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There's no problem with ordering, other than having to wait upwards of 8 weeks. In the meantime, my trade-in depreciates just a little bit more, and I believe cost increases (albeit small) on new orders are in effect. On the upside, the Stability Roll Control (RSC) will be assured, so it's not all bad.
Also, has anyone try to play DVD+RW disk on the DVD entertainment system? I record TV shows in MPEG format and burn them on the DVD+RW disks for my son. Would like to know if it can be played back on the Lincoln system.
Thanks.
This is a safety feature. I guess Lincoln doesn't want people typing in letters and numbers while driving with their eyes are off the road. HOWEVER...you can use previous destinations while the truck is moving. The guidinace will start "on-the-fly" from wherever you happen to be drivng at that moment.
I'd hate to stop just to select a gas station or a restaurant.
Allowing it if there's a passenger present? That doesn't mean it's the passenger using it. The driver could still be using it. And the lawyers would be happy - happy to sue the first time an accident happened. Ain't happening. Thank the lawyers and sue happy drivers.
lolaj: WHatever you choose, Aviator or Navigator, you'll love it. As u know, we found the Aviator just a bit too small for our family of 5 so we got a 2004 Navigator and it is one H_LL of a nice car/vehicle/SUV. I would not call it, or the Aviator, a truck because it just isn't much like a truck anymore. Show me a truck with independent rear suspension and rack and pinion steering. But I digress. The Nav will take up more space in the garage for sure. Not a problem for me cause I have an oversized garage. I LOVE that the Nav has real 4WD. When I get to Phoenix again, we can go 4Wheelin in the Superstitions and if the Aviator bogs down, u can hop in with me:>) I think the only place I won't take the Nav that I did take my Cherokee is Elephant Hill in Canyonlands. XPlan plus rebates makes a good deal a lock these days. (Though they did charge a $45 doc fee! Allen - should I demand a refund? :>)
I found the Nav I bought at a dealer about 100 or so miles N of me using the search function on the Lincoln website. You can see the sticker and the x-plan price right there. Holding out for Vivid Red is what I would do too. It's an awesome color. Not offered on Nav this year. I got Merlot, which is a bluer/purpler red than my Aut Red LS. I like it a lot. Bought it sight unseen.
I don't know about the Aviators, but it seems ALL the '04 Navigators have RSC if they have advancetrak. Mine does. We also got the (DVD) Navigation system and both my wife and I are extremely pleased that we did. It's fantastic. Though I hate that I can't er, my passenger can't, do many of the functions while travelling. It's pure NANNY-STATE stuff.
OK, back to regular programming.
Wait, I also wanted to say:
The "next-generation Aviator" stuff puzzles me. OK, perhaps a 'cross-over' vehicle would be nice to compete wth the SRX and Murano and RX330 etc. But why does it have to replace the Aviator, which is pretty much the best vehicle in it's class? And why will it be built off a MAZDA chassis FGSakes? Why not the DEW98 platform so it'll actually be a Lincoln rather than a gussied-up Mazda? And why are they making it look like an AMC Spirit? The grille is Horrible. Stick with the waterfall grille FGSakes, Lincoln. I think Lincoln would be much better off in 2006 with a lineup of: Navigator, Aviator (the present one) Spirit (the next one) and NO TRUCK. I just don't see ANY reason for a Lincoln truck. What's next, a Lincoln ExpensiveLine VAN FGSakes? Lincoln needs CARS. Actual sedans and maybe even a coupe and convertible. With *waterfall* grilles. If they change to the eggcrate grille, well isn't that Ford's signature grille? So they should change the name of the car to that of another president and since Ford is taken, well meet the new Gerald Aviator! :>)
heyjewel: suffice it to say we are on the same page on all the topics you discussed!! Just wanted to add that I REALLY hope Lincoln comes out with a Lexus LS 430 fighter with a classy new exterior/interior design.. the Towncar just doesn't do it to me at all (in or out!!) and I'd like a good excuse to get out of my SUV buying cycle.. I've been driving an SUV for the past 7 years (97 explorer,00 gator,03 gator).
I may actually pull the trigger on a deal this Friday, though it will probably be anti-climactic as it looks like an order is inevitable. I'll lock in current incentive based pricing and assure myself of exactly the configuration my wife and I want. Virtually the full boat on all options except for the entertainment system. I felt that the fold down screen could compromise visibility too much. Instead, I might opt for an aftermarket unit my dealer has shown me that puts individual screens on the backs of the head rests. The only problem with this arrangement is that with the 2nd row bench seat arrangement we want, there isn't a good place for the main unit . . . decisions, decisions.
Another option that doesn't cost me anything more is that I also have a battery powered portable DVD player with a 5-inch screen (?) that we've used for cross-continental airplane trips. It can be plugged it into a DC power point, but it can also run off a battery and has lasted for up to 4 hours on a charge . . . good for 2 whole movies (purchased to entertain a then 3 year old daughter).
I also think George is right on target with what LINCOLN ought to do. The waterfall grille is WAAAAAAY better than the egg-crate stuff. I get the feeling that the new top dog at Lincoln (Hazel?) is too entrenched with the "old" Lincoln and just isn't in step with the "new" direction that the LS and Aviator embarked upon. It seems to me the LS and Aviator are seen by the old Lincoln guard as too radical for the Lincoln image.
Ford will no longer use the DEW98 platform, it's a bit too expensive for the vehicles they wish to build on it. The Mazda6 platform is more economical, and a bit more flexible. Although, something COULD be made from the Mustang D2C Platform, which is a cousin of the Dew98.
They will also be building a passenger car, off the Mazda6 as well, as a Lincoln offering. This is in their product plans as well, and well be the entry vehicle.
The Aviator pictures we have seen is just in concept form. Much of it will be changed come production time. Just look at the rear windows, and the bumper's. You KNOW those won't make it. It's there just to give us an idea of where it's going. That's all....
Well, I'm sure that Ford/Lincoln knows way more than I do about which platform to use for what.
That said, I won't buy a Mazda/Lincoln. Period. Why would I when I can have a Mazda/Ford, Mazda/Mercury or even a Mazda/Mazda? Isn't Lincoln supposed to be a PREMIUM brand? Didn't Ford spend a TON of money to develop the DEW98 platform in order to create a world-class luxury platform for Jag/Lincoln in order to compete with Mercedes? BMW? Audi? Lexus? Infiniti? CADILLAC? etc etc? Does it make ANY sense to throw away amortization of these DEW98 development costs on more platforms? It sounds to me like Lincoln is going to throw away all the progress they've made towards competing with these up-scale brands. What a waste. Finally, a sporting Lincoln in the form of the LS and what's it's future? A Mazda with a telescoping steering wheel? Or perhaps no future at all? No matter, the outcome is the same either way to me. Hello Caddy or Audi. Goodbye Mazda.
If you have the wheel turned all the way to one side or the other it can make noises and vibrate. You don't want to do that for more than a couple of seconds - it puts maximum strain on the power steering pump and hoses.
It's not a safety issue. The old joke about the doctor and "it hurts when I do that - then don't do that" is applicable here.
If it's doing it when it's not turned fully to one side or the other then something's wrong.
The DEW98 was originally developed in conjunction with Jaguar, and now that platform will be exclusive for Jaguar. Jaguar owner's could say the same thing about current LS owner's.... "Why would I want to have a Lincoln/Jaguar, I want my own platform"... Etc.
While the platform is retained, it can be tailored heavily for each cars specific need, which is the case with the new 500/Montego. Just as you drive a Mazda3/VolvoS40/Focus...While they work off the same platform, each delivers a very different feel and someone would be hard pressed to notice any similarities.
This doesn't mean the Mazda6 derived platform will retain the Mazda6 lengths/widths etc. It'll be very different. Aside from the Futura, it'll spawn a Lincoln sedan and crossover, the next generation of Ford minivans, midsize SUV's, and at that point you would be hard pressed to tell it's origins.
Ford isn't the only manufacturer to use this idealism. Toyota/Lexus does a good job of using the same basic Camry platform and spawn everything from the Highlander/RX330/ES330/Sienna/Avalon, just as Honda uses it's Accord platform for a range of other vehicles as well.
By using common platform architecture, you gain quick development times which results in faster vehicle introductions. Cost savings, greater reliability, faster ramp up/tooling to production, improved initial quality.
Granted, I love the Dew98 platform and am fully aware of it's potential and dynamics, Ford also had the MN113 platform (last generation Tbird/Cougar/Mark8) and that along with the DEW98 are one of the best platforms Ford has designed. Unfortunately there's other issues involved, which might put an end to Ford's usage of it. Although if you do wish to continue buying DEW98, you can try Jaguar...they will be keeping it for quite awhile.
Regarding Audi it shares platforms with VW Golf/Passat, Skoda and SEAT.
Lincoln has as much invested in the DEW98 platform as Jaguar (wasn't it already in development when Nasser acquired Jag?), so why is Lincoln flushing it? It's the ONLY car they have that has world-class driving dynamics. Myabe Mazda can design a world-class car, but I've owned both an '84 RX-7 and a '00 MPV, and neither can hold a candle to what the LS is.
I guess what I'm saying is, if Lincoln scraps the DEW98 LS, I'm scrapping Lincoln . . . until then, I'll be replacing that MPV with an '04 Aviator.
Not saying I would or wouldn't buy - just saying.
If you can tell Bill for us.....
Jag was bought I believe in 1989-90, DEW98 was conceived under the Jac Nasser reign, under a totally different game plan to what is occuring now. At that time, Lincoln's plan was to do, as Cadillac is doing with their vehicles currently. Gm copied that idea when it noticed Ford buying prestigious brands and they were left with nothing but..Caddilac.
Issues arose as we all know. Game plan has changed. Ford has realized it doesn't need to compete with Cadillac, or $60K+ vehicles. It already has Jaguar, Aston Martin, Land Rover in the upper echelon.
"But Jaguar is not profitable."
It took Ford about 10 years to turn around, improve reliability of Jaguar, invest in manufacturing and engineering, and improve the antiquated factories. They posted a profit at the 10 year mark, AT that time....(DEW98) was being hatched, and since then they haven't had much profit.
Let's not forget, Jaguar was just a 2 car offering , XJ and XK. Ford had to improve ALL the above mentioned, AND release new vehicles to raise it's sales. Jaguar hasn't posted profits because it's invested money into the development of S-type, X-type and Estate, new XJ, and future XK. I doubt they'll post a profit for another year or 2, BUT because it's under PAG, it's profits are posted together with Volvo, LR, AM, etc.
Although I believe PAG will post a profit this year, thanks to Volvo who's had a good year, and will have an even better one next year. Volvo was IN the black when Ford bought them. And not much reinvestment has had to be made to improve sales.
" If you don't share Jaguar platform with other Ford brands whats the point of what you said about platform sharing anyway."
When you share platform, share upwards. That was Jac Nasser's reign..issue... They were getting expensive platforms (like DEW98) and incorporating them into lower tier vehicles (common sense dictates, not profittable).
Same with the 500 platform. That's a Volvo P2 platform under there which is quite sophisticated and expensive as well. HE wanted the (what we now know as the 500) to be the Taurus replacement... mind you, the Taurus begins at $16K. You can understand that's next to impossible. HENCE, the current 500/Freestyle/Montego...a Fullsize sedan/Crossover which will be priced rather well considering the great platform it's based under. (this will be to Ford, what the S-type was to the LS- a great bang for the buck).
Now under the new reign of Bill Ford, common sense has kicked in a bit. Use a platform, but bring it up to a higher tier brand. We have the Focus sedan which is a great platform and has received accolades for it's performance, and turn it into a Mazda3, and a Volvo S40. What seperates them? Some weight savings, a few structural reinforcement elements, and more use of aluminum on the S40.
That brings us to the Mazda6, start with a good foundation, improve upon it and bring it upwards for use on other vehicles. MORE vehicles it's used on, the more they can concentrate on investing money into other aspects of the vehicles...(like the higher quality interiors we are beginning to see).
So Dew98 will be used by Jaguar, and if they NEED to donate it, it'll probably be for a higher up vehicles. HENCE, now the new XJ is built on it (aluminum), and if Aston Martin needs it, it would be feasable.
Now the new Mustang is a cousin of the DEW98, and that itself is a good bang for the buck. It won't have much of the weight saving items as aluminum, but it's actually quite good for the price.
I too will lament the loss of the Lincolnied DEW98 platform...this and the Mark8 MN113 platform were/are 2 of Ford's most sophisticated platforms. Hmmm maybe that's the issue, everytime I buy a specific platform, Ford kills it... I might be the jinx....Ahh...
"this car does resemble the AMC Spirit"
I'll go research shortly what that vehicle was, as well as the 61 Conti looked like. I wasn't aware of specific vehicles till 1985-ish.
In case you didn't read it on another forum. This is how I see concepts... Look from far, 3/4th view.. Blur your eyes a bit. That Conti looking grill as you put it, might just be them testing the waters. The bumpers you can tell WILL NOT make it...They aren't usable. Neither is the rear glass. The sides might be (and usually is) item that might make it fully to production (not much you can do to hide the width of a car).
If you look at the Mark LT (I dislike the name), you will see the grill that Lincoln will be using. And that vehicle debuts for 2006. What Lincoln could do, is use that grill on it's Nav/M-LT, while putting that Conti-looking grill on it's sedan and crossover.
Personally, I like the waterfall Mark LT grill, but a point to remember... Mercury's grills are also waterfall type. And maybe they wish to seperate their look since they share the same showroom. Also notice how the AVI has the pendant Lincoln (gun-shoot) rising from the hood, while the Mark LT has it on the grill. Certainly that's something that Lincoln is testing as well.
I think it's safe to say though, the interior won't make it. Maybe some aspects of it (like square gauges) or location of them....BUT ewwwwwwwww...Not my cup of tea.
I'm off to the dealership to see about an '04 Aviator!
You also said that if there was no Nasser, Lincoln sucked big way without LS and there were no 500/Montego. And probably no Cougar or Thunderbird. Ford would have the same cheapo unexciting crap like Taurus uncapable to compete with imports. So Nasser wasn't so bad after all, he just wanted Ford/Mecury/Lincoln to be competetive with import and bring at least some excitement.
As to how he negatively affected the company, would take hours to type. But pertainign to this discussion... lack of new products, and lack of focusing and improving exsisting one's. (One reason why the Taurus has gone down hill)
Billy Boy has entered, cleaned house/restructured, reduce costs, improve quality, and introduce new products. We have the new F-150 setting the benchmark on many aspects, the redone Windstar/Freestar and new Monterey, GT, Mustang, 500, Freestyle, Montego, Mariner, Escape Hybrid, Aviator. While in the pipework.... Mark LT, Next Aviator, Futura, Lincolnized Futura, next generation Conti-possibility, and a few other vehicles not yet announced.
Elena Ford is/was the major cheerleader for getting Mercury new products, even if it' sjust rebadged Ford's....again, some of Mercury's best sales years, were as that of re-badged Ford's.
Lincoln (under Nasser's reign) had another vision. One which might have followed Cadillac upwards (and I'm in aggreeance with that). But because of re-structuring, and cocentrating on core product, the vision had to be modified.
Bill wants to make Lincoln what it's always been, American luxury. It doesn't need to compete with the european brands since they have Volvo, Land Rover, Aston Martin, and Jaguar. What is american luxury ? Good luxury cars for the money, that many american's can still afford.
Side note: Ford is the sales leader of the luxury market at 21% (just read it a few days ago on Detroit news I believe) and that continues to rise. This because Ford is predicting a majority of their profit will be made from their luxury brands.
Hence, the introduction of Volvo's XC90, S60, S40, V50 (coupe to come), Mazda6, 3, Aston Martins new DB9, Land Rover's new Discovery, Range Rover Sport, possible Defender reintroduction, Jag's X-type and Estate, new XJ, coming XK8, and possible 2seater roadster idea they have been playing with.
So far Lincoln has done very well with the Navi, and Avi...While the Town Car does well for livery fleets, and as the most stabalized sales overall. Unfortunately, the LS has eratic sales since (in my opinion) it hasn't received the proper marketing/advertising. This new Mark LT (Town Truck) will allow for very good profits, with minimal investments. The next Aviator still has awhile to debut, same with the Lincolnied Futura but yet, NEW produts.
This isn't to say that Lincoln might not refocus on another game plan. Possibly (and I'm hoping), that if sales of the new products do quite well, and allow the roadability to maximize their platforms potential, then Lincoln might do away with the perception of blue-haired driver's, and move onto building more performance oriented luxury sedans at decent prices, without cross-shopping Jag's products.
This is also why Lincoln will stop using Jag's 3.9L derived DOHC V8...although I prefer it's possible displacement/replacement.
The only thing Ford has in the hopper that looks/sounds remotely interesting is the Mustang . . . DEW derived. Everythng else? I'll be shopping elsewhere.
That was the point, they didn't have much issues. That's what led Ford to post losses the past couple of years. Hardly any products in the pipeline.
"Since when has Volvo been considered luxury?"
Volvo is considered (by Ford) and many other resources, as a luxury nameplate.
The DEW derived platform is excellent for the money actually. Don't be surprised if you see other vehicles step from that platform (hint).
If the above is correct, should we purchase?
If we do purchase, should we expect better pricing (currently quoting 38,400 for luxury model including taxes, with DVD ent. package before trade. We have not "negotiated" yet)?
Do you know how this would affect resale value? We typically keep our vehicles for approx. 7 years.
I do love this vehicle, have test drove. Also drove Explorer (BIG difference in feel/aesthetics ). My husband is concerned about the talk of the truck being discontinued and what that could mean in the future.
Sorry if this has been asked before.
Thanks.
Unfortunately, I'm growing increasingly more concerned that, after 2006, Lincoln will no longer have a product on their showroom that I will be interested in. Over the past 4 years, Lincoln has shown me much good will, and they have definitely earned themselves a shot at my future business, but only if their products fit my needs. I haven't heard of anything yet beyond 2006 that does. Too bad.
As far as Volvo goes, I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree. I don't think I'll ever come to recognize Volvo as a luxury brand. To me, they've always been a niche player in the auto industry that has banked heavily on their crashworthiness and leadership safety measures. When I think of safety, I think Volvo. When I think luxury, I think of many other brands, but definitely NOT Volvo.
I haven't noticed GM slotting Saab as a luxury brand . . . particularly in direct comparisons to their existing Buick or Cadillac brands. Volvo is certainly not any higher in cache than Saab.
"American luxury" is now Lexus, BMW and Mercedes. It was redefined, for many years now. Good morning Ford, wake up !
Oh not at all, I didn't see it as a personal attack, just exchanging point of views, so it's alright.
"I was told by a dealer the Aviator was being discontinued in 2005 and being replaced by a crossover model."
Considering Ford has not released any dates for such a demise, then there's really no way your saleperson could have figured that out. And from the look of the concept, I can tell you it's NOT coming in 2005....MAYBE in 2006 as a 2007 model.
I'm considering a purchase of an Aviator. I should
have never taken my wife to the Lincoln dealer!
I'd like to buy a used 03 but I want AWD,
AdvanceTrac and Navigation. Is AdvanceTrac
available on 03s? How would I know if it has
AdvanceTrac? Is there a light or button or
something? Is the 03 AdvanceTrac the same as the
04 AdvanceTrac? There is something in the 04 dealer brochure that says late availability.
Also, getting these options seems to be difficult.
Is there anyway to add a navigation system and
make it look good? There doesn't seem to be any
place to put like a Magellan RoadMate 700 or some
such. I don't want it sitting on top of the dash.
If anyone can help clear up my confusion it would
be much appreciated.
Ed Mazurek
and yes, AVI DRIVER, You are absolutely right! Anybody who has driven the two, can't honestly say that the Aviator is just a dressed up Explorer.
And in my opinion -- having owned GM, Lexus and MB Suv's, with the incentives, the Aviator is the best value in mid-size luxury class.
I was driving yesterday when the Check AdvanceTrac warnign message illuminated on my dash. I did the system check through the onboard computer thing, and it also gave the same message.
Has anyone seen this happen to their Aviator? I haven't checked again...I'm hoping switching off the car and restarting it would have fixed any gremlins.
2003 with 5900 miles. Thanks.