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Again, those who don't view cars as extensions of themselves and look at a Porsche or Ferrari and shake their heads in disbelief tend to drive Camry's or Civics. These are "nice" cars, but tend to lack passion and emotion.
Enjoy your ride in whatever you drive...
the only vehicle made on the planet that has all that for anything close to $40k is the treg. it's about $10k cheaper than any comparably equipped vehicle and nothing else has near the towing capacity.
my treg is not loaded with options. it has a v8, xenons, and sound system 1. everything else on my list of wants was either standard or came in the v8 package. i paid $39715, just what i was looking for.
and again it's not $5k for just a v8. the premium package on the v6 which gives you all the interior upgrades that are on the v8 like leather, 12 way power lumbar seats, wood trim, heated+folding mirrors, etc costs $2300. if you allow just $700 for the 18" wheels and tire upgrade, which are not an option on the v6, that means they are really only charging about $2k for that audi engine. and yes i do think it might cost around $2k more for them to produce that v8 over the v6.
if i have to spend a couple hours a day in a vehicle for the rest of my life. it's worth it to me to buy vehicles that will improve my quality of life, not appliances that would drag it down.
i respect your position about you choice of transportation, and hope i helped you to understand and respect mine.
I read and participate is several of these town halls, and while everyone is certainly entitled to their opinion, I must -- while respecting your right to your opinion -- suggest that folks who participate in these Internet discussions are generlaly quite passionate about their cars. Indeed, even the folks who are driving far more pedestrian cars consider them a source of fun, pride perhaps, lust in some cases and, yes, transportation.
The V8 Touareg is, by virtually any measure, appropriately priced over the the V6 -- and by some measures it is a steal. You, sometimes, get what you pay for.
Some folks here disagree [with me] but overall, I find VW builds cars that are bargains (and that includes the Phaeton and Touareg and Passat W8.) I know there are dealer and quality control issues that are repeated here often. I do not disagree with these folks.
I do, however, believe that VW engineers mostly great cars and they are worth what they ask for them!
As for leather coming standard in the V8, most people who spend nearly $40k for a vehicle want leather. Considering that the car is made in Europe and the delivery time is much longer than a US made car, it makes little sense to basically double the inventory requirements of V8 models by giving the buyer the choice of leather or vinyl.
The T-reg v-6 is very sluggish with torque well below the minimum required. American consumer will pay for the v-8 as much as we pay for the v-6. So why would the u. s. market even consider the v-6 as an option?
And for diesel lovers; my advice is wait for the super car; THE V-10(and you will be paying the price of a European V-8)
I can hardly wait for the cries for my head after saying this; but, so long as you know that I am only "mostly" serious and I find neither fault nor have predjudice if you decided to go that way.
It just seems to me that you get so much more with the V8 version. My friend, who just bought a new X5 3.0 (which was just south of $50K and didn't even have sat nav) looked at the Touareg and claims he would've bought the V8 version if it wasn't a first year model and if it had come with "free" maintenance like the bimmer.
A 6 cylinder X5 for the price of the V8 Touareg. . .indeed he said it was his favorite and the "dealer and first year scare" actually kept him from buying.
Ok, now tell me why the V8 isn't the better value, as I contend.
I grant the V6 is lower price and that may make "affordability" the issue you will discuss -- but, assuming you have the wherewithall to acquire the V8, why -- other than the lower cash outlay -- would you not go for the "bargain" version (the V8).
Bring on your counterpoints, ladies and gentlemen.
BTW, the V8 comes with 18" inch wheels which Consumer Reports (Jan, 04) tested as having a 15% drop off in on snow performance over the 17". I didn't need that either.
There is nothing wrong with the V6 -- some people have decried its lack of power (compared to the V8 and the diesel), but I don't recall it being accused of a lack of refinement. Other valid observations include its thirsty ways, again when compared with the (US only) only other option we have, again the V8.
My comments pertain to content for $$. They are, in that respect, price independent. The only reason to choose the V6, then, is price or monthly payment. I can only wonder if the V6 and the V8 had the same price, if anyone would still choose the V6 (considering the two engines are only 1 mpg apart).
To say that you don't want a V8 is a fair comment and certainly doesn't make one a bad person or ill-informed or nuts in any way. But, I suspect the main reason for the V6's even being offered in the US is to make sure there was a "low priced" offering.
The fact that apparently some folks find them unsatisfying and that others, like me, find them (the V6's that is) to be "less for the money" and that still others simply say the V6 is the right price probably confirms the wisdom of VW's decision to bring these two to market.
Simply put, it would stick in my craw that I didn't get as good of a deal or as high a value for my bucks if I purchased the V6 over the V8.
To each his/her own.
Please, only those who would buy the V6 over the V8 -- if they were priced the same -- need respond (to this point of view). I already understand the point of view of those who for whatever reason chose lower price over higher price (and, IMHO, higher value.)
I'm only saying the V6 meets my needs. I'm sure the 8 is great. Someone who "demands more" should definitely put a few extra thousand into their Touareg. They will love that one too.
I bought the 6. It does everything I need it to do. For me, why would I pay for something I don't need? I'll put the money I save in Ebay stock and see if I can create some "higher value" that way.
Are you saying that you would have still bought the V6 if the V8 had the same price?
If that would be the case, then that means that the V6 was purchased because it met your needs and without price consideration. If, however, you would have rather had the V8 and bought the V6 because it was less, well, then VW did indeed make the correct decision.
Sometimes auto manufacturers will make a base model of a vehicle in part for marketing reasons--for example, "from $35,995" may encourage potential buyers into the showroom where often they upsell themselves into the more typical version which is $42,995.
I am not suggesting that VW is guilty of the old bait and switch routine that washer and dryer retailers were so fond of doing. I am saying that the V6 was perhaps brought to market to gain market share. And, perhaps it contains more profit (margin, if not dollars) which means for them it was smart.
Some of us just think the V8 is "less money" than the V6 if you factor in "what you get for your dollar" over the absolute selling price.
still some buy with a definite goal in mind.
Porsche now has 3 cayennes, a V6, V8 , and V8 turbo. To each his own........t'reg/cay are all class busting good. All offer enough power for everyday driving....
we are all blessed .... :-)
I remarked especially about the lack of the sunroof.
He told me that although he did get two new cars per year from Audi as an Audi "executive" that he still had to have money deducted from his paycheck and that the sun roof was about 4,000 Euros -- he said he thought it would cost the equivalent of $4,500 US dollars.
While walking around in Berlin, Zurich and Munich, I would wonder into Audi dealerships and glance at the sticker prices. What we consider a more or less entry level A4 1.8T (somewhere between $28K and $32K) costs -- with apologies for the conversion -- well over $40,000 USD. A Passat in London, and NOT a GLX 4Motion with V6 was about 30,000 pounds (also about $43,000 ~ with some fuzzy conversion of pounds to dollars). A $30,000 dollar Passat is pretty much near the top of the line in the US (excluding the W8).
The German remarked that he could get a car in the US, ship it back to Germany for less money than he can get one in his home country.
The cars we get are usually near the top of the line -- and those are the base models. When I first saw how many engines there were "below" the 1.8T, and then rented a 1.4 (non-turbo), I was certainly educated about the bargains these cars are here (with some mitigation of this fact curretnly due to the fact that the dollar and the Euro are now upside down, in favor of the Euro).
I don't know if it is "legal" but if you were to purchase your new Audi or VW in Europe once they reinstate the ED program, and just kept it there, it would be a heck of a lot less money than buying one in Germany as the German citizens have to do.
I assume if you left it in Europe the VAT tax and other expenses would come into play and the advantage would be lost. Of course, I guess it would be possible to buy your car in the US and transport it to Europe, which is what some folks certainly must do when they are transfered from the US to Eurpoe by their global companies.
Anyway the point is, we get for the most part, near top of the line German cars for less than the Natives pay for them in their own country.
I dont expect a V-6 owner to come out and admit he made the wrong choice. by
now he got used to the fact that the car is "under torqued",some in Europe are upgrading to the V-8 or the 2.5TDI. So for those of you who are contemplating which version to buy, read again all previous discussion on value for money etc. but take in consideration the most important factor when buying a car; IT HAS TO MOVE!
Yes, there are people, who want a T-Reg, but can only afford a V6. Don't make them feel like poor cousins...or bad.
Yes, there are people, who need no more than the V6. Don't make them feel they made a bad choice.
I have owned sedans of much less body weight - a V8 Merc with 280HP, an Infiniti with 260HP, and and Pathfinder with 240 HP...and yes don't lecture me on torque...fork whatever.
I own a T-Reg V6 now and am EXTREMELY HAPPY with it. When I want the extra power, I just put it in "S" and ZOOM ! I also use the Tiptronic shift to move off rapidly when I need to.
So, the V6 is GREAT FOR ME and I'm HAPPY!
Cy
Those of us who are "in favor" of the V8 seem to have one common theme -- "content for dollars."
The V6 Touareg seems to be more expensive condering the content of the vehicle.
This has nothing to do with class or ability to afford something. Within limits, most of us -- at least who acquire $35,000+ cars -- could probably aquire a $70,000 vehicle. But we choose NOT to because of opportunity cost.
I have no interest in suggesting that the V6 Touareg owners have made a mistake (and I do understand there are those who do feel it is a mistake). My interests lie in urging those who are on the fence between the V6 and V8 to look at the value proposition in addition to the monthly lease payment.
Anyway, if there is this much consternation here, VW picked its price points correctly. In my opinion, either vehicle is an extremely good value (pending is does not have any major issues). Some people put a weighted relevance on the extra power and the upgraded amenities, others put it on a well-rounded package at a savings. I bought a V8, but I gotta tell you, I don't think I would have been disappointed with a base V6. For the money, it is a steal, and I would have easily laughed off the slower acceleration to the extra coin in my pocket.
-BD
Its not even a $$$ /value issue. Its the way the 2.5 Tons car works. Take another look at ms g.#1705 "... and once over about 50mph it simply hums..." Thats the point i am trying to get across to all the buyers who have not made their choice yet; the suv should "hum" from the 1mph.
Hmmmmm....
Maybe it's that V8 owners realize that they have overpaid for what they have, and are now trying to justify THEIR purchase by stating that the V6 is "overpriced" on a relative basis...
See, we can twist anything around. In reality, there are so many personal decisions that come into play when purchasing a car, arguments like this are pretty spurious. I would say that the "value" play would exist when looking at a low priced vehicle for basic transportation. However, when looking at $35,000 plus cars, particularly one's that have features that many of their owners will never use, "value" isn't a word I would consider. Particularly on an asset that depreciates immediately. There may be a "relative value" assigned by the purchaser between whatever they are considering, but there is so much else that goes into the equation. Plus, everyone has his/her own views/opinions.
I paid cash for my V6. I could have paid cash for a V8. I could have paid cash for a Cayenne, for that matter. For me, the car I bought, with its particular options and features, satisfies my needs, particularly taking into account a lot of other variables. So, for me, I felt that I got a good deal on my purchase, there is a perceived "value" in my vehicle (monetary/emotional and otherwise), and I'm a happy camper. The same is obviously being said by the V8 crowd. Bottom line....the right choice is the one that is the best for each individual, taking into account their particular situation.
I think the V6 owners are happy for what they perceive as a good value and good acceleration in a good car. It satisfied all their vehicular requirements, including acceleration...!
In the eye of a top fuel dragster, which goes 0-150 mph in 2 secs.....all would be slow.
But for V8 owners who drive with more weight and need more torque or high end top speed, then an 8 cylinder is what is called for . They are happy and appreciate the more horses. I don't think they will use it all the time, but its there....
both are great cars and will do 99% of what we ask of them.
One question. In trying to calibrate the compass, the instruction manual tells you to press "OK". Where is the OK symbol you are suppose to activate?
1. The perforated vent on top of the dash is an air vent. It is there to minimize the sound of the air flow entering the vehicle, and I think it works pretty well.
2. I found this out by accident. To start the car, you don't need to turn the key to the START position and hold it until the engine starts. You can just flick it to the START position and let go - the engine turns over and starts on its own.
3. Air suspended models only, I assume: At each wheel, there is a link tied to the suspension that actuates a rotary sensor. These measure the height of the vehicle and are used to determine how much air is to be loaded into the springs.
Interesting observation. I had the same when driving both versions(V-6, V-8 rented T-Regs) in Holland. Altitude there is around 0 foot above see level.
What's VW's normal break in schedule look like?
Some people are convinced that it doesn't matter how hard you drive a vehicle, that it just doesn't matter to the mechanical longevity of the machine (or it's parts).
If your one of those, go for it!
Lot's of other people believe that how a vehicle is driven for it's first 500-1000 miles is critical in determining just how long it will last and how much it will cost to keep it on the road.
I'm one of these.
Personally, I wouldn't even think about buying it unless I was certain that I'd be rid of it within the power train warranty so that anything that goes wrong is on the manufacturer's dime.
I remember getting a test drive in a brand new Passat W8 with 26 miles on the odometer and having the salesman encourage me to bury the gas pedal and run it up to the red line just to experience the acceleration (in a $40k Passat).
could you forward it to me as well
Happy V6 owner
lastoneleft@msn.com
Tom
European Diesels will be coming to the US from several manufacturers -- we have not seen some of the recent generation TDI's here on this side of the Atlantic due to a fuel purity issue; and, the "fix" is in the pipeline (so to speak -- I crack myself up!)
These new TDI's are torque rich, more efficient than their gasoline counterparts and are difficult to differentiate from gasoline powered engines either inside or outside the vehicles (assuming you don't see the TDI badges). These cars start "normally" in cold weather and are often engineered to provide great acceleration in the stop light dragstrips we call urban driving.
While sometimes -- ok more than sometimes -- being rated with lower horsepower, the stump pulling torque from low RPM's is often seen as a reasonable trade since most people claim to buy horsepower but really love torque (that comes on early).
The VW/Audi group produced several YEARS ago a 2.5LTDI rated at 180HP (big deal you say, when the 1.8T does the same thing, so what?)
The difference was the 180HP engine has so much low end torque that it "feels" stronger even than the 3.0 gasoline V6.
No wonder many of us -- and I have had the pleasure of driving an A4 2.5TDI with 6spd stick and sport package -- have been keenly interested in these engines. The fact that they achieve higher MPG's and the fuel, thus far, is generally less money than unleaded premium per gallon is just sweetening the deal.
Now, there was a time when reliability, repairability and fuel availability were problematic. Apparently these attributes are history.
There does appear, however, to be one hurdle remaining -- the cost: a Touareg with a V10 diesel will be significantly more $$ as people will, practically speaking, configure them.
I have seen reports that show these vehicles will blow through the $50,000 price range and keep right on going until the first number begins with a "6."
Perhaps VWguild can enlighten us with respect to the US MSRP.
Price independent -- which is often used, in the motoring press, to evaluate cars -- it has been written that most people will choose the Touareg WITH the diesel.
Of course, the reality of the MSRP will dampen that enthusiasm, I suspect, just as the V8's price point has helped sell many V6 Touaregs.