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Honda Odyssey vs Dodge/Chrysler minivans

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Comments

  • pluto5pluto5 Member Posts: 618
    You can ask but the buckles are integral with the belts.
  • lucyvp49lucyvp49 Member Posts: 14
    does anyone have any information about this group? I can find nothing about them other than the website listed by pluto5. Any additional information would be appreciated. I find no mention of this seatbelt concern on the NHSTA web site.
  • pluto5pluto5 Member Posts: 618
    The Center for Auto Safety is headed by Clarence Ditlow who I belive is a former NHTSA director.


    Here's another link that might interest:


    http://www.unsafebelts.com/safety.shtml

  • gotribegotribe Member Posts: 101
    An important point about the pricing issue isnt just what you pay for the van, but what its worth when you sell it. Take a look at Edmunds Total Cost To Own and I bet you'll see far better resale for the Odyssey than for Chrysler minivans. And there's a reason for that. At the end of four years or so, an Odyssey will generally be in better shape all else being equal (maintenance, mileage,...)
  • pluto5pluto5 Member Posts: 618
    You are correct. My DC van is supposed to be worth $4K in a private sale but I would probably be lucky to get $3K. I will keep it for a work van. Also, if you have teenage drivers you can drop the collision and put them on it with your insurance co. to save premium.

    If you are buying for resale this is a no-brainer. But if you keep cars for 10 years or so it doesn't really matter cause depreciation is a non-cash expense. Ever get a bill for depreciation?
  • delcomdelcom Member Posts: 5
    Im not a fan of either the Honda or the unreliable town and country. The Olds Silhouette is the Cadillac of minivans. Quiet, comfy, handsome looks and you can get one hell of a deal on one of these things right now.
  • gotribegotribe Member Posts: 101
    You're right, if you keep a vehicle 10 years or so, depreciation becomes pretty irrelevant. But in terms of "ever get a bill for depreciation?" I would beg to disagree. Since most people dont keep their cars for 10 years, they get a bill for depreciation each time they make their lease payment!! Or, if they're borrowing on a car loan, and then trading in a few years, they are of course paying for depreciation.
  • orangelebaronorangelebaron Member Posts: 435
    "Cadillac of minivans" ?
    Isn't that a line from Get Shorty?
    Also, wasn't the crash test dummy's foot snapped off in the IIHS 40mph crash test of a late model GM minivan?
    A friend has a lease on a T&C and at three years.. it's starting to get annoying minor problems.
    Another friend has a 3 year old Odyessey with no problems. The Honda is not as stylish or luxurious, but I would bet that in the long run, it will cost less to own. I've owned enough Chryslers to know that they start wearing out well before 100K. They aren't terrible cars... they just aren't made as durable as some other cars.
  • mliongmliong Member Posts: 231
    Wasn't that the minivan that had a horrid crash test rating in the IIHS offset crash test?

    Getting back to the Ody or DC question, I seem to notice that many DC owners have to have their trannys changed out at the 40K mile mark. All four friends of mine with DCs have had that problem - though it is not a statistically representative sample by any means, it still paints a bad picture in my mind.

    Although the Odysseys now have a known history for potential tranny problems, I beleive that the figure is still way below industry averages, and certainly below the DC's track record.

    When choosing between minivans, I always recommend shopping around. Nobody should have to pay thousands over MSRP - especially for an Odyssey! Didn't like a particular car dealership? Shop another!

    Test drive both cars, and sit in them for a long time with the kids to see if it is the good fit for you.

    As an Ody owner, I can certainly say, this minivan can stand to improve upon their reliability. I've had three minor issues with the sliding doors to date, and that's a bit much for a two year old minivan.

    Would I trade it for a DC if I had to do it all over again? No. I'd take my chances with the 2% tranny failure rate over DC's track record. The third seat is a life-saver for my family, and the fit and finish is far superior to that of DC - IMHO.

    No matter what you get, JUST DON'T GET THE SILHOUETTE/VENTURE minivans! The potential safety issues are just too big to ignore, IMHO.
  • xafxaf Member Posts: 37
    "As an Ody owner, I can certainly say, this minivan can stand to improve upon their reliability. I've had three minor issues with the sliding doors to date, and that's a bit much for a two year old minivan."

    WOW and you still stick with the Oddy. With all the improvements the DC has been doing, one can only wonder at your attitude. So you paid extra to get a van with unreliable doors, a potential transmission problem. I bet you hope to recover some of the overpayment when you sell the Oddy.

    Good luck

    PS I saw in the CR magazine that the reliability figure on the Oddy is now 2% to 5%, not the 2% that you quoted. I guess the Oddy is just turning into another mediocre minivan.
  • maple49maple49 Member Posts: 66
    I disagree with most of your comments. There are no wide spread reliability issues with the Odyssey (regardless of the noise some people here try to make, the tranny issue is only thought to effect less than 2% of the vehicles from 1999-2001 and Honda is addressing this by extending warranties for most of the vehicles that may be impacted). Doubt the Impala will prove to have stellar reliability. I haven't seen anything indicating poor 3rd row seat safety on the Odyssey. Only reports I have seen are for those vehicles (mostly SUVs) that have the third seat headrest a few inches from the rear gate. The Odyssey is one of the safest vehicles made, in any class. If you wouldn't use the third seat (since you bought a sedan) why does it even matter? Don't know about the seat belts so I can't comment. Regarding "stigma", I agree minivans are not the "coolest" cars out there but I don't think they are giving anything up to an Impala.

    A sedan is not an option for the vast majority of minivan buyers. A sedan does not provide seating for seven (or more), has a fraction of the cargo room, does not allow one to pass between rows while inside the vehicle, sedans lack sliding doors making getting kids in/out of car seats more difficult and finally they are not as safe as the safest minivans. This is a minivan discussion, not a why a sedan meets my needs better discussion.
  • mliongmliong Member Posts: 231
    You may want to check your servers. It seems that a virus crept into this newsgroup! :O
  • maple49maple49 Member Posts: 66
    I think it is fair to say that the Odyssey is not as reliable as the Accord or Civic. However, that does not mean it has widespread reliability problems. Conversations on internet forums are not the same as statistical studies.

    If you were so concerned with reliability why did you get a GM? (sorry couldn't help myself)
  • mliongmliong Member Posts: 231
    Sorry, that was just too good to pass up.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    GM's actually did pretty good in the most recent CR list of recommended vehicles - mostly SUVs though. Lost my link - I think I posted it in the Yukon discussion.

    Steve, Host
  • mliongmliong Member Posts: 231
    I don't recall them making anything other than Trucks or SUVs...
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    I can't keep that straight. To me GM means the parent company, so GM makes Chevy which makes Ventures. Ditto the Montana & Silhouette. GMC will always mean trucks to me because my mom drove one. And I tend to lump SUVs in with trucks instead of crossovers or glorified MVs or wagons.

    Whatever floats your boat works for me ;-)

    Steve, Host
  • bdaddybdaddy Member Posts: 171
    "A Chevrolet Celebrity would be cooler than any minivan, IMO" - pluto

    Cool was when I cared. I had some pretty cool cars in my day. I can't tell you how many hours were spent washing, waxing, tuning, repairing and modifying. Then I got married. No need to be cool anymore - need to be practical and have comfort and convenience features.

    Chevy Impala cooler than a minivan? Maybe, if it's a '68 Impala SS convert. with a 396 or 427 tri-power. If not, don't waste my time.
  • pat84pat84 Member Posts: 817
    "A Chevy Celebrity is cooler than a minivan." In a DC vs. Odyssey topic. Nice to see some trolls' posts are OK.
  • pluto5pluto5 Member Posts: 618
    You're right; Ody is no competition for any sport sedan.
  • artgpoartgpo Member Posts: 483
    To those who posted concerning IIHS' crash test of a 1997 (none since) GM triplet:
    Go to that same web site and read the ratings for number of property and injury claims. The Olds Silhouette has the LOWEST (meaning least) % of claims of both categories of ALL large vehicles. Their numbers, not mine.

    I have noticed that ANY manner of stating contrary information sparks all manner of attack, some personal. I have owned six new minivans of which three were absolute dogs: 1983 VW Vanagon, 1987 Nissan Van, 1993 Grand Caravan. The Nissan was SO bad that Nissan eventually had to buy them back as they were fire hazards. The best minis were a '90 Pontiac Transport and '97 Windstar. The jury is out on the '03 Silhouette.

    I say "do your research". Go to as many auto site as possible and read the information, especially owner comments. I do not always trust the word of auto critics who get the vehicles to test for free. Consumer Reports (I am a subscriber for 30 years)only offers their OPINION. Just don't shoot from the hip.
  • bdaddybdaddy Member Posts: 171
    No minivan will ever compete with a sports sedan in the areas of acceleration and handeling, although the Ody 0-60 time of 7.9 seconds is probably faster than your Impala. But hey, I didn't buy my MV to blow the doors of of your Impala, I bought it to transport my family in safety, comfort and convenience.

    Calling the GM Impala a sports sedan is a stretch. Considering all of the other vehicles that are truely representitive of this vehicle class, I would have to advise prospective buyers that they could do much better.
  • pat84pat84 Member Posts: 817
    You can always make an Impala faster by putting a Nascar sticker on the rear window.
  • cavillercaviller Member Posts: 331
    "To those who posted concerning IIHS' crash test of a 1997 (none since) GM triplet:
    Go to that same web site and read the ratings for number of property and injury claims. The Olds Silhouette has the LOWEST (meaning least) % of claims of both categories of ALL large vehicles. Their numbers, not mine.

    I have noticed that ANY manner of stating contrary information sparks all manner of attack, some personal.    "

    Property, injury and death statistics do have a small component of crashworthiness in them. Unfortunately, they have a large component of nonvehicle factors like driver profile as well. A more likely conclusion is that Silhouette drivers are safer drivers on average than those of other minivans. This also explains why essentially identical vehicles such as the GM Trio, Voyager/Caravan, Quest/Villager and Sable/Taurus have varying results.

    Even so, keep in mind that most minivans score in the best "Substantially Better than Average" category in the Injury and Death rates tabulated by the IIHS. Even if I was to ignore all the other relevant safety data available, the minor differences within the best category are probably not enough to claim one is significantly better than the other.

    Crash tests, on the other hand, put vehicles in identical crash situations and measure direct injury and intrusion measures upon the occupants. You could also quibble about the rankings and specific injury measures of vehicles that received the same "4-star" in an NHTSA test or an "Acceptable" in the IIHS Offset test, but that probably isn't worth the effort, either. On the other hand, I am concerned when I start to see "3-star" ratings or "Marginal" IIHS results. If the automakers cannot design a vehicle to perform well in a long-established test whose parameters can be duplicated by manufacturers, why would I think they have made the effort to design the vehicle to perform well in crashes that may vary from the standardized tests?

    While it's nice to know that other drivers of your vehicle tend to be safer than those of other vehicles, I would think that anyone genuinely concerned about safety as a top priority should also want to know that their vehicle does well in all the standardized crash/rollover tests and has a nice assortment of advanced safety and crash avoidance features. Of course, safety isn't the top priority for everyone. We all pick the vehicle that meets ALL our priorities the best, including price, long term value, comfort, convenience, performance, reliability, color selection, etc, etc.
  • mliongmliong Member Posts: 231
    I agree with your well written and thoughtful post.
  • pluto5pluto5 Member Posts: 618
    Your condescending attitude is typical of Honda owners.

    For your information sedans have front and rear crush zones making the rear seat safer than the rear seat in a minivan. I simply expressed the opinion that children are safer in the rear seat of a large sedan than the third row seat in an Ody or DC van.
  • tinyguytinyguy Member Posts: 44
    At least in Canada, interest rates offered by the dealer at Honda is not very impressive (close to 8%). You can get slightly better rates through banks, but not significantly lower. Manufacturers like Chrysler, GM and Ford offers much lower rate. This almost makes up for the difference in depreciation cost. (Ok, so it doesn't completely cover the difference, but the "depreciation factor" is now much smaller). I owned a combo of one GM and one Honda vehicle for a while, and this is proving out to be true over and over again. I tend to keep them for about 5 years at a time.



    Any comments?
  • bdaddybdaddy Member Posts: 171
    "Your condescending attitude is typical of Honda owners."

    Ahhh, but I also own a GM (Cheby pick-up). GM - mark of excellence!!
  • cavillercaviller Member Posts: 331
    "For your information sedans have front and rear crush zones making the rear seat safer than the rear seat in a minivan."

    Minivans have rear crush zones, too. Unfortunately, they are much shorter than in sedans, especially in short wheelbase versions. The major risk is seatback failure in a severe crash from the rear. Fortunately, these types of crashes are pretty rare, around 5% of all fatal crashes. Seatback failure is more likely when a third row seat is loaded by one or more heavy adults. Injury is more likely when the adults are not seated in a position with a head restraint or lap+shoulder belt (i.e. the center in most minivans).

    "I simply expressed the opinion that children are safer in the rear seat of a large sedan than the third row seat in an Ody or DC van."

    Children in a properly used harnessed carseat or high back booster do not have nearly the same risk factors as an adult in the third row. They are light, and will not load the seat nearly as much. The shells of their carseats provide much better protection from intrusion. Harnessed carseats provide much better protection from ejection. My opinion is that the 3rd row of an extended wheelbase minivan only has a very slight disadvantage compared to a sedan for young children.

    Side impacts are more common and tend to be more severe than rear impacts. There is little crush space in any vehicle. I'd give a very slight edge to children in the minivan, since they will be riding higher than in most sedans.

    BTW- Good luck with your Impala. An excellent choice for a very safe vehicle.
  • pat84pat84 Member Posts: 817
    The Odyssey does have a lap and shoulder belt for all three in the back seat. The center seat lap belt has a clip that secures it in the overhead. There are also three adjustable head restraints in the rear seat. The rear seat is quite away from the rear hatch. There is a well in the back that separates the rear seat from the rear of the Odyssey. The folded rear seat. fits in the well. There has never been any documented rear seat failures of the Odyssey.
    Some time many years ago, the DC vans (may have been the only minivan at the time) had the rear door open in some accidents with un belted passengers being ejected. This was fixed and hasn't happened since. I had a 96 DC van that did not have a shoulder belt in the center of the rear seat. I do not know about current DC vans, although I have rented newer DC vans, I did not really check out the rear seat.
    Interesting, in the offset collision tests, the drivers lower leg and ankle were considered "at risk" in the Impala. Not so of the 5 star Odyssey.
    I did not mean to be condescending,
    I have a friend who really discrinates against an Odyssey owner, with whom I am aquanted. It is my friends's attitude that needs an adjustment. He has no sense of humor. The Odyssey owner does.
  • bdaddybdaddy Member Posts: 171
    Very informative, objective posts. Rear seat safety is always of concern to a parent. Families with more than two or three children face a dilemma in regard to which child they place in the third row seating area of a minivan. While crash statistics help to mitigate the uneasiness of this seating position it still presents angst for parents. As far as I know, most sedans are not an option for 3, much less 4 children families. Parents in these situations need to assess their situation carefully and make the best, well-informed choice.
  • pat84pat84 Member Posts: 817
    I could make a strong argument for selectable turning off of the front passenger air bag. In some family situations, a wife may choose to ride in the back next to the youngest child. An older child could then ride in the front passenger seat in a booster chair,for example, with the air bag temporarily disabled. This would make use of the van much more flexible for families with young children.
    BTW when I was young, my parents had a station wagon with a rear facing rear seat. We used to fight over who got to sit there, the farthest from our parents. Talk about dangerous.
  • cavillercaviller Member Posts: 331
    "The Odyssey does have a lap and shoulder belt for all three in the back seat. The center seat lap belt has a clip that secures it in the overhead. There are also three adjustable head restraints in the rear seat. The rear seat is quite away from the rear hatch."


    I know. That's not only why I said 'most' minivans, but also one reason I have an Odyssey...


    "I could make a strong argument for selectable turning off of the front passenger air bag. In some family situations, a wife may choose to ride in the back next to the youngest child. An older child could then ride in the front passenger seat in a booster chair,for example, with the air bag temporarily disabled."


    Anyone with a genuine need to have a child 12 or under to be seated in front can fill out the required paperwork to get NHTSA approval for the installation of an airbag on/off switch. This makes it far more difficult for casual front seat use, which is always less safe for kids 12 and under.


    "BTW when I was young, my parents had a station wagon with a rear facing rear seat. We used to fight over who got to sit there, the farthest from our parents. Talk about dangerous. "


    Rear-facing is actually the safest way to travel. The entire seat cradles your back, neck and head in frontal crashes which are most common and most severe. With adequate seat strength, we'd all be much safer rear-facing. This is also why we like to have infants and toddlers remain in rear-facing carseats as long as possible. Each "graduation" to a front-facing harnessed seat and then to a booster is a reduction in overall safety.


    Some Volvo wagons still have rear-facing seats, and I think the Taurus/Sable may also. Current designs are limited to children in certain age and weight ranges. Granted, current designs may be much better than the ones from the 70s... This is an older link, but is somewhat relevant:


     http://au.geocities.com/ozbrick850/crash-rear.html


    Also:


     http://www.car-safety.org/rearface.html


    "Interesting, in the offset collision tests, the drivers lower leg and ankle were considered "at risk" in the Impala. "


    Actually, in the Offset crash test the 2000-2003 Impala did receive the same overall "Good" rating from the IIHS as the Odyssey. An Impala owner might comment that the Impala recieved a higher subcategory rating for Structure/Safety Cage than did Odyssey. Regardless, based on all the NHTSA and IIHS results and the nice safety feature package, Impala is a safe overall choice for a sedan. Also see:


     http://www.car-safety.org/family.html

  • pat84pat84 Member Posts: 817
    For front impacts, being in a rear facing seat is the safest. In a rear end collision about 5% of all crashes (according to a previous post ;) ) there would be serious injuries since our feet were not very far from the rear bumper. There were no seat belts or air bags back then. The Dash was all metal with big chrome knobs all over for AM radio, heater, etc. The steering column didn't collapse either. Overall really unsafe by today's standards.
  • maltbmaltb Member Posts: 3,572
    Anyone with a genuine need to have a child 12 or under to be seated in front can fill out the required paperwork to get NHTSA approval for the installation of an airbag on/off switch.

    It can be done, but niether NHTSA nor the OEMs make this process an easy one and it can cost more than a few dollors. I wish the option was standard in all vehicles.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Makes one curious about what lobbying took place to make airplane seats face "forward." Ever wonder what many of the flight attendent jump seats are on bulkheads facing towards the tail?

    Steve, Host
  • mliongmliong Member Posts: 231
    Maybe it's so that they can watch the passengers during take-offs and landings?

    Or, in this day and age, watch for people trying to set their shoes on fire!!!!! :O
  • elf6elf6 Member Posts: 10
    Recently I bought a new 02 T&C LXi. Has heated leather seats, power doors, power tailgate, traction control, side air bags, 3.8L engine, roof rack and 4 disc in dash changer. MSRP was $34,915 and I paid $27,748 which included dealer added undercoating. Only additional charge was a $149 documentation fee which is required in Kansas. Also looked at the 03 Odyssey EX-L with MSRP of $28,710 which is about $1000 more than I paid for the T&C LXi. Liked a lot of things about the Odyssey but selected the T&C because of all the extras not available on the Odyssey such as:

    1. Overhead console with temperature, compass, trip computer, tire pressure monitor, vehicle info center.

    2. Power tailgate. Very useful in bad weather.

    3. Roof rack cross bars.

    4. AM/FM cassette radio with 10 infinity speakers and an in-dash 4 disc changer.

    5. 3-zone automatic temperature control.

    6. Center console with holder for cell phone and recharger outlet.

    7. Fog lights.

    8. Heated folding rear view mirrors.

    9. Split 3rd row seats that fold, tumble and remove easily. This allows removal of only one seat so can still place 3 child car seats in back and have additional luggage room.

    10. Windshield wiper de-icer.

    11. Adjustable cup holders in front and second row that securely hold smaller cups as well as large cups.

    12. Better looks with hidden sliding door tracks and tailgate handle and better color options. (personal preference).

    13. 8-way power passenger seat.

    14. 7yr 70,000mi power train warranty.

    The Odyssey EX-L does have more horsepower (240 hp @ 5500 rpm vs 215 hp @ 5000 for T&C) however the Chrysler has more torque (245 lb-ft at 4000 rpm vs 242 lb-ft at 4500 rpm for Honda). Difference in 0 to 60 time is probably not too great and the T&C is fast enough for my driving. Odyssey will probably get slightly better gas mileage (EPA 18 to 25 vs 18 to 24 for T&C) possibly due to the 5 speed transmission. In driving the two vans the Chrysler is much quieter and smoother running with very little wind or road noise and seems to handle better which was also the conclusion reached by the Edmunds testers in their 2001 minivan tests. The Odyssey magic 3rd seat is not much of an advantage to me as I seldom remove the seats. Have owned 2 other Chrysler minivans and in over 140,000 miles of driving in an 8 year period have only removed the 3rd row seats about 4 times and both 2nd and 3rd row seats about twice. The new T&C makes seat removal very easy since the 3rd row split seats roll out and only weigh about 55 lbs and the 2nd row captain seats roll out on the same tracks. With the seats out the T&C has a larger cargo capacity (167.9 cu ft versus 146.1 cu ft for the Odyssey). Initially tempted to buy the Odyssey because of the perceived better reliability but after looking at the April 2002 Consumer Reports Reliability data for 99, 00 and 01 model years the reliability of the 2 vans is about the same with the T&C being slightly better. In addition there are reported transmission problems in the Odyssey. I have owned a 95 Grand Voyager LE that had 87,000 miles when sold to my brother and currently own a 98 T&C LX with 50,000 miles. No engine or transmission problems have been experienced on either van and both continue to run great. In conclusion I bought the T&C because of all the extras for less money, better looks, quieter ride, better warranty, and satisfaction with two previous Chrysler minivans. The Odyssey is a good van and might have considered it more except for the higher price and the arrogant attitude of Honda dealers who want you to put down a deposit and buy one at list price whenever they get it in usually without taking a test drive. As the supply of Odyssey's increases have noticed Honda dealers are becoming nicer and more willing to come down on price a little.
  • hayneldanhayneldan Member Posts: 657
    For those prospective buyers who may believe in percieved quality. check out no. 13 on this site..

    http://lemonlaw.com/lemonlist.html
  • maple49maple49 Member Posts: 66
    Good post. You did your research and picked the vehicle that best met your needs. Good luck with your van.

    I bought an Odyssey (2002 EX-L). I am very happy with it and didn't have a need for most of the items you listed above. Main reason I picked the Odyssey were comfort, performance/how it drove, safety, size, gas mileage, build quality, folding 3rd row seat, resale and probably a few other I can't think of right now. The T&C is a very nice vehicle. Personally I prefer the looks of the Honda.

    I have had two Chryslers (Jeep GC) prior the the Odyssey. I think the overall build quality (materials used, rattles, panel gaps, etc) is far superior on the Honda. The Jeeps were leased and the last one started to develop transmission problems and a radiator leak with only 36,000 miles.

    I would like Honda to provide a better warranty (at least 5yr/50K) but with waiting lists on a lot of their vehicles I don't see that happening anytime soon.

    For me the Honda was the best choice. I think other good choices are the Mazda MPV (if you want something a little smaller) and the DC vans. I personally think the Ford and GM vans don't measure up. The Kia looks attractive from a price perspective but probably too soon to tell if it will prove to be a solid vehicle.
  • pat84pat84 Member Posts: 817
    I understand that airline seats face forward for phsycological reasons to give passengers the concept of forward motion. Also, some get carsick (and possibly airsick) facing backwards.
    I take quite a lot of business trips and it gives me the opportunity to drive a good many rental vehicles. I have always taken a van when offered if they are out of my car.
    I have rented mostly DC vans ( one reason their re-sale value may suffer is because of the car rental sales of used vans). I did get a Windstar once with 7 miles on it. Brand new on a Hertz lot.
    I had a 96 Grand Caravan that I traded in for a 99 Odyssey. The Odyssey with 67 K miles on it still drives like new .I never had one problem with it.
    The DC vans and Odyssey are quite a bit alike. It comes down to personal choice. The big advantage of DC vans is that you can select options. The only options on the Odyssey are dealer installed. The DC handle more like a sports car. the Odyssey more like a sedan. Although with the Odyssey's independent suspension. It holds the road better at high speed. The brand new Windstar had sloppy steering. Not on a par with the ODY or DC.
  • mliongmliong Member Posts: 231
    Up to what speed is Traction Control functional at a DC? I think it's only functional till 18MPH for the Odyssey.

    Just curious, thanks!
  • tomtomtomtomtomtom Member Posts: 491
    MOST
    Honda sales have attitude problem
    DC/Ford/GM sales have problem getting customers
    Porsche/BMW/Toyota sales are very polite
  • maltbmaltb Member Posts: 3,572
    toyota sales are very polite....

    trust me, all dealers are NOT created equal.
  • maltbmaltb Member Posts: 3,572
    I can see how an Ody would be mistaken for a Diablo. I'm blown away by the Ody's lines evertime I see one. And oh, the colors!
  • mliongmliong Member Posts: 231
    Hey, I would smile too if I was making thousands off of a luxury car sale! Kaching!!!
  • tomtomtomtomtomtom Member Posts: 491
    That's why I said MOST.
    Well, Honda's sales should be smiling and be polite too if they are charging those markups but they give you attitude instead.
  • mliongmliong Member Posts: 231
    You know, you do have a point... But maybe the profit they can get is much more than $3K on a BMW or Prosche?
  • tomtomtomtomtomtom Member Posts: 491
    $3K a car? Where can I sign up for the job? The average different between the invoice and MSRP on a Bimmer or a Porsche is about $3K with option. I doubt the sales can keep the different between the invoice and MSRP on any car dealerships.
  • pat84pat84 Member Posts: 817
    I ordered my 96 DC with the options I wanted. It took maybe a month to be delivered. The window sticker listing options had "Built for Pat84" at the top. I thought that was a nice touch.
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