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With Automobile magazine recently rating the Subaru Legacy GT as the best family sedan. Also Road & Track picking the Legacy GT over the Acura TSX, can there be some reconsideration of adding the Subaru Legacy GT to this discussion. The size is about equal to the TL or the G35. The performance of the Legacy GT is equal or better. Safety measures & crash tests findings are equal. Quality fit & finish & interior materials are equal IMHO; that is subjective I understand, but they are much better than the last generation.
I think it warrants new consideration. The only thing missing is the NAV and the new 2006 will have that.
You are welcome to fire up another comparo of any set of vehicles that we aren't already comparing and that you think is viable. Click on the "Comparisons - Sedans vs. Sedans" link at the top (and bottom) of the page to check out the comparos which are already underway. That's also where you would create a new discussion if that seems to be the best thing to do.
By the way, I'm the host, not Sylvia.
More like, "The hostess with the mostess." ;-)
Best Regards,
Shipo
Why did you own a TL for only 11 months?
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Here's my take on the 2005 Legacy GT. blueguydotcom, "AWD MT Sedans - Subaru Legacy GT vs Others" #35, 1 Mar 2005 12:02 pm
It got yanked yesterday because I used an acronym that is looked down upon here.
As for the S2000, intriguing but not really worth it as the performance from that engine is only marginally better than my 330i perf pack. And the car's not really useful/ Boxster - not to my liking in any way, shape or form - basically it's just heinous. 911's sweet but not my bag either. Too much like a middle aged man's Vette in my eyes. Pretty impractical too.
If I were to get a modder beater, it'd be a miata and then I'd turbo it.
Hey, see the new IS? Bland (but styling's pretty unimportant to me) but the possibility of the 3.5 with 300 hp, RWD, lower driving position and lexus reliability, gets my eyebrows up. I'm hoping I've finally found something that can at least run with my E46 and not make pine for it.
Regarding seating, lowering the seat would only make me like I'm sitting in a hole and it won't change the fact the car is so damn high.
As for handling - please tell me you'll drive the sport model next time. No one complains in fact the 03 had .9 skidpad and 67 slalom (or 66.5 maybe can't remember) - not exactly lumbering.
Drove a G35 manual 05 which comes with the 18s. AFAIK, the manuals come with the sport suspension automatically. If i'm wrong, please correct me. I believe I'm right though (remember I wanted to buy an 03).
For a car the runs with - and not behind the 3 with ZHP pack - sporty sedan is just plain WRONG. You must have been owned by a G some time ago and have a bad thing for them now. You've been trshing them for over a year while the rest of the automotvie community respects that there is a new benchmark until 06 at least.
Owned how? I don't race people. I was owned by a G35 03 on a test drive - the car lifted up in the rear on a turn. Unsettling to say the least. IMHO, and it's just my opinion (thought other seem to agree), the G35 does not feel as centered or planted on the tarmac as the 330i zhp. Trust me, I wanted to buy an 03 and I desperately wanted to love the 05 G35. But the car's handling and engine just didn't match my expectations for a car in this class. I would love to be in a reliable, fast, competent, japanese sports sedan (not to mention cheap!). But I can't find one!
Uh, I haven't touched the 06 3 so I won't comment on the performance. Though I will say I think the body is ugly, interior bland and the size increase totally unwarranted. The e46 was already too porky (not just in weight but also size), so the e90 will get a coutesy test drive when i replace my car but I have very low expectations for the car. And for BMW in general.
BTW, my 330i with its measely 235 hp, still pulls perfectly and with no fanfare compared to my experience in the 05 G35. The inline 6 in my ZHP may not be my favorite engine but god, it's so smooth it makes me wonder how Subaru and Infiniti even try to compete with those engines. The racket in the highend is insane.
I'm anything but brand loyal. The guys at bimmerfest will atest to how I go rounds regarding my 330i and lousy bmw buid quality.
Hi everyone, this is my first post on this board. To give you a little background, I currently own a Mazda MX-6 and my wife drives an Acura MDX. We have a 14 month baby girl, and it is getting very difficult for me to get her in and out of the car seat, if I have to pick her up.
So, I'm in the market for a new vehicle. I had wanted to stay with a manual transmission -- I don't have traffic in my commute and prefer the fun and feel of a manual transmission.
Anyway, I had narrowed the choice down to the Acura TL 6MT and the Infiniti G35 Sedan with 6MT. After weighing all of the pros and cons, I decided to go with the G35.
Then came the baby car seat test, in which the G35 did not do well. The TL has a latch position in the center, so you can place a rear-facing car seat in the middle and still have room for 2 adults on the outside positions. The G35 does not have this.
I then tried to put the rear-facing car seat behind the drivers seat and the passengers seat. Even with the seats adjusted to my short 5'8" frame, I found that I had to move the seats too far forward in the G35. The Acura was a tiny bit better in this regard. Since my heart was set on the G35, I was very disappointed in this.
We only have one child now, but hope to have a second one in the future. Meaning that we will probably have both a forward facing toddler seat and a rear facing infant seat in the back. So, I really need a vehicle that can accomodate both.
This brings me to small SUV's. I test drove both the Infiniti FX35 and the Lexus RX330. The Lexus is more practical, but I really prefer the looks and sporty feel of the FX35. I preferred the control and feel of the FX35 sport suspension, with the 20" wheels, even though the ride was a tad harsher. I live in Dallas, and a RWD car with big wheels will rarely have weather issues to contend with.
I would appreciate any advice, especially with regards to the baby car seats, that would help me make my decision. If there are any parents of young children out there that have faced a similar problem recently, I would appreciate your input.
I have checked out the Infiniti Snugkids website, but it does not say anything about how to put a car seat in the center position.
One thought is to go with the my first choice, the G35. The problems with the infant car seat will only be for the first couple of years. After which the baby will be in a forward-facing car seat that the G35 can easily accomodate. Do I rule out my #1 choice just because of a car seat? Like I said, I was very disappointed when the G35 did not do well with the car seats. I'm beginning to think that all mid-size sedans will have this problem.
Sorry for the long email. Thanks.
More importantly, though, I'm concerned about your comment as follows:
"The TL has a latch position in the center, so you can place a rear-facing car seat in the middle and still have room for 2 adults on the outside positions."
I have an '04 TL and use a car seat, as I did with my prior 2001.5 Passat, and I don't think there is a center latch set in the Acura. PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE count the number of latches. I believe you'll find 4, and even though it is possible to attach the seat in the middle, you'll be doing so using the inside passenger-side latch and the inside driver-side latch. Latches are not tested this way. They are intended to have pressure applied to the same set of latches. So please, make sure you find a car with 6 latches in the back if you want to latch in the center.
1. I know the g35 is faster on paper but it sure does not feel faster. I guess it has to do with the overall size of the car. But the BMW simply felt like it had more pop.
2. I do admit the G has the bimmer beat in some areas. Back seat, stereo, and you can even argue it has a more modern look.
3. But I am here to tell you that everything people say about BMW's is absolutely correct. The biggest difference for me was behind the wheel and the connection you have with your surroundings and the road. It is truly amazing to me.
So in conclusion I decided to stay in my 2003 330i and wait to see the 06 3-series.
The funniest thing to me was I walked away thinking that it is either a BMW or it is not. And I will look again in time at the g35 and the new lexus IS but in the end I believe that if I do not get a BMW I am going to load up a Honda Accord and be Mr. family guy.
Really whats the difference, because if you want the best, get it. Sports sedan-BMW, family sedan - Honda... eom
When I drove the two cars back to back (auto), the G definitely felt faster. And that was with the 260hp 2003 G35. The 280hp 2005 G35 should be even faster.
The G is simply a bigger sedan than the 3. That alone works against it in terms of handling.
The Acura TL is my other option, but I am totally infatuated w/ the look and feel of the G35. Thanks.
Which dealer are you working with?
Best Regards,
Shipo
WARNING: You may have problems finding one equipped the way you liked. I wanted the Navigation System, and the nearest dealer that had one was in Atlanta and I wasn't willing to travel that far. I compromised and bought a base model.
I've driven a '65 MGB through two winters in Edmonton, followed by a '73 240-Z for three more winters.
Tires & common sense trump front-wheel drive all day long. AWD is pretty hard to beat, but the rest of the year you get to drag around more weight, and all where you don't want it.
PS - putting the carseat behind the passenger seat is better than the middle for ease of getting the baby in/out, and with rear-facing seats, it's easier for my hand to touch my baby - the middle position is actually too close for me. I find the middle position is only nice (1) if there'll be 2 small people sitting in the back, too, or (2) on long trips when the baby can better enjoy looking out the front window with a front-facing seat, or (3) there'll be someone in the front passenger seat and the middle position is easier for them.
I wouldn't be so sure of that. A FWD car gets better traction b/c the engine sits over the wheels that drive, and that weight provides increased traction - probably due to increased friction with the road (don't know if there are studies on that). TCS does not increase traction - it just makes the best use of whatever traction is there by increasing the drive power of whichever wheel has traction. It can't create traction, which the fwd car does b/c of the engine placement. I would thing a fwd car would generally be better than rwd w/ TCS.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
Best Regards,
Shipo
But in all honesty, this car is the only car that has out right left me and my TLS in the dust.
So I crossed enemy lines on Saturday just to get a taste of what this car feels like.
I went to the local BMW dealer and test the 545- with the sport package.
I was blown away, this car is fast and I mean fast on every aspect of the rev-band.
It was surprising to me that the dealer let me go on the test drive all by myself.I went there back in 99 when I was cross shopping the 3, TL and the Millennia and they wanted to put a traking device on the car
Anyway, I think it is out of my price range but who knows, in few years I might buy one used.
I love the 545i also... not even close to being an option for me.... due to finances, fuel mileage, desire to keep eating, etc...
If I had $50K-$60K to spend, though.. I think I'd still pick the 530i.. and eat at a five star restaurant once per month.. ;-)
I'm guessing for most people that buy the 545i, that isn't an either/or decision..
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Well, no, not really. Static weight distribution (ie. front/rear weight bias) and driving dynamics play a substantial part in winter driving as well.
Three examples (assuming two otherwise identical FWD and RWD cars driving in snowy conditions):
Acceleration: under light acceleration (ie. very little front to rear weight transfer), the FWD car, with its ~60/40 weight distribution will have more traction than the RWD car with its ~50/50 weight distribution. However, under stronger acceleration, since weight transfers to the rear in such a situation, the front tires will lose traction whereas the RWD car will gain traction.
Around a curve: the lighter back end of the FWD car will come unglued before the heavier front end of the car under some circumstances, while in others (accelerating through a curve for instance), since the front tires are being asked to do double duty (accelerating and turning), they will break loose (and plow) before the back end. A RWD car with a good traction control system will be less prone to either of those two scenarios.
Braking: The FWD car, which already has a significant front end bias, will load up even more with the weight transfer of braking, allowing the back end to become very light and lose traction, and without the aid of TCS, could very well find said back end leading the front end down the road. The RWD car, given its better balance will be less susceptible to that situation as well.
Best Regards,
Shipo
Regardless, I just don't want to spend the money and time, at this point, to buy special tires and change them depending on the weather. I kept my FWD car so that I can leave the RWD car at home when necessary.
Now, let's keep in mind that not all Traction/Stability systems are created equal. I found the system in the Benz to be FAR more capable (and far more transparent) than the system in my 350Z. I'm confident that good tires on the Benz, with that system, would be much more suited to adverse weather than my Z with even some of the best tires.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
Best Regards,
Shipo
Winter tires are a marginal expense ( your summer tires will last longer because they are "resting" 1/2 the year ). It's a LOT cheaper than buying/maintaining/insuring two cars.
I don't understand this incredible aversion so many people have to winter tires. If you live in a snowy area it's a better safety investment than FWD, AWD, airbags, stability control, and all the other things car companies have convinced us to spend money on.
dave
No thanks, it's way too hot and humid for my liking. In previous lives I've domiciled in California, Texas, Georgia and Virginia, and I had to move back up north for my health and sanity. ;-)
Best Regards,
Shipo
Maintenance costs nothing extra because the miles are split between the cars, so I'm still doing maintenance at the same pace if you count performing it half as much on twice the cars.
Insurance? Eh, not enough to worry about. $40 a month is worth it for me, especially when you figure in the added bonus of being able to keep a 2-seat sportscar on hand while still having the 4-seat sedan for familial duties (whereas many many people sacrifice the sportscar because they had a baby or whatever). EDIT ... OH, and a whole other set of tires and wheels would cost me probably nearly the same as 2 years of insurance on that 2nd car.
Notice I mentioned TIME and money. Obviously, money isn't the big issue with me. Time (and something else I forgot - garage storage space for those extra wheels/tires) is.
Anyway ... we're really WAY off topic. OH, the car I wound up NOT selling when I got my Z is my entry level performance sedan.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
Now, you don't have to justify wanting to have a extra 2 seat sports car to me, though. After all, we're not all driving $1000 old beaters.
In my relatively snowy area (68" this season so far), I'm leaning towards the TL (or TSX) over the G35 because of the FWD and arguably nicer interiors.
Take a look at our Rules of the Road linked at the top of the page. They should answer any question you might have about what can be linked and what cannot, but if you have further questions, feel free to drop me an email.