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But I have to disagree with remark regarding inline six limitations.
Just take a look at inline 6 TVRs engines.
Here is the spec for some of them:
3.6L, 350bhp, torque-290 ft.lbs.
4L, 380bhp, torque-349 ft.lbs.
M
I was all excited about buying a BMW 325xi Touring. I test drove the 3 series touring many months ago and was amazed at how slugish it performed. My view was confirmed by two BMW325xiT reviews from National Post and a British Car magazine called "AutoCar". Both testers achieved 60mph in 8.0 seconds.
OUCH!!!!
In Canada they are currently selling a 06 BMW e90 323i with a 170 hp 2.5L engine . My 99 e46 BMW323i has 170 hp and accomplished 60mph in less than 8.0 seconds Unfortunately the current 06 e90 323is gets to 60mph in 8.0 seconds.
OUCH!!!
I know, I know you buy BMWs for their handling. But is such sluggish performance from a company like BMW acceptable? IMHO the answer is no.
_
1. BMW 3 series.
Price the 325xi to a comparable Mercecedes C240 or Audi A4 2.0 and you find best value for what it offers (especially with new maintenance program that effectively brings the price down a bit more and if you opt for leatherette in price comparison). I like Audi, but not discounted sufficiently for its poorer record in quality and lower resale value. Comparably equipped car is only slightly cheaper and not worth the savings. Audi and Mercedes don't have a single attribute over the 3 series in this category (though i prefer E o4 A6 to 5 series and S or A8 to 7-series).
2. Acura TL.
It is a blah car, but great quality, power and interior. No option pricing, reliable, reasonably stylish. G35 was "the" other car in this segment, but I can't see what the G35 has over the new TL and again, the TL is close in price so why go Inifiniti (If you love Infiniti beg, borrow and steal to get into the M35).
Volvo S60 - not comparable, underpowered, weaker quality, image, etc.
Saab 93 - nice, but a level under and comparable to a TSX.
Lexus I350 - not fun, cheap looking interior (to me), nothing compelling
Infiniti G35 - Buy the TL for same power and nicer quality (G35 coupe would be an exception for this rule if you are coupe person)
Audi A4- again, buy the 3 series for slightly more and make it back in service coverage, resale value and quality (also, interior is great quality, but seems dated). BMW now has a reasonably proficient 4wheel drive system so quatro less key.
Mercedes C- too expensive, too many cut corners. Buy the E used or go for the BMW.
Cadillac - not a bad car, but not compelling. Not cheap enough
Lincolen Zephyr - same price as ANY of the above and weaker than all of them.
Ummm, how about RWD vs. FWD. That's a big one in my book, big enough that if I had to choose between these two, I'd pick the Infiniti.
Best Regards,
Shipo
I live in a snow belt and drive a 328 in snow with traction control, but I have not been as impressed with the G35 in bad weather and at the limits. So I'd go TL though before the new one was out I might have gone G35x and had the best of both worlds (love that car, just don't like the interior quality).
Best Regards,
Shipo
Why would anyone give up almost 2 seconds 0-60 MPH, class leading interior space, Tractor like traction with the awd, rwd biased handling in normal traction situations and, luxury touches like keyless igntion, and reclining rear seating? That's why I drive the G35x
Sorry, I wasn't clear enough. I heard that BMW would need to fully redesign a block to make it 3.5 L instead of 3.0. the current 3.0 comes from successive evolutions from the original 2.5 to 2.8 then 3.0.
Should a 3.5 be redeveloped, the overall block length increase would compromise crash test ratings, so it seems 3.0 is a limitation difficult to overcome in this context.
If BMW want to switch to v6, increasing displacement will be easier, and this is what MB did.
but straight 6 have some advantages that V6 don't have (balance), so I prefer straight 6 myself.
Because of this, BMW may directly switch to V8 for their top end.
Ummm, no. The previous generation of I6 from BMW was as you describe, however, the I6 that is in the 2006 (and later) E60s and all E90s is an all new design that came out of the gates at three liters. I've never known BMW to design a new engine that didn't have the ability to grow the displacement.
Best Regards,
Shipo
Your response:
You're splitting hairs. Inflated MSRP implies a value judgement. Buying a car is a value judgment, the price is the price. It costs what it costs to you the consumer.
No personal value judgement was implied in my use of the term "inflated MSRP" at all. "Inflated MSRP" means an MSRP that is far higher than actual market clearing price. For example:
MB E class with $5-7k manufacturer lease incentive, that indicates an inflated MSRP.
Another example:
both TL and 9-5 sell for about $31-32k in the market place; they are by definition comparable in "value." Yet, one of them has an MSRP of $39k, whereas the other is around $34k. The $5k difference is sheer "inflated MSRP" that does not accrue at all in terms of "value." In more than half of the 50 states, the inflated MSRP gets taxed every year of a car's ownership.
Can we move on?
We will see if it works out this way
but why don't BMW add a turbo like they did for the earliest 745? I am dreaming of this six in line with a compressor or a turbo with minimum lag. If BMW added some direct fuel injection, they could even improve economy like Volkswagen did for the 2.0 TFSI.
300 HP, 280 LBF, this would make an interesting offer. Alpina does this but we need to go for the 4.4 V8 (516LBF, a real delight on 5 or 7series)
Granted the tires are a huge issue and you can go so far as test {track }conditions to forgive the big disparity. That's why it's best to drive cars for yourself and make your own judgments.
One other point is that IMO Audi has a key ingredient that BMW lacks. That being a certain driver friendly something where you can drive an Audi all day and never get beat up. They are much more forgiving as a GT car IMO
Also sosk, I live in Houston where we probably get more rain but much less ice. A good set of tires for the appropriate season will go a long ways on any car. That, with adjusting driving habits when the weather turns foul should keep you safe
Finally, I recommend driving as many of the cars in your "needs" category as possible to see which one fits you best. I would recommend a Japanese brand if you intend to keep the car for 13 years as you did your last one.
Good luck and let us know how you do.
Non-stop distance reading : 123 miles
Avg speed reading : 70 mpg (includes traffic slowdowns, and mostly in the 80's, and a few rushes to the 100s)
MPG reading: 31.6
Road type: About 4-5 miles of uphill driving, rest was flat
The car continues to amaze me!
And in my opinion I'd rather own the 330.
"M37" and "FX37" were trademarked on the same date.
This pretty much confirms that the rumored 3.7L "FZ" engine is going into the G, M, and FX. And that they will change their moniker to correctly reflect the size of the engine.
Check it out.
http://www.uspto.gov/index.html
Read the article, decide which characteristics you place a high value on, and then see which car wins for you.
If you want high feature content for the dollar and a powerful motor, the Lexus is obviously going to rate higher for you.
If you value chassis dynamics and control feedback/response, (and an MT) the BMW is going to rate higher.
What are you looking for?
This engine will have no noticeable power-lag and 0-60 time in the 330 will be faster by 0.5 seconds.
Looks like BMW has done it again!
http://www.businessweek.com/autos/content/jan2006/bw20060110_763805.htm
I am cutting and pasting her comments below:
______________________________________
1st place: 330i 6-speed: Overall, most fun to drive of the 4 door sedans. Not a fan of I drive, but it was not as bad as I had read. Unfortunately, expensive options and not much price negotiation.
2nd place: TL 6-speed: Biggest positive surprise. Handling was better than expected, considering front wheel drive. Nice 6-speed that was crisper shifting than even the 330i. Some torque steer. Sporty, clean interior, nice amenities. Very reasonably priced and no BS option list.
3rd Place: G35 Coupe 6-speed. Sedan exterior is a turnoff. Coupe is much nicer outside, but still a dissapointment inside. Powerful engine, but noisy and unrefined at high rpms compared to the 330i and TL. Close to BMW relative to steering / handling. No rear seat headroom.
4th Place: Lexus IS350. Biggest negative surprise. No manual transmission? Not even an SMG option? What was Lexus thinking? Salesman claimed that I was "exactly" the target market they were shooting for. Yeah, right. Girls can't drive sticks. I said it looked to me like the "target market" was testosterone laden guys that have a lead foot and no other driving skills. Too bad. Nice powerful engine, decent handling, best interior, but thanks to automatic transmission, least fun car to drive.
5th Place: A4 3.2. Attractive but a little bland exterior. Nice interior. Performance was ho-hum. Felt very heavy. Reliability an issue.
6th Place: C350. Everything 2-3 rungs below the 330i, plus terrible reliability record.
I'll either go for the 330i or, perhaps, the TL with the idea that if things go well financially, I might go for the new M3 in a couple of years. What do you think?
______________________________________
There you have it from one prospecitve buyer who is considerign the entire compact sports sedan market.
I especially enjoyed the Lexus "I" remarks.
M
The show dates are April 14 through the 23rd.
Possibly why you are not called upon by the auto enthusiast press to offer your expertise to the public. This is a fairly pathetic comment that, in combination with the rest of your "opinion", holds little value for anyone looking for a realistic review of the distinctions of these fine cars.
The BMW, Lexus, Acura, MB, et al are all fine examples of their maker's take on the small sporty sedan category. They may have a similar mission and respective execution toward that mission may be similar in some respects, but all are not viewed the same by each consumer due to unique qualities of the driving and ownership experinece important to each individual.
My guess is that your perceptions may most likely NOT be widely agreed upon... maybe I'm wrong.
I'm looking forward to buying one of those small cheap (in this case, red) compacts -- a 325i. You probably don't care, but most of the rest of the world does quite nicely with smaller cars with smaller engines. I guess you come from the "size matters" school of thought. Let's hear it for "presence."
Another board has put forth the notion that any vehicle with less than 250 hp has no business claiming to be luxury in any shape, manner, or form. Others of us think differently.
Handling matters. Fuel mileage matters. Many things matter that American marketing tends to ignore. You are entitled to your opinion, but so are the rest of us.
Just because you don't like the dimensions and rear-end styling of the new 3-series, it doesn't mean that it's not a "real competitor" to the G35.....
How about the fact that a premium pack 330i is $4500 more than a premium pack G35?
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
I was actually looking forward to checking out the new 3-series and I was expressing my dissapointment and I thought I was being respectful and conveying my thoughts about my decision process as other posters are talking about theirs. I was and am really somewhat upset that I find no other alternatives attractive at this time. I did not say that there were no alternatives for others, only that there are none for ME at this time who wants a 6MT sedan (not a coupe), in the right size for me (not too big, not too small), etc. If price were no object and a coupe was desired my First Choice would be an M3 and that is just the right size for that type of car. If you don't want to hear others comparisons/opinions than what's the point of discussing them? I don't think I criticized anyone elses opinion and did not expect to get flamed for apparently having the "wrong" opinion. I have been very happy with my choice of a G35 and would not want it to be smaller (or bigger) but I do need to decide on a replacement for it.
Unfortunately, some people don't like it when their opinion of which is the "best" car isn't shared by everyone. That's why all these Edmunds forums continue to rehash the same discussions over and over. And probably few, if any, opinions have been changed.
qbrozen: That might be your reasoning, but the original poster (robertr) never gave that as a reason. I highly suggest reading through his post.
Good safety review for BMW and its new 3-series....
http://www.iihs.org/ratings/ratingsbyseries.aspx?id=458
I wish I could decide whether or not a car was worthy of my hard-earned money based simply on seeing one in a lot. Sure would save me a lot of time -- then again, I like test driving new cars. I usually have to test drive them before I can dismiss them (except when they don't over a manual, then it's a slam-dunk).
P.S.: For the record, I think the new 3 is too big. Bring back the E30!