Honda Odyssey: Problems & Solutions:(1995-2004 Models)

14950525455126

Comments

  • srb123srb123 Member Posts: 10
    Hi all,
       This is not an Odyssey problem, but this happened in an Odyssey:). I forgot an unopened coke can in the cupholder which got blasted off because of freezing temperature, spilling on the radio, dashboard and on the roof near the reading lamps. Recommendations for detailing products will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

    -s
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    If you are used to a two bulb per side system, you will notice the lower output and compromises in pattern that a single bulb gives. My Caravan was terrible, the Windstar pretty good, the Honda is a notch below the Ford, but not bad. All three were single bulb. When you have separate reflectors for low and high beam, you get the optimized pattern. Most also allow both bulbs (possibly as much as 3 filaments lit) to be illuminated, increasing total light output and giving pattern overlap - something the single bulb system lacks. You get to see some of the possibilities when you pull back on the stalk slightly and have both filaments lit in the one bulb.

    You should have the dealer check aiming, and maybe even ask them to raise them a tad over the nominal spec to improve distance.

    Higher wattage bulbs may be too much for the plastic housing, or the wiring harness / relays to handle. Some report that different brands may improve the situation by virtue of a different filament winding or position within the glass envelop. A small positional change with relationship to the reflector can have a big effect on spread pattern. For a few bucks it might be worth a try.

    Steve
  • hayneldanhayneldan Member Posts: 657
  • kpnykpny Member Posts: 5
    Well, I've just about had it with my 99 EX. I've had all the problems that have been discussed on this board, I had to replace my transmission last year for $800, had all the early door problems. Now I have new problems with the doors, and it's not the bitter cold here in upstate NY that's causing them. I need more new parts (not the latch that's in the recall). The best the dealer could do for me was a 15% discount on the repair. I want to sell this thing now while everything is working (I should keep my fingers crossed) but I just don't know what to replace it with. I like the Pilot but can't take that chance. I also like the MDX but with war on the horizon I don't want to worry about paying for premium fuel.
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    Thanks for the link to the bulb site. Supports what I said about light output of single bulb systems vs. dual. My Subaru (two bulb headlamps) has 1380 lum on low beam, 3080 combined on high beam. By comparison, my Honda (single bulb) delivers 1000 on low beam, 1650 on high. Clearly (no pun intended), the single bulb system, no matter how good the reflector behind it, is at a great disadvantage.

    Steve
  • branch15_5branch15_5 Member Posts: 44
    I have the same problem as katmicale --

    * Driver's side door won't open (pass. side is fine).
    * When the power door switch is on, the warning beep sounds as if the door is open

    I tried your steps from post 2648, but no dice (I did notice that the clock did NOT go off with the Power Door fuse removed). I also tried removing both Auto-Close fuses. Still nothing.

    BTW, this problem just started all of a sudden. Working fine, then it went out.

    One more thing (and I mention this only because it seems some others were affected by this) -- it is very cold in Raleigh today, when the problem started (15 w/ wind chill below 0 -- hey, that's cold for us!).

    Any additional thoughts on what this might be?

    Thanks so much for your help.
  • auburn63auburn63 Member Posts: 1,162
    I forget the fuse number but it is the 4th one in on the top row in the passenger side fuse box. So open the fuse box lid and count 4 in towards the firewall on the top. It should be a 7.5 amp fuse and wil make the clock go out,,Good luck
  • 03oddity03oddity Member Posts: 60
    Our brand new '03 EX-L RES showed 7/8 tank when we left the dealer...I thought, "That's funny, usually they fill them up for delivery." At 1/2 tank I filled up, but that only required 4.5 gallons. Took it in, dealer replaced the sending unit in the gas tank. Now the gauge reads full when the tank is topped off. Haven't gotten it anywhere near empty yet. Stay tuned.
  • dchoppdchopp Member Posts: 256
    Help is on the way. Check out the New 2004 Toyota Minivan which will go on sale in March. Its a honey.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    I don't understand it - no one seems to want to talk about these two vans in the Honda Odyssey vs Toyota Sienna discussion. Let's try to take the shots over there eh?

    Steve, Host
  • branch15_5branch15_5 Member Posts: 44
    I owe you one.

    The fuse is labelled "Clock Backup".

    I removed it, replaced it after 30 seconds, and the door worked fine.

    Thanks again.
  • phil47phil47 Member Posts: 394
    "...over there eh."

    You wouldn't happen to be a wannabe canuck would you? Honourary designations can be arranged...eh...
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    I honeymooned in the Yukon and have been to every province and territory (except Nunavut - no road dang it!). I'm only 14 hours south of Calgary - maybe I can get up there one summer for your Fringe and you can take me to Tim Horton's in your Odyssey for coffee :-)

    Steve, Host
  • phil47phil47 Member Posts: 394
    You've probably seen more of Canada than most Canadians!
  • auburn63auburn63 Member Posts: 1,162
    Always good when something works the way it is supposed to. Glad all is ok.....
  • emgarciaemgarcia Member Posts: 3
    I am having the same problem and the car is at the dealer at this time. They can not find out what is going on. they are calling their tech group in California. Did they ever fix the problem and if they did what was the problem?
    Let me know ASAP, my e-mail is emgarcia69@hotmail.com. Need help with this issue
    Same as yours, warning lights lit up like a Xmas tree while driving a couple of times.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Skoretsk hasn't posted again since last March, but hopefully he is still lurking in here.

    Steve, Host
  • bri1217bri1217 Member Posts: 3
    I've been away from Edmunds for a few years (since buying my van and switching jobs) I have a '99 Ody LX, 81,000 miles on it. Yes, just past the extended 8/80 warranty for the EGR valve.

    As if on cue, our CEL came on and the dealer says it is the EGR valve AND the catalytic converter. About $1,000 to fix both. We already had the EGR valve replaced in 06/2001, at around 40K miles. (yes, there was a TSB at the time but our dealer claimed ignorance so I had to recover my $220 from Honda after the fact). So it appears to me that this is a recurring problem.

    I printed somebodys instructions on clearing the port by removing the manifold and spraying cleaner in. I don't really want to do this since I feel it should not be necessary - but I guess I'm resigning myself to the fact that Honda dropped the ball on this portion of the engine design. Somewhere else there is reference to reaming it out with a drill, but I have not found the specific reference.

    I have appealed to American Honda about covering the repairs under warranty, they promised to call "in 3 to 5 business days". Performance and mileage seem OK, but my wife drives the van the most so maybe I just haven't noticed. The dealer refuses to cover it since it is over the 80,000 miles, I've since found someone else here in town (recommended by more than one friend) that I may check with to see if they could do the work for less.

    Is it considered bad form to buy parts over the internet and pay someone else to install them?
  • dsm6dsm6 Member Posts: 813
    Do you know any of the details on the issue? The reason I ask is that I had a Chevy on which the CEL came on twice for an EGR valve problem. The code I pulled off indicated an EGR valve solenoid failure, so I replaced the valve with a new one. The problem returned very shortly after, at which point I took it to a professional mechanic who said it needed yet another new EGR valve.

    I had my doubts, since I had just put in a new one, so I investigated further. It turns out that the real problem was that the passage from the EGR valve to the intake was clogged - this is evidently quite common for this particular car due to the narrowness of the passage and the crap that is often in the exhaust gases which builds up easily.

    The upshot was that all I needed to do was spend some time cleaning out the passage - I used a straightened coat hanger and a stiff pipe cleaner to do it - no new EGR valve was required at all as verified by the fact that the CEL and EGR valve failure code didn't show up again after cleaning the passage and clearing the code from the PCM. So, I went from a couple hundred dollar repair to a zero dollar, easy, do it your self repair. To be fair, the assumption made by the pro mechanic, I believe, was that if the passage was clogged, so too would the EGR valve itself be clogged. He was incorrect primarily due to the fact that the passages in the EGR valve were much larger than the passage from the valve to the intake. A bit of a poor design.

    Perhaps your situation is similar? Hard to tell without more details, cars being so complicated these days.

    Reminds me of the time I fixed both the cruise control and the HVAC controls on that same car with a free piece of vacuum hose. An unscrupulous repair shop could have taken me for hundreds of dollars on that one.
  • MartypaMartypa Member Posts: 50
    Purchased in Nov 02, 4100 miles. It has been pulling to the left and out of alignment when purchased. The front end was realigned and this improved, but did not eliminate the pulling to the left. It continued to worsen. I took it back to the dealer again(after 2 months) and it was found to be out of alignment again!!! After realignment (4 wheel) the problem improved again but is still noticeably present. It is so bad that I am continuosly having to fight the problem by steering to the right. Frustratingly so. The service manager at the dealer stated that "This is common on all Odysseys-they follow the grooves in the road". I am taking it back in again to take a drive with a technician. I feel the the amount of pulling is simply unacceptable. Has anybody else encountered this problem??? If so, is there a fix??? All comments would be greatly appreciated!!

    Thanks

    Marty
  • bri1217bri1217 Member Posts: 3
    It turns out that the real problem was that the passage from the EGR valve to the intake was clogged - this is evidently quite common for this particular car due to the narrowness of the passage and the crap that is often in the exhaust gases which builds up easily.

    I'll try and figure this out. Our last EGR valve replacement was at approx 40,000 miles. It might just be a clog like you said.

    My plan for the moment is

    1) wait and see if Honda will cover the repairs, since I am 1,000 miles over the 80,000 mile repair warranty.

    2) if they will not, I'll pull it apart and look for a clogged port. I'll also take it to an exhaust shop or other local mechanic (I have received a few recommendations) to have the catalytic converter checked out.

    Thanks for the advice!
  • seguyseguy Member Posts: 133
    I had that on our ody as well. Noticed it from the very beginning, but was hesitant to bring it in right away. I wanted to make sure it wasn't my imagination. I brought it in and got it fixed at 700 miles. I'm happy with the results so far after 2 weeks. Maybe you should take it to an alignment shop to have a look at it.
  • dsm6dsm6 Member Posts: 813
    I've heard this one many times before from various dealer service departments. How come it seems that this is often the answer, but practically never the solution?

    Or maybe it's often the solution, but practically never the asnwer. You pick.
  • MartypaMartypa Member Posts: 50
    Was your Ody out of alignment???? If not, what was done to fix it?
  • rob123rob123 Member Posts: 21
    I have 1,000 miles on my 2003 and it pulls
    to the left too.I plan to have mine aligned
    at first oil change
  • donbroerdonbroer Member Posts: 15
    I have a 2000 EX with 53000+ miles. It has never pulled to the left or right. You should be able to release your hands from the wheel and not have to correct the steering for at least 5 seconds or longer--assuming no crosswind or crown on the road. There have been many mesages about drifting in this forum. IT IS NOT NORMAL for this vehicle.
  • wpalkowskiwpalkowski Member Posts: 493
    There was an alignment problem prevalent on '99's, & '00's. When vehicles were shipped to dealer, the vans were chained down to the car carriers with hooks attached to a subframe in the front end. Evidently, they tightened the chains too much and caused the front ends of the vans to go out of whack in such a way that it couldn't be corrected with a "normal" alignment. Folks reported taking their hands off of the wheel and having the van completely change lanes in less than 5 seconds. To solve the real problem, Dealers actually had to loosen this subframe and shift it back to proper position and then realign the van. Didn't have this problem with my '00, but remember multiple posts on this topic 2 years back.

     Maybe Auburn or some of the regulars who've been here for a long time can shed more light on the subject, or possibly refer to a TSB? Anyway, sounds like maybe the car shippers are being a bit too zealous again and the problem is resurfacing on the '03s.
  • wbhlwbhl Member Posts: 4
    I got my 2000Ody, EX, 49K, a couple days ago. Have some questions for you kindness help

    1.
     I can hear whistle when I speed up ( for example from 0 increased to 30Mile/h, sounds like a police car several bolcks behind you .And it will disappear after I keep the same speed.

    2. changed the battery but the dealer could not find the password to reprogram my Audio/CD/Tape system.
    3. Clock could not seen in the dark
  • chelseafootchelseafoot Member Posts: 2
    I have an '02 Ody and I need some advice before making a trip to the local dealer. Here are the problems:
    1) road noise - when driving, every semi-major bump causes the van to shudder and is extremely loud. It almost sounds like the struts/shocks are bad. I'm used to driving a sedan. Is this normal?
    2) Clunking/cracking sounds - when backing up, I've noticed a clunking sound in the rear. I've emptied the back of all cargo to no avail. Also, recently the van makes a cracking sound when turning slowly.
    3) The DVD picture is less than clear - lines are visible in the picture regardless of the dvd being viewed.
    Thanks in advance for any help.
  • wbhlwbhl Member Posts: 4
    I noticed in this post that 2000 ODY has 7 years transmision warranty by factory. Is that true?
    My dealer sold me $1600/2year power train warranty for the 2000 ODY Ex. I just want to cancele it. Any comments are heighly appreciated.
    Thanks for your help
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    You should get a notice from Honda if your Odyssey is one of the ones covered by the warranty extension. Detroit Free Press

    You can cancel your extended warranty at any time. The dealer may pro-rate your refund depending on when you cancel, and if you are financing the warranty through a car loan, you won't get cash back, but your loan terms will be adjusted.

    Or so I understand....

    Steve, Host
  • goodlandinggoodlanding Member Posts: 11
    What should I do?

    While I was doing the walk around prior to acceptance of my silver '03 Ex/LNavi on Saturday I noticed some dirt under the color coat right next to the passenger side door handle. I look closer and there's more problems all around there and additional issues on other panels. The salesman tells me no problem, they will take care of it and if it takes longer than a day, they will supply the rental. The parts man says...oh, you need approval of a rental to the salesman. Make an appointment they say. Foolish me, I drive off with the car. Yesterday I call them to let them know I am coming in. After 9 calls, surprise, no rental. I talk to the sales manager and he tells me they will take me home. Come in at 9 so that he can take care of me he tells me. I can live with that. I take the day off from work. I go in today and after an hour waiting for my ride, no ride home. Now they tell me to bring it in sometime next week. Whenever its best for me. I ask them to set a date, they can't, phone calls have to be made. Well, I can wait for a phone call. No, its always done with voice mail. Not even a try. So it turns out they will let me know when its best for me. The internet manager ignored my voicemessages and pages yesterday. One salesman told me that he was looking at him and after he took down my phone number, transfered me to the parts dept. He said that he was sorry for not returning my calls when I visited his office and turns into my best buddy.

    My question is should I just forget about it? The car seems to fill our needs otherwise. They are talking about buffing it out. I could live with that too. The only problem is that its under the color coat, more than just a speck and if they cut the clear, that's it isn't it? Will I have to live with sags, orange peel and fisheyes? Should I just go around and open the door really quickly so that people can't see the defect? Maybe a sticker? I really am at a loss.
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    Item #2 - Check on the glove box wall or the owners manual folder for a tag with the radio code.

    Item #3 - Others have reported the clock light out. IIRC, it does require some disassembly to get to, or an hour or so labor at your friendly dealer. Maybe someone has details of the procedure???

    Steve
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    Item #1 - the van does resonate more sound in that big hollow space than does a sedan. The biggest source of noise in my '02 is sliding door and tailgate moans and groans. I found that well lubed rubber seals cut down on the noises considerably. Dealers use Shin-etsu grease, but you can use most any rubber protector (ie like Armor-All) to do the job.

    Item #2 - you may be hearing the rear disk brake carrier/caliper/pad free play. It makes a 'clunk' from each wheel (sometimes a second or so apart) each time you transition from foward to reverse and back again. I find it strange, but it is normal as per a service dept bulletin I was shown.

    Steve
  • gthicksgthicks Member Posts: 2
    My wife and I loved our 2000 Odyssey LX, but we have gotten rid of it. Let me see if I can relate a short version of my tale of woe.

    I wrote to American Honda on 8 January 2003, asking for their assistance with the expense of replacing my transmission. I received a call on 28 January from a young man named “Jared,” who explained that, because my Odyssey had almost 113,000 miles on it, American Honda would be unable to help me.

    I received Honda’s letter about extending the warranty on the transmission from 36,000 to 100,000 miles in December 2002. As I explained to Jared and stated in my letter to Honda, I started experiencing the problems Honda’s letter described in the early fall of 2002, when my vehicle had fewer than 100,000 miles. Had I known about the warranty extension, I would have taken my car to Honda for warranty repair at that time.

    After receiving the letter about the known problem with the transmission, I took the vehicle to the service department at the closest Honda dealer.

    When I returned for the vehicle at 4:00 PM, my service writer said that he had let the car cool outdoors (it was a snowy day) from 8:00 AM, when I dropped it off, until 1:00 PM, but that no transmission problem had manifested itself during his test drive.

    I got into the vehicle to drive home, and, as usual, the engine revved between gears and the transmission slammed into gear. I thought of driving back to the service department to show the service writer the indications, but I decided the transmission would have warmed by then and there would be nothing to see.

    My plan when I bought my Odyssey in February 2000 was to drive it until the odometer reached 200,000 miles and then trade it for a 2005 Odyssey. I am unhappy that I am unable to do that. I am bitterly disappointed that American Honda abandoned me, even though my problem arose within the extended warranty period.

    When three weeks had passed since I first wrote to Honda, I was beginning to think that I would receive no reply. By the time I heard from Jared, in desperation I had gotten rid of the vehicle.

    The problem with the Odyssey’s transmission is widely known. In my estimation, I received $4000 - $5000 less for my car than it would have been worth with a reliable transmission. The Honda dealer who sold it to me new offered me $2600 less than a Toyota dealer paid me for it!

    The 2004 Toyota Sienna is due out in March 2003. Before Jared’s call, my plan was to wait until then, compare the new Sienna to the Odyssey and buy the winner. Now that I have received Jared’s call and heard Honda’s decision, I would have great difficulty choosing the Odyssey again.
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    While I feel for you, I don't think Honda is any different in this respect from the competition. After owning several Toyota vehicles (all bought new), I too was given the shaft when I suffered tranny failure at 65k miles. My problems were documented from 20k on, but the dealer stonewalled. I could hear a singing bearing which I described as probably being in the final drive section (road speed dependent / load dependent). Service mgr even told me to turn up the radio and stop listening! Yet when one of the final drive bearing sets welded itself to the race, they told me if it didn't actually fail within the 60k powertrain warr, go pound salt. Same answer from district, and again from California.

    So now I own a Honda instead of another Toyota. But realistically, I don't expect to be treated any better if the same were to occur. Very sad!

    Steve
  • deepandeepan Member Posts: 342
    out of curiosity why do they do that. Dont they get paid either by the customer or manufacturer. They probably have to do some extra work in convincing the manufacturer but why are they hesitant. Are there any reasons for this.
  • grandtotalgrandtotal Member Posts: 1,207
    Two reasons I suspect. Firstly they probably get paid less for warranty work than for regular work. Secondly, if Honda are anything like GM they have a limit for how much warranty work they may undertake. In the case of GM my dealer said they were sorry they couldn't repair my van under warranty because if their warranty repairs were too high in any given year then GM sent someone to audit them. That's how I came to own a Honda.
  • gthicksgthicks Member Posts: 2
    fibber2 Feb 5, 2003 9:02am
    Steve,
       If misery loves company, I guess your comments did make me feel better. Thanks.
       Even more therapeutic was the opportunity to make Honda's actions (or, inactions) public.
    Jerry
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    I read around Town Hall somewhere that the manufacturers audit the service departments and backcharge the dealers all the time for warranty work done that the manufacturer thinks shouldn't have been done.

    If there's a borderline situation (like just out of warranty), chances are the dealer is going to try to protect its bottomline and whack yours.

    Steve, Host
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    is the determination of whether it adversely affects functionality or is just a perception of a problem to come. In my case, the district mgr was very emphatic - it didn't fail (seize up) during the warranty period. He did not deny the fact that I had called it correctly, and had it documented several times for thousand of miles. A noise is just a noise. An incredibly strong case would have had to be made to change out the tranny during the covered period, because the home office would probably reject the dealers bill. And after the warranty, probably even harder to do. Many probably run for years with loose tolerances, pitting, etc on bearing surfaces.

    An interesting aside - California told me that while they fundamentally agreed with me, they would not override the NY/NJ district office. They were a cost center, and the regional mgr had the last word on this stuff.

    I went thru something similar years earlier. I had a Datsun with sloppy drive shaft u-joints. They clunked and I complained. Same treatment - it isn't broken, just making noise. But they lasted 170k miles, so I have to accept that Datsun knew what they were talking about when they dug in their heals. My mental pain would have been eased, but at an expense they did not want to bear.

    Steve
  • bri1217bri1217 Member Posts: 3
    This is a follow up to my post from late last week.

    Summary: Our 99 LX had the CEL come on at 81,000 miles. We took it to our dealer and (of course) it was the EGR valve AND the catalytic converter, both had to be replaced and we were quoted almost $1,000.

    We already had the EGR valve changed in June, 2001, at approx 41,000 miles. At that time the dealer denied it being under warranty (in spite of the TSB from almost a year earlier) and we paid full price. This was later refunded to me by American Honda with their apologies, saying most certainly my van was covered under the extended warranty.

    When I was told it had to be done AGAIN, and told it was not under warranty (they admitted to knowing about the extended warranty this time, but said I was 1,000 miles over and there was nothing they could do), I immediately called Honda and asked for help. They took my information and said it would take 3-5 business days to get a decision.

    Apparently by Monday (the next business day) they decided it was covered, but due to playing phone tag I didn't find out until last night and didn't confirm it with the dealer until today.

    Today the service manager (acting like he was doing me a favor) said "And we'll also refund the $60 diagnostic fee!"

    bottom line: We're getting the car fixed, the only cost was a few minutes on the phone and loaning them our $60 so we could have our van back (they don't have the parts in stock anyway). I am almost willing to bet money that at 120,000 miles I will have to get another EGR valve. Maybe we'll have the van paid off by then :-)
  • MartypaMartypa Member Posts: 50
    I took my Ody in and took it for a drive with the service manager. He agreed that the amount of pulling was unacceptable. The wheels were still in alignment. He stated that this is a frequent problem with the Odyssey and offered to put new higher rated Michelin tires on the van-at no cost to me. I took him up on his offer. Unfortunately, the tires won't be in until after my upcoming 2500 mile round trip to Florida. I will let you all know if the new tires help the problem(the service manager stated complete eradication of pulling at 80%).

    Marty
  • bdesaibdesai Member Posts: 24
    We love this van so far but I have one concern. I am going to paste the same post I made in the prices paid forum.

    for 1000 off sticker at 26360 including destination but before taxes and title. Doc fees were only 38 dollars, a dollar for Indiana tire tax. No other crazy garbage fees. The van was ordered by someone else who cancelled. The van had arrived at the Dealer lot just the day before (12 miles on Odo). There was very little haggling, best dealer experience ever for me. The salesman was Ira Mercurio at HondaWest in Indy, threw in cargo tray which I would rec to anybody. I really appreciate the Honda way of equiping the trims (Dx, Lx, Ex etc). This leaves very little to haggle over and so you don't waste your time. I think I will be a Honda fan for a long time. One issue though; when the car is first started in the morning in the cold and than shifted into reverse there is a thud with which the transmission shifts into gear just a second after the shift lever is placed in reverse. This does not happen once the car is warm later in the day. Is this normal behaviour for the Odyssey transmission or should I have it inspected. Any thoughts ?? Thanks.
  • grandtotalgrandtotal Member Posts: 1,207
    ...is normal in cold weather.
  • bdesaibdesai Member Posts: 24
    But my other car ('98 Camry) does not do this. May be because the 4 cylinder I4 is not torquey enough to "shake/thud" the vehicle when it engages the transmission at relatively high revs when cold. Does that make sense? I am not very mechanically good so bare with me if it sounds like hogwash.
  • tastetaste Member Posts: 37
    I can't remember which board I read this on but figuring this one is quite popular perhaps I can get the question answered here.

    What is the law in California about bringing in out of state vehicles? I read something like you cannot register or bring any vehicle under two years old because of CA emissions? Can anyone elaborate on this?

    Thanks,
    taste
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    The state of California DMV has some good faqs here:

    Vehicle Registration and Title Information

    Any new car must be California certified to "import" it there, and most cars sold in North America are.

    Steve, Host
  • dominickc1dominickc1 Member Posts: 22
    I have 1,800 miles on my Touring and not one bit of problem. I sold my 04 Honda Odyssey EX-L I had nothing but troubles with that one it was a mess when I got it and it ran like crap. My Touring runs like a $50,000 Van. :)
This discussion has been closed.

Your Privacy

By accessing this website, you acknowledge that Edmunds and its third party business partners may use cookies, pixels, and similar technologies to collect information about you and your interactions with the website as described in our Privacy Statement, and you agree that your use of the website is subject to our Visitor Agreement.