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Honda Odyssey vs Dodge/Chrysler minivans
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I have always wondered why these topics "vehicle A vs. vehicle B" frequently degenerate to my vehicle is better, because your vehicle sucks types of arguments.
Maybe we should all just say, "the Honda and DC vans are both very nice vehicles", and then we can end this discussion - close it down, no need to discuss anything else cuz they are both great. Flip a coin.
Most of the banter here is good natured ribbing. Sure there is some testosterone sprinkled in from time to time, but I don't think anyone takes it to heart. As for comparisons of the vans, I'm all for it. Lets just make sure were comparing vehicles and offering opinions based on our experiences, not based on what we've read in other chat rooms or publications. As I've said before, I've driven most every 2002 minivan out there (save for VW). My comments are based on my experiences not on my perceptions and prejudices.
Steve
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Guilty as charged ;-)
Honda Odyssey vs Dodge/Chrysler minivans
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure with a name like this it is going to be controversial. Thats like inviting a hundred people to the swimming pool on a hundred degree day and tell them they can't get in the water.
EITHER DO AWAY WITH THE SUBJECT OR LEAVE US ALONE AS LONE AS IT DON'T GET DIRTY.
Steve
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(Not having a TV or little kids, it took me a few minutes to google what the heck you were talking about ).
Tickety says it's time to get back to the Honda and DC minivans.
Steve
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All of that work done on a van with 70K on it, and some DC owners want me to believe that DC vans are superior to the Odyssey. I'll admit there WAS some trans problems with the Odyssey but no one has ever posted a list like that about a Odyssey. I'll still consider a DC van if we were to purchase another van in a few years, but not if I start seeing posts like this on the current ones. I'm sure there are a lot of Odysseys with that many miles without those kinds of troubles. Either he drives his vans into the ground or there is still problems in River City.
Actually that seems about right for a 1996 Chrysler minivan. The first production year for the last generation of Chrysler vans was terrible. I have a friend who went through two transmissions on his 1996 Grand Caravan ES before the thing finally started acting right. Another friend had his original equipment battery explode in the garage while attempting to turn on his 1996 Grand Caravan LE. The friend with the ES no longer drives a minivan but the friend with the LE with over 150k miles on it still uses their van to go to the snow during winter. Bottom line, it was the first production year of a car that already had questionable reliability. What would you expect?
dmathews, I can't believe you would actually use a story of an owner of a 1996 model DC van as solid proof to challenge DCs current reliability. We all know Chrysler quality back then wasn't what it is now. They have improved. Just like hersbird (I think) said, there are Odyssey owners here who use problems on 5-15 year old Chrysler vans as reasons to bash current reliability and quality. That just doesn't make sense and it isn't fair. Maybe ill go back to 1997 and dig up some dirt on the unpopular Odyssey of the day and then use it as a reason not to buy a new 2002 model. Does that make sense?
-Adam
On the other hand my '92 Toyota Tercel needed many of those same repairs by 70k miles. I replaced starter (actually only replaced contacts in solenoid because I am a cheap home repair guy but most people would have replaced starter), timing belt, water pump, struts, muffler, and oxygen sensor. My Toyota doesn't have the other items that he replaced (automatic transmission, sliding door, power steering, or A/C) so I can't say how those have held up. Does this mean my Tercel is a piece of crap? Hardly. Things just have to be maintained over the years. The water pump did not go bad, I just replaced it when I was replacing the timing belt. The timing belt also was not bad but I replaced it as scheduled to avoid engine destruction if it failed (interference engine).
It would be nice to compare apples to apples or maybe oranges at the worst. Lets try to leave bananas out of the picture.
Adam, I'm glad you admit the earlier DC's were not put together too well. Time will tell with the new ones though. I think it's a little early to site huge advances in quality and reliability - we'll see, you may be right. As for the 1999 model year, all I know is I wouldn't want to take one in the chops with it.
Looks like your Toyota needed mostly routine maintenance items. Not quite the same as the guy who needed a new tranny (twice), AC and drive shaft seize. Probably not indicative of all DCs but not a car I would be proud to own. Talk about a banana comparison.
I didn't say that. I said I would again consider a DC van as long as their CURRENT vans didn't end up with the reliability of those previous ones.
I can tell you because I drive a 2000 Town & Country with over 43k miles and haven't had a single problem yet. Ok, well, I'll be honest. We did have to replace the breaks a little early at 36k miles but I think my driving is to blame. Good thing the new DC vans have bigger disc breaks on all four wheels!
Also, we had a 1998 Grand Caravan SE that had 70k miles of trouble free driving. And we drove that car into the ground too. It was used multiple times each day by different drivers and had the mileage of a vehicle almost twice it's age when we turned it in. I'm sure whoever is driving it now is enjoying a good looking, safe, and reliable DC minivan.
Yes, Chrysler reliability has improved significantly since your 1996 model Grand Caravan ES. Look at Consumer Reports and all the others if you don't believe me. But I would understand if you never wanted to get behind the wheel of another Chrysler vehicle. Ever.
-Adam
-Adam
Magic Seat, most space luggage, most power, almost best gas mileage reason got Odyssey. Chrysler and Odyssey both good minivan.
Guess I better ask him how it's running :-)
Steve
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Don't get me wrong. the DC vans are very nice but they have to improve their reliability. Look at the Windstar. Great van but horrible reputation.
As for sales, Dodge Caravan sales were up for the month of May.
Ford, Toyota (and even Honda) reputation worse in last few years. Ford 3.8L V6 head gasket problem and many Explorer problem. Toyota sludge problem 3.0L V6. Honda not many problem but 1999 Odyssey reputation not good as other Honda.
No problem yet my 2001 Odyssey.
Steve
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Steve
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The Quest is doing fine and that's the one I might consider reliable - assuming it keeps going like it's going; nary a problem worth writing home about yet. It rolled over 68,000 miles today, so I've got another year or so to go before crowning it "reliable". Sorry for the confusing sentence structure above :-).
Steve
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When I was young and broke and first started doing my own repair work I lost the clutch on a little truck that I drove. I replaced the clutch but I did not go to the effort or expense of getting the flywheel ground. Needless to say, I eventually learned that you need to sweat the details on repairs like that or you will be doing it again a lot sooner than you would like.
I guess that what I am saying is that if something fails and the repair does not last at least as long as the original then their is good reason to believe that either lower quality parts were used or the repair did not fully restore the vehicle to its original condition as it should have. Unfortunately, repeated failures are not good for us owners but they are a wonderful thing for mechanics (as long as they make it past the garage warranty).
Steve
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Then I owned a Ranger. It needed occasional work, mostly under warranty, rarely inconvenienced me, so I felt it was reliable.
I now own a Camry. I've put 150,000 miles on it. It needed front brake pads once. I have changed the fluids, replaced the belts, and had a timing belt installed. I could use struts now. THAT IS RELIABLE! (But boring.) Now my other cars were not reliable in my mind. Some folks define reliable as usually getting them where they are going. Needing water pumps, or alternators, or starters are considered "expected". Anything short of a blown engine or tranny and they are happy. Personally, I would not like to return to the world of changing alternators, water pumps, head gaskets, or heads every few years.
It's all a matter of perspective really.
BTW I drive a 99 Odyssey that has 60 K miles on it and would recommend them based solely on my experience.
L.O.L.
We have a 2000 Town & Country LX with 44k miles and no problmes. We bought the Town & Country over the Odyssey mainly because of apperance, features and price. We have been very happy with our current van and are now looking to replace it with a new 2002 Town & Country LXi.
Adam,
I hate to nit pick, but since when does initial build quality=reliability. I know you must be thinking, "look at these plush surroundings" when you sit in your T&C but that in no way equates to reliability. At 40K miles, your van should be reliable. I wonder how it would fare at 60k, or even 90k miles. I love it when people claim, "I've always owned XXX cars and never had a problem." Then you find out they lease or trade them in every 2-3 years.
There, I feel better now.