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Sure Escape made it up the hills, but lost about 15 mph while I held the pedal to the floor. There was no power whatsoever. The Scangauge read 99% engine load.
CR-V on the other hand, just keeps climing hills while maintaining speed.
75,000 miles is nothing. It used to be the 100,000 mile as the marker of dependability, but that has been pushed to 150,000 miles. I am sure a Kia and Hyundai can drive for 75,000 miles as well.
The real reliability test comes in after 200,000 miles. This is where Ford is missing the beat. Of course it does not make sense for a company in financial trouble making reliable cars, since people will stop buying them. Once you brain wash your customers that blue oval is the thing to stick with, then you can generate repeat sales every 3-4 years. If you make a car that can run for 20 years trouble free, then you will have to worry if they come back soon enough to plop more cash down for your car. Luckily, more and more people are reapizing that blue oval or bow tie has been brain washing them all these years and cultivated a culture where if you wanted a reliable car, you had to buy new every 3-4 years. Japanese, build cars to last. You don't need to keep getting new car once it approaches 100,000 miles, you just keep driving it.
Oh yeah, and we all paid sticker, since none will deal on a car. None at all.
For those left drowning in the deep sarcasm, I apologize.
Oh, my goodness. I had a 2003 CR-V (and like Honda), and now I have a 2006 Ford Freestyle. This must mean my brain is double-washed. :confuse:
I actually test drove the 2006 Escape Hybrid, but compared to the CR-V, I found it a bit tippy (feeling) - and this at about 15 MPH! So I didn't purchase the Escape... :surprise:
Geez, buddy. You've got some serious issues! :P
Nah! It's just fastidious and thorough spring cleaning! :shades:
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
Escape is indeed tippier. It leans a lot more in corners, which does not inspire confidence. It also leans forward a lot when braking.
I think that VSC is standard on the 2008 model?
VSC keeps the car from rolling over or otherwise losing control. Even if the body rolls a bit, I would have confidence it won't go out of control.
I would have gotten the 2006 Escape Hybrid if VSC was available.
i guess it 'depends' on what you are used to.
VSC keeps the car from rolling over or otherwise losing control. Even if the body rolls a bit, I would have confidence it won't go out of control.
I would have gotten the 2006 Escape Hybrid if VSC was available.
Body roll is not an indicative of the vehicle's tendency to roll over. A Freightliner/Mack truck does not lean much, but you take it around a corner at speed and it will roll over.
Roll over is a function of the wheel width, speed and cornering angle. Body roll is just not very comfortable thing. It may limit the traction you get at the opposing end of the vehicle (turck leans to the right front, lower traction at left rear). But don't confuse the two.
VSC may or may not help with roll over. Someone doing 90 mph, driving with one hand on the phone and the other holding a coffee cup, while tweaking the radio is not going to benefit from VSC when they jerk the wheel.
You guys are forgetting that Ford's system is the same as Volvo's and includes RSC, or Roll Stability Control. Now I don't know how much it can do in blue's example but it is supposedly a very good system from what I've read.
Our Explorer has the new system with RSC and I can't say I ever activated the roll system for sure but I may have and not known it. The only time the VSC/RSC light flashed is when I swerved to miss a deer doing ~45 mph on a local highway. The manuever was so smooth I was shocked. I was expecting tipping and skidding but instead it was like a normal pass around a disabled vehicle in the road if that makes sense. The kids in the back didn't even flinch and my wife still can't believe there's no damage to the truck. We were really close to it when it jumped out in front of us.
The reason that VSC equipped vehicles have fewer roll-overs is directly attributable to the driver NOT losing control of the car, and then leaving the road..
Some high-end vehicles have anti-rollover technology, but the standard VSC in most vehicles have nothing to specifically help that. They just help you to maintain control.
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Every new Ford, i.e. it's new SUVs and CUVs, with AdvanceTrac and RSC has the same exact roll control as every new Volvo. It's not just higher end vehicles that have the roll control anymore and IIRC Ford was the first to offer it in a mainstream vehicle. with the 2005 Expedition. I'm pretty sure GM has something similar in it's SUVs too now. Don't know if it's as good or better than the Volvo system in the Fords though.
I think all it really is is an extra gyroscope and computer code.
They also state "For light trucks NHTSA also uses a dynamic (moving) driving maneuver test. Vehicles that tip up on two wheels in that test are noted with an asterisk".
In the vehicle profiles section CR says the 07 Escape, Tribute, Mercury Mariner and Saturn Vue tipped up in the rollover test.
Replying to: kyfdx (Mar 29, 2007 2:36 pm)
Some high-end vehicles have anti-rollover technology, but the standard VSC in most vehicles have nothing to specifically help that. They just help you to maintain control.
Every new Ford, i.e. it's new SUVs and CUVs, with AdvanceTrac and RSC has the same exact roll control as every new Volvo. "
OK, but this discussion started when I stated that the 2006 Escape Hybrid I was considering seemed tippy, and that year did not have any stability control.
9. How is the dynamic maneuvering test conducted?
The dynamic maneuvering test uses a heavily loaded vehicle, to represent a five-occupant load, and a full tank of gas. Using a fishhook pattern, the vehicle simulates a high-speed collision avoidance maneuver—steering sharply in one direction, then sharply in the other direction—within about one second. Test instruments on the vehicle measure if the vehicle's inside tires lift off the pavement during the maneuver ("inside" meaning the left wheels if turning left, and the right wheels if turning right). The vehicle is considered to have tipped up in the maneuver if both inside tires lift at least two inches off the pavement simultaneously.
The tip-up/no tip-up results are then used with the SSF measurement as inputs in a statistical model that estimates the vehicle's overall risk of rollover in a single-vehicle crash. The overall risk of rollover for the particular vehicle will fall into one of five ranges of rollover risk and thus determine its star rating (1 through 5 stars).
seems vague to me. what is 'high speed'? it didn't actually roll over, either. it just felt like it.
I'm not sure what your point is because I wasn't responding to anything you typed. Also, a 2006 Escape would not fall into the category of a "new" Ford. Only 2007 and 2008 models fit that bill now. The "new" model Escape is the 2008 and it does have AT with RSC. Besides, I always felt our 2005 Escape was too tippy and I noted that in a previous conversation with blueidgod.
Are you considering trading your Freestyle in for a Taurus X which will have AT with RSC among other things?
Vehicles don't need "high speed" to rollover in an emergency maneuver. Especially higher profile vehicles such as suvs.
You state "it actually didn't roll over, either. it just felt like it."
I rather drive an suv that has a lower risk of rollover. One that doesn't even "feel" like it will.
A vehicle can be more likely to tip but never "feel" like it will. I'd put our Explorer into that group. It never feels tippy yet it has a higher likelihood of tipping than the Escape IIRC. I could be wrong about that particular example but I'd wager there are others to prove my point.
I can say that we do "feel" much safer in the Explorer than we did in the Escape though. All the safety nannies and the sheer size of the thing greatly influence that.
other than that test, both the escape and cr-v have been around for a while and they have not been associated with being rollover risks.
risk tolerance does play into it. some are ok with driving on 2 wheels all the time(motorcyclists). :P
I first encountedred this Honda in Japan in 2001, at Honda headquarters in Aoyama. It is even more amazing in person.
I think we all know which company invests more into future proofing itself, and it is NOT FORD
Markets currently covered by Honda:
Automotive
Motorcycle
Marine
Power equipment
Robotics
Air planes
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Oh yeah, April Fools!
Maybe you should give your money to the company that invests in the future, and will be there to back you up with parts when you need them.
I have no problem getting parts from Honda dealer for my 1983 Honda Bike. I do remember having hard time getting Ford parts in 1999 for girlfriend's 1988 Ford Taurus. I had to go aftermarket, since the dealer said Ford did not supply those parts anymore.
Can you say with 100% confidence that Ford will be around in 20 years when you need parts for your Ford product? Of course, there is a big chance that by that time current Ford vehicle will not be running anyway, so why bother making parts for it.
And no, Scape2, 75,000 miles is not long distance enough to judge vehicle's reliability.
That's plenty long enough if it keeps breaking down. :P
I figured my van earned the reliable tag after getting to 100k without any significant issues. Age does in my cars more than the miles but I'm hard pressed to think of any ride I want to pay more than $3 or $4k for once it passes 100k. If it's a higher end car that maybe justifies a premium price at high miles, the potential maintenance costs kills my enthusiasm.
I'll give my money to the company that makes vehicles that I or my wife like. I will not throw it all at one company because they built a robot and an airplane.
Can you say with 100% confidence that Ford will be around in 20 years when you need parts for your Ford product?
If I kept a vehicle for more than 3 years I might worry about that.
I think you were following the train of messages that started with my statement.
No, I don't think I will be going for a Taurus X. I like the CVT and I don't think the vehicle needs stability control. In any case mine in only 1 year old at this point...
It's very refreshing to hear that. The way people used to argue about that on the mid-sized sedan thread was crazy IMO. I think it should at least be an option on everything but SUVs and not necessarily standard.
I heard on the radio a few minutes ago that the government just mandated VSC on all cars starting in 2010.
Right on. Our Explorer lets you use a reduced mode or shut it off completely. There are times you may not want it and I fear this new mandate will bring many a system that are cheap and non-driver friendly just so they say they put VSC in the vehicle. Can you see Kia or Suzuki putting a nice VSC system in their econoboxes? It's going to be cheap and dirty IMO.
Also, I don't feel a car like the Civic needs VSC. What's the base price going to jump to after they have to add it? I think we're going to be staring at $18,000+ base prices for compact cars now. Prices of the systems will come down for the manufacturers eventually but I doubt they'll pass the savings on to the consumers.
Are you kidding me?!? Stability control is UNIVERSALLY hailed as the biggest improvement in safety since the seatbelt. Not airbags. Not structural changes. Stability control. The government thinks so. All of the major car magazines. Yikes!!!
:surprise:
WASHINGTON -- Ford Motor Co. said Tuesday it was recalling more than 500,000 Ford Escape sport utility vehicles after receiving reports of engine fires linked to corrosion on antilock brake connectors.
Ford said the recall involved 444,880 Escapes from the 2001-2004 model years in the United States, and about 75,000 Escapes in Canada, Mexico and Europe. The recall does not affect hybrid versions of the SUV, the automaker said.
Dearborn, Mich.-based Ford said there have been about 50 engine fires connected to the problems, which had been under investigation by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration.
"There have been no reports of accidents or injuries. We have identified a repair, and owners of affected vehicles will be notified soon," said Ford spokeswoman Kristen Kinley.
The company said the recall would address missing or incorrectly installed seals on the wiring harness of the antilock brake connector.
Water and contaminants such as brake fluid or road salt could enter the connector and cause corrosion. That could lead to the ABS warning indicator lighting up, an open fuse or in some cases smoking, melting or burning of the electrical ABS connector.
Dealers will inspect the vehicles for corrosion and replace the connector and ABS module if necessary. Ford said it expects most vehicles will not have any corrosion concern, and will have the connector greased and reconnected.
Owners can call Ford at (800) 392-3673 for more information about the recall.
IMO VSC should not be standard in every vehicle produced. SUVs and SUV-type vehicles do need it IMO, but most cars don't. Unless you want it, then you can opt for it and pay for it. Why should I have to pay for it if I don't want it?
As for solving the problem of idiots driving, we've always had them and always will. Stability control or not, people will do stupid things.
It was determined that the Honda fires were caused by gaskets left on when the oil filters were changed. You seem to imply a cover up on Honda's part, do you have any evidence?
The company said the recall would address missing or incorrectly installed seals on the wiring harness of the antilock brake connector.
This seems like a manufacturing/quality issue. Apparently Quality is not Job 1 at Ford.
It's all over the news guys.
This is the first I heard and I read three newspapers and watch the new everyday. It's a conspiracy I tell you. The media has swept this under the rug (sound familiar LOL).
I'm not implying a cover up but I do feel they should have recalled the vehicles seeing the problem was filters that were installed at the factory. Even after they issued the warning fires still occured. Proof of that is on the CR-V threads of these forums if you want to find it.
This seems like a manufacturing/quality issue. Apparently Quality is not Job 1 at Ford.
The "incorrectly installed seals on the wiring harness of the antilock brake connectors" was a manufacturing issue as were the over-tightened oil filters at the CR-V factory. Same thing if you ask me. At least the ABS light came on first to warn the Escape owners of a problem. There are stories of people having to get their kids out of car seats in a panic from CR-Vs that were fine one second then engulfed in flames the next. Nice. :sick:
It's a conspiracy I tell you. The media has swept this under the rug (sound familiar LOL).
Yes it does and that's exactly why I'm clarifying.
Yes it is. Won't argue there.
Honda already includes it standard on almost every vehicle (except the S2000, I believe), without affecting the pricing
Why do you believe that they aren't charging you for it? Is Honda in the business of giving things away for free now? Isn't it possible that they cut a corner somewhere else to make it look like you're not paying much for it? Isn't it also true, whic IIRC it is from news articles I've read, that Honda raised all MSRPs the year they made all the bags and VSC standard? I'm pretty sure it was front page news in some major papers.
If your manufacturer is trying to tack a huge fee on to have this feature, they're ripping you off.
Price is only one of the problems. It will get cheaper so that part of my argument would become lame eventually. That still doesn't solve the problem of manufacturers installing some crappy VSC system (i.e. poorly programmed) that is overly-intrusive and gets in the way of spirited driving. Why do you think the S2000 doesn't have it right now?
I also pointed out in the past that I don't mind them putting VSC in everything as long as I have control over it. If it had been in my Mazda6 or in my current Mustang I would want to shut it off quite often. In my Explorer I can limit it or shut it off which is perfect. However in that application I want it on all the time and feel it should be on all the time.
Actually, the S2000 does have VSA. It is, however, defeatable, just like the other Honda vehicles offering VSA (Accord V6, Odyssey, Pilot, CR-V, etc...)
just another case of 'if you sell a lot of product and it has a problem, the recall will be big'. i am not happy about it, though. :mad: