring the car back in and install it.
I’ll probably renew for the safety features and having a backup cellphone
Onstar = Bonus to us. Handsfree phone, stored numbers, movie times, directions, etc. I doubt I will buy a new car without it.
I'm guessing the center one isn't worth touching. Yea? Nea? Based on the info I've gathered online, I'm going to look at some better 3.5" (4-ohm) L&R dash speakers and 4.0" (4-ohm) L&R rear speakers. And if possible, 6.5" (2-ohm) L&R door speakers.
Let me ask you this, would it be worth removing (or orphaning) the rear 4.0" speakers and replacing them with 6x9" speakers, or is that just a waste of money since the filter strips out any bass to those speakers?
Thanks for answering those questions. I appreciate the clear and concise reply. =8)
_______________________________
3.5" (4-ohm) L&R dash speakers = Boston FX3 = $59 (pair)
4.0" (4-ohm) L&R rear speakers = Boston RX47 = $129 (pair)
6.5" (2-ohm) L&R door speakers = Image Dynamics CX62 = $188 (pair)
4.0" (4-ohm) C dash speaker = Boston RX47 = $65 (single)
_______________________________
Total (parts) $442 (or $254 if I keep existing door [2-ohm] speakers).
And you're right, replacing the 4"s w/ 6x9 in the back probably wouldn't make a difference - they are mid and high only
I saw you on SC. I'm Jet 9-3 over there
Well, I'll let you know how it sounds. I'm not thrilled about spending $442 + labor (I'm guessing $100). Gotta figure out where to buy them at. No real deals on the web from what I see. But then again, once I'm done with this, I could stop complaining about this subject and worry about more important stuff (like what to have for dinner)
I have been getting in the low 20s mpg around town and upper 20s even low 30s on the highway. I always get worse mileage in the winter around here because of the additives for winter gas and yes I tend to drive a little aggressively so that also hurts mileage. The premium gas gives me good performance for now. Upgrades need to wait until I have really broken in the engine and convince myself I can afford to do them (new intake, exhaust, and other non-warranty destroying items).
Hope this helps
One of the last posts claimed that you cannot finance or lease a Saab if you use ED.
That is unbelievable since you can through the programs at BMW, Mercedes, Volvo etc..
Anyone have current info? Having to pay cash would be a deal breaker for most people so much that I don't think the ED program could go on if all buyers had to pay cash or use a home equity line or personal loan.
According to SaabCentral a couple of people have had the same issue and resolved it by having their rotors sanded. Has anyone here had a similar experience? Wouldn't this possibly reduce the useful life of the brake rotors? This is a concern because in my personal experience GM rotors lack durability and the warranty on these is already pretty weak as is.
The car itself is wonderful. Best in class for roominess. 5-star crash rating in European tests. Very handsome interior & exterior design. Handles like a dream. Turbo is great.
And on the Linear, you really don't need anything more than regular gas.
The car itself is wonderful. Best in class for roominess. 5-star crash rating in European tests. Very handsome interior & exterior design. Handles like a dream. Turbo is great.
And on the Linear, you really don't need anything more than regular gas.
I've really come to hate my 9-3 Linear. My lease has almost two years left and it's making me miserable.
The stereo is so bad I either listen to talk radio or leave it off (it's leased so I'm NOT going to spend my money on an aftermarket upgrade). I wrote to SAAB when I first got it to complain -- and they politely said, in effect, "too bad, go pound sound."
It keeps developing new squeeks and rattles. Which are even more annoying since the stereo is turned off.
Before this I leased a 9-5, it was a great car. Now that GM has taken complete control it is obvious they've dropped the quality down to their levels from European levels (much less Japanese levels).
I'm dreading the continuing deterioration over the next two years -- can't wait to turn it in at the end of the lease and get a quality car and again be able to listen to music when I drive.
There were two 9-5's in my family before the 9-3ss, but now I'm done with SAAB. I want a quality car, not a piece of badge engineered GM crap.
There, that feels better, for a while anyway!
dealer in shrewsbury new jersey has also been exceptional, although i've only visited once for an oil change, brake squealing problem and tech11 changes.
the front brakes squealed occasionally, the dealer acknowledged the problem and replaced front pads - have not had any problems since then. car now has 9K miles on it.
I like the interior of this car, but found the parking brake tricky and the interior not quite as high quality as my old 97 '900 SET. Found working with the clutch a bit iffy at first due to my lack of experience with a turbo clutch car. Felt more turbo lag than i expected, but plenty of high-end is there. Need to have car over 3000 RPM for the power to really come on, i think. Car has more peak power than my 328i but the turbo lag makes it feel weaker, IMHO. Didn't have any problems at all with the six speed; was a nice unit. Overall the ride was a lot more quiet and compliant than i expected for the sport suspension and the 17 inch rims. There is more interior room than the other cars in this class, i think. I loved the sport seats ( light and dark gray, gorgeous ). The trunk is very large.
Overall, i liked the 9-3 the most out of the cars i've test-driven, the issues were still turbo-lag and interior quality but every car has some issues, even a porsche 911 turbo.
I'm still reluctant to trade my old car now that the depreciation curve seems to have flattened out, but we'll see.
Passat is also nice, but turbo lag is still there. The Jetta TDI gets prius like mileage, and handles nicely - might be a tad small. They might have the TDI passat with a manual this fall - right now just automatic.
New Volvo s-40 looks promising as well.
When I've taken longer trips that were pure, onobstructed highway, I get about 33 MPG @ 75-80 MPH.
Great gas mileage, IMO
Dudleyr, if i were to get a green car now, it would be a VW diesel and i'd use biodiesel. The 9-3 is a much nicer car than those others, IMO. Overall i'm very impressed, just not enough for the discretionary expense.
dave
I complained of a slight squeal from the brakes which happened even when accelerating after just releasing the brakes. The dealer replaced the pads. Now, however, I have a horrible screeching sound when I back up (esp. when turning) which literally makes pedestrians on the sidewalk jump.
My dealer's response: "Saab knows about the problem but doen't know how to fix it. But its not a safety issue." Gee thanks, now I'm really reassured.
Also, in case anyone is interested, my oil change light came on around 8000 miles. I'm starting to think my car was a demo and then they rolled back the miles and sold it to me.
I've asked Saab to buy it back (for other problems mainly incl. stalling, gearbox malfunctions, faulty seat memory, etc..) but they refused. Lemon Law here I come!
This is the worst car experience I have ever had! The ride is rough, the car is noisy. They've put spacers in the struts, but it rides as though there are no shocks! I keep hearing it's the way it's suppose to be... It has 17" wheels and the sports suspension. You feel EVERY little bump on the road! Another issue that I've had is what I call a clunking noise from the front end and another sound like a rusty spring expanding. Maybe I'm picky, but I don't expect to hear those noises on a new car. I'm embarrassed to have co-workers ride with me!
I'm just about to the point where I really hate driving this car and I'm already seriously considering selling/trading it. My last 2 cars were Volvo's - very minor problems when compared to this car. Even a 94 Acura and 88 Honda, that my kids have, ride better than this! The downside is the money I'll lose on a trade!
I've already talked with the dealership who will work with me on this (but that remains to be seen since my 2 month car is now a "used" car), but I'm hesitant to get another Saab based upon this experience. They tell me I'll be much happier with the 95 (I have to say I had a 95 for a loaner on Thursday, and what a difference!)
I do have to say the mileage is GREAT (especially with these higher gas prices)! I'm getting 35.2 mpg on the highway.
I will read the 93 Vs 95 forum, but if others have switched, where you happy with the result???
All I can say is if you get the opportunity to go into a 9-5 take it!! Faaarrrr better quality. The 9-5 feels like a quality car; the 9-3 acts and feels like what it turns out to be, a badge-engineered Malibu. So, 9-5 high quality Euro engineering and manufacturing quality, or 9-3 low-quality GM engineering and manufacturing quality. The decision is a no-brainer.
Besides the squeeks and rattlers, the real turn-off for me has been the stereo that I leave turned off because it sounds so bad. Almsot $30k and I can't listen to the radio! And of course no stereo means that the squeeks and rattles are that much more annoying.
There have been two 9-5's in my family. Unfortunately the 9-3 demonstates that future SAAB's will just be at GM quality levels, some once the lease is done with the 9-3 I'm moving on.
Next stop, a Toyota / Lexus or Honda / Acura -- at least I'll get a quality vehicle with a decent stereo!
However, in its defense, the 9-3 is hardly a badge engineered Malibu, have you sat in a Malibu? There is nothing visible to the eye that is even remotely similar and the powertrain is well differentiated as well. Badge engineering is like the Impreza / 9-2X, and the 9-3 / Malibu relationship is nothing like that. The chassis parts they primarily share are generally inconsequential. The 9-5 is a nice looking car, but I personally find the 9-5 interior hopelessly dated and a bit cheap looking; but then they've had a chance to work out the kinks in it and you can get it at steep discounts so I can see how it would appeal to some.
Thank you in advance for your help.
The 9-3ss is "badge-engineered" GM because it reeks of GM's usual low quality design and manufacture. The interior is filled with cheap looking and feeling hard plastic. At 14,000 miles my 9-3ss has squeeks and rattles galore -- the drivers B-pillar creaks constantly. The glove box rattles intermittently. The glove box door periodically refuses to open ... and then will pop open when I hit a bump. (By comparison, at 3 years / 36,000 miles the pre-total GM ownership designed 9-5 had zero squeeks or rattles).
And the so-called stereo sounds so bad I leave it turned off. A peek in the trunk reveals that the "rear speakers" on this $30k car look like nothing more than a couple of small clock radio speakers.
Typical GM bean-counter let's make it as cheap and low quality as we can get away with mentality. That is why it is a badge-engineered Malibu -- from the company that tried to pawn off a Cavalier as a Cadillac (remember the Cimarron) -- comes a turbocharged Malibu that they are trying to pawn off as a high-quality European sports sedan.
Still, it's quality is far below the 9-5, and is at the low level typical of GM, not a European car, much less Toyota / Honda levels.
The difference is that the 9-5 was engineered before GM took total control, the 9-3 after. So should we be surprised that the 9-3ss, and future SAAB's, will be designed and built to GM standards,not European or Asian ones?
Do you think the new 9-7 will be magically transformed from the Consumer Reports "black dotted" TrailBlazer to a quality vehicle, just because it has a SAAB grille attached on the Ohio assembly line?
And what of the next 9-5? I suppose the only question is whether it will be derived from a Lumina or an Impala.
SAAB is dead in everything but name and grille.
I don't get this "clueless mentality" when people talk about European cars. For the most part (other than the Mercedes' of the pre 2k) they have never been a reliable car, collectively. When was the last time you saw any 5 year old European car that didn't leave a puddle on the ground while parked?
I have been looking at the 9-3 Convertible and have one now on a 24 hour test drive. I've also driven a new Malibu when I had my Tahoe in for service recently. They are NOTHING alike. And, for what it's worth, the Malibu (save it's cloth seats) had a much better fit and finish than the 9-3 convertible I have in my garage right now.
While I really like the 9-3 and it's styling. I'll probably be getting a Toyota Solara Convertible because I just don't think the 9-3 is going to do well.
But Euro cars have always had 1) great fit and finish; 2) industry leading safety; 3) great handling / performance.
The Japanese for at least the last three decades have had 1) great fit and finish; 2) industry leading reliability; 3) are rapidly catching up on safety engineering, if not there already.
Since the late 1960's the Americans have had 1) terrible fit and finish (don't you just love the hard grey plastic of GM vehicles!); 2) industry lagging reliability (they may be comparable or even slightly ahead of Euro / MB / VW at the moment, but does anyone believe that the Euro's won't get their act together, whereas Detroit will continue the "business as usual" they've been doing for 30+ years); 3) mediocre safety engineering; 4) mediocre performance and handling. Whether innovative engineering, quality engineering, quality manufacture, reliability or safety, one thinks of Detroit last, behind Japan, behind Europe.
NAME JUST ONE DETROIT PRODUCT SINCE 1970 THAT ONE COULD CALL AN INDUSTRY LEADING, WORLD CLASS VEHICLE. THERE ARE NONE! ZERO. ZIP. NADA.
This is all a result of the mind-set of the corporate leadership.
The Japanese executives understand the quality is what has made them go from a non-player to 30+% of the U.S. market.
The European executives are often enthusiasts themselves, and have understood that they couldn't compete on price and so emphasized safety, fit and finish and performance.
Detroit's executives are MBA finance guys who would be just as happy working for a soap company as an automobile company, and only care about maximizing the numbers and the value of their stock options, and if that means producing mediocre and crappy products to maximize short term profits so be it -- it's no accident that Detroit has been losing market share for decades.
Easy. The DC minivans for most, if not all, of the period from 84 to 98
The 9-3ss is "badge-engineered" GM because it reeks of GM's usual low quality design and manufacture. The interior is filled with cheap looking and feeling hard plastic. <<
This just is not true. All of the buttons on the center stack, as well as the window switches, are soft rubberized plastic. But if your PERCEPTION of it having cheap and hard plastic bothers you so much, why did you buy the car? Did you not sit in it first? This makes no sense to me. This is something you can see the moment from sit in a car – in no way a hidden problem, but it either didn’t bother you then, or you are just trying to find something more to complain about now that you don’t like your purchase
>>At 14,000 miles my 9-3ss has squeeks and rattles galore -- the drivers B-pillar creaks constantly. The glove box rattles intermittently. The glove box door periodically refuses to open ... and then will pop open when I hit a bump. (By comparison, at 3 years / 36,000 miles the pre-total GM ownership designed 9-5 had zero squeeks or rattles).<<
Rattles have been a problem in 03 models, but most can be fixed, Mine have settled in and are no longer an issue. You get a free loaner for service, go make them fix the rattles
>>And the so-called stereo sounds so bad I leave it turned off. A peek in the trunk reveals that the "rear speakers" on this $30k car look like nothing more than a couple of small clock radio speakers. <<
The most common complaint, and a valid one. The 300W system is better. Either system can be greatly improved for a few bucks. Shouldn’t be a deal breaker. If you turn off the radio, music or talk radio must not be a high priority
>>Typical GM bean-counter let's make it as cheap and low quality as we can get away with mentality. That is why it is a badge-engineered Malibu -- from the company that tried to pawn off a Cavalier as a Cadillac (remember the Cimarron) -- comes a turbocharged Malibu that they are trying to pawn off as a high-quality European sports sedan.<<
The only thing it has in common is the Epsilon platform. The rest was designed in Sweden, by Saab engineers. The cars are NOTHING alike.
Here is a FACT: the 9-3 is one of the 8 (out of 41) European cars (along w/ the 9-5) that are “recommended” by CR. I know, it’s not the bible, but it does dispute your contention that the 9-3 is much worse than the 9-5.
1) I leased the 9-3ss because I was very happy with the 2000 9-5 that I had leased, which was coming off lease (indeed my wife leased a 2002 9-5). Because of the GM family discount (via father-in-law) and incentives on the 9-3ss at the time (vs. none on the 9-5) it was a financial no-brainer. I was never impressed with the interior -- the top of the dash and door panels are very cheap looking hard plastic, and the center dash / console where the indicator screen is located isn't much better.
2) I complained about the creaking B-pillar air bag the last time the car was in for an oil change. The dealer "fixed" it. Their fix made it worse,it creaks more than ever. The remaining creaks / rattles have developed since then. I will complain again next time it's in, but feel like it's a losing battle, because even if they fix them this time it seems inevitable that more are going to develop. But I'm not going to take time to make another special appointment for these until the next oil change because ...
3)Yes they give you a loaner. Last time they were "out" of loaners. I had to wait around for the local Enterprise Rent A Car to come pick me up, take me to their facility, and then all they had was a Chevy 4x4 pickup truck (which at 3,500 miles had all kinds of squeeks and rattles emanating from the dashboard). That killed half the morning. When the SAAB was done I had to reverse the process -- Enterprise then back to the dealer process. I'm self employed -- and bill by the hour -- so that seriously cuts into my productive time, for which I'm not reimbursed.
4) In 2003 a new car should not have a problem with squeeks and rattles -- particularly not in that price range. It shows poor design and poor quality control -- that stuff should have been eliminated pre-production.
5) Music and talk radio are important to me. Yes, shame on me, I didn't listen to it before ordering the car -- while I didn't expect it to be as good as the Harmon Kardon in the 9-5, in today's world one should be able to assume that in a $30k car one will get at least a decent stereo. This is by far my biggest beef with the car, the other stuff I could live with.
Perhaps the stereo can be improved with aftermarket stuff. But first, why should I have to -- shouldn't that be up to the factory to retrofit to make the unit acceptable? Especially because it is leased, I am not going to spend MY money improving THEIR car.
When I first got the car I wrote to the President of SAAB USA complaining. They called me and (politely) said they had no intention of doing anything but the "software upgrade" (which I already had and which didn't make much difference). That attitude tells me that their new GM masters have told them to be satisfied putting out substandard products and to not stand behind their products. That is why my next vehicle will be Japanese -- I won't be able to take advantage of the GM family discount, but poor quality at a discount is no bargain.
As far as Consumer Reports, we'll see if the 9-3 stays on the list. I stand by my assertion that the quality of the 9-3 is far below the 9-5. My 9-5 didn't have any squeeks and rattles, didn't have to be recalled for a stalling problem, even the Linear 9-5's have a stereo is at least "listenable" etc. etc. The 9-3 looks and feels like the GM beancounters had their way with it, the 9-5 doesn't. In fact, I find it hard to believe that SAAB engineers would have put out a car like the 9-3ss, at least not without more pre-production quality control, except that they were ordered to by their GM bosses.
While you may think the car was rushed and not fit for market, the market did not agree. The 9-3 SS is the most successful launch in company history. There are many, many people who love their car, quirks/problems/issues included. They are out in force on enthusiast sites. I'm one of them
I felt bad, at first, telling the salesman this but once we started talking and I told him I own a Lexus he understood completely. He understood that Lexus people are not the kind of people that like the European Handling of most European cars and that was exactly my dislike of the car. Hey, I may be young-ish but I want luxury and am not concerned with sports car handling that much. I also like comfortable seats and the one's in the Saab - while excellent for spirited driving - are not comfortable to me. Oh well, I really like the car! I just can't see it as an every day driver.
On the other hand, and I didn't talk to him about this, I was not impressed by the amount of noise that come from the rear with the top up. I'm not sure why but it sounded like there was no roof back there at all.
Anybody else experiencing this phenomenon?
I may consider the 9-3 Wagon next time around.
I emailed SAAB because I suspected that I would prefer the Arc (not out yet) to a Linear with Launch package. SAAB replied that the Arc's wouldn't be available until June. So rather than lose the $500 I ordered took delivery of a Linear with Launch at the end of February.
Come to find out SAAB lied -- Arc's started arriving at dealers in mid-March. Had SAAB given me accurate information I would have waited to at least compare and then gotten what I wanted by 3/31.
I understand the risks of first year production. If SAAB has stood by the product and offered to retrofit the clearly "defective by design" stereos in the Linears I'd have been a satisfied camper.
That they've refused to stand by the product, and because of leasing I'm stuck with it for three years, is what has me really p***d off. I like listening to music while I drive, but the Linear is SO bad I only listen to talk radio, and that even sounds bad. And when there isn't a talk show I like I turn it off. Can't even listen to a CD, the sound quality is so bad. SAAB / GM knew that the stereo system was horrible but knowlingly put it into production that way (see, e.g., the Edmunds pre-launch review of the 9-3).
Yeah, maybe it was a successful launch and they've sold lot's of them, but they've also gotten lot's of complaints about the stereo. And have refused to rectify it.
I used to tell everyone what a great car my 9-5 was, I wanted to brand to succeed and become another Volvo, successful in the US market.
Now I feel screwed by them. I've had people ask me about the 9-3 (after all, it is a good looking car). I tell them it's crap and to stay away from it. Now as far as I'm concerned the brand should go the way of Oldsmobile -- if they put out a defective product, or a defective aspect of the product such as the stereo, and refuse to take responsibility and stand behind their product, then they deserve to go out of business.
They did fix it for '04, using new speakers. I have driven an '04 Linear loaner, and the sound is much better.
I don’t know that I’d call the ‘03 a defective stereo, just not a very good one. Agreed, it should be better in a near lux car, but there’s no way any manufacturer would replace thousands of systems because the sound isn’t that good. They did what everyone would do, they fixed it the next model year.
And many people don’t expect very much from a stock system. That’s why there is a booming aftermarket car stereo industry
I was very happy with my 2000 9-5. As a result my wife also leased a 2002 9-5, and my sister in law a 2002 9-3. So I in effect "sold" two SAAB's because I was happy with my car and with the brand.
The absolutely terrible stereo in the 9-3ss has totally turned me off to the car -- it's terrible that in a car of that price range one can't listen to music without cringing at the tinny, hollow sound. Other than talk radio I leave it off, which can be a real drag on a long drive. I'm not a picky audiophile, but the stock system is absolutely horrible, it sounds like a very cheap boom box. Obviously I'm not alone in that assessement, as the Edmunds review attests and since you say SAAB changed the system for 2004.
But I really don't care about the 2004's. SAAB's refusal to stand behind the 2003 that I am paying good money for, each and every month, has not only turned me off to the car, but to the brand.
I'm stuck with this 9-3ss until February 2006, then I will turn it in and wave SAAB goodbye. Why should I lease or purchase another vehicle from a company that won't stand behind it's products? Three years of no music in a car of this price range is inexcusable in this day and age.
I'm so upset about this that I everyone I speak with who asks me about the car is told in no uncertain terms to stay away from the brand, that their quality and commitment to quality has been reduced to GM's notoriously low levels. I may have "sold" two SAAB's for them in the past, now I discourage anyone who asks about my car from buying the brand.
Marketing 101 -- good word of mouth is invaluable, bad word of mouth can break you and is repeated with far more frequency. Any reputable brand trying to increase its market share realizes this and endeavors to exceed expectations, not disappoint. Memo to SAAB: producing inferior products and treating customers the way GM has for 30 years is a formula for decreasing market share, not increasing it.