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Comments
rear spoiler had a crack just below the rear window washer spray nozzle. I took it back and dealer replaced it. Its been ok since.
I am happy that Honda has decided to make the side impact airbags standard in 2002. Its a step Toyota has not taken yet. As a matter of fact, Toyota makes very few Sienna's with side impact airbags. So you have to buy the top of the line model to get them. Shame on Toyota.
So, while Honda was at it, i.e making its vehicle safer a.k.a. catching up, they could have offered side impact head protection for at least the driver and the front passenger. This could have been done two ways. First they could have used dual chamber side airbags as standard side airbags. These type of airbags are large and cover the torso up to about head height. Second, they could use a side impact curtain. They chose to do neither!!
So, Honda is taking a wait and see attitude. If enough people buy their B.S. about "Oh! Honda is studying the safety of side impact airbags" (coincidentaly, an exact quote from a Honda factory rep at the 2001 North American International Auto Show in Detroit) then why bother.
If any one is interested in finding out out what Drew and I are talking about please visit the IIHS site to review their ratings in addition to the NHTSA rating.
This link http://www.iihs.org/news_releases/2000/pr121400.htm will take you to an article about side impact head protection.
Cheers.
caviller- Hope I'm right in stating your profession. Forgive me, I know you can take care of yourself.
At the time not many vehicles had side air bags and the Odyssey was among the safest mini vans without them.
It could also be that they did not add them because very few car buyers wanted them at the time and very few wanted to pay extra for them.
There is another problem with some vehicles. On some when they are rear ended the front seat back collapses and that can cause the front seat passengers to fall back on the rear seat passengers and seriously injury or even kill them. I don't know where the Odyssey is on this problem, but a number of American cars have the problem.
billyg7, Honda said the exact same thing when they first released the Acura 3.2TL in '98. They downplayed the importance of side airbags and pratically said that they were unsafe. Not many people noticed that the Acura 3.2RL already had side impact airbags, so Acura basically shot itself in the foot.
The side airbags for Hondas go into the front seats themselves. Aside from the bag size and position, there's no need for an engineering study since all of the data has been available for a few years already. It is more likely, IMHO, that they delayed it to cut down on costs (only xx number of upgrades a year) as well as to seem that the next model year has made improvement.
Given the choice, I think most consumers would pay for the side airbags. You'd want to have the best chances of surviving an accident, afterall, and side impact accidents are one of the most deadly since there is so little crumple space between the door and yourself.
Drew
Host
Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards
http://www.boston.com/cars/articles/automobilia/
Price looks pretty good at 28k fully loaded. As Tom Petty says... "the waiting is the hardest part.." I have orders in at 2 dealers...dont know if it makes a difference how quick I get it, I imagine production and delivery dates about the same. But maybe I can get something for my MSRP?
Both say October for delivery... I think closer to late November since they are not starting to build them until 8/20.
It looks like with all that added the Odyssey will continue to be in short supply and will remain the top rated mini van.
(currently own '93 Civic and '99 CRV - Honda rules!)
If everthing else were the same, I would probably pass on the leather interior. However, I want heated seats and the NAV package in my 2002 Ody, so I guess I'm stuck with leather. Could be worse
- Darell
Demand determines what Honda or any automobile maker puts in their vehicles. That's why I want you and me and all of us to demand safety instead of just rushing to the dealership and puting down 30G 'cause the Odyssey is the best looking minivan(which I think it is). If vehicles are built safer we all benefit.
I also speak from experience. I have survived a side impact accident. A drunk driver ran a red light and hit my little Sentra on my side of the car. I was a college sophomore back in 1991. The accident left me bed ridden for a year. After a grueling summer of intensive rehab I was able to resume a somewhat normal life. Every morning I wake up with chronic pain thanks to that accident 10 years ago(wow, I'm getting old).
Now to put things in perpective, the drunk guy was probably going 35 MPH when he hit me. Cops figured that from how far my car spun out from where I was hit. If I had been hit at 50 MPH I don't think I would me alive today. Forgive me for being a little sceptical of people walking away from side impacts at 50 MPH. I am not calling any body a liar, just saying I need some kind of proof.
So here are my(just my own arbitrary scale) grades for the Oddysey:
Looks = A+
Reliability = A+
Driveabilty = B+ (There is annoying delay after you floor the thing before the engine decides to stop thinking for itself and down shift or acknowledge the driver's decision)
Safety = B
Value = B (MSRP+, you gotta be kinding me..)
Overall = B+/A- (not bad .. but there is room for improvement)
I would like to know how you folks rate the Odyssey and what factors are important to you.
Thanks.
Now as an aside, I do not think Odyssey looks bad, but DC's look better, especially w/ hidden sliding door tracks
My decision in favor of Odyssey was as much a decision not to buy Ford (tranny and head gasket problems) and GM (have one now, doubt I will ever buy another). Chrylser plus/minus, but when I bought my '00 Ody the new vans were not out yet and we know DC resale is pits. Sienna is too small, Mazda way to small, and so what's left?
I went through a period of doubt, such as when the service manager knew me by name on my 5th service call (before van hit 10 k miles) but Honda made good on that bad van with a new one.
Looking at pricing, demand, and the tricle of updates year to year, Honda has a very smart modus operandi, and must be credited with good work as they really stole the show on minivans. And the resale value is unbelievable. Look at what Edmund's long term Odyssey review got when they sold their van.
Overall, I have been pleased and would recommend Honda as a manufacturer, the Odyssey, and my salesman/dealer (J. Bulger at Herb Chambers, Boston -> buy from a credible dealer, if you have problems you will be glad you did).
I use to live in Los Angeles. Where I live now I see about 3 times the accidents I saw in LA and I am constantly being tailgated. So I said to myself the next car I am going to get is going to be as safe a one as possible. That was the number one reason for getting an Odyssey. I have had it a year and been hit once so far in a low speed accident.
I did make up a list of what I wanted in an auto and assigned priorities, points to each.
As for rating vehicles, since most of us don't do this for a living, and we can't drive all the cars also, we have to rely on the experts. So I use test reports a lot and my favorite is Consumer Reports
If you park the car in direct sunlight, after several years you will notice that the leather will start to crack (hey, nothing lasts forever). So basically you would have to buy leather cleaners and moisturizers to wipe down the interior of the car.
And of course this all depends on the leather, as well (i.e. cheap leather/expensive leather/'leatherette').
Personally, I can't stand leather. Hate the idea of skinning some animal just to make seat covers.
This topic may be of interest - Leather seat maintenance:
/direct/view/.ee99490
Drew
Host
Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards
What you can do to prevent these problems, if your car comes with leather seats, is get a good set of cloth seat covers for them. There are a number that have been recommended here.
It's may be better for kids in that you can clean up most spills easily, if you act quickly. The liquid will not saturate and stain the cloth.
The "hot and cold" problems are not as bad as some people have made it out to be. It really depends on the quality of the leather, and whether there are any perforations. Perforations help the leather to breathe, not to mention they help to improve circulation for you as well. The leather may be cold at first, but seat heaters deal with that within minutes. As for the heat, you may have to wriggle around a bit at first, but the A/C will also deal with it quickly. What I do for the warmest days is to simply use a reflective windshield shade, or I place a thin cushion on the seat, so that it doesn't get hot.
Drew
Host
Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards
We have twin 6 month old boys in the family now and we are going to most likely have this vehicle for 10 years or more.
Do I shell out the extra cash or not? I feel these vehicles are very dependable.
So why the Odyssey? Top crash results all around helped. Competent handling and braking on the test drive and as noted in various reviews was a plus. Standard traction control was a good feature, also. The safety of our kids is also a concern. The switchable locking retractor seatbelts can make carseat and booster use much easier, especially compared to many minivans that have lightweight locking latchplates that don't always cinch well. LATCH positions in the 2nd row captains chairs were ideal for our situation. The lap/shoulder belt and headrest in the middle rear position is also uncommon in minivans, and is essential if you want to transport 7 passengers safely. Some other considerations were good visibility and adequate power for its weight. Cost was a factor to some degree. There would have to have been significant safety advantages for us to have spent $10-$15k more than the $25k we spent on our LX.
All the other competitive minivans, SUVs and wagons (2001 Volvo XC) were lacking some of these features, though they may have had others like dynamic headrests, stability control, side torso+curtain airbags, runflat tires or reverse sensing. We picked the safety features that were most important to us, while not sacrificing cargo and passenger room.
I'll rate the Odyssey a A- for safety. That leaves plenty of room for improvement. Even so, I don't think there are even half a dozen vehicles I would consider safer. The 2001 Volvo XC might be one. The BMW X5 may be another. A Sienna with stability control and side airbags would be at least equal, as would a Windstar with side airbags, and the family security group. The Lincoln LS and Volvo S80 are up there, but like the X5 they don't have the extra seating we needed. A few others, like the Acura MDX and 2002 Explorer, might join the list if they had any current crash or rollover ratings. Given current models, and verified features on 2002 models, what would you buy for safety if you needed a 3rd row of seating and reasonable cargo space?
This page is primarily for child seat tether information, but it does have some other links that may interest you:
http://www.car-safety.org/odyssey.html
It just occurred to me- the MDX has leather, but the 3rd row is vinyl. Is there any reason to believe that the Odyssey's 3rd row would be vinyl, as well?
Also does anyone know what color the fern leather is? Thanks
I find it is worth it for peace of mind. When the dealer tells me I need an expensive repair I don't have to get a second opinion or worry about it. I just tell him to go ahead and repair it. Ask yourself if your dealer tells you the XYZ needs to be repaired and will cost you $750, what are you going to do if you don't have the warranty. Are you going to say go ahead and repair it?
Also the $950 you pay for a 7/100k/0 warranty would seldom be a total loss. You will probably need at least some repairs during that time. I never had a car that went 100K without somethings going wrong. But if this time nothing goes wrong in all that time it is OK with me.
Its like you have health insurance and nothing goes wrong with you. Do you feel cheated or would you rather get a heart attack or something.
For those who live in a hot climate may I suggest white because:
1 Your parked car stays cooler
2 Doesn't fade over the years
3 Is safe as other drivers can see you well, but not if you are going to be in snow storms a lot.
4 Don't have to get a color chart from the dealer to know how it will look.
5 Does not show the dust and dirt well. It does show mud and road tar well.
6 When your car is repaired its has best chance of still looking like new and matching the paint already on there.
7 Car thieves may have your Havasu Bluish Green Pearl on their list to steal for someone but less likely for a white one.
I have one word about parking your leather-equipped car in the sun: Tint.
I will never own another car that is not reasonably tinted. The beauty of all modern minivans and SUVs is that they're coming with good factory tint. If you can simply add a bit more to the front side windows, you're set (yes, I know it is illegal in CA, and some other states to do this). Tint will make your interior last for MANY more years, regardless of the material.
- Darell
White is very good at hiding dirt, but I have found silver to be the best. No matter how long I go between washes, my car just never looks dirty unless you get up close.
And as for repairability, I have heard that white is the hardest color to match accurately when you repaint.
One positive thing you left out, though, is that white usually increases the resale value of the vehicle. I remember seeing on the Real World Tradein Values board that a white Lexus RX300 would have a resale value that is $1000 higher than other colors. Probably not that high for all vehicles, but if nothing else it will make it easier to sell since it is such a neutral and popular color.
In general, I no longer buy the trendy new colors that come out on cars. They tend to go out of favor in a few years, and they date the vehicle. Look at all the champagne colored Suburbans on the road, and you can bet they are from about '97-'99, when that color was really popular. I was really tempted to buy the new Aegean Blue when I bought my Acura TLS, but I decided to get the silver instead because I plan to keep the car a long time, and the blue would look dated in a few years. I considered the white, but I just didn't like the white on that vehicle - more of a pearlescent white, and I prefer a brighter, crisper white. The white on the Odyssey, BTW, is very crisp - one of the best whites I have seen (but my wife wanted a silver one instead - copycat!)
Have you noticed that fire engines are no longer painted red? At least they are not in CA and AZ. They are painted a light yellow-green. My understanding is they are painted that color because they are the easiest for others to see. You might ask a fireman why they paint their vehicles that color. I think he will know the answer to that one. Or you could call your local firestation. Don't worry they get calls from people all the time, about all kinds of things. Don't call 911 though or they might get mad at you.
Perhaps some one on this board can help us out with a reference. I think with a little time I could find one. Perhaps if I went to the Encyclopedia Brittanica site and did a search.
On repairability. Well I am not sure about that, but on my last 4 white cars,I have had, even for repairs made on an old car, the color matched perfectly. I would think you would have a matching, fading and lack of gloss problems with the other colors.
I can believe that silver shows the dirt less then white. As for a higher resale value. That is interesting. I had never read anything on the best color for resale value
I will never buy white again. Any drip points - around the outside rear view mirror, roof drainage... dirty streaks. Sure, I planned to keep the car brite and shiney, but in reality w/ 3 kids, weekends are spent at the zoo, chauffering to parties, etc. And of course during the week, I have this pesky thing called work. NOT car washing. When I get down to polishing the white car, it will get really clean (no beige discoloration as suggested by earlier poster) but my Odysseys do so much better, not showing dirt (both silver and GG). The real dirt problem on Odyssey is accumulation of brake dust on the front wheels.
We have friends w/ Sienna, we borrowed their "exersaucer" and the thing barely fit in the back of their van and all they had in there was a small, folded umbrella stroller. And to fit in in, we had to use the saucer's shortest height setting. Odyssey could have swallowed 3 or 4 of them, maximally expanded, easy. It depends upon your needs, but the space in the back of Odyssey is awesome. Other problem with big SUVs is that w/ third seats up, which incidentally have really bad leg room, there is hardly any space left in the back.
Back to Honda, I am still amazed by Odyssey resale value - as long as there is a wait list there will be excellent resale. Those of us who now own, even as the new factory goes on-line to help meet demand, the market for used ones remains incredible strong - there were not enough new and there will never be enough used.
I did about 3 months analysis before I came up with the top car as a 2000 Odyssey. Looking at the Consumer Reports safety ratings for cars, the Odyssey is among the top ones. See Consumers Reports April 2001 pages 16 through 19.
Now you add for 2002, improved: safety ,power,seating comfort, ride, etc. I don't think you are going to be able to find a better all around vehicle. The only one I can think of is the biggest Mercedes for safety, handling, comfort and ride. But that car costs about $100,000. If you have that kind of money you could have a number of cars. The maintenance costs on that car are also very high. Figure at least 3 times the Odyssey. I see even the Cadillac DeVille is ranked as less safe then the 2001 Odyssey and the Mercedes-Benz ML430 SUV has a safety rating just under the Odyssey also.
LX Standard Features
- 3.5 liter, 240-hp, 24-valve VTEC V-6 engine
- 5-speed automatic transmission
- Independent front and rear suspension
- 4-wheel anti-lock brakes (ABS) with Electronic Brake Distribution system (EBD)
- Traction Control System (TCS)
- Ventilated 4-Wheel Disc Brakes
- Power rack-and-pinion steering
- Dual front & side airbags
- 3-point seat belts at all seating positions
- LATCH (Lower Anchors and Tethers for Children) (2nd-row)
- 3rd-row child-seat tether anchor
- Head restraints at all seating positions
- Front-and 2nd-row passenger-assist grips
- Dual sliding doors
- Convertible/removable 2nd-row bucket seats
- Retractable fold-down 3rd-row Magic Seat
- Front-and rear air conditioning with individual, adjustable rear-cabin vents- Micron air-filtration system
- Immobilizer Theft-Deterrent System
- Retractable center tray table
- Power windows and mirrors
- Power door and tailgate locks
- Power rear quarter-windows
- Electronic cruise control
- 2nd Row Grab Rails with Clothing Hangers
- 2nd Row Seat Cup Holders
- 8 Cargo Area Bag Hooks
- Driver's seat with manual height adjustment
- Individual outboard map lights
- 2-speed/variable intermittent windshield wipers
- Intermittent rear window wiper/washer
- Rear privacy glass
- Carpeted floor mats
Color and Trim
Granite Green with Fern
Evergreen Pearl with Ivory
Mesa Beige Metallic with Ivory
Starlight Silver with Quartz
Taffeta White with Fern
Redrock Pearl with Quartz
Havasu Blue Metallic with Fern
EX Standard Features (adds to LX model)
- Dual power sliding doors
- Automatic climate control
- Driver's seat with 8-way power adjustment
- Driver's Lumbar Support
- Front under-seat storage tray (without Navigation System)
- HomeLink remote system
- Steering wheel-mounted audio controls
- Auto-off headlight function
- Security system with remote entry
- 16" alloy wheels
- Roof rails
- Body-colored side moldings, mirrors and door handles
Color and Trim
Granite Green Metallic with Fern
Evergreen Pearl with Ivory
Mesa Beige Metallic with Ivory
Starlight Silver Metallic with Quartz
Taffeta White with Fern
Redrock Pearl with Quartz
Havasu Blue Metallic with Fern
EXL Standard Features (adds to EX model)
-Leather Seats and Door Trim
-Front Heated Seats Color and Trim
Granite Green Metallic with Fern Leather
Evergreen Pearl with Ivory Leather
Mesa Beige Metallic with Ivory Leather
Starlight Silver Metallic with Quartz Leather
Taffeta White with Fern Leather
Redrock Pearl with Quartz Leather
Havasu Blue Metallic with Fern Leather
EXL-RES Standard Features (adds to EXL model)
- DVD Rear Entertainment System with 7" Widescreen LCD Display.
- Wireless Remote Control
- Audio/Video Input Jacks
- 2 Infrared Wireless Headphones Color and Trim
Granite Green Metallic with Fern Leather
Evergreen Pearl with Ivory Leather
Mesa Beige Metallic with Ivory Leather
Starlight Silver Metallic with Quartz Leather
Taffeta White with Fern Leather
Redrock Pearl with Quartz Leather
Havasu Blue Metallic with Fern Leather
EXL Navigation Standard Features (adds to EXL model)
Does not include Entertainment System
- On board Navigation System Color and Trim
Granite Green Metallic with Fern Leather
Evergreen Pearl with Ivory Leather
Mesa Beige Metallic with Ivory Leather
Starlight Silver Metallic with Quartz Leather
Taffeta White with Fern Leather
Redrock Pearl with Quartz Leather
Havasu Blue Metallic with Fern Leather
Laz
http://www.collegehillshonda.com/2002.htm
2002 pricing will be announced 8/24
Let's look at it from another point:
Kia offers a 10 yr/100K powertrain warranty - are they confident or afraid?
VW is dropping it's 10 yr/100K powertrain warranty and upping the B to B to 3/36 from 2/24. Have they lost confidence in the powertrain's abilty but managed to improve the electrical?
Bentley's warranty is 3 yr/unlimited miles - don't you think for $100K they could do a little better?
In essence, a warranty is important. But the majority of manufacturers seem to offer the 3/36 b to b. If you are that concerned about the warranty, go for the Toyota.
- Darell