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I then began to see references on this site to a similar problem variously described as the "4th gear noise" or the "torque converter lockup" problem. I've checked with Honda every time I've brought the car back, but my dealer still claims ignorance.
To me, it sounds more like the transmission is lugging (i.e., it's upshifting too early, like when you shift a manual transmission car into 4th at only 25 mph and then try to accelerate). At one point (probably 1.5 years ago) I saw a message on this board saying that one dealer had told an owner that a potential fix was in the works, so at least someone had officially recognized the problem. I lost interest after that since we rarely drive in that speed range anyway, although it is an irritating noise.
Mark
Honda Odyssey 2000
The problem I had was referred to as a Torque Converter Lockup problem by the dealer.
The symptom was the inability of the transmission to pick a gear around 40-50 mph on a slight incline with slight acceleration. To the driver this would feel like a surging, but other passengers may not even notice. The most notable symptom was the tachometer jumping up and down about 500 rpms.
The dealer did eventually replace the transmission, but it took me awhile, because it was really hard to recreate.
The way I was finally able to recreate it was get a long straight stretch of road, ideally with a slight incline. Accelerate to around 45 mph, then let off the gas (very important). That should cause the RPMs to drop to about 1400 or 1500, then start accelerating very slowly, but consistently (don't let the rpms get to high). Try not to speed up too much, (this is why the incline helps), but the RPMs remain relatively stable. Then suddenly, the RPMs will jump (I think the torque converter unlocks), immediately after that, it then decides to 'lock', so the RPMs drop down to where they were. Then up, then down, etc. This will go on until something changes (more gas, let off the gas, speed gets too slow, speed gets too fast, etc).
I finally did this with a service manager in the car, and a 2nd time with a mechanic in the car. Later the service manager told me the mechanic was able to do it by himself. They intended to hook up a computer to it, but not sure if they did. After that they finally decided to just replace the transmission.
Over time, it did get easier to recreate the problem. The new transmission has never had this problem, but it seems to shift a little harder than the first one, but not bad enough to complain about. I think the transmission was replaced around 20000 miles. The new transmission now has around 17000 miles on it.
The dealer in this case was Lute Riley Honda in Richardson, TX.
It may well have been your note that I saw a year ago. I also saw other notes that referred to a torque converter lockup problem. Perhaps I confused those problem descriptions with my own, but I thought at least one note I read described symptoms that were very similar to mine.
My case is definitely a bit different than yours. My transmission doesn't hunt for a gear like yours did. In fact, if I slow down, it stays in 4th pretty firmly. It also doesn't seem to happen just when it's pulling a load (such as when we're climbing a hill). I just get the feeling that it's upshifting too soon, hence the sensation of lugging. If you put the car in 3rd manually, it goes away. In fact, one of the service managers at my Honda Dealer recommended that I fix this by always driving in 3rd gear!!! (Gee, I'm only getting 17 MPG now; I wonder what I'd get if I never used 4th?)
Did they change your transmission just because of the problem you described? That was good service. Based on some accounts, I had assumed your transmission would have to be mostly dead before Honda would swap it out. Although your problem did sound pretty severe. Mine is more of an irritant than anything, but why should a $29K car have a "lugging" problem?
I would have classified mine as pretty much an irritant also, but since it continued to get easier and easier to do, I think they understood something was wrong.
I also did forget to mention that if I ran in D3, the problem went away. D3 basically disables the torque converter, so of course it will not have that problem.
Maybe one of the reasons they changed out the transmission, was because I got to tell them about having to drive 100 miles on icy roads between Louisiana and Texas around 40 mph with heavy traffic. Ideally, I would have been able to drive with contant speed a few car lengths from everyone else. But instead, the transmission kept doing its thing and I had to either give it more gas or slow down. Not good on ice with alot of traffic. That went on for awhile until I figured out that D3 made the problem go away.
That was an interesting trip. We got to spend midnight new years eve 2001 stuck in a backlog of cars on the side of the highway near Longview, TX. Perhaps some of you remember watching a Bowl game from Shreveport, LA that was in a heavy snow fall (we drove right by that.)
I haven't been on this site for a while and I have missed a lot of good stuff.
I have an '01 Ody with 50,000 kms on it, (thats about 30,000 miles). I first noticed this noise last year in July just before starting a long road trip which covered about 5,000 miles through the south-east US. Before we left, I went to my local dealer with my concerns and a technician came out for a ride with me. He says he had never heard a noise like this before, and figured it was emanating from an air-intake (?). Assuring me that this was not a problem, other than a strange noise, we went on our holidays. He was right, there was no problem. (By the way we averaged about 22 mpg, not too shabby for a big van.)
Now my wife has become aware of the noise. and like some previous writers here, I can isolate the noise as occurring in high gear at around 50 mph when I am accelerating. I guess its time to revisit my local Honda dealer and get serious with them.
Thanks to all for making me aware of a potential big-time problem. I'll definitely stay tuned at this site for more news.
Anyone else have this problem? Any fixes, without a trip to the dealer?
Why can't Honda, with their reputation for good engineering, design a sliding door that works? I also own an '88 Mitsubishi van with 190K miles on it and its single (right side) slidler has never had a problem. My previous Nissan van never had a problem with its slider. My neighbor's Dodge van never seems to have a problem with its sliders. Why can't Honda get it right???
I picked the Ody partly because of its size and utility, but also because of Honda's reputation for bulletproof reliability. What a disappointment! The transmission goes bad, the tires wear very rapidly on the inside edge of their tread surfaces, and the sliding doors have to be repaired every few months. If I wanted this kind of hastle, I could have bought a Caravan or a Windstar and gotten a much better deal. Frankly, when it comes to making minivans, Honda sucks!
More fluid was put into the system and it took about a quart. The entire system holds between 6 and 7 quarts, I was told. I just "cringe" with the thought of any transmission problems. Yes, there is a stain on our garage floor where the van is normally parked. I would love some advice if any of you kind folks have any. thanks!
Thanks for your input!
A common shade-tree mechanic "fix" for a GM used car with a slipping tranny was to stick the grittier Type F fluid in there, and fool the buyer - for awhile. To do the reverse for a slipping Ford tranny would only exacerbate the slippage.
I haven't kept up with the DC/Honda requirement for a less(per Dave594) or more(per Crkeehn) slippery Dexron-type fluid, but I can't see how the method of actuation of the clutches - be it hydraulic pressure or electro-mechanical, whether computer-controlled or not - should make any difference IRT the gripping qualities of the fluid.
I'm trying to say that, tho there may well be a difference in the fluids required, the method of clutch actuation should not be the cause of that difference.
If the requirement for a fluid different from Dexron is real, I'm surprised that this didn't generate a new type of fluid - call it Type DCH or whatever, particularly since DC puts out such heavy numbers of vans.
Honda also requires the use of their specific ATF in their transmissions
I am not going to discuss about whether DEXRON III is technically equivalent to Honda ATF-Z1 or not. IMHO due to some Ody transmission problems posted, I am not going to risk my Honda Warranty in case my Ody transmission acting up. Honda could blame on not following owner's manual for not using Honda's ATF-Z1, and I have to pay the bill.
NO SIR.
Honda ATF-Z1 only in my Honda.
ben
Seeing all the pre 2002 tranny problems on this message board would be alarming for any car. The fact that it is a Honda and so many dealers play dumb is dissapointing.
I love my 2002 Odyssey, but this is definitely a case where waiting a few years on a "new" model paid off.
Make sure you didn't replace your brake pads too soon. My old Mercury Villager front break pads only last 15K miles. I just took my 01 Ody to get 15 k miles service. My front brake pad has 6 MM rear shoe lining has 4 MM left.
According to Helms Manual ( I don't own one, I heard it 2nd hand information) states 'Standard' front pad thickness is 10.5-11.5 MM, service limit is 1.6 MM. The '01's drum lining 'Standard' thickness is 4.5 MM. Service limit is 2.0 MM. 'Standard' is the same as new, from elsewhere in the manual.
I drive my Ody much aggressive than my old Villager. So my front brake pad wore out 4.5-5.5 MM in 15k. I should have 10-15 k on my front pad, and another 45-50 K for my rear lining. It is much better than my old Villager brake pads.
bjk
By the way, the maintenance schedule on page 230 of the owners manual has the tranny fluid change interval at 45,000 miles or 36 months under normal conditions. Severe conditions are 30,000 miles or 24 months.
I have right at 30,000 miles after three years but the dealer says a fluid change will not help the leak or shift pattern. Question, since it leaks just enough to get the underside of the housing greasey but does not drip yet, do I just drive as is or push for a replacement? The goofy shift pattern has been the same since new, no better but no worse. I do have the HondaCare 7/100,000 warranty also. Opinions?
I have a 01 Ody EX. I don't even purchase Honda Warranty. You purchased Honda Extended Warranty exercise your right if there is something wrong about your Odyssey.
I agree that more people are likely to take the time to complain than give apprasal (human nature), but then again this thread is for Odyssey problems.
It does not appear to me to be an aberation of tranny problems with the Odyssey pre-2002. And the fact that Honda made the effort to change the transmission in the 2002 model is a clear indicator that they realized there is a problem.
Why else would Honda make the effort to upgrade the tranny in the middle of a design cycle?
Your logic would suggest that bump in HP from 205 to 240 (a major engineering change) was a result of a problem with the engine.
My 00 Ody with the "problematic" tranny has no bumps, clunks, slips, etc of any sort.
I have a 99 with over 61,000 miles on it. My OEM Firestone tires lasted over 48, 000 miles. My rear drum brakes are the original, I replaced the front disks at a little over 50,000 miles. I get an average of 20.5 MPG with a little more highway than city driving. It still runs like new.
well maybe not funny but its odd to me that Chrysler MV's have been known to drop transmissions early and now Honda and both require special fluid.
Of course, if Honda says it voids the warranty then I'm not going to argue, and I'm going to do what they require.
Before my Odyssey, I had a MBZ ML320 and it had all kinds of build quality problems, but the tranny was great - it was a mechanicly sound car with many annoying build quality issues. The Odyssey tranny issue leads me to believe there is a design issue and Honda corrected it by replacing the part altogether. Perhaps it helped excellerate getting the newer more powerful engine as well - who knows?
Honda sold appx 450,000 Odys for my 99-01. Statistically, the sampling here is insignificant - perhaps less than 50 unique examples.
Honda designed MDX to kick butt in luxury SUV market so they have to get as much out of Engine and Tranny as possible. In this case Odyssey get the benefits from MDX, keep in mind MDX and Odyssey are assembled side by side. Once they converted Ody to match MDX engine and tranny, they can drop two different assemblies and double the volume, this means alot in mass production.
Also Ody is due to have a redesign in 2004, some rumor says it may increase engine from 240 HP to 260 HP. If Odyssey gets 260 HP engine, does it mean current 240 HP 3.5 L is a piece crap. NO SIR/MA'AM.
They keep on improving on their design so we consumer will keep on buying new car. Just like buying new pc every couple years. My old pc still works great for what I need to do. Internet surfing, balance my check book and some minor stuffs. But I want to get a new 2G PC with all the fancy stuffs.
Well these are my two cents!
ben
If you look at the 'problem' threads for other cars you will typically see a manage of issues. This one sticks out to me. You also need to recognize the tranny as being one of the most expesive things to fix in a car. A bad fuel pump or starter would be relatively minor.
We just got a 2000 EX it seems to do a wierd thing if you take a corner to close. As you enter the turn the interior lights will flash on and off. Also after making a sharp turn there is a low buzzing sound from the side doors. This remains constant until you press the "close" buttons for the both doors. Has anyone had experience with this?
Sounds like a door switch problem to me. Maybe contact is dirty, try clean gold contact with IPA wipe or rubber eraser then IPA wipe see if it will help?
bjk
I'm having the same problem occasionally on my '99, and I'd like to know what your fix was. If it was a repair, what exactly did they repair?
Unfortunately, I'm at 61K miles with no extended warranty.
Thanks for the info.