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Comments
I'm a big fan of the words of Herbert Spencer, the English philosopher who also allegedly coined the phrase "survival of the fittest".
This should be written on the entrance to all major highways:
"The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools."
I'd rather see the tech go into passive safety equipment that cannot be defeated by being foolish. Calling AH a "safety device" sounds to me anyway, as nothing much more than a rather convoluted means of justification for selling it to us.
Now, if you want to represent AH on a C5 as "trainer wheels", I'm okay with that.
I know you can't fly a modern jet fighter without a computer but every true pilot still loves a biplane.
Having spent the last 16 months getting time on 5 different road courses in vehicles with 4 different performance levels I'm glad to have started out with some 'training wheels'. As for encouraging people to buy the technology, unabashedly Yes! Errors, accidents, mistakes can all be educational, gets more tragic when they turn fatal and very tragic when it's fatal for a bystander.
In the first case, there are a LOT of Corvettes on the road, so having something a little different is appealing. In the second case, it's an ego thing, but in the case of the '58 conversion, at least an ego that has some reason to be inflated.
I'm sure money-wise, he'll lose his shirt on the car. Most customizers do unless they have a national reputation.
The dealer that did my deal was Mossy Cheverolet in Encinitas and they were great to deal with. Let us know how things go for you and good luck.
The one part that was shocking was when he pushed in the rear panel of the car. What the hell was with that, completely plastic.
The final verdict is "If you want a left hand drive plastic car, with Vietnamese suspension, corvette is your car"
It is pretty funny in how they dislike Vette so much even it beats Porsche GT3's track time.
Here is the link I got from trev0006 at www. superhonda. com http://www.sleepy-fish.com/sleepy/T...Corvette_lo.wmv
BTW, it is a pretty good website for just relaxing and seeing cars that you will not get at US run.
I can see why European gear-heads might not like a car that drives and feels like a Corvette, which is much the same reason why an American V-8 motorhead might not like a Porsche 911!
It has to do more with what you are used to than what is really "better".
Best defense of the Corvette? It gets the job done big time, end of story. You wanna nice ride, buy a Lexus SC430.
But then as the Corvette does 1G with the "Vietnamese" "leaf spring" suspension, it might be painfully obvious the pushrod engine outperforms all but their most "exotics" DOHC'engines. I would guess they would want to keep current and future customers paying 2x-10x what a Corvette costs for less performance? There is a method to their madness?
Or did they mean out-sourcing or something? Is that the dig?
In so far as your "toughness" metaphor, during the Vietnam War the enemy was resourceful in using our "dud" munitions against US. So applied to the Corvette, they went to their "old parts" bin and dusted off some old pieces.
Two years ago, app the early Sept time frame, my wife and I took our Corvette Z06 through the Southwest of the USA. (ala Route 66,CA, NV,AZ,CO,NM,UT,)The trip was probably a myth, dream, "blast to the past" fantasy come true for some. Since we had no professional committments, we didnt have to bring "those" kinds of clothes. But I have got to tell you, to pack 2 weeks of stuff in a Z06 cavernous trunk was a packer's nightmare. This is not a "woman's" packing lament; as both I and my wife each had a normal (carry on the airplane, under the seat or in the over head compartment) ballistic nylon small overnight suit case) and one plastic ice chest as 3 main pieces. I think we'd wind up having to share underwear and clothes in a Porsche 911, given the same trip and time frame. (Yeah would could have driven one of our Toyota Landcruisers and brought golfing buddies and 4 bags of clubs, but this is a Corvette thread.
My 2003 Corvette rear skin around the tail lights do the same thing that I saw in the Top Gear test. I've never seen what is behind the skin on the Corvette rear end, but I believe it is like virtually every other modern car on the market that doesn't have chrome steel bumpers. There is a plastic skin somewhat loosely covering some energy absorbing structure that is fastened to something much more strong. I'll bet I could find a surface to bend in like that on just about every modern car out there.
Without getting into a discussion on the weight issue, every racer knows they have to work with the HP/weight issue and the less pork the better!!??
The truth is Vette is a car that is designed for track and that is just what people like. From this issue of C/D, Vette has changed a lot, which is good for the Vette.
I wonder what will happen when 2006 M3 with rumored 400hps comes out. It sure will be interesting to see how M3 is stacked up against Vette, which has been untouchable by any car with $20,000 price range.
I think the issue has been finding that fine balance among Mercedes-Benz's interior finish, Vette's performance, Porsche's handling, Toyota's quality and Kia's price. And, frankly speaking, I do not think any car company has figured out what that magic formula is, yet.
I would also agree! But as a price issue point, I think the obstacle is the sub 3100 # issue. Also as you know they can not go from 333hp and whatever the torque is to 400 hp/torque, since the frame among other things like transmission and suspension etc, is at the higher end of the balance point already.
Loved your comment in your last paragraph (post #1058). Would we all love that or what!!!
I didn't check the links out as to the NSX beating the Vette in the 1/4, but I can tell you, "IT AIN'T GOING TO HAPPEN"!!!
The NSX is an absolutely wonderful car in my mind. My son had one and I drove it a lot....even on the track. So easy to drive, and drive fast BUT I can guarantee you, it won't hold a candle to the Z06 in the 1/4. I suspect they are at least 1+ second apart. Don't have time to look into a digest of 1/4 times in various cars but I bet I'm close on the one second+ bit.
As to the C6, I've seen nothing but good press on it. Limited testing so far but the newest Car and Driver had a good test and they were impressed.
As to a 400 horse M3, all is good in these H.P. wars. The M3 is also one helluva car but it remains fat.
I personally am patiently awaiting the C6 Z06 which should hit in about a year. Consensus has it at 500+ ponies and under 3000#. I'm salivating at the prospect at owning one, and I will....just a question of whether I want to get hosed on the price when they first hit or whether I'll have enough patience to wait well into the model year for some discounts. I usually wait for discounts, but the older I get the more instant gratification I want.
What gets better than a man and his toys?
Listing from BG Plant of VINs on commerative editions produced in 2004, includes coupes and verts as well as Z06's. Just FYI.
Production stats from 2003 per CorvetteActionCenter includes 35878 produced and with 8613 Z06's for 24%. Stats for 2004 not available that I can find but from link seems like 32k total. With same take rate, I'm guessing it was higher in '04, you get about 8k Z06's. Just a guess.
Link to older production info not put up by another site with forums:
http://www.idavette.net/facts.htm
They only have '02 and older data. FWIW
Both historical and future product info.
Hope the link works, if not cut and paste.
We recently purchased a 1996 LT1 after months of reading these kinda boards, sifting through the Corvette museum and local car shows. We love this car, its shape its performance (using a Hoinda Odyssey otherwise) and intend to keep it for a long time.
What we were kind of surprised is the lack of information on C4 Corvettes out there, especially on the 1992-96 models, the last model year LT4 Grand Sport. While we love the performance and leaving BMWs in Boxsters in the dust, we would like to know the exact performance specs of it - nothing out there. Does anyone know where onecan get the acceleration and top speed data for the LT1?
Answers much appreciated!
Here's one site that gives some interesting specs and production figures:
http://www.netvettes.com/1996.html
And here's 0-60, 0-100 for LT1 and LT4
http://corvetteactioncenter.com/specs/1996/96perf.html
You should indeed be able to beat a Boxster S 0-60 (on a track of course, as we do not race on the street do we) as you have more HP; however, the diff is only 1/2 a second, on paper anyway, so not quite a "dusting" there. A baseline Boxster you should be able to walk away from no problemo. Ditto a plain ol' BMW sedan. A BMW M3 however, would be troublesome, as you and he should run absolutely neck and neck.
But still, given that you can get a very nice '96 coupe for $14K-15K or so, that's an awful lot of bang for the buck you have to admit.
http://www.idavette.net/techno.htm
http://www.idavette.net/facts/96.htm
Corvetteforum.com also has lots of help specific to the C4.
As with my 2002, sometimes getting performance specs after an engine has been on the market for a few years requires going back to when it was first released. I drove a '95 for a year or so and the grunt torque with the performance rear end was really nice. Enjoy.
2004 Corvette Production Numbers
A total of 34,064 Corvettes rolled off the end of the Corvette assembly line for the 2004 production model year. Coupes still proved to be the most popular model ordered with 47 percent of total sales. Convertibles held a steady 36 percent with the Z06 claiming the remaining 17 percent. Le Mans Blue, a color named to commemorate the Corvette win in the 24 race, also won the race for most popular color at 20 percent, with Black finishing at a close second at 18 percent. Torch Red came in third at 15 percent. Only one option was chosen by all Corvette owners, air conditioning with auto temperature control was installed in 100 percent of the cars. Automatic transmissions were popular with 63 percent of sales. Excluding Z06s, which were all manual, 20 percent were equipped with the manual six speed transmission.
Comment, since the auto was standard and the manual $900 higher I still want to see if making them both the same cost boosts the manual percentage in 2005.
Hope to see any posters from here at the Woodward Dream Cruise in Detroit on Saturday. Biggest car event ever. I'm going up there tomorrow, and will be cruising in the 04 Medium Spiral Gray Coupe with Commemorative striping pattern done in Copper with a Medium Blue edge stripe. The windshield has "CORVETTE" done in the same Copper stuff. Give me a holler if you see me. My 300M gets a weekend off this year.
And I would very seriously consider purchase.
They have adapted the GP 4-speed automatic - available last year on the CompG version. I have no idea why the C6 does not have this feature. . .
- Ray
Driving a 5-Speed autostick / man-u-matic now, and enjoying it!
Haven't had the pleasure with an M3 so far, but Boxsters are fun to play with. I got a real nice example of a 96 C4 for a bit more than $15K, but doesn't have a single chip or scratch on it, and just 18K mls. Racing likely will be a rare occurence, but I am itching to know where the top speed is - while it is likely to be somewhere in the 160 range.
Starting with 8/32 in, I got 56,000 miles with 3.5/32 left on front and 3/32 on the rears. 220 UTOQ A AA or app 12,444 per 1/32 fronts and 11,200 rears.
The Toyo's starts with 10/32 in, or 2/32 more than the GY E F1 SC's. So given the same variables they should last longer. They are also slightly harder tread at 280 UTOQ. I have app 8-9k on the Toyo's and they are a much better touring tire. They are more quiet and in theory will last longer, given your particular situation.
It was also a benefit that the Toyo's were far cheaper than the OEM's. I can do 5,366 miles of touring with the cost savings!
For comparison the Michelin non A/S are rated 300 and the performance version is a 220 rating like the OEM Z06 tires that ruking1 is referencing. Tire rack is a great site for info and for good pricing to get a little discount at Discount/America's Tire where I find they know how to work with the tire sensors which can be messed up by shops that don't know the drill. Something else to consider.
As I understand the recall, they disable the lock by taking out the locking plate, not really great for theft deterence. The issue is written up several places on the web and seems to be due to a low voltage issue in some circuit, not a tech here, good luck deciding what to do.
I would agree with Starrow68. While I am NOT saying that it NEVER or does not happen, I have 65k on my 2001 and it has not happened. Earlier this month, (August 2004) I received the July 2004 ltr recall notice. The notice's non technical explanation is for the manual transmission, the dealer will reprogram the pcm and check physically to see if there is any binding concerns if so the lock will be replaced.
That was one of the last builds so now instead of getting exactly what you want you have to search inventory and see what's available. Some dealers on the internet have bigger inventories but most locals have only a few cars and if they sell the last one they won't get a replacement to sit on the floor for several months. In some cases that will impact how they bargain. Seems to me that $10k off would be fantastic but I don't know what the GM rebates are at this point so working from the $6.8k discount is at least a starting point.