Saturn ION

dunworth · June 2004

I do not like the Red Line steering wheel - it does not match the rest of the interior. The old one which I also disliked at least fit the design of the car. The three spoke shape in the Echo would have been a better choice than the four spoke design which looks fine on most of GM's other designs.

kmag · June 2004

I dont like the steering wheel, the instrument panel, or the exterior styling of the Ion. I own an 02 SL and while its not a great looking car inside or out, at least the design doesnt give me a negative reaction. I have to be able to look at my car and like it to own it, and I cant do that with the Ion. Sometimes a car will grow on me, it took a year or so for the Focus to swing around from ugly to attractive in my view, but the Ion has not made that change.

The seats are another issue. I sat in an Ion at the dealer last fall while my car was getting serviced, and I did like the higher seating position but I was struck by the discomfort immediatly. The bottom cushion is still too short and back support seemed nonexistant. However they are better than the seats in my SL which are the worst I have ever experienced in a car since the 73 Pinto beater I had 22 years ago. Your average lawn chair is more comfortable than these things. I dont know what human shape they used to design these seats, it certainly was not mine and at 5-7 and 160lb I am pretty near average for a man.

Whoever said that Hyunduai makes good seats is right, I had a 91 Excel and it's seats were one of the best, right up there with my dad's 1970 Volvo. The Accent and Elantras I have sat in at the car shows the past few years have also had decent seats.

bfs · June 2004

Has anyone else experienced their Ion feeling like it's going into a passing gear as if you're speeding up trying to pass someone? This happens to me when I'm going thirty miles an hour. I think my car has issues.

dunworth · June 2004

Yes I mentioned the seats in the Hyundai. I also had a Volvo, a 1986 240DL -great seats. The seats in my 2003 Civic are nearly as good. All current Hyundai's and the older ones I have owned (89 Sonata, 94 Excel and 98 Elantra)have great seats, front and back.

Sadly GM puts crappy seats into nearly all of their small cars, including the ION. I found it odd that it would be so in the ION since the car is otherwise like most GM cars with a quiet powertrain and a smooth ride for its size class.

kurtamaxxguy · June 2004

Edmunds has policies about mentioning other links but hopefully I can say Car and Driver magazine recently went into detail on the Chevy Cobalt and all the changes mentioned for the Ion are already in the Cobalt.

So it seems the future ION will be essentially similar to Chevy's Cobalt offering, save for the plastic exterior and trim differences.

pat · June 2004

"mentioning other links" is fine. The ONLY issue we have is with links directly into other automotive message boards. This is explained in the Rules of the Road (link above), the Membership Agreement (link on the left) and in the text beneath the post box (at the bottom of this page).

So link away within those guidelines. And feel free to email me or Sylvia, our Community Manager, at any time for clarification - don't feel like you have to guess, please! :-)

You can reach either of us by using our first names AT edmundsDOTcom.

Hope this helps.

gweilo · June 2004

Anyone else think the impending switch to hydramatic and reduced use of VTI is something less than a vote of confidence for the current Aisin auto 5 and VTI?
I think I feel more comfortable with a more traditional tranny, especially considering the VTI issues. Stopping production, offering an extended warranty and then backing away from the use of a the VTI speaks loudly. Instead of the ION being an early adopter of a soon to spread(within GM) technology, it looks like a failed experiment. Of course, this makes me want to wait for the new versions.

kmag · June 2004

the changes in store for the Ion indicate that the car in its current form is a collection of mistakes. Now they will scramble to put the car right after two years on the market.

Sad to say this is typical of GM small car engineering. Promise a competative vehicle, and produce something underwhelming, under-engineered, or too far off-center for the market. Or all 3. By the time the car is re-engineered, its too late. If the car is not that far from the mark, keep it around without changes for 8-10 years, until it is hopelessly out of date.

Corvair, Vega, Chevette, Monza, Citation/X cars, Cavalier/J cars, Fiero, Saturn, Ion, am I missing any others....

chuck1 · June 2004

I almost sorry to say I have to agree with you. The Ion was an engineering joke the minute it came out. The steering wheel, the seats, the confusing exterior styling. Another one, look at the current Malibu, while it is doing fairly well, it would be doing better with better mainstream styling!

gweilo · June 2004

Actually, I like the looks of both the ION and the Malibu. But as I wring out the remaining miles in my '90 Cavalier wagon (191k & counting), I wonder where a Quad Coupe owner will be maybe 5 yrs down the road if/when the Saturn VTI is a vague memory and they have a few problems. One of the strengths of having multiple GM brands with minor differences is the sharing and proliferation of shared components. More than once I have had good luck findidng direct replacements for otherwise expensive parts at salvage yards. Who will bother to make replacement trannies for low volume Saturn VTI's?

uga91 · June 2004

I can see why the thread "Saturn ION: Prices Paid" is DEAD LAST on the Sedan list. No one is buying them. I looked up on autosite.com and found the latest sales figures. For May 2004, Saturn sold 7421 IONs versus 7763 in May 2003. Year to date, Saturn has sold 34,024 units versus 41,371 YTD 2003. ION sales are way off S-Series numbers--and they keep falling year after year. Right now, I think I know where a lot of compact car sales are going: Nissan. Nissan has sold 9979 Sentras versus 8613 in May 2003. YTD, they have sold 48,566 Sentras versus 38,338 YTD 2003. That is a huge increase! The Sentra received some updates for 2004--I guess they worked. I'm interested to see if the new Elantra-based Spectra that just came out will have any effect on ION sales. My local paper did a story on the new Spectra today and they seemed to like it. With rebates I think you can get a new Spectra EX with ABS, side airbags, cruise, alloys and sunroof for about $15k. We'll see what happens. Maybe the changes for 2005 will stop the bleeding.

alpha01 · June 2004

I think the "changes" to the ION for 2005 will not be enough amid the stronger market pressures that this model faces. The biggest challenge: why anyone would purchase the Saturn over the upcoming, and impressive-on-paper Cobalt. Its a sharp looking car with a nice interior, a wide range of trim and equipment levels, and some VERY GOOD initial press. Check out the article in this month's (July) Car and Driver. After reading that article, it seems that GM has learned its ION lesson, and theres some enhanced/advanced engineering in the Cobalt. So for those who simply must buy GM, why not the Chevy?

Uga91- you mention the Sentra. In all honesty (and I own one), this car is not with the top ranks of small sedans. The rear seat is too cramped, the ride a bit too choppy, and the design- just older than most out there. That said, I love my 2003, with its 2.5L 165 hp Altima engine, head protection side airbags, and 4 wheel discs with ABS. Id say that Sentra sales are up because of the enhanced rebate, which is between $500 and $1000 better nationwide than the 2003 model, depending on which time period you are considering.

The Spectra is a really nice compact at the price, though I cant stand the rear styling. If I had the money though, theres no way I would choose anything over a Mazda 3- simply the best combination of room, style, performance, economy, and safety features out there. For my parents' commuter car, or my sister though, the revised 2005 Corolla still has a lot to offer, not the least of which is a very smooth ride, great fuel economy, excellent crash test results (and now available with side and curtain airbags), and a great interior, especially now with the Lexus-style electroluminescent instrumentation on the LEs.

The ION just doesnt stand out, and unfortunately, I dont think thats about to change.

~alpha

kurtamaxxguy · June 2004

IF saturn keeps the plastic skinning on the ION, then that is an advantage for preventing "mall rash" (dings, dents, etc.).

But if they do decide to ditch plastic for steel exterior, then the only unique thing they offer is their no hassle buying policy (my experience with their service is that it's just as bad as anyone elses).

And - to respond to another poster here - while I miss the Ion's flatter cornering and short turn radius, the Malibu Maxx has proven a much more pleasant car for long trips.

gweilo · June 2004

I agree about the polymer. I'm encouraged to see it as the focus of some recent commercials. But then you would think Saturn's minivan would have had it so it could rebound from the various hazards family life throws at a vehicle. Seems like they have a schizophrenic approach to the issue. Maybe this is their last attempt to embrace plastic. In my opinion, to really illustrate the advantage, they should subject an ION and a ____ to the same abuse and display the difference in repair costs. Industry wide, a lot of buzz has been generated about excessive repair costs after low speed impacts. It's caused Chevy to redesign parts of the Malibu in its second year. The media buzz really only took into account bumper issues. Saturn should capitalize on areas where ALL non-polymer cars are vulnerable...everywhere but the bumper. And after following threads in other car model forums on paint issues, exterior durability in general seems to continue as a concern. But again, I'm sure they have to tread carefully promoting polymer for current models knowing the next generation will have steel. What a mess.

uga91 · June 2004

Keep in mind that the van will be built on the same line along side the Chevy and Buick versions. I guess they could not do metal on some and plastic on others.

vuefor2 · July 2004

Wow, lots of people trashing the Ion. I wonder how many of you have ever driven one?

We absolutely love our Ion 2 sedan and it has been completely issue free. I wonder how many other new small cars have the same quality. Sure there are some cheap parts in the car but over all it's an attractive car with a huge trunk, a peppy engine and wonderfully smooth highway drive.

The improvements to the 2005 are certainly welcome and perhaps it will spur sales higher. I think some bad press gave the Ion a poor start but it really is a better car than it's given credit for.

vuefor2 · July 2004

To the guy that complained about "Ion prices paid" thread being at the bottom, perhaps that has more to do with fixed MSRPs than lack of interest.

kurtamaxxguy · July 2004

Plastic is much harder to fabricate...one reason Ions (at least 2003 models I owned/looked at) tended to feel like a Kit car with so many badly aligned plastic parts.

__IF__ 2005 Ion has ALL the improvements slated for the Chevy Cobalt, keeps its plastic exterior, gets a better interior, and __if__ Saturns' Tennessee plant can get themselves up to Chevys' Fairfax plant quality, then it should become a nice little car and give the Cobalt a run for its money.

Not much else for me to add as I won't be in market for new car for a few years.

len2 · July 2004

i agree with vuefor2-- ive had my ion 3 for over a year--have 16000 miles and have had no mechanical problems whatsoever. i enjoy the ride, the "expensive" features like traction control that are not easy to find on other comparable cars, and the space of the interior and the trunk. the front seats could have been designed more intelligently-but it is,all and all,a great car for the money

legalsec · July 2004

My 2003 ION2 AT is guilty of the above complaints.
I like the sound of it all. Yummy changes. Please do.

legalsec · July 2004

I like what you're saying and it sounds right...I'm probably an uber-fan because my crappy 1992 SL1 refuses to die (it's got over 260K miles on it). My Saturn has had aesthetic, driving-experience issues since 1993, but it keeps driving and I keep putting up with it. I do like what I'm hearing about the Malibu - but personally, I'm not looking to buy a larger car with lower gas mileage yet.

dunworth · July 2004

Actually an Ecotec powered Malibu gets nearly the same highway fuel econ as the ION. That new 3.5L V6 in the Malibu also gets the same highway mileage. I do not know why the ION and the Focus are so much thirstier than the Corolla/Civic. The Corolla even has similar horsepower. At least the Focus is a great car inside and out (reputation not withstanding). Oh well just another thing to make the ION less competitive.

BTW my 1992 SL was indestructible which is why I bought the 2001 SL. The old SLs were great little cars. Maybe not as refined as the Japanese competition but fun to drive, reliable and dirt cheap to run.

I really liked Saturn and GM cars generally. I would have stayed with Saturn if the ION was more like the new Cobalt.

legalsec · July 2004

Between your sentiment for a car less seen and this post regarding ION's flagging sales, it seems you may already be driving a rare/extinct car!

vuefor2 · July 2004

Any news on the 05 redo?

I saw on another site they have the front grill of the 2005 and it looks a little more upscale in my eyes.

We decided to take our Ion to Chicago for a long trip last weekend and it got about 33-34 mpg with the air on. Not bad but not great. Still happy with the car though and highway travel was nice and smooth.

bigdaddycoats · July 2004

I think will be announced on Aug. 1.

orangelebaron · July 2004

I rented a 2004 ION last week in Kauai. Alamo originally gave me a Cavalier against my wishes. The Cavalier was the worst piece of garbage I have driven since I got my license in 1982. No exaggeration. People must be insane to buy them.

I went back to Alamo the next day after losing control of the Cadaver (cheap Goodyear Conquest tires didn't help) and luckily someone just brought back an ION. I was very impressed with the car. It was fun to drive, handled great and has a turning radius of like 3 feet!!! (OK, an exaggeration).

The seats really were not that bad...actually more supportive than they feel initially and I did get used to the center pod which has nice gauges by the way.

The only problem was the tranny which makes noise going downhill like there's a problem...but I was told it's called engine braking... but they will put back the 4 spd tranny for '05.

What I would changes is: REAR DISK BRAKES at least on the highline model. Axe the side mirrors which are hideous looking and put nicer folding mirrors (never gonna happen with GM). The center console (armrest storage) could be a little bigger. The power door lock switch should be right next to the inside handle, not 6 inches away, and the manual lock switch should function in a way reverse of it is now (it should unlock in the same direction of the pull handle in my opinion). The ugly sharp creases in the back fender by the tailights should be eliminated in favor of no creases or a line that matches the curve of the trunk.

Unfortunately I think the only changes to the exterior will be a new grill which according to a picture on SaturnFans website is a generic looking grill that appears to be from a 1997 Malibu or older Volkswagen. The nose clip of the ION was just fine by me...actually one of the few clean, distinctive parts of the styling.

But hey... this is GM...obviously they still have the same old greedy, tired, clueless suits running the show, cheapifying everything and mucking things up.
Until these people are finally gone and GM brass is replaced with more car people, less business people, things will stay the same.

bigdaddycoats · August 2004

http://www.detnews.com/2004/autosinsider/0408/01/b01-228586.htm

kurtamaxxguy · August 2004

Interesting article, thank you bigdaddycoats. Hopefully Saturn will pull off its ION resurrection, and improve their service to boot.

dunworth · August 2004

I saw the 2005 ION at a GM sponsored event recently. Much better interior quality and it has a grill which is nondescript - I prefer the old version.

The steering wheel looks the same as what will be used on the new Cobalt - actually I prefer the old one since this does not match the style of the dash. Still not pretty overall but at least it appears to be better quality. Unfortunately it shared the stage with the new Pontiacs G6 (grand Prix replacement) which was a real show stopper.

I heard a new mid-size Saturn will be announced this fall.

uga91 · August 2004

Saturn announced they are laying off 300 to 400 workers in Spring Hill and cutting ION production by a third, and there is no notice of it here. I guess it's official--no one cares about the ION.

alpha01 · August 2004

Did GM give us any reason TO care about the ION?

~alpha

uga91 · August 2004

I understand. There are only about 3 owners here who ever post. Sales are bad and now production is slowing. I never understood why there was such a big backlash against the ION. I know there have been many reasons listed here, but I feel most of the naysayers are folks who never drove one. This is our third Saturn after a 1995 SL2 and a 1999 SL2. Our ION 2 is larger, quieter and more comfortable than either of our previous Saturns. IMO, the ION is better in every way than the SL that preceded it. For some reason, though, people liked to harp on the small steering wheel (which was small for a reason) and the center IP. I understand the price thing. A loaded up ION does cost along the lines of a Civic, and I'm sure a Civic is a "smarter" buy than an ION. I think that was the ultimate downfall of the LS300. It's hard to have an "alternative" tot he Accord when your "alternative" costs as much as an Accord. The VUE did well, now we learn the rear axle will break upon impact. The Relay may bring in some customers. But, what can you do? There are companies out there that make lower priced options to the mainstream vehicles--like Kia and Hyundai--and I feel that market is taken care of. Oh well, we may not own our ION for a whole heck of a lot longer anyway. We're talking about trading it in for a larger vehicle in the Spring. We'll see what happens.

bporter1 · August 2004

I have yet to drive an Ion, but I don't see what would make me come into a Saturn store to give the Ion serious consideration. To me it is typical GM. For a brand new design it should be a little better than the competition ,but alas it is not. In many ways it is inferior. Price being one of them. I mean a loaded Ion is close to $19,000, a loaded Civic or Corolla is cheaper and there is some movement on the sticker price. I really want to like the Ion, but the more I think about it, the more I want to wait for the Chevy Cobalt. I know the Ion will be better in 2005 but who cares, the auto press slammed the Ion pretty good. Although I see a lot of them on the road.

chuck1 · August 2004

The Ion is a disaster. The steering wheel, while it is small for a reason, it is a joke. Who wants a bumper cart steering wheel in their automobile? As is the exterior of the Ion. The rear of the car has a lot of "confusing lines". And who wants to buy a car at any price with uncomfortable seats? The market place has spoken. The Ion is not competitive. Of course, when you slap enough rebates (i.e. Flex Cash) on anything, you will sell some!

stevengordon · August 2004

I'm shopping Scion and Civic right now for an automatic for me and for my sons to learn to drive with. I, too, would like to like the Ion. I've test driven them twice (Ion 2) and came away with the impression that the Ion was adequate. But it didn't have anything that would contribute to the discussion.

Customized roof rails, center IP, circular theme to the interior upholstery? Unique, but that's not a truly functional uniqueness that can sell the car against a Civic or Corolla.

Why not a liftback design? Then you sell the Ion as unique vehicle, a cross between sedan and hatchback. A car for practical people.

How about some unique storage options inside? How about an engine that's best-of-class in MPG?

What's unique about the Saturn are things that aren't on my shopping list. Sorry GM...I would have liked to have married into your family.

dunworth · August 2004

I have driven the ION several times and although it does ride well and is quiet, I could not get past the aesthetics and horrific quality of materials. Having owned 2 Saturn SLs, I was not prepared to be this disappointed. If Saturn can not keep Saturn (and my family has owned many other GM cars previously)owners, how will it appeal to people not initially inclined to the brand? I feel bad that such a terrible design is causing people at the factory to lose their jobs. Assembly quality has always been high on the small Saturn - it is not their fault.

In Canada, the ION1 is a bargain - comparable to Hyundai Accent (yes the smaller one) but the latter cheap little car is so much better put together and a far more acceptable design. And each Hyundai just keeps getting better. Move up to the ION2 and the price is more like an Elantra. The Elantra is vastly superior to the ION in nearly every aspect, and certainly in appearance.

Now the upper end of the ION2/3 moves into Civic/Corolla/Mazda3 territory -all industry benchmarks. Even if you want something different the capable Lancer is a great buy - well equipped, wonderful to drive and Corolla-like build quality, plus great warrantee. Or if you want a US brand - the Focus which drives like the German car that it is. It is not perfect but a great cheap ride with fantastic diving dynamics.

Finally we have GMs own competition - the cheap and cheerful Daewoo products (Aveo and the Canada-only Optra). Nice designed with so-so powertrains. Spend ION3 money and get the Chevy Cobalt and the Canada- only Pontiac Pursuit. The latter is especially attractive.

If GM wants to save the small car market for Saturn they need to do a version of the Cobalt for Saturn on the quick and call it the SL. The ION brand is about as valuable as the Aztec.

GM's current recall-of-the-week track record also does not inspire confidence to those who have never owned a GM vehicle. My family's own experience with their vehicles since 1978 was nearly all positive. However I know of too many friends who are currently having all sorts of quality issues on cars GM has been making for years.

Come on GM we all know you can do better - I'll come back home, just give me a reason!

dan165 · August 2004

I've never driven an ION, but I see them all the time driving around. I think they sell ok here in Canada but maybe not in the SUV loving USA.

dunworth · August 2004

Canadians love small cars. They bought the old SLs by the boat load. In comparison, you see a lot fewer IONs although they seem to be fairly common here in the Toronto area. I have two on my small street.

dan165 · August 2004

ION has only been out for 2 years, the SL was sold for 10 years.

vuefor2 · August 2004

Have not been here in a while. Ion is running well, still zero complaints. Anyone seen an 05 with the new grill and dash?

I still think the old is good. Love the car, solid as a rock!

dunworth · August 2004

dan165: the last reskin of the SL lasted only three years (I had a 2001, to replace my 1992). In their last year of production they still outsold the ION.

Vuefor2: Glad to hear your car is doing well - it mirrors the generally positive experience I had with my 2 SLs.

I have seen the 2005 ION changes up close (see post 3154). I think the current design for the grill and the steering wheel actually fit the car better than the '05 revision. The changes are not in keeping with the car's overal design theme. The steering wheel really looks out of place - I preferred the one that looked like the pot pie. Interior fit and finish as well as quality of materials appears to be dramatically better.

kurtamaxxguy · August 2004

Car and Driver did an article about a month ago on the new Cobalt, and apparently some (but not all ??) of its features will trickle into the 2005 ION. Will be interesting to see if Saturn "cheaps out" on the interior and the rear suspension ..vs.. the Cobalt.

To recap, I thought the DESIGN of the ION was pretty decent and definitely a step above the older SL series. Unfortunately the ION quality is really hit or miss (J.D.Powers seems to agree as they rate Saturn quality much lower than Chevy or most other GM divisions).

To comment on another poster here, I'm getting the same results Consumers Union got in their tests (the 6 cylinder Malibu engine is outdoing the 4 cylinder Malibu/ION engine in power __and__ gas mileage (26 ..vs.. 24 mph.).

Should also add that here in Los Angeles, I see __lots__ of IONs on the road, but have seen only __one__ 2004 Malibu (the sedan, not the Maxx)

charlie2 · August 2004

We just bought a new Ion 3 for my mother-in-law. I wasn't sure if she would like the Saturn but one test drive and that was it. We got a $3,000 rebate so we opted for the Ion 3 with a few extra bells and whistles. I drove it on the test ride first and then turned it over to my mother-in-law to drive. I really didn't want to give it up. For the money I was extremely impressed and thought the car was quite nice. We were treated like real people at the Saturn dealership. There was no pressure and we were made to feel very comfortable. Buying a car at Saturn is actually a pleasant experience. Other car salesman are like sharks. I feel like I am not in a place I want to be when I walk into other car brand dealerships. If every car dealership treated people like they do at Saturn it would be so much easier to shop for a car. Anyway, my son has a 1994 Saturn SC1 with 168,000 miles and it runs like a top. I bought a new SL2 for my mother in 1999 and we haven't put any money into it except oil changes and a new horn that needed to be replaced. I have a friend that I helped buy her 1993 Saturn and she just traded it in and got the new ION. Her car looked like it just came off the showroom floor when she traded it. I keep getting Saturns for other people. When it comes time for a new car for me I will finally get a Saturn of my own. I just like that car.

dunworth · August 2004

Congrats on the new car purchase. Glad you had a good experience. My overall ownership and purchasing experience was excellent with both my Saturn SLs. I owned one of the first bunch of Saturns that can into Canada. It was a 1992 model (we got them one year after our US neighbours). It was the best (reliable, trouble-free)car I have ever owned (though I have owned and currently own slightly more expensive vehicles). The second one had a few more quality glitches that were addressed by the patient local dealership. It too was a flawless car in terms of reliability. Saturn quality was always pretty decent and the car appeared to have fewer recalls or TSBs compared with other North American cars.

The high driving position in the ION is one of its great features (and a must for when I was car shopping) but the new car was just too much of a radical departure for me to buy again (my wife however loves the styling). Plus the ION got 10 mpg (imperial gallon)less on the highway than my old SLs. Gas is expensive up here and I drive alot. It was one of the deal breakers, especially considering the car was a lot cheap than the one I bought. However the ION does have a nice quiet ride and decent handling. I am sure you will continue to get many years of enjoyment out of this car. Enjoy

charlie2 · August 2004

Thank you. That was very kind of you.

dunworth · August 2004

http://www.forbes.com/columnists/columnists/2004/08/17/cz_jf_0817- flint.html

This Forbes article is written by one if the auto industry's favourite curmudgeons, Jerry Flint. He has been an auto analyst since the 1950s and seen everything. I do not always agree with him but sadly he is more right than not. AT the very least he always raises some interesting points and knows his automotive history.

dunworth · August 2004

http://www.forbes.com/columnists/columnists/2004/08/17/cz_jf_0817- - flint.html

This Forbes article is written by one if the auto industry's favourite curmudgeons, Jerry Flint. He has been an auto analyst since the 1950s and seen everything. I do not always agree with him but sadly he is more right than not. At the very least he always raises some interesting points and knows his automotive history.

fformula88 · August 2004

Thats a good writeup in Forbes, and I think it hits the nail on the head. The Saturn S Series was a really good small car in 1990, it was a decently good car in 1995, and by 2000 it was awfully long in the tooth, with revisions basically consisting of minor interior and exterior styling revisions. It still wasn't a bad car, but the competition all had rolled out at least one new version of their compacts, with some of them having a couple redesigns under their belt. They eclipsed Saturn, and Saturn had no answers.

The L Series was doomed from day one. In the midsize sedan market, you have to be good to compete, and you have to be as big as the competition. This car was a step below the competition, its V6 engine was mediocre at best, and anyone who cross shopped it with a Camry, Accord, or even a Taurus would have found it to feel a little tight inside.

Hopefully their new products can reinvigorate the brand. However, if Saturn is about to become another division of GM, is there really a point in keeping it? It still has some of its import fighter image, but if they offer a bunch of rebadged Pontiacs and Chevy's, that image will die too. Also, can no haggle pricing work on a Saturn when Pontiac is piling on the discounts for what amounts to the same car just down the road?

Now back on topic to the Ion. Are there any Redline owners on the forum? This seems like a car that just doesn't get its due from the press. There have been hardly any reviews out there, and if any other company put out a $20K car with a supercharged engine, they would be all over it. Saturn is also doing next to nothing to market the car.

dan165 · August 2004

Actually the L-series with a V6 was faster than V6 Accord, Camry, Taurus and most other V6 sedans. Problem with the car was drab looks, interior and quality issues. I drove a V6 L back in 2001 and it was FAST. I seriously considered a 2004 V6 L300 but I still preferred the looks of my GP.

dunworth · August 2004

I have read many reviews of the Red Line vehicles in Canada for the Vue and the ION, all of them very positive.

In fact much of the debate about the car's appearance did not really surface in the Red Line reviews, possibly because the design of the coupe is the more successful of the two ION body styles. I quite like the coupe's overall appearance - it looks great in silver or black with the black interior.

Red Line would probably be a bigger success on a vehicle that has been less controversial and a large dealer network. No doubt GM is bringing the RedLine powertrain and hardware on the sharp-looking new Chev Cobalt and the even more attractive Canada-only Pontiac Pursuit variant.

BTW the base pricing on the Pontiac Pursuit is similar to ION so GM will be competing with itself (again).

Saturn ION

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