My test for the left lane dominator vs a safe driver traveling fast but being careful is do they indeed follow the 'rule' that many try to use to justify having the left lane open for their speeding...
If I note a driver coming up from behind, usually on a 3 lane interstate, and moving over to the middle lane where there are openings and moving back to the left, 3rd, lane to pass, then I see a good driver who is going fast.
If I see a BMW or Suburban size vehicle coming up in the left lane, never moving over where middle lane is open, and running up on people in the left lane to 'make' them move over, I see a left lane dominator.
The safe driver has me move over when practical or speed up slightly until practical. The dominator can pass on the right.
Oh I'm usually going 5-7 over the limit. Sometimes 10 over. Not exactly poking in the left lane especially when the traffic is moderate to high.
In line with what you are saying, from the point of view of one that is overtaking, I ideally begin to pass on the right when I am just slightly "legally" behind, to a long ways back of a LLC or one who is REALLY trying to pass and will move right when it is safe to do so. If a person (rare) is signaling to get back to the right upon completion of his pass, I will do what it takes to let him comfortably complete his maneuver.
If I am the one being over taken (in the left lane), as soon as the GIB (guy in back) is within legal range to a long ways back, I begin to signal to move right. It is deceptively simple really!! (Keep right except to pass: slower traffic keep right!!?? I am sure most of the LLC er crowd have NEVER SEEN THESE SIGNS, nor remember it from the vehicle codes) . We are just hearing the myriad of excuses to justify the "UP YOURS" I am in front of YOU mentality.
I often feel almost forced to drive in the left lane because of the relatively abysmal condition of the right lane surface. I *will* move over for you, though.
"grbeck - Maybe the fines can be put toward my property taxes. "
Politicians and lawmakers have been doing this for literally decades. It is really a lot of the reason we have the problems that we do. So to the extent that we want to minimize failure, the fulfillment of this pipe dream has been a woefully dismal failure.
I don't know where you are, but all my property taxes have done is GO up!! It goes up in Good times, bad times, normal times, catastrophic times! OH GEE! Seems to be a trend here!!??
" We are just hearing the myriad of excuses to justify the "UP YOURS" I am in front of YOU mentality. "
This is the type of mentality of many left lane dominators: "It is MY lane. Get out of MY way. Safe driving be darned." Here it's being "projected" in the psychological sense onto the thinking of the person using the left lane.
"...remember it from the vehicle codes." Odd that someone forgets the vehicle code about safe driving, speed limits, and tailgating and wants to remind others about vehicle codes.
This aggressiveness is exactly the characteristic I talked about in an earlier post. The safe, good driver remembers the stay right code and moves in and out of the middle lane himself/herself. The aggressive driver is "get-outta-my-way"!
Keep up with traffic or move. It's that simple. If the cars in front of you are vanishing over the horizon, and people are lining up behind you, you're in the wrong lane, no matter what some arbitrary limit set by useless cowardly appointed overpaid underworked talking heads says.
In this area of the midwest BMWs were some of the earlier cars to have aggressive driving traits on the part of some drivers. They seemed to show up behind people flashing their brights to hurry up and get out of their lane.
Flashing brights used to be a good way to communicate, when I was taught to drive. However, today in a lot of cases, this can be translated by some to be a kinder and gentler "Italian" salute, aka middle finger salutation.
In Europe flashing brights had been a ticketable offense, but then again so is leftlane camping.
used to be illegal in Maryland. I dunno if it is anymore, with the advent of daytime running lights. The proper way to flash someone was to turn your regular lights off and on repeatedly...NOT blind them by flashing your high beams!
I think the limit was that you couldn't put your high beams on within 500 feet of oncoming traffic, or within 300 feet of the car in front of you.
who want to drive with their high beams flashing were with BMWs. Maybe they were early with the turn signal stalk to flash high beams instead of turning the lights on and off. I also remember VWs doing that...
Then I found later that some cars had put this on the turn signal for easy flash-your-brights.
Flashing lights and or brights used to be almost a standard way of operating. On cross country trips, we would routinely do it with in front slower moving big rigs. They in turn would either signal it was all clear or in some cases blow the air horns if on coming traffic was too close. They would also flash you when your back end cleared their front space cushion comfortably. To this day when being passed by a tractor trailer rig (very very rare) I will flash the brights to let em know their rear end is clear from my front space cushion. Nine out of ten times I receive a reply. Geez they must think me old school!
When I was a kid, we moved my grandmother's belongings from Tennessee to Massachusetts in a Ryder truck. I thought the signalling protocol between trucks was really cool.
I had an oncoming guy flash his headlights at me in broad daylight yesterday afternoon... seems he was warning us of a radar trap in the weeds alongside the road up ahead to us, behind him. Darn nice of him!
How do you let people know your intentions without using cues like lights etc? If I am coming up on a tractor-trailer which has a signal on, I flash my lights to let them know it is ok to move over; usually I get a "thank you" on/off of the taillights once they are fully over.
A different situation that I deal with, (one that reading these forums has caused me to look at from different perspectives) occurs on multi-lane highways, low traffic, higher speeds:
Right lane occupied with the slower moving traffic, I am doing most of my driving in the middle lane, going out to the left to pass, moving back to the middle once pass is completed.
What do you do in the following scenario: Passing, and a bit ahead is a car travelling slower than you are in the left lane. Do you flash that person, while you are still some distance back, to let them know that you are there, and planning to pass? Do you just sit behind them (some distance back), wait for them to notice you and move over? Do you pull back in to the middle lane and pass with no indication?
I am not a big fan of passing on the right, and am never absolutely sure that the person ahead is using the mirror; if I am going to pass on the right I would usually flash from some distance back, signal the lane change if they did not signal that they were moving over, then pass, reasonably sure that the person knew I was there.
That's close to what I do if I'm catching up to a vehicle in the left lane that has room to move to the right.
I will give the driver in front the benefit of the doubt if he is passing traffic on the right or he is held up by traffic in front of him. Once he's clear, I will first wait 10 seconds before flashing or "blinking" (turn the headlights off then on, usually done at night). I will wait 10 more seconds before signalling my right turn light and passing him on the right. Note that I will not do this unless I am reasonably sure that there is a 30-second window in the break of traffic on the right lane.
Of course, the most annoying drivers to me are the ones that pull around to get right in front of me, then end up going slower than what I was originally going when in the clear and refusing to move right, forcing me to repeat the above procedure. Maybe I'm much too nice...
I look for "tell tale" signs and take an educated guess. If the car in front is not signalling and/or moving to the right, normally, then chances are (50/50 and usually much less)flashing the lights aren't going to motivate.
I think one should lower ones expectations that you will be at or close to 100% correct in your (move over, not move over; I move let, him move) assessments.
When someone moves right for the over taking car to pass, I do make it a point to thank folks that do this by waving. Despite the tendency to think that this is "road competition", we do SHARE the road with folks. I do sense that the last couple of posters like to pass as fast as safe and as possible and not be a burden to the folks who just did the friendly and correct thing.
when someone moves over for me is to pass them fairly quickly, so that if they do have to get back over (for example, now that they're in the right lane, they're gaining on a slower car in front of them), they can do it.
One thing I REALLY hate is when I get over to let a faster car pass, and he slows down and ends up pacing me! And then we come up on a slower car, and I either have to slow down and get behind him, punch it and blow past him and get back in front of him, or get boxed in.
A subset of that, though, is the slower car that takes F-O-R-E-V-E-R to pass a car in the right lane, but then as soon as he gets over for you, he punches it and gets up to like 80 mph. Why couldn't he have just done 80 mph in the fast lane to begin with, instead of wasting your time?!
Yeah to me that is doublely dangerous. The whole idea is to NOT snails pace SIDE BY SIDE. This is one of the major reasons DRAG racing is SO dangerous. You wind up accelerating SIDE BY SIDE. If you do go side by side you don't have a lot of options, should you want, need or have to take evasive manuevers. You have also tried to eliminate the most precious commodity: empty space!! The other thing is, since we share the roads, I want to be as predictable to the ones I share the roads with.
Usually if you decide to take the laid back approach and hang back people will feel no sense of urgency to get over because they get the impression you have no problem slowing to 60 mph. Usually I'll close to within a car length to let them know I'm not content to sit behind them pacing the cars in the right lane. THEN I'll back off a bit. They get ten seconds if the road is clear, then they get passed on the right as quickly as possible.
As a general rule and courtesy to other drivers I try to signal my lane change intentions in advance of moving over, be it to pass someone on the left or if necessary the right. Unfortunately the proper use of turn signals seems to be a forgotten art on the part of many other drivers, (probably caused by 1 too many people driving for many miles with an errant blinker and no intentions of turning) as often it seems other drivers are oblivious of my car as I attempt to merge onto a highway and they occupy the rightmost lane, or when I need to leave the left lane, the person approaching me from behind accelerates and passes me and the even slower traffic ahead of me on the right, AFTER I turn on my blinker and start to merge over. I will admit to doing my fair share of speeding (often to keep up with traffic) but not through construction zones, hazardous areas, or where I know there to be heavy enforcement. So often I am looking ahead to find openings in traffic, but also keeping a sharp eye on my mirrors to be aware of those to whom no speed limit would be high enough. I drive a big, fairly quick car these days, but there are still many people who scare me with their maniacal or absentminded driving styles out there.
Thanks for reminding me of the courtesy lights with the truckers, I haven't seen/done that in years. It's something I followed a decade back when I started driving interstates regularly on my own, but in recent years the practice has slipped my mind as I haven't seen it used as often.
last week, there was a tragic accident on Route 301, in Southern Maryland. The way I understand it, around 5:00 in the morning, a Crown Vic taxi cab was going northbound. There was an Escort wagon stopped in the left lane, with its hazard lights on.
The Crown Vic veered to the left, across the median into the southbound lanes, and hit a dump truck head on. The dump truck then lost control, cut across the median itself into the northbound lanes, and whacked an '80's Regal, an '80's Monte Carlo, and a roach coach.
The resulting pileup caught fire, and at least 3 people died.
Now I actually got into an argument with a co-worker over this one. She says they should throw the book as the Escort owner for leaving the car on the road. However, I disagreed, saying that you should focus more on the cab driver. Forget for a moment that he swerved to avoid an Escort. It could have been anything in the road. A cat, a dog, a pedestrian, a fallen tree. A huge piece of junk that fell off of a truck. A wing chunk from a passing 747. A crater left by a sinkhole. Anything.
The simple fact, in my mind, is that the cabbie chose to swerve into oncoming traffic, and a head-on collision is the most severe type you can have, as it gets compounded by the momentum of the other car.
Besides, if you have a choice between hitting an Escort or hitting a dump truck...well, it seems like a no brainer to me! Then there's the fact that, even at 60 mph, the typical car can easily stop in around 130-140 feet. If the cabbie had been paying attention and scanning ahead, he would no doubt have seen the Escort ahead of him, and wouldn't have needed to make such a last-minute reaction and lose control. Plus, Route 301 can get nasty, but at 5:00 in the morning it's not THAT congested yet!
I agree with you, the taxi driver was at fault. The Escort driver's fault depends on the breakdown. Maybe they could have coasted to the side but failed to do so. If not, then their options were to try and push it to the side (and risk getting killed by oncoming traffic), or quickly get to safety and call someone.
Living in the DC area, I heard about that wreck on the radio, and read about it in the Washington Post. The Escort driver abandoned the vehicle to go get help - it happens. Also, many of the roads around here are so congested that they've gotten rid of the shoulders - I'm willing to believe that could be the case with 301, in which case the Escort driver had no choice at all. This one has to be on the taxi driver's head.
like maybe 10 years or more (my memory's fuzzy on it now), they redesigned part of the Baltimore-Washington Parkway (295), making it look a lot prettier, with low stone walls instead of the old metal guardrails, curbs as the side of the road, etc.
However, there was one minor thing they goofed up in the process...shoulders! Nowadays if you're in the passing lane and break down, you have to drive up over the curb (it's angled, but you'll still feel a helluva bump when you hit it...I know from experience!), and go right on the grass. That is, if you're lucky enough to have enough of a level, grassy strip to stop the car on. In many cases, it starts to slope down right away, so you run the risk of going over an embankment.
If you break down in the right lane, there's just enough shoulder to pull your car onto, but unless you hop the curb, you're going to be swinging your door out into traffic.
They should've just left well-enough alone. Our tax dollars at work, I guess :-/ At least they repaved it though, so you don't get the thathump-thathump-thathump of the expansion joints that I remember so vividly from my childhood!
andre- I normally commute through that section in the 7 AM hour and usually traffic is snarled up to the Rt 301/5 split. I have traversed that stretch in non-rush hours and traffic does move fast through there. I agree that the taxicab driver was at fault. According to the reports the Escort did have its emergency flashers on so what was the taxidrivers excuse for not seeing it and having to serve into oncoming traffic? He'd still been better off swerving the right with traffic than into the oncoming traffic. And yes even plowing into the Escort would have been better. Nasty no doubt, but better.
I'm still trying to figure out how his car crossed the median strip. The median strip there is about 20 feet wide and rises up....what..... 5-6 feet? And there is curbing. Must have lauched his cab right at the dump truck... All I can say is it was guesome..........
Not sure whther I'd classify most LA freeway drivers as inconsiderate or not
True, there's a LOT of lane changing with no turn signal use into openings that are JUST wide enough to get in... but to be fair, it sometimes feels like there's no time to use the signals. When your opening comes you have to go NOW.
But I did have 5 days of fun DRIVING out there...LOL
The thing I found about LA drivers is that there's definitely more of a dog-eat-dog attitude. You can forget about courtesy. For example, trying to pull out of a convenience stores, gas stations, etc. onto the road, nobody, I mean nobody, wanted to let me in. Every single time. Even when traffic was stopped waiting for a light. Luckily I had a rental with pre-paid insurance, so I didn't worry to much about getting hit and bullied my way in. But I had to do that every single time. The whole place seems to drive like that. Maybe I would too if I had to deal with that traffic every day.
When I was 16, a buddy and I took a trip to LA to visit his family. He had just graduated, I was a year behind. We drove his dad's '84 Caprice Wagon, which was actually a sweet road trip car. Tons of room to stretch out and take a nap in the back. Once we got to LA, though, piloting that beast through LA traffic was challenging, to say the least. You quickly learn that when you signal to change lanes you're inviting other drivers to close the gap before you can make the lane change. So, I had to learn to prepare for the lane change by picking up enough speed, then force your way in using a combination of momentum and intimidation. And of course give the obligatory "one-blink" signal to avoid inciting road rage while not allowing other drivers to close the gap.
It seems to be a system that works in LALA land. Definitely a different style of driving for sure. We flew into San Diego and drove up to LA since it probably would take just as long to get to LAX and deal with all the congestion at that airport. A friend who lives in LA asked about our departing flights. I told him we'd just "pop on the 5 in the morning" and head out. He told me how NOBODY just pops on the 5, that the traffic would be horrible int he morning and how I should allow a lot of extra time. Just over 90 miles from our hotel to the airport in SD... we made it in 87 minutes. (LA residents seem to severly overestimate their traffic)
was the first time I got to experience getting flicked off by what I'm sure would otherwise be a nice, sweet little old lady, if you changed her habitat from the automobile to the livingroom, knitting a doily or something!
While from No CA, I drive a lot in the LA area. I'd like to make a case for signaling. Sure, you will get a very small % of those that will cut you off to be sure, but that is true for those that don't signal also. If you do not signal and are cut off, then it is hard to define if folks really did cut you off, eh?
In effect, I have/do not changed my signaling behavior while in LA. But folks DO let you in; ala, you have to be a tad more aggressive, but they do let you in. I was amazed once, when I had to cross 7 yes SEVEN lanes of traffic, (full rush hour: 3-6 pm, but hey every hour is rush hour?) (obviously driver error due to not knowing this particular location) I put on the signals and miraculously seven lanes of traffic parted for me to go extreme left to extreme right. It was almost like Moses parting the Red/Reed Sea.
I can vouch for the L.A. traffic, having lived in Anaheim in the late 70s and early 80s, then up in the high desert off I-15, in the early 90s. We had a full size Dodge van, and never had too many problems. We always alowed an extra 30 minutes, minumum, for travel, and Dad was/is a passive agressive driver. When people ask me about my particular driving style, usually from the passenger seat, I say, I learned to drive in So Cal.
I do not camp in the LL. I tend to stay 10 over, or less, mostly for fuel economy. I only speed up to pass, when the dorkwad speeds up, while being passed. I won't speed up just becuase you are behind me, however, I move back R as soon as safely possible. I always flash large vehicles and rigs, that they are clear of my bumper. If you hog my bumper I will take my time. I signal my intention, before I am clear, so you know, that I know, you are there, and want to go faster. I haven't had a honk or rude gesture, for the above actions, in many years. Depending on my closure rate, and yours, I sometimes let you go by first. I don't jerk out at the last second, to cut you off, that's just plain stupid on my part. I move out in a timely fashion, so you know what I am doing. Enough of that for now.
I had a guy, at 0600 this morning back out of his drive, ok, fine, then he proceeded to very slowly move to the right curb,(back out from the left). Not fine, not okay, no signal. It's posted 25, and was trash day, so I wasn't in a hurry. I chose not to honk, but would have been in my right to do so. It was still dark, and he could easily see my headlights. I bet he is an LLC.
Here's one for ya... During lunch, on my way back to work... We were on a 4 lane road (two lanes on each side). I was in the right lane, and the light has been green for a while. The left lane is backed up. As I enter the intersection, a lady on the cross street, decides to turn right on a red right in front of me. She decides she wants to turn into the left most lane. Since the left lane is backed up, she just sits in the intersection, blocking the right lane, (which happens to be a turn only lane up ahead, and is also empty). I have to slam on my brakes to keep from hitting her. There is nobody behind her. I still have the green, and the right turn signal ahead is also green. I honk. Then I motion her to back up. I honk again. She just ignores me.
People actually started getting out of their cars, and started pounding on the ladies window, to tell her to get out of the way. She proceeded to give them the finger. A part of me wished I just rammed her car.
If that intersection had a red light camera, it could have taken her picture, then the local authorities can send her a photo, and a subpeona to surrender her license, for a year. For being such an inconsiderate driver. Ya just got to know that she knew what she was doing and she did it on purpose.
In my area, there is an intersection, of an off ramp from Rt. 30 West, and Harrisburg pike. The morons will sit 3 or 4 cars deep, out into the intersection, just to get into the turning lane, to turn left, onto 30 East. Like I just said, you know they know what they are doing, and they are doing it on purpose. And for what, a few precious seconds off their commute?
Where is one of those sneaky law enforcement types when you need one? I'm glad I only have a 20 minute commute.
When I lived in LA in the mid 90's, I actually liked how people drove there. They may be aggressive, (at least to Pacific NW standards), but I think for the most part, they are more curteous than the average PacNW driver.
For example:
Since there are no left turn signals in much of LA county, there is a sort of gentlemen's agreement, that you allow 3 cars to run the red light to make a left turn, because everyone knows if you didn't, you'd be sitting there all day to make that turn. Since there aren't very many left turn signals in LA county, most of the people are good at making them from experience. In portland however, people tend to snooze at the signal, and when the light turns green, they have delayed reaction, so when they finally enter the left turn, the light turns red again, ticking off everyone behind. Meanwhile, everyone in the other direction jumps on the green to be ahead of the guy next to them, so you have to wait another cycle to make your left turn.
I've also found LA drivers to merge much better than the typical PacificNW driver. Especially zipper merges. Only in Portland have I seen drivers actually come to a complete stop on a freeway merge/onramp, because they didn't know how to properly merge onto the freeway, or see people actually straddle two lanes, to prevent people from merging ahead correctly, or to prevent people from getting ahead of them because the lane ends like a mile or more ahead.
As for signalling lane changes, though, (at least in my experience), it's a bit tricky. If you signal your intention, becuase you already checked for space, and you switch over normally, all is well. If there is somewhat a reasonable space for you, and you accelerate to match speed with the car ahead, and move over, (with or without signalling),and you maintain pace or better, all is still well, and the guy behind will be curteous and give you an opening/cushion.
If you slow down, and start to hold up traffic with your blinker on, when nobody is in front of you, and you are not aggressive enough to jump on in, nobody will want you in front of them, and nobody will let you in. People usually give you a 5 second window. When your blinker comes on, they give you space, but only for 5 seconds. If you don't take it, the gap will close forever, and you have to wait for the guy behind him, to give you another 5 second window of opportunity.
In portland, usually when you signal for a lane change, the guy in the next lane will floor it, to take up any space there was, so you can't change. Either that, or they will drop about 20mph off their speed to give you PLENTY of room to change, and unknowingly cause a snarl behind them.
I also noticed that no matter the hill, (and there are some steep ones ones in LA), people will almost always maintain speed, or even speed up going up the hill... Not so in Portland. People will snooze, and as they ascend the hill, more and more speed gets scrubbed off, until they are going about 30 under the limit at the crest of the hill, then as they crest the hill, they go back to their normal speed. This happens ALL THE TIME on the 26 freeway in portland. This backs up traffic for miles.
The one bad thing about LA drivers though, is they tend to be really bad with rain. I remember my room-mate used his wipers so rarely, that when he needed to use them, they didn't even work. They just dirtied his windows even more. And when it rains, and there is like a 1mm puddle of water on the freeway, people tend to slow way the heck down, to prevent "hydroplaning"...
Though it's getting worse in Portland. 10 years ago, people would cruise right through the puddles without incident. These days people are slamming on brakes, and losing control of their cars. Must be the influx of people from SoCal (Same applies to deteriorating snow driving abilities)
To test tailgaters during a trip of about 11 hours from Indianapolis, Ind., I drove about 85 mph in the left lane consistently. The posted limit was 65 mph. Logic would indicate that fast drivers would be satisfied driving behind me at 20 mph over the speed limit.
They weren't. There was almost always someone behind me urging me to drive in the slow lane. At several points, the tailgater actually swerved to the right, passed on the right and blew the horn accusingly as he/she passed. To pass as he did, he must have exceeded 90 mph.
No matter what passing theory your readers propose, the fact is there will always be a "Genghis Khan" behind you who has to show off his steed, or a Roman Centurion who's installed knife blades on his chariot wheels to cut you off.
My suggestion is to drive as you wish, turn the rear view mirror up so you can't see the tailgater and enjoy yourself.
That is not what the law sez: Keep Right Except to Pass. or Slow Traffic Keep Right. The left lane is the PASSING LANE. As you noted not all folks follow that, so in those cases, it is prudent to pass on the ("other") left.
yesterday Grbeck and I were at the classic car show in Hershey, PA, and got to see, first-hand, just how inconsiderate some of these classic car owners can be to each other! Right around 3:00, a lot of the people start to pull out, and the parking lot jams up. Well, as the various rows would converge into one, for the most part, people would take turns. However, we noticed that really old men driving really old cars tended to be the rudest. Once they got out into line, they wouldn't let anybody else out in front of them. Sometimes, to keep someone from getting out, they'd ride up so close behind the car in front of them, it's a miracle that nobody got rear-ended with those sloppy brakes! And a few times, they'd be so intent on moving up to keep someone from getting out in front of them, that they came close clipping the show spectators walking through the row of cars.
Well, we were standing along the curb, taking pictures of the cars going by. Got to watch as this one old relic in a John-boy Walton-looking Model A pulled up so close behind the car in front, that this older couple in a '63 Galaxie couldn't get out. Then, a few minutes later, when the line started to move again, this guy: pulled up right on that Model A's butt, to block them from getting out as well!
At this point I made a comment about it. Evidently loud enough to hear. Some old guy that worked at the show went up like he was going to direct traffic and let that Galaxie out, but then he just backed off, as if he was joking. The old fossil behind the wheel of the Buick shouted about how he was already in the line for an hour, and was running hot, and was going to start overheating soon if he didn't get moving. Nevermind the fact that the line would move a few feet then stop, a few more feet and then stop, then maybe once in a blue moon move 40 feet, then stop for a few more minutes.
I made a comment about how if I had a car that I knew overheated when stuck in traffic (and I know this from experience, because my '67 Catalina will do it), that I would've waited until enough traffic cleared out so I wouldn't have to wait so long in line.
Well, he heard me. He hollered back "Well what would you do if you had to go to the bathroom?!". I couldn't think of anything witty to say off the top of my head, so I just say "Then I would GO!" Hell, there were plenty of porta-johns around, so he should've gone before he went to leave. And it's not like letting one car out in front of him would really make him get out on the open road that much faster.
Well, he must've thought about it, because he did let that sweet looking couple in the '63 Galaxie out!
And a few minutes later, a nice comeback did occur to me. I should've shouted back to his bathroom comment "Well if I were your age, I would've worn an adult diaper!" On second though, maybe it's a good thing I didn't! ;-)
On some days I'd be upset at following you at 85mph too. I'm never angry at that speed... it takes a pretty low speed for me to get angry, but after some waiting I'd flash you, wait some more, then pass on your right. Sorry.
"No matter what passing theory your readers propose, the fact is there will always be a "Genghis Khan" behind you who has to show off his steed, or a Roman Centurion who's installed knife blades on his chariot wheels to cut you off."
It's a domination thing. No matter how fast you're going int he left lane they always want something faster.
Note that most of these never pull into the right or middle lane between passes in the left lane -- but they want to tell everyone else to get into those other lanes between passes.LOL
But I don't care about dominating any lane. I just don't want to break my speed. You can stay in the left lane all you want. Just don't be stoopid about it when there are breaks in the trafic and speed up to keep me from passing. I couldn't care less about your situation in your car, I'm just minding my own speeding business. I don't need any volunteer police to keep me from getting a ticket. Don't worry, I can afford it.
...great photo! I can't believe another Hershey show is finished.
To be fair, you should tell everyone of the good deed you did for the couple in the spotless 1953 Chrysler Windsor Deluxe Newport who almost ruined their car's vintage wire wheels on the curb. (Could you post that one under a "Considerate Bystanders" thread?)
A serious question: When the right lane or middle lane or next to the fastest lane) is open while you are speeding, do you move over into it and then move back to the left lane to pass? Or do you stay in the left lane except when an LLC is there and you must pass on the right?
Comments
If I note a driver coming up from behind, usually on a 3 lane interstate, and moving over to the middle lane where there are openings and moving back to the left, 3rd, lane to pass, then I see a good driver who is going fast.
If I see a BMW or Suburban size vehicle coming up in the left lane, never moving over where middle lane is open, and running up on people in the left lane to 'make' them move over, I see a left lane dominator.
The safe driver has me move over when practical or speed up slightly until practical. The dominator can pass on the right.
Oh I'm usually going 5-7 over the limit. Sometimes 10 over. Not exactly poking in the left lane especially when the traffic is moderate to high.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
If I am the one being over taken (in the left lane), as soon as the GIB (guy in back) is within legal range to a long ways back, I begin to signal to move right. It is deceptively simple really!! (Keep right except to pass: slower traffic keep right!!?? I am sure most of the LLC er crowd have NEVER SEEN THESE SIGNS, nor remember it from the vehicle codes) . We are just hearing the myriad of excuses to justify the "UP YOURS" I am in front of YOU mentality.
Politicians and lawmakers have been doing this for literally decades. It is really a lot of the reason we have the problems that we do. So to the extent that we want to minimize failure, the fulfillment of this pipe dream has been a woefully dismal failure.
I don't know where you are, but all my property taxes have done is GO up!! It goes up in Good times, bad times, normal times, catastrophic times! OH GEE! Seems to be a trend here!!??
This is the type of mentality of many left lane dominators: "It is MY lane. Get out of MY way. Safe driving be darned."
Here it's being "projected" in the psychological sense onto the thinking of the person using the left lane.
"...remember it from the vehicle codes."
Odd that someone forgets the vehicle code about safe driving, speed limits, and tailgating and wants to remind others about vehicle codes.
This aggressiveness is exactly the characteristic I talked about in an earlier post. The safe, good driver remembers the stay right code and moves in and out of the middle lane himself/herself. The aggressive driver is "get-outta-my-way"!
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Just wondering if there is a specific thing about BMWs indicated.
In this area of the midwest BMWs were some of the earlier cars to have aggressive driving traits on the part of some drivers. They seemed to show up behind people flashing their brights to hurry up and get out of their lane.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
In Europe flashing brights had been a ticketable offense, but then again so is leftlane camping.
I think the limit was that you couldn't put your high beams on within 500 feet of oncoming traffic, or within 300 feet of the car in front of you.
Then I found later that some cars had put this on the turn signal for easy flash-your-brights.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Darn nice of him!
Cheers!
Paul
How do you let people know your intentions without using cues like lights etc? If I am coming up on a tractor-trailer which has a signal on, I flash my lights to let them know it is ok to move over; usually I get a "thank you" on/off of the taillights once they are fully over.
A different situation that I deal with, (one that reading these forums has caused me to look at from different perspectives) occurs on multi-lane highways, low traffic, higher speeds:
Right lane occupied with the slower moving traffic, I am doing most of my driving in the middle lane, going out to the left to pass, moving back to the middle once pass is completed.
What do you do in the following scenario:
Passing, and a bit ahead is a car travelling slower than you are in the left lane. Do you flash that person, while you are still some distance back, to let them know that you are there, and planning to pass? Do you just sit behind them (some distance back), wait for them to notice you and move over? Do you pull back in to the middle lane and pass with no indication?
I am not a big fan of passing on the right, and am never absolutely sure that the person ahead is using the mirror; if I am going to pass on the right I would usually flash from some distance back, signal the lane change if they did not signal that they were moving over, then pass, reasonably sure that the person knew I was there.
Thoughts?
I will give the driver in front the benefit of the doubt if he is passing traffic on the right or he is held up by traffic in front of him. Once he's clear, I will first wait 10 seconds before flashing or "blinking" (turn the headlights off then on, usually done at night). I will wait 10 more seconds before signalling my right turn light and passing him on the right. Note that I will not do this unless I am reasonably sure that there is a 30-second window in the break of traffic on the right lane.
Of course, the most annoying drivers to me are the ones that pull around to get right in front of me, then end up going slower than what I was originally going when in the clear and refusing to move right, forcing me to repeat the above procedure. Maybe I'm much too nice...
I think one should lower ones expectations that you will be at or close to 100% correct in your (move over, not move over; I move let, him move) assessments.
When someone moves right for the over taking car to pass, I do make it a point to thank folks that do this by waving. Despite the tendency to think that this is "road competition", we do SHARE the road with folks. I do sense that the last couple of posters like to pass as fast as safe and as possible and not be a burden to the folks who just did the friendly and correct thing.
One thing I REALLY hate is when I get over to let a faster car pass, and he slows down and ends up pacing me! And then we come up on a slower car, and I either have to slow down and get behind him, punch it and blow past him and get back in front of him, or get boxed in.
A subset of that, though, is the slower car that takes F-O-R-E-V-E-R to pass a car in the right lane, but then as soon as he gets over for you, he punches it and gets up to like 80 mph. Why couldn't he have just done 80 mph in the fast lane to begin with, instead of wasting your time?!
I will admit to doing my fair share of speeding (often to keep up with traffic) but not through construction zones, hazardous areas, or where I know there to be heavy enforcement. So often I am looking ahead to find openings in traffic, but also keeping a sharp eye on my mirrors to be aware of those to whom no speed limit would be high enough.
I drive a big, fairly quick car these days, but there are still many people who scare me with their maniacal or absentminded driving styles out there.
Thanks for reminding me of the courtesy lights with the truckers, I haven't seen/done that in years. It's something I followed a decade back when I started driving interstates regularly on my own, but in recent years the practice has slipped my mind as I haven't seen it used as often.
The Crown Vic veered to the left, across the median into the southbound lanes, and hit a dump truck head on. The dump truck then lost control, cut across the median itself into the northbound lanes, and whacked an '80's Regal, an '80's Monte Carlo, and a roach coach.
The resulting pileup caught fire, and at least 3 people died.
Now I actually got into an argument with a co-worker over this one. She says they should throw the book as the Escort owner for leaving the car on the road. However, I disagreed, saying that you should focus more on the cab driver. Forget for a moment that he swerved to avoid an Escort. It could have been anything in the road. A cat, a dog, a pedestrian, a fallen tree. A huge piece of junk that fell off of a truck. A wing chunk from a passing 747. A crater left by a sinkhole. Anything.
The simple fact, in my mind, is that the cabbie chose to swerve into oncoming traffic, and a head-on collision is the most severe type you can have, as it gets compounded by the momentum of the other car.
Besides, if you have a choice between hitting an Escort or hitting a dump truck...well, it seems like a no brainer to me! Then there's the fact that, even at 60 mph, the typical car can easily stop in around 130-140 feet. If the cabbie had been paying attention and scanning ahead, he would no doubt have seen the Escort ahead of him, and wouldn't have needed to make such a last-minute reaction and lose control. Plus, Route 301 can get nasty, but at 5:00 in the morning it's not THAT congested yet!
Opinions?
Suppose his trannie locked up and he ground to a quick stop.
Driver behind has responsiblity to be prepared to stop and to maintain an assured clear distance.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
However, there was one minor thing they goofed up in the process...shoulders! Nowadays if you're in the passing lane and break down, you have to drive up over the curb (it's angled, but you'll still feel a helluva bump when you hit it...I know from experience!), and go right on the grass. That is, if you're lucky enough to have enough of a level, grassy strip to stop the car on. In many cases, it starts to slope down right away, so you run the risk of going over an embankment.
If you break down in the right lane, there's just enough shoulder to pull your car onto, but unless you hop the curb, you're going to be swinging your door out into traffic.
They should've just left well-enough alone. Our tax dollars at work, I guess :-/ At least they repaved it though, so you don't get the thathump-thathump-thathump of the expansion joints that I remember so vividly from my childhood!
I'm still trying to figure out how his car crossed the median strip. The median strip there is about 20 feet wide and rises up....what..... 5-6 feet? And there is curbing. Must have lauched his cab right at the dump truck... All I can say is it was guesome..........
I've noticed that many of the roads in the D.C-Baltimore area have little or no shoulders. It's not very comforting.
True, there's a LOT of lane changing with no turn signal use into openings that are JUST wide enough to get in... but to be fair, it sometimes feels like there's no time to use the signals. When your opening comes you have to go NOW.
But I did have 5 days of fun DRIVING out there...LOL
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So, I had to learn to prepare for the lane change by picking up enough speed, then force your way in using a combination of momentum and intimidation. And of course give the obligatory "one-blink" signal to avoid inciting road rage while not allowing other drivers to close the gap.
Needless to say, I loved it ;-)
-Jason
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In effect, I have/do not changed my signaling behavior while in LA. But folks DO let you in; ala, you have to be a tad more aggressive, but they do let you in. I was amazed once, when I had to cross 7 yes SEVEN lanes of traffic, (full rush hour: 3-6 pm, but hey every hour is rush hour?) (obviously driver error due to not knowing this particular location) I put on the signals and miraculously seven lanes of traffic parted for me to go extreme left to extreme right. It was almost like Moses parting the Red/Reed Sea.
I do not camp in the LL. I tend to stay 10 over, or less, mostly for fuel economy. I only speed up to pass, when the dorkwad speeds up, while being passed. I won't speed up just becuase you are behind me, however, I move back R as soon as safely possible. I always flash large vehicles and rigs, that they are clear of my bumper. If you hog my bumper I will take my time. I signal my intention, before I am clear, so you know, that I know, you are there, and want to go faster. I haven't had a honk or rude gesture, for the above actions, in many years. Depending on my closure rate, and yours, I sometimes let you go by first. I don't jerk out at the last second, to cut you off, that's just plain stupid on my part. I move out in a timely fashion, so you know what I am doing. Enough of that for now.
I had a guy, at 0600 this morning back out of his drive, ok, fine, then he proceeded to very slowly move to the right curb,(back out from the left). Not fine, not okay, no signal. It's posted 25, and was trash day, so I wasn't in a hurry. I chose not to honk, but would have been in my right to do so. It was still dark, and he could easily see my headlights. I bet he is an LLC.
People actually started getting out of their cars, and started pounding on the ladies window, to tell her to get out of the way. She proceeded to give them the finger. A part of me wished I just rammed her car.
In my area, there is an intersection, of an off ramp from Rt. 30 West, and Harrisburg pike. The morons will sit 3 or 4 cars deep, out into the intersection, just to get into the turning lane, to turn left, onto 30 East. Like I just said, you know they know what they are doing, and they are doing it on purpose. And for what, a few precious seconds off their commute?
Where is one of those sneaky law enforcement types when you need one? I'm glad I only have a 20 minute commute.
Hmmmm, ramming, sounds like a smashing good idea.
For example:
Since there are no left turn signals in much of LA county, there is a sort of gentlemen's agreement, that you allow 3 cars to run the red light to make a left turn, because everyone knows if you didn't, you'd be sitting there all day to make that turn. Since there aren't very many left turn signals in LA county, most of the people are good at making them from experience. In portland however, people tend to snooze at the signal, and when the light turns green, they have delayed reaction, so when they finally enter the left turn, the light turns red again, ticking off everyone behind. Meanwhile, everyone in the other direction jumps on the green to be ahead of the guy next to them, so you have to wait another cycle to make your left turn.
I've also found LA drivers to merge much better than the typical PacificNW driver. Especially zipper merges. Only in Portland have I seen drivers actually come to a complete stop on a freeway merge/onramp, because they didn't know how to properly merge onto the freeway, or see people actually straddle two lanes, to prevent people from merging ahead correctly, or to prevent people from getting ahead of them because the lane ends like a mile or more ahead.
As for signalling lane changes, though, (at least in my experience), it's a bit tricky. If you signal your intention, becuase you already checked for space, and you switch over normally, all is well. If there is somewhat a reasonable space for you, and you accelerate to match speed with the car ahead, and move over, (with or without signalling),and you maintain pace or better, all is still well, and the guy behind will be curteous and give you an opening/cushion.
If you slow down, and start to hold up traffic with your blinker on, when nobody is in front of you, and you are not aggressive enough to jump on in, nobody will want you in front of them, and nobody will let you in. People usually give you a 5 second window. When your blinker comes on, they give you space, but only for 5 seconds. If you don't take it, the gap will close forever, and you have to wait for the guy behind him, to give you another 5 second window of opportunity.
In portland, usually when you signal for a lane change, the guy in the next lane will floor it, to take up any space there was, so you can't change. Either that, or they will drop about 20mph off their speed to give you PLENTY of room to change, and unknowingly cause a snarl behind them.
I also noticed that no matter the hill, (and there are some steep ones ones in LA), people will almost always maintain speed, or even speed up going up the hill... Not so in Portland. People will snooze, and as they ascend the hill, more and more speed gets scrubbed off, until they are going about 30 under the limit at the crest of the hill, then as they crest the hill, they go back to their normal speed. This happens ALL THE TIME on the 26 freeway in portland. This backs up traffic for miles.
The one bad thing about LA drivers though, is they tend to be really bad with rain. I remember my room-mate used his wipers so rarely, that when he needed to use them, they didn't even work. They just dirtied his windows even more. And when it rains, and there is like a 1mm puddle of water on the freeway, people tend to slow way the heck down, to prevent "hydroplaning"...
Though it's getting worse in Portland. 10 years ago, people would cruise right through the puddles without incident. These days people are slamming on brakes, and losing control of their cars. Must be the influx of people from SoCal
http://www.twincities.com/mld/pioneerpress/news/opinion/9872148.h- tm
Going faster
To test tailgaters during a trip of about 11 hours from Indianapolis, Ind., I drove about 85 mph in the left lane consistently. The posted limit was 65 mph. Logic would indicate that fast drivers would be satisfied driving behind me at 20 mph over the speed limit.
They weren't. There was almost always someone behind me urging me to drive in the slow lane. At several points, the tailgater actually swerved to the right, passed on the right and blew the horn accusingly as he/she passed. To pass as he did, he must have exceeded 90 mph.
No matter what passing theory your readers propose, the fact is there will always be a "Genghis Khan" behind you who has to show off his steed, or a Roman Centurion who's installed knife blades on his chariot wheels to cut you off.
My suggestion is to drive as you wish, turn the rear view mirror up so you can't see the tailgater and enjoy yourself.
ROBERT C. SNYDER
Hudson, Wis.
Well, we were standing along the curb, taking pictures of the cars going by. Got to watch as this one old relic in a John-boy Walton-looking Model A pulled up so close behind the car in front, that this older couple in a '63 Galaxie couldn't get out. Then, a few minutes later, when the line started to move again, this guy:
pulled up right on that Model A's butt, to block them from getting out as well!
At this point I made a comment about it. Evidently loud enough to hear. Some old guy that worked at the show went up like he was going to direct traffic and let that Galaxie out, but then he just backed off, as if he was joking. The old fossil behind the wheel of the Buick shouted about how he was already in the line for an hour, and was running hot, and was going to start overheating soon if he didn't get moving. Nevermind the fact that the line would move a few feet then stop, a few more feet and then stop, then maybe once in a blue moon move 40 feet, then stop for a few more minutes.
I made a comment about how if I had a car that I knew overheated when stuck in traffic (and I know this from experience, because my '67 Catalina will do it), that I would've waited until enough traffic cleared out so I wouldn't have to wait so long in line.
Well, he heard me. He hollered back "Well what would you do if you had to go to the bathroom?!". I couldn't think of anything witty to say off the top of my head, so I just say "Then I would GO!" Hell, there were plenty of porta-johns around, so he should've gone before he went to leave. And it's not like letting one car out in front of him would really make him get out on the open road that much faster.
Well, he must've thought about it, because he did let that sweet looking couple in the '63 Galaxie out!
And a few minutes later, a nice comeback did occur to me. I should've shouted back to his bathroom comment "Well if I were your age, I would've worn an adult diaper!" On second though, maybe it's a good thing I didn't! ;-)
It's a domination thing. No matter how fast you're going int he left lane they always want something faster.
Note that most of these never pull into the right or middle lane between passes in the left lane -- but they want to tell everyone else to get into those other lanes between passes.LOL
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I think those who don't go the speed of the traffic flow in any lane are as into dominating as the racer types.
To be fair, you should tell everyone of the good deed you did for the couple in the spotless 1953 Chrysler Windsor Deluxe Newport who almost ruined their car's vintage wire wheels on the curb. (Could you post that one under a "Considerate Bystanders" thread?)
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,