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As for the center gauges, it is a big deal to a lot of people. I read the GM article and it stated the gauges are in the same line of sight as your side view mirrors. Well, for someone like me, who almost never uses those mirrors, it would not be in my normal line of sight. It's not natural to look to your side constantly. I shouldn't have to get "used" to something. It should feel right from the beginning (the interior is what you have to look at all the time). Yes, the Mini uses a similar arrangement, but the dash layout is more normal looking (no big pregnant pod sticking on top of the middle of the dash angled toward the driver) and the tachometer is still directly in front of the driver, where it should be. I suppose those who drive automatics wouldn't have a need to look at the tachometer and therefore might not be bothered as much by its location. However, for the city driver with a stick who likes to see what his engine is doing, its distracting to look to the side (think of how distracting it is to look at the radio and HVAC controls) and directs your attention just as much from the road as looking down.
Lastly, I may like something to look nice but road manners are a top priority. The delta platform may be rigid and handle good in other applications but I sort of doubt the Ion will be a hot performer. It uses a semi independent rear suspension that is not capable of providing as smooth of a ride nor as good handling as an independent setup. The electric steering in the Vue has not been praised for its linear response and natural feel either. There are other cars that don't require you to have to deal with an unusual and ugly dash to get good performance. It's really too bad Saturn made so many mistakes. They need a car that appeals to just about anyone, not one that turns people away.
Saturn sales have been in free fall since '96 and they need a new car big time! GM's deep pockets are what they have been "surviving" on.
Bringing out another S series reskin would have been sudden death. Matching and exceeding the Asians is what it's all about now, not sticking to "what made the company" while sales dive.
the only thing this car has going for it is the ecotec engine.
that, and plastic doors, i mean, gotta have something that won't dent when people pelt it spontaneously with rocks and garbage.
WHAT IS THE DEAL with the interior? Echo is something to copy? That steering wheel is gonna have a litter! It looks like the StaPUF man. Its poofier than hot Krispy Kremes on a Sat. morning!
Lunchbox and kitchen garbage can grade plastics as usual.
Moving to the exterior we see that a Neon has mated with the [non-permissible content removed] end of the Altima. A hint of beetle in the arc of the roof. That rear door must have been cheap to fabricate.....check out that completely straight cut line! That's brutal! I can't even quantify the issues with the C-pillar.
Meanwhile, more and more buyers queue up at VW dealers swapping up the classy looking Jetta.
"Quad" coupe is not so bad looking. What's the deal....GM dropped the "Quad4" so now they gotta have the "QUADcoupe?"
Why can't GM design a decent looking small car? Why do they always have this freak show quality to them?
To me the Protege and Focus (read...Ford products) still have the most attractive compact products.
tomcat : You hit it on the head. Saturn has to match size and comfort of the Civic, Focus and Corolla if it wants to compete as there will be a LOT of cross shopping.
tlindeman : Problem with the Echo isn't only the interior gauges. The car is just ugly all over. I think you will see more center gauges in other cars soon. I have heard many younger people comment on how cool they are and I personally don't care, you get used to it.
Other than that looks competitive for those who like the exterior.
The ION will not be sold in Europe or Japan where the roads are narrow and there is little parking space. Except for fuel economy, there really is no advantage to having 176 inches or so when its buyers will mostly all have garages and drive on wide roads and expressways. And since the ION will deliver fuel economy as it is, the additional length harms nothing.
On the other hand, the Delta platform places the wheels farther away from the occupants. This means the ION wil handle better than the S series. It also means the ION can have a stiffer suspension without any additional discomfort to the occupants as bumps and bounces are farther away.
Even where I live - crowded Chicago - I cannot see any real advantage to buying a very small car unless you are hooked on the looks.
Looking at more photos and the ION really is good looking. Still don't care for the steering wheel though. Hope they change it, but they probably won't.
I'll wait for the Chevy Delta Cavalier replacement if not the wife will decide between the Vibe and the upcoming 2004 Chevy Vectra.
Also, Saturn doesn't validate GM Credit card points, another big dissapointment in my honest opinion.
Lutz, How did you get this car come out like this?
And your Impala is better how?
dindak: I don't know what planet you live on, but I'm 22 and no one my age I have talked to about cars has found the Echo's gauge cluster "cool". Every one of them hates the gauge location and think its the worst design they have ever seen, along with the Aztec's exterior. These cars were styling exercises meant to attract my age bracket and they have all bombed. Why Saturn would choose to copy the Echo is beyond me. It's definitely not because my age group told them it was cool.
Seriously, my problem with many of the current skid control systems being offered is that they don't give you the full solution, a car that not only stops skids but knows how to follow the road. To someone who is used to compensating for skids on their own, this system will really freak them out and like people who lift the brake pedal when ABS starts pulsing it, you'll probably confuse the vehicle systems if you try to fight the skid at the same time that it is doing its thing. If I'm going to have a computer driver, I want the full deal!
Why just centre mounted instruments? Why not go for a full HUD? Use cameras to display images of the 'mirrors' on the windshield too, whydontcha?
185 inches is not a land yacht. The trunk in the Ion will be massive compared to the S and larger than the current Civic and Corolla. You ignore totally what I said about the ride and handling of the Delta platform.
Wrong about the mileage as well. The L weighs in at just under 3,000 pounds. The ION will be lighter and will also come with either the manual, CVT, or a 5 speed automatic. You will definitely see mileage in the high 30s, where the S is now.
1. That steering wheel. What were they thinking?
2. That crease across the doors. Great styling, huh?
3. Center mounted intruments. Give me a break.
The epitome of design...yeah right!
Look man, do this: buy your 2003 ION with its center mounted gauges, Sta-Puft marshmellow man steering wheel and after thought door crease.
Then look at the 2005 ION. The gauges will be in front of the dirver. The steering wheel will look normal and the door crease will be gone.
Your 2003 ION will really stand out.
Coupe: I'm lovin' it. Different, funky. Modern take on the Tucker.
Both: I'm OK with the interior. I like 'em when they're a little bit unusual.
The guages/dash in the S series aren't great that's for sure. At least the guages and stereo are high on the dash so you can see them in the ION.
A big trunk like our L's is a plus for a compact sedan.
A usable back seat for someone over 7 years old is a plus too.
The ION is long overdue and it will have polymer side panels!
The CVT trans and ecotec engine should make for a smooth powertrain. I canit wait to drive it.
Truth be told, I'm just happy GM updated one of its car lines.
The Ion I don't hate. I just think GM sqaundered a huge opportunity. The first new GM small car in 'ions'...oops...eons, and the thing is, its got a really good ecotec motor...new chassis...and BAM, LET'S HIT EM WITH THE GIMMICKY FREAKY STYLING AND CHEAP PLASTIC AGAIN!
So its troubling that despite the mechanical goodness this car may have and the now usable interior space....that they would lay such an egg eith the styling. i.e. make it seem so much along the lines of the other GM cars and so unappealing to import intenders who are flocking to Jettas, Proteges, Civics and yes Hyundais in droves.
Wasn't Saturn supposed to attract import buyers? Certainly not repel them.
Saturn cannot lure import intenders and even domestic fans for that matter with the absurd interior and the disjointed exterior.
So its just troubling. Because the promise of the mechanicals is there. I myself can vouch for the goodness of the ecotec motor. I test drove the Lseries about 5 times and was commited to buying an L100 Special edition primarily because it seemed such a nice motor for a four, and especially in comparison to the pushrod motors in other GM products.
I bought a Diamante, but only because I found a great deal.
So the promise of this nice powertrain, in a larger package than the S, with up to date styling (supposedly)......the L series will get 35 mpg with the ecotec I can only imagine what the lighter Ion will get for gas mileage...and good pickup too.
And then to be dropped the big styling bomb...someones here may say 'they like it' and that's fine. But do you really? Would you just be a 'follower' and buy the Ion, because its a new Saturn product, even if it you know the styling is only merely acceptable at best. Especially when the classy Jetta and roomy and nice to be in Corolla and Civics can be had for the same money? I mean, the competition is too fierce to think people will choose this car when factoring in style. This Ion is immediately off many buyers lists because the styling is just a freakshow.
I mean, seriously! Some young college grad female buyer...looking for that first new car? No way would she look at this thing! Even if its got class A mechanicals!
So the car is not bad, but the wrapper is not at all pretty. That's the source of my huge disappointment. Build me up, then drop the bomb. Typical GM.
One last comment about that center gauge. I think one of my main problems with it is the incongruent look to the dash. The dash doesn't fit together in one harmonious piece. It looks slapped together with no regard to aesthetics, with lines going every which way. It doesn't flow smoothly. That is what makes it look so distasteful.
There are way too many factors that determine vehicle mileage. Going to tell you right now I rented an L200 and on the way back from a 300 mile highway trek it got 36mpg. Now let me tell you about my car, 3.5 Aurora average mileage 21.5mpg on trips 27.8. That's a 3.5 liter motor, now check this out, I have a friend with a 2000 Camaro SS. His car regularly gets 28mpg on the highway, that's with a 5.7 liter engine. Here's another Impala LS 3.4 liter getting 31 on the highway. Want some more?? Check this out I have another friend with a Daewoo and it's only got a 2.0 liter engine, average mileage 22mpg.....
You ever wonder why these large displacement engines get such better gas mileage?? The answer is gearing and lots of low end torque. That's typically what will improve your mileage, plus aerodynamics, fuel delivery efficiency, vehicle weight, fuel burn efficiency, exhaust flow, driveline friction, so much more to list....
Oh one more!!!! Honda S2000 2.0 liter that's rated at 20city 26 highway!!
Now compare that to a Corvette Z06 with a 5.7 liter engine, the Honda is lighter, has less displacement, it's smaller, has less horsepower, but wait the Vette gets better mileage!!!! I think that proves my point pretty well...
The funnest thing about that though I suppose is just how much better the Vette is than the S2K..
http://carpoint.msn.com/Vip/Engines/Honda/S2000/2002.asp
Check for yourself!
The S2000 is a different kind of car. It has a certain type of engine, and just because it has 2.0 doesn't mean it's going to be 140hp. It has 220.
Another GM cheerleader?
Great handling is reserved for the more expensive platforms such as the 3-series, the sigma, or the Boxter. (or in my case, the Miata, which sells for several thousand more, but is significantly smaller and less practical than the ION will be) The fwd version of the delta platform has been getting good press in Europe. I have also read positive reports about the rwd version that will show up in the Solstice if it is made. Good and reliable are what one should reasonably expect for a car that sells for less than 20k. Otherwise, what is the point of having 35k plus cars?
But for a commuter sedan, the ION in its upmarket version with the 16 inch wheels and either the 5 speed manual, or, for those of you who must, the 5 speed automatic, looks to be a very good and economical alternative.
Looking at the ION coupe, it looks like it would be able to carry a larger bulkier item. Than the sedan could because of the suicide passenger side door and the front passenger seat folds forward. making for a nice empty space to fit something in with no B pillar to get in the way like the sedan.
Price matters to me because the L300 is our main car and I just need a commuter car, and saturn usaully sells the coupe version for $2000 more than the sedan
regfootball : You have hated everything Saturn has put out (and been very vocal about it). Why would the ION be any different? Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean no one else will either. I think people are capable of deciding for them selves. As for the "plastic" sit inside any other compact car with a similar price and find one that doesn't have lots. They are CHEAP ENTRY LEVEL cars.
I do like the Ion coupe save a few interior details. I'd like to see the sedan in a different color, as I think the two tone effect that looks good is washed out by the silver of the sedan photos I've seen.
sit in a Jetta
sit in a Corolla or Prizm (i used to have a Prizm thank you it was pretty nice, good assembly quality in typical Toyota fashion)
sit in a Focus
sit in a Civic
sit in a Protege (the nicest interior in small cars next to the Jetta)
sit in a Lancer
sit in a anything else non GM in the 15k range.
Now, then go sit in a Saturn S or a Saturn Vue and tell me whether the Saturn is nice or not.
In pics the Ion looks as typical per other Saturn products in interior design and quality.
You freak me out. Jeez, I'm no Saturn hater I just want them to get their **** together. I damn near bought an L series. Why would I buy a car I hate??????? WHERE IS THE LOGIC IN WHAT U SAY???
I am saying this....GM / Saturn desperately needed a hit with this new small car. It was gonna be the first all new platform here for a long time. It had development time and money behind it for once. A new well regarded engine. The ingredients are in place.....
wham! STAPUF steering wheel, center gauges, oddball looks, typical fisher price plastic.
For me its disappointment, not hate. My dad bought exclusively GM as long as I could remember. My first 5 vehicles were GM. I want them to succeed. Every other small car builder can seem to nail all the elements and not produce something so...so.....oddball, incomplete, unfinished.
It's like Shamgun said....
"Saturn always manages to make me not want to buy their product even though I want to. It's as if their saying "we know you want to buy our product, but we'll do this to our car so you won't buy it"."
Amazingly enough, GM has a few powerplants that get exceptional mileage for their power and size.
The L series gets the same gas milage with auto (best in class btw) or stick because the stick has different gearing. You would of course normally expect to get better milage with a stick and most makes/models do. Both ar rated 33 on the highway.
Considering that the ION weighs slightly less - uses electronic power steering - its not hard to imagine that it could get 36-37 mpg in stick form or CVT. One biggie will be the coeficient of drag which I haven't seen yet and the of course the gearing.
So - nothing personal to you Ingtonge - but if you rest your case I'm glad you're not actually a lawyer.
As for the interior - to this day I don't get it. The Civic - Corolla - Focus - Saturn S - all basically look the same to me. Central mounted instruments are a little wierd but I'll reserve final judgment till I sit in one and drive it.
Don't get me started on the 2.2 ECOTEC. This is one heck of an engine - smooth - quiet - and torque rich. 90% of its maximum power is developed by 2200 RPM. The L has plenty of power so in a lighter vehicle with the 3 tranny options (5 speed - CVT - or 5 speed auto) it should be a good performer.
Suspension and ride - we'll have to wait and see. At this point I'm clueless. What I do know is this: the DELTA platform is much better than the current frame and the ION spacefram is made from High Stregth Steel (compared to S series mild stregth steel) Sure with the rear using a torsion beam its never going to be the top of the heap for the twisties but 99.9% of the people I sell to every day could care less about this.
My one problem with the manual is that at speeds upward of 65, the rpms creep over 3k. I believe this is because the Saab manual is not precisely geared to the ecotec. I like the manual otherwise, and respect that the L is meant to be more on the performance side than the ION will be.
I do not believe the ION will use the Saab manual. The automatics offered will be a new 5 speed automatic and the CVT. Finally, the ION will have electric power steering, which saves on fuel as well. IMO, provided the new transmissions allow the ecotec to cruise 65mph at around 2400 rpms, the mileage will be in the S range.