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2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
I know BMW is spinning it as a move to better MPG. In this country, at least, that's a tough sell, however.
I suppose some will fall into the showroom just because of the badge (just like those who pay major dollars for a C series, regardless of how whimpy the motor is in them).
You can get a 335i for considerably less than $50K (discounted). I did it.
And you're welcome for the grammar lesson. As an immigrant (legal), I like to give back to the local folk. Nothing better than some literacy lessons . :P (ducking and covering)
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Why, then, do they have far cheaper examples in Europe? Why, then, do they offer a $31k 1-series? Frankly, I think claiming they don't WANT to offer it here is sour grapes. They don't believe there to be enough of a market to warrant it and/or they don't want to canibalize their own sales (would someone who stretched themself to buy a new 328 rather buy a 320? probably.), so they'd rather just say "I don't wanna."
That's my uneducated guess, anyway.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
People ranted on and on when the dipstick went away and the cars became "leasers" (keep it for 3 years then ditch it) because of the inability to self-maintain them. Shade tree mechanics used to love BMWs, but not these new ones. And now, with a turbo in all of the 3ers, BMW is telling "don't even think of working on this car yourself." They might as well remove the hood latch mechanism...
As much as I like the engineering, performance, and economy of a turbo-4, I would never buy one.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
That's not entirely accurate description of their European offering. What they have there is lots of different versions and options with their smaller-engine offerings obviously are cheaper to manufacture, but their prices are HIGHER than here - and by higher I mean INSANE.
They didn't have there "old" 328i (there were 325i and 330i, positioned just below/above in terms of hp, I believe these are same engines as those offered here before 2008), they have 335i just the same. If you configure one sold in German market to what sells here (largest in Europe), you come up with some ridiculous values. It would cost you there near double to get similar vehicle, I am not kidding (currency exchange already included). 335i for 100 grand anyone? A visit in BMW Welts is a real eye opener. A 1-series with smaller engine than here can cost you there equivalent of a base 5-series here. If you want to pay what we pay here, you come up with a base NA 4-cyl. engine, cloth seats, no extras of any kind. So it is not that people buy there 316i because they really want to and they simply don't like 335i, it's basicall most they can afford to buy. If you add their gas station bill being about double of ours, you get the picture. Oh no, if they'd take 328 or 335 in a heart beat if they paid what we pay.
People, you don't even realize how tough US market is for those guys and how lucky (demanding) we really are. They pay labor rates higher than here (especially if you factor in taxes paid by the employer) then they have to come here and sell it for a little more than half the price they'd command in their domestic market. If you realize that, you wonder how they are able to sell anything here at a profit and still offer decent (perhaps not great) choices.
On the flip side, there everybody gets choices upon choices, even in lower end brands. A typical 3-series price sheet is two pages here for a given body style, there it's a twenty-plus page booklet just for the same body style. People rarely buy from dealer's lots, they order and pick it up three to six months later. They often can't really test drive the car with engine they order (that's regardless of brand). Totally different experience.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
You got a fantastic deal on a smokin 335i w x drive coupe. So you are right, it is possible.
BMW is a performance luxury brand. In the American market, performance (for the masses) is equated by 0-60 mph times. They don't want a 320i NA 4cyl in their stable that does the sprint in 7.5 - 8.5 sec.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
I know this is going back a ways, but I know base Benzes, for example, served taxi duty. I would guess that's because they are relatively cheap, no? Does that still hold true today? Are they still used for that purpose?
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
Ford Focus is sold there as "family" vehicle. It is sold with 1.4 and 1.6 engines. Ford Mondeo/(Contour/Fusion) is considered an "middle level executive" - also sold with 1.6-1.8 engine. In many countries there is a big tax and insurance penalty when you go over 2 litters. Denmark has new car registration fees at levels comparable to value of the car. I'm not kidding - people have been known to take loans to pay off registration tax. And the list goes on. Even Germans, most affluent of all Europe drive mostly VW, Fords and Opels in configurations that would make Americans laugh.
Taxi Benz is nothing like Benz you see here, the only thing in common is the shell and the star on the hood. It used to be attractive for taxi because of durability of their base NA diesel engine vs. price relation to other brands. Regardless if you buy a Ford or Benz, you will spend much higher share of income, but Benz (used to) offer million mile durability, tons of spare parts available from knock off manufacturers.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Don't want to sound condiscending, but Americans are really cute sometimes. Let me tell you what an average median income Joe Brit/Hans Deutch/Jose Span/Jaques the French get from life: They live in a 800 sf apartment in a multi-apartment house, commute to work with bus/trane and on weekends they drive a five-to-eight years old Ford Focus/Renault Megane/Opel Astra with 90-110 hp engine, most likely diesel. Dr. Hans or Dept. Manager Jaques have vastly better life - they live in 1500 sf house and commute in three-year-old Ford Mondeo/Peugeot 405 with 140 hp engine, also diesel. Regional Manager Julio just moved into 2000 sf house and bought a new BMW 520d (4-cylinder diesel) with cloth seats but a keyless entry, which he showed to every neighbor.
Well, exact facts may differ slightly, but that's a general tone. When you understand those differences, the perspective changes dramatically.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
I'm not an economics guy by any stretch of the imagination (nor am I a world traveler), mind you, but I'm pretty sure something just simply costing more there doesn't means it is more expensive in relation to the average joe.
Just keep in mind, regardless of whether you find it cute or not, it doesn't mean what I said is incorrect. Everything is relative. Yes, if everything you say is true, then the cars apparently cost a larger portion of their income (although I have NO IDEA why). But since everything appears to be that way from what you are saying, then it is relatively on par with all living expenses, if you get my meaning.
Its the same thing from state to state here. Gas, food, taxes, real estate all vary WIDELY across the country. I could live as a king in Texas for pauper wages in NJ.
Hell, I'm middle management and I sure can't afford a new bimmer.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
The reasons for that to be the case are plenty, from general output (i.e. US is still in fact either highest of almost highest GNP/capita), combined with scale (even small price break could bring marginally more sales, which can fuel more price breaks). However, the biggest difference lies in market fragmentation (combined Europe is about US size, but each country has its own very separate ways and they don't interact in terms of retail) and more redistributive economy, i.e. higher taxation on all levels, from capital, to income, to consumption (e.g. Euro sales tax, called VAT is from 17 to 25%, Euro income taxes are progressive reaching 50% and beyond on top bracket, Euro social security taxes paid by employers as surcharge go into 30-50% territory, all depends on the country). There is also large amount of social engineering going on there as well, where "undesirable behavior" (such as owning large-displacement engine vehicle) is directly punished by the government through additional taxes and scrutiny. They also excert a direct pressure on manufacturers to make or not make certain products as well, a concept introduced to US just only recently. All this combines into really punitive taxes and high prices of "unnecessary good", which cars, especially luxury ones are perceived as.
It gets even worse in poorer countries, almost inversely proportional to their wealth. Explanation for that may be in volume: even if MB or BMW lowered the price, they would not sell more product, so prices remain high to pay for higher distribution cost of smaller markets and the circle closes.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
2018 430i Gran Coupe
wow.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
2018 430i Gran Coupe
re: Cars - a lot of positions over there come with company cars or a company-provided vehicle allowance. That may account for *some* of the higher-end cars, as the allowance has to be used for a vehicle and is use-it-or-lose-it.
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An apartment in Paris that is about the size of my master bath sells for $200,000..... :surprise:
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'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
Literally..... the size of my master bath... 140 square feet...
When you have 20 minutes to spare:
Paris studio apartment video
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Just like my BMW's better cars out there for less money, yes, but I wouldn't trade them for the world..
On the grammer - try posting from an iPhone- it stinks- plus 6 grad education
Not to stray too far off-topic, but does anyone have experience with negotiating with an insurance company regarding the appraised value of a car facing a "total loss?"
I need advice... :sick:
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
My insurance company has come up with a rather lower than expected 3rd party valuation report.
I don't want to derail the thread with off-topic chatter, but if someone has experience in this area, I would really appreciate some advice offline.
He knows all about special interest auto appraisals.
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Thanks!
P.S. I don't see a PM option here. How do you contact a member/host?
Seriously though, thank you KD, I do appreciate the sentiment. That is truly what matters and we are both physically OK - no injuries.
All Host e-mails are public in their profile.
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There doesn't appear to be any suspension or driveline damage, but both bumpers were ripped off, and both front fenders were pushed back and up into the A-pillars. The oil cooler is bent out of shape. We didn't see any evidence of frame damage, but the glove box doesn't close properly anymore, leading me to suspect more unseen damage. There are numerous light paint scratches all over the passenger side of the car. I haven't driven it, but the engine runs, there are no new leaks, and the rear wheels are still attached to the crank, so that's something.
Most of the expense from the bodyshop estimate is because they would replace body panels and have to paint the entire car to get a good blend. Do a four-wheel alignment and then insurance added $2500 for additional unseen work that is expected to be needed. Total estimate to repair is $15K - $17.5K.
I'm considering buying the Salvage and piecing it back together myself. USAA wants $4200 for it and I'm sure I could fix it for a lot less by bending things back into position, buying bumpers online and having MAACO paint them, etc...
Part of me knows it will never be the same and I'll think of my brother whenever I drive it. Maybe I'll just buy the salvage, part it out, and move on.
I really don't know what I'm going to do yet.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
On a somewhat brighter note, I did put out a couple of feelers for CPO Porsche 997's yesterday...
If standard insurance, I would add some of those in the back of Roundel as comps. I saw a couple in the most recent edition that were something like $25k-$30k, IIRC.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
Good advice about the Roundel classifieds. I have printed out a bunch of comps I have found online, but not from the Roundel.
Thanks.
Back in the summer, we bought a 300E for the wife. I too was worried about the perceived limitations on a Hagerty policy (for example), so I shopped around. Found another company that offers classic "agree upon value" coverage but also lets you choose a more liberal policy where you can drive the car for pleasure use up to a total of 7500 miles per year. So I bought that. (Wish I could remember the name off the top of my head, but I know I posted it on the Project Cars discussion.)
Not long after, Hagerty was bugging me for some feedback. I wrote on the form how I didn't like their restrictive policies. A rep called me after that to talk about it. He said they will cover for pleasure use and not just "to and from car shows." Which is good because I still have my MR2 covered by them.
So, anyway, there are options out there for you.
Good luck with this one. Anxious to hear a good outcome.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
I'll definitely let you know how everything ends up.
I don't envy you regarding dealing with the insurance companies. It's always a crap shoot whether they will actually do what's right by their customers (regardless of what their TV ads claim). Hope they do....best of luck!
Regarding the 4 cyl lux cars, I don't like them. They are not as smooth as their 6 cyl counterparts. The 328i I drove was down on performance vs the 6 cyl 328i I test drove last year. And, it's not nearly as smooth. Yet, it costs more. Go figure.
BMW does have an outlet for their 4 cyl cars.......it's called MINI.
It's no secret that I like well performing cars. That's the reason I like the TL SH AWD, the 335i, the Taurus SHO, etc (all of them were on my shopping list last go round).
I pretty quickly dismissed the Audis and MB (a C series, even with a 6 cyl, but down on power) for that very reason.
Call me whatever name you want. But, I put power before fuel economy....every time.
We'll see where the whole 4 cyl thing ends up for BMW. Haven't driven a 5 series in awhile. But, the trade rags I've read aren't too enamored with it using the 4 cyl.
BTW....my local dealer had an '11 535 GT in the showroom, loaded, MSRP well north of $60K. It had ~1,100 miles on it, used by the sales manager.
They had a price on the windshield of $49,999. If I were in the market......?????!!!!!!
That being said the 535 is a fantastic example where just Enuf power plus performance doesn't warrent the bigger engine.
Here's a review of the new 3, they did mention the engine was a little different but has more power.
http://m.caranddriver.com/review.rbml?id=440313&full=true
I think we have turned the page -4cyls arethe new Elpps, atleast the ones that produce torque and hps.
There used to be a "4 cylinder stigma" that I don't know exists anymore in certain circles. Fuel economy is on everyone's mind these days (and has been for quite some time now). I always enjoy a good car conversation outside of my enthusiast friends. People used to talk about acceleration & horsepower. Now the first question you hear someone ask when someone else gets a new car is: "How is it on gas?"
I wonder what kind of crazy incentives BMW will offer on the E90 335 & 328 xi before the new F30 Xi models come out. Cash? Low financing?
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
If maintenance costs are real issue for you, start with Acura TSX or TL. TL is definitely more luxurious, but more expensive and larger; you'd get newer TSX. TSX is smaller, but also more agile and better on gas. TL is basically luxury version on Accord. TSX is a top line of European/JDM car also called Honda Accord, but it's a different vehicle altogether.
My second choice for low maintenance entry level/semi luxury would be 2005-2010 Subaru Legacy GT or 3.6R (the last letters are important - it's a turbo version or 6-cylinder of Legacy, respectively). GT is very fast and has 6-speed manual transmission (if that's important to you), not so great on gas and may be hard to find. Legacy 3.6R Limited has a smooth 6-cylinder engine and AT and also decent level of equipment.
Third choice - Infiniti G35. For 18 grand, it may already be too old to be "problem free".
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Ok well how about a lease. _ Acura, Infiniti, BMW and others offer competitive leases that for that same 18k over 3 years you can get into a Elpps car.
On his Infiniti comment I have a 07 g35x with 30k miles - it can be had for 20k but in this economy would consider 18k- no problems, new stopers but does need tires. so In conclusion I think you can find a car - not cerified for 18k, year 2007 or better that will satisfy your needs. -