Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!

Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

194959799100435

Comments

  • bdr127bdr127 Member Posts: 950
    I was under the impression that the Cayenne was one of the least reliable SUVs out there....

    Porsche actually has one of the worst JD Power "Initial Quality" ratings, but also has one of the best "Dependability" ratings.... so go figure. :confuse:
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    I was talking about Porsches, not a VW SUV. That's not a Porsche. That's just an embarassingly ugly junk pile...just like the X3/X5.

    Porsche cars are scary reliable. Porsche trucks...well they're VWs so you can't expect much.
  • brightness04brightness04 Member Posts: 3,148
    Errr, sorry, not buying. The hill has to be both very steep and very slippery before it becomes an issue.

    hmm, if the is not very steep or very slippery, both AWD/RWD and All-Season/Winter-tires can handle it all, what's the point of the discussion again?? We are talking about extreme driving conditions where traction is an issue; otherwise, what's the point of the discussion?

    You're making this up as you go aren't you. Obviously you don't have any actual experience with buying and driving on winter tires.

    Thank you for letting me on the news. I have had experience with winter tires ever since my 1982 BMW 528e; it's been more than half a dozen cars since then for me.
  • wco81wco81 Member Posts: 590
    Yeah but if you have to do repairs, it probably costs a mint.

    Even maintenance is probably costly at Porsche specialist shops.
  • mariner7mariner7 Member Posts: 509
    Supposedly prototype to make its debut at NY auto show, with 330 hp. Host of questions:

    Its engine answers the volley from Lexus, but will it have the chassis to match 3? Infiniti fans certainly expect so, since it reportedly borrows a lot from upcoming GTR, and considering chassis of 5 and M are very closely matched.

    Most people don't need 330 horses, will there be a G25? What will Infiniti do to invigorate its V8 4.5 to put distance between its V6 and V8?

    There's an obvious power war between Lexus and Infiniti, will Acura have to ditch its SOHC to join the war? What will Audi and MB have to do with their V6's, or risk being left behind? BMW might just want to do its own thing with its I6.
  • proeproe Member Posts: 157
    Its engine answers the volley from Lexus, but will it have the chassis to match 3? Infiniti fans certainly expect so, since it reportedly borrows a lot from upcoming GTR, and considering chassis of 5 and M are very closely matched.

    I do not think Infiniti needs to answer to Lexus. Why does the chassis need to match 3?
    GT-R has a pretty good chassis of its own, and I do not think GT-T should be compared to 3. It should be compared to 911 or Z06. I think BMW 5 and M5 have the same chassis.

    Most people don't need 330 horses, will there be a G25? What will Infiniti do to invigorate its V8 4.5 to put distance between its V6 and V8?

    I do not think 330 is enough, I need 400 :P
    Too many cars and engines will hurt your sales because of the huge overhead.

    There's an obvious power war between Lexus and Infiniti, will Acura have to ditch its SOHC to join the war? What will Audi and MB have to do with their V6's, or risk being left behind? BMW might just want to do its own thing with its I6.

    I think the power war is among all the manufacturers not just between Lexus and Infiniti because it is the simplest way to give you cars more values without raising the price.
    Honda will only offer V8 when there is a need, and again, there is not a need not now or ever on the street.
    Audi A3 has a new V6, and MB E350 has a new V6 as well.
    BMW 3 series have a new V6 too. No one is left behind.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    BMW 3 series have a new V6 too.

    In fact it is a new inline 6 cylinder engine.

    Now I guess the most exciting new car worth waiting for will be the Infiniti G37?
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    do not think Infiniti needs to answer to Lexus. Why does the chassis need to match 3?

    Because right now the G35's chassic can't compare to the e90 or even e46. The chassis, high ride height and roughness of the VQ drove me to BMW. If Infiniti can fix those issues, I'll gladly come back to Nissan.


    I do not think 330 is enough, I need 400
    Too many cars and engines will hurt your sales because of the huge overhead.


    Tell that to BMW, MB, Lexus, and Audi. A 3.0 G35 with 240 hp would sell just fine. A 3.5 with 320 would be the next bump. Everybody but Acura and Infiniti exist using the dual engine sales model.
  • elliedogelliedog Member Posts: 3
    Having done much research and quite a few test drives, it's down to the line between Acura TL and Lexus ES 330, but the issue that might tip the balance is MPG and gasoline. Given that gas may well rise to back to post-Katrina levels, it seems to make more sense to go for Lexus - with slightly higher MPG and a regular gas consumer to boot, sacrificing the slightly greater responsiveness of the TL. Anyone care to weigh in on this?
  • goodegggoodegg Member Posts: 905
    You're worrying about gas prices in this price range of cars?
  • mwhittmwhitt Member Posts: 69
    i don't see any real difference on the MPG. maybe you see something different than what Edmunds is showing. so it comes down to premium vs regular, which is what $0.25 a gallon, if that. what are you saving, couple of hundred a year if you are 15K a year driver.

    if you're indifferent between the cars, go for the lower gas costs i guess. i wouldn't think that if you can lay out over $30k out the door for a car, that this savings would mean a whole heck of lot. i would say throw out the gas issue, and pick the car you like the most. seems like a non-starter to me.
  • saigonboi21saigonboi21 Member Posts: 150
    i dont get why you worry about gas prices. It's gone up for a while and people are still driving like crazy. The diff between 87 and 91 is $.20. that's only 2.50 diff for every 10 gallons. MPG also depends on how you drive as well. I can get better MPG in the TL than other ppl can in the ES. I think my 330i sucks a lot of gas but i dont complain. I mean if you're gonan spend 30-40k on a car, what's another $15 a month???
  • ggesqggesq Member Posts: 701
    elliedog,

    IMO, I really enjoyed test driving the ES and thought it was luxurious, solid, and a comfortable drive. That being said, yes you need only put in regular gasoline in the Lexus but to say that the Acura has only "slightly greater responsiveness" is a misstatement in my opinion. The TL although FWD, is in a different category than the ES as far as performance is concerned. BTW, are you prepared to spend 30,000-35,000 this year on a vehicle that is getting remodeled for 06?
  • jinvajinva Member Posts: 41
    I agree with all of the points made by those who commented before me. I would particularly emphasize that there is no "slightly greater responsiveness" of the TL over the ES. It's significantly greater responsiveness IMHO. If you are a very conservative driver and are more interested in a soft ride than handling, maybe the Lexus is the best choice for you.
  • starman98starman98 Member Posts: 119
    The ES is getting todally redesigned in Spring 2006 so be care of that...you will be buying a car ready to be redesigned soon.

    The new ones will have better power, more features, and hopefully a better sound system as the base in the ES was nothing great.
  • lmacmillmacmil Member Posts: 1,758
    You can put regular in your TL is you want and it may reduce its performance to ES330 levels. Mileage will probably drop also. I agree with the others, these cars are really not the same at all in terms of driving dynamics.
  • calidavecalidave Member Posts: 156
    Why is it that anytime we do a comparo discussion, we only compare NEW cars?

    Why not compare a brand new CTS with a thre-year old 7-series, for example? (or something that would cost about the same as the new CTS)

    I know some of us only want new. But some of us are in the "I have 40K to spend on a car and I want something cool and sporty and luxurious." We'd consider a used car.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Fire up a new discussion on that subject if it interests you! ;)
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Member Posts: 5,499
    Because the vast majority of people on this (& related) boards lease. The reasons vary, but the fact that being without warranty coverage on European cars in this price range makes sphincters tighten is very high on the hit parade (right behind not being able to actually afford the car in the first place).

    Me, I buy cars. I'm with you all the way.

    Buying an off-lease 36-39 month old car is a very good idea, but only for those with good long-term reliability that you don't think have been abused. Standard transmission cars with sport packages don't fall into that category, so it's not a good choice for me.
    '08 Acura TSX, '17 Subaru Forester
  • calidavecalidave Member Posts: 156
    Because the vast majority of people on this (& related) boards lease.

    is that true? I did not know that (seriously)

    Can't you get a BMW warranty on a used BMW?
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    Yes and no. You can get a BMW cpo but for a very high price. In the end I wouldn't trust an off-lease car mixed with it being German. Nobody else makes cars that are as engaging, imho, so the choices become few and far between.

    With my car i'll turn it in, then BMW will cpo it and resell the bucket of bolts to some poor guy. He'll drop 28-29k for a car that will fulfill his friends' negative comments on German cars.
  • wigglingwiggling Member Posts: 4
    Hi All,

    I'm thinking about either the IS250 AWD or a BMW 330xi. This is my first new car purchase in a long time. Went to the Lexus dealership for a test drive. I live in Chicago and there was a dusting of snow on the ground - nothing remotely serious.

    First strange thing: the guy coming in from his test drive remarks that the "driver assist" feature came on during his test drive. I didn't pay much attention. However, I was taking a pretty easy turn which would not have been a problem for my old Camry and the IS slipped on the turn causing the driver assist feature to kick in.

    This disturbed me. I don't think (though I have little experience) the 330xi would have done that. Could this just be a tire issue or is this driver assist system screwed up?

    Has anyone else experienced this with the IS, or has anyone driven the IS in snow? I like the features for price of the IS though it feels a little cramped, but I really liked the way the BMW drove. Felt very firm and controlled. However, it wasn't snowing when I test drove the BMW.

    I have never owned either a lexus or a bmw. Thanks for any help or experience!

    Wiggling
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Hi wiggling - welcome! Sounds like the discussion at this link is just what you need: 2006 BMW 3-Series vs. 2006 Lexus IS. Enjoy! :)
  • gordonwdgordonwd Member Posts: 337
    I have a 325i, not xi, in the Detroit area and so far have gotten along OK with the standard all-season tires through one winter (although this year is looking like it could be a lot worse!). Anyway, my impression is that the more recent "stability" controllers are getting more sensitive and tend to kick in with very little slippage. In some cases I guess this is good, but I find that I often prefer turning off the DSC and letting the car spin its wheels and fishtail a little bit.

    With the DSC on, I had a couple instances of pulling out from a slippery side street onto a main road, when the DSC kicked in and caused the car to feel like the engine just bogged down big-time, and there I was trying to get into a moving flow of traffic with no power! I'd prefer a little wheelspin and I'm fully capable of keeping it moving in the right direction. ;)

    So don't let the stability control's kicking in unfairly color your opinion of either car (even though the BMW is the obvious choice :) ).
  • bear1234bear1234 Member Posts: 1
    Sorry if this goes out of topic. But if your car
    has more than normal reliability issues and has been in repair shop many many times, would BMW still CPO it? In any case shouldn't its resell value reflect this fact?
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    I'd be willing to bet they'll cpo it. Who knows for certain.

    BTW, I'm not sure my reliability problems are viewed as problems by BMW. They don't feel the engine stutter is a problem as they simply refuse to fix it.

    The coils, sensors and blown light bulbs were all considered no big deal as they're known issues with e46s.

    The broken e-brake from the factory was probably viewed as a factory default.

    The electrical problems...well my dealer seems to think that it's not immediately repoducible and therefore not a problem either.
  • shankyshanky Member Posts: 36
    I tested my new 2006 Mercedes C-350 Luxury (w/o 4Matic) for mileage at a rock-steady 65 mph on level freeway (cruise controlled) and clocked an amazing 34.1 mpg within 22 miles! It may have exceeded this, but my commute destination had already arrived...But with my normally unhealthy driving habits (rush-centric), I am averaging about 24.5 mpg. The car is officially rated 20/29 on city/freeway. I have yet to complete 1 month of ownership.

    Does anyone have the real-world mpg numbers for comparable 3-series, G35 or IS350 ?
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    On my 330i 6 speed I get over 30 mpg on long freeway drives averaging 95-100 mph. I've never tried going 65 on the freeway so I can't say what sort of mileage my 330i would get at that speed.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    "On my 330i 6 speed I get over 30 mpg on long freeway drives averaging 95-100 mph. I've never tried going 65 on the freeway so I can't say what sort of mileage my 330i would get at that speed."

    blueguy - you crack me up.
  • calidavecalidave Member Posts: 156
    /direct/view/.efdc5b2/31

    I would be very interested in your folks' thoughts at this other thread: Best car (used or new) for $40,000

    the basic parameters are: sporty, nice freeway drive, seats 4, and gets at least 28 mpg. Since we're spending 40k, I probably don't need to specify "luxury" as most offerings at that price are going to have at least a minimum of luxury feel.

    2003 530
    Acura TL
    Cadillac CTS
    Saab 9-3
    BMW 3-series
    Honda Accord Hybrid
    Volvo V50
    Buick Lucerne
    Honday Odyssey
    Lexus RX400H
    1997 Porsche 911 Carrera (the kids will fit, really!)
    2002 BMW M3
    2004 Audi S4
    2006 Subaru STi (and treat yourself to a '97 Miata with the change!)
    2006 Volvo V70R (don't forget the 3rd row jumpseat option!)
    2006 Pontiac GTO (see the STi note above)
    2006 Sport sedan? BMW 330i
    2006 Luxo sedan? Mercedes-Benz C280
    01 or 02 Lexus LS430
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    Those cars are all over the map in terms of form/function. To me "best" is a new 2006 330i, followed by a 2006 STi. I don't buy used/pre-owned cars and I like sportier vehicles so many of them are automatically off the list. I can live without a lot of "so called" creature comforts.

    What are your thoughts?
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Member Posts: 5,499
    I posted the following (in error) several days ago in the Luxury Performance Sedans board. Apparently there are fewer manual transmission fans there than I thought. Anyway, FWIW:

    A couple of years ago I learned that my present car (Lincoln LS) was going to be cut adrift -- it's not discussed here, but six years ago, we thought it was going to be quite something. Oh well. . . It'll good for the forseeable future, but in the next 6-30 months, I'll probably pull the lanyard on something different.

    I have three requirements for my lux or "near-lux" car: 1) manual transmission, 2) rear-wheel drive, 3) must carry my bicycle inside (really big back seat, fold-down seatbacks or Avant style).

    Then I have a few "nice-to-haves": good long-term reliability (100-200K miles), decent fuel mileage & dealers that have a clue regarding sports sedans & proper service.

    The only three (lux or near-lux) vehicles on the planet that meet my requirements are the BMW 3, the BMW 5 and the G35 coupe. Given that, I compromised and added the IS250 (no fold-down seat), the A4 Avant (AWD) & the A3 (front-wheel drive) to my matrix. And, IMHO, the long-term reliability of both the BMW & Audi are suspect.

    I tend to avoid bells & whistles, but still like some amenities: sport suspension/wheels/tires, upgraded audio & xenons; Homelink is simple & useful. I appreciate being able to select just what I want (German), though the Infiniti premium package covers most of what I want without too much fluff. I looked at the 330, since the upgraded audio & xenons were standard, but the extra dollars beyond that were wasted on me. I guess I don't crave the extra horsepower & much of the rest I care about even less.

    Two that meet all my requirements (BMW 3 & G35 coupe) came within $40 of each other (sticker or invoice), set up the way I want. My present car has taught me that extra size and weight (as in the BMW 5) are of little value.

    Hmmm . . . I yap a lot about Asian reliability, but the reality is that I could have a 325 for the same price as a G35 (in country). Since I'm more than willing to do the ED thing, the 325 starts to look even better. Plus which, Electric Red is just about the most attractive (to me) colour in the class. And, finally, Shipo has helped me come to grips with the concept that owning a BMW doesn't necessarily cause one to become a poseur and/or lower life form.

    More later, as I review the last 3-5 pages of each of the brochures. Those tables are where the action is, for me -- the standard equipment & option packages take awhile to dissect & compare.

    Edit -- I may add the CTS to the mix. More research is required, though I'm very reluctant to try yet another American franchise used to dealing only with people who have been in the AARP at least 15 years.
    '08 Acura TSX, '17 Subaru Forester
  • calidavecalidave Member Posts: 156
    I'm really struggling. I'm going from a convertible that is fairly spartan. It has neither luxury nor sportiness, but I like it for what it was. Still, I don't want ANOTHER one!!

    We already have an SUV, which gets used for toting the teenagers and their friends to soccer, etc. and for getting us up to the mountains on occasion. So I need a daily commuter that I won't be embarassed to be seen getting out of in the corporate parking lot.

    Plus.....I simply can not drive a gas guzzler. Because of the job I have, it would be inappropriate for me to drive something that gets 15 mpg and LOOKS like it is getting 15 mpg. My current car passes the smell test (and does get 21 mpg). But a Mustang wouldn't. And I do get some grins, personally, by driving a fuel-efficient vehicle. But that's just me.

    My only experience buying used was not a great one. Yes, I ended up with a nicer car than I would have bought new. But I did end up with maintenance issues that I would have been less likely to have if I bought new.

    Will a 2003 5-series really be that likely to cause me problems?
  • calidavecalidave Member Posts: 156
    I appreciate your thoughts....but how does the CTS work for you? Does the rear set fold down? Can you really get a bike in there?

    I drove an SRX and I really liked it, but we chose a different SUV. I bet the CTS is a great ride. They also come in RED.

    But Euro delivery rocks! Why doesn't GM let us pick up cars at the Cadillac plant?!!!
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,891
    Since you are considering the A3, why not the V50?

    I believe it would be cheaper than most of the other cars on your list, too.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • calidavecalidave Member Posts: 156
    V50 is FWD
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Member Posts: 5,499
    A3 is FWD too, but I really enjoyed renting one in Europe once, but it was a 1.9 Tdi.

    The reality is the the A3 is out because no RWD and the A4 has AWD, but given where I live, I don't want to drag around the extra weight, all in the front. They're just in for the sake of completeness & curiousity -- what would one equipped the way I want cost? That sort of thing.

    I priced out the 2.8 litre Cad last night and will do the 3.6 next. I just don't see me setting myself up to be disappointed by another American car company that's pretending for awhile that it wants to build a competitive sport sedan. Eventually, the bean counters will probably win.
    '08 Acura TSX, '17 Subaru Forester
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,891
    as previous poster pointed out, the A3 is FWD, too, and that was on the original list.

    Both are available in AWD, as well.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • calidavecalidave Member Posts: 156
    it would be cool if you could rent a car for a month (for less than $50/day) to see if you liked it. Are there any businesses out there that work on that model?
    I guess there are places where you can rent just about any car you want for a week. Granted, it might not be equipped like you want, but if it has the engine, trans., setup that you want, you'd get a lot of good info. "Damn, I can't get my bike in this back seat"

    am sure you can rent a CTS for a few days to see if it is a poseur or the real thing
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Member Posts: 5,499
    I'm not sure the A3 is available in the U.S. as AWD. If so, Edmunds needs to revisit their Edmunds.com database.

    In any event, AWD is a barely acceptable alternate to RWD, with FWD totally unacceptable, in my world.
    '08 Acura TSX, '17 Subaru Forester
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Member Posts: 5,499
    I neglected to answer your earlier question regarding CTS fold-down rear seats. Yes, they are available, in the ~$400 range.

    What I've learned, given my need to store my bicycle inside the car, is that fold-down rear seats doesn't necessarily yield an acceptable result. In an effort to improve torsional rigidity, some of the cars that advertise (& deliver) fold-down rear seats don't mention that the resulting hole isn't rectangular and as wide as the interior. It's a rounded triangle that may (or may not) accept a bicycle, sans its front wheel.

    Renting the car to do a test isn't necessary. Clean up your bike and take it to the dealer. Try it. That's my plan.

    The G35 coupe, which is either #1 or #2 on my hit parade on any given day (relative to the 325), has one of these triangular pass-throughs. In due course, I'll determine whether it's adequate. And, of course, I need to check out the BMW in the same fashion, as well as the CTS.

    Any car that can't accomodate my bicycle inside the vehicle need not apply.
    '08 Acura TSX, '17 Subaru Forester
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    A3 3.2 is AWD. Edmunds is not very useful for new car facts. They have decent reviews and good forums but never trust any of the info on the site otherwise.

    http://audiusa.com/model_home/0,,bodyStyleId-13,00.html?bodystyle=a3sedan
  • 06ctsowner06ctsowner Member Posts: 1
    After reading so many educated posts here, I took the plunge and bought a '06 CTS with the bigger engine and lots of options. My salesperson said the only item I missed was the Nav. So far I have 70 miles on it and no problems...LOL.

    Just wanted to thank all you folks for your input and knowledge regarding this beautiful car. I'll keep you all informed of any issues that arise or hopefully just to share the great driving experience. :D
  • lovemyclklovemyclk Member Posts: 351
    Congrats! I assume when you say "bigger engine" that you are not referring to the CTS-V :) It is great that a legitimate competitor in this class comes from the U.S. New engine should offer more performance, but not familiar with CTS options... sport pkg? audio pkg? etc? What did you get?

    Also, what color? There is a beautiful metallic red that I've seen before...

    I grew up in a Caddy family... probably before your time. I can remember my Dad taking me with him each time he bought a new black Sedan DeVille - '56, '59, '64, '67, '70... then went off to college. He then bought Caddy Fleetwoods until he died. Never had the STS or CTS back then and wonder how he would have liked them.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Submitting corrections via the feedback form at the Help link on the left would just take a few seconds and would be very helpful to everyone who is looking for the information ...

    :)
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,891
    ok, wait, so when you said:
    Given that, I compromised and added the IS250 (no fold-down seat), the A4 Avant (AWD) & the A3 (front-wheel drive) to my matrix.

    you weren't serious?
    just want to clarify.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Member Posts: 5,499
    you weren't serious?
    just want to clarify.


    Well, I'm not entirely sure how serious any of this is, but my "hidden agenda" is to compare everything that even remotely interests me that can be had with a manual transmission.

    The pickings are getting slimmer.

    I threw the Audi offerings in because I thought they might finally be offered in the U.S. with the diesel. No joy. I even looked at an X3 because it has the manual option and lots of room for the bike.

    In any event, I've got a matrix involving nine vehicles, of which only a few are real contenders -- BMW 3's (325 & 330) & the G35 coupe.

    If I wished to be whipped about the head and shoulders and disappointed yet again by an American brand that thinks it wants to compete, I'd add the two CTSs to the mix. Not bl**dy likely, but still remotely possible.

    Front-wheel-drive Volvo? I don't think so.
    '08 Acura TSX, '17 Subaru Forester
  • dfc3dfc3 Member Posts: 87
    Read through your list (both original posting and subsequent). If you're including BMW 5-series and 3-series; why not the MB equivalents? You have the BMW 325/330 and the G35 coupe. I'd put the MB C280/C350 solidly in the same plane - and slightly more desirable for my needs (which are close to yours - but lacking the need for a bike to store - which might be a stickier point, the MB is smaller than either of the others).

    Just curious...
  • shankyshanky Member Posts: 36
    You are correct about the MB. My new C350 Luxury RWD is one amazing power machine, and super smooth and quick at hi-speed passings. Luv it! Sporty when I need it, and Luxurious at other times...I am getting addicted to those heady rushes...:) Handling is light/nimble yet has a solid feel, and the braking makes me confident for speeding...

    Negatives ? - it may be the most expensive in its category, but only about 0.5k more than similarly loaded 330i. Another thing against it may be that it looks absolutely the same as the much cheaper C230. Which may be why we do not see many C350s on the road, but mostly C230s...But I do not mind the cost so long as the performance satisfies me...
  • calidavecalidave Member Posts: 156
    how many miles on the DC C350?

    how many days in the shop?
Sign In or Register to comment.