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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans



  • ggesqggesq Posts: 701
    "And I hope the headlamp craze gets toned down some day before they overtake the whole car. Some day the size of the lens will exceed the hood width! And some are long too --- too long!"

    Personally, I find the new CTS to be in a different league (better- interior and exterior) looks wise to the previous model. That said, the headlamps on the new CTS are an example of what you speak of.

    RE: Azera and Sonata- Any vote for it being included with entry luxury? Is it there yet?
  • m1miatam1miata Posts: 4,556
    This is the year 2007, I assume that 95% or more luxury cars come with some form of automatic transmission in North America. I doubt it has to do with the age of the buyer, however it could in a way. After doing the millionth shift, in tons of traffic, people that have used a clutch may now be willing to go the comfort route. Times do change. The traffic is tighter and the stop signs more numerous. The auto tranny has come a long way for performance. It is true that the old clutch can be entertaining, but I can see the huge benefits of an automatic in the daily drive -- its all good!
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,622
    Yes, and even though AARP keeps trying to get me signed up, I refuse to give in!

    Live longer and stronger is my motto. And they switched to automatics in the fastest cars on earth a long time ago. :P
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    Is it me or the center stack looks real cheap?

    I know someone's going reply simply: It is you...
  • What is that little knob/joystick behind the shifter where an American/Japanese car would have a cupholder?
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    That's the control for the screen I think, similar to BMW's idrive.

    Why can't those manufactures just stick with the simple touch-screen. Acura used to have a very good touch screen nav system but I think they have started to use those joystick/knob type of control as well.
  • ivan_99ivan_99 Posts: 1,681
    I kinda like it...looks very clean.

    Perhaps it's the lack of wood.
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 11,574
    The new C-Class looks like it was made by putting the new S-Class in the horizontal part of the crusher and took the car out before the top was crushed.

    Could the Ultimate ELLPS be a used car? Not just any used car, but a '97-'98 BMW E36 M3 4 door. I saw 2 great examples listed for sale in ROUNDEL (BMWCCA's monthly magazine).

    1998 M3 Sedan: Black/Grey, 83K miles, 5-speed $15,000

    Then another one posted by some nut-job: 1998 M3 Sedan: White/Black 13K miles $30,000

    Personally I'd take the car with 83K miles on it!

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2015 Infiniti Q40 AWD, 2017 Honda Pilot Touring AWD

  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,738
    Nasty hood. Bug, bulging ugly SUV grille.

    Looks so WRONG compared to the current model.
  • Nothing is wrong with the grille in my opinion. It is a normal-sized grille.
    Long ago grilles used to define a car.
    Now everybody calls them "SUV" grilles (whatever that means).
    A grille is a grille.
    What else is there to put in front there?

    Image Hosted by

    I hope we can return to the days of truly daring design and leave behind the Consumer Reports-inspired resale-value madness that has sent all of us into a beige and silver hell. :shades:
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    I'd take that one over anything currently produced by GM. And I don't think there is a direct correlation between grill design and resale value. More of a correlation between grills attached to a POS and ones attached to well engineered, well built cars.

    P.S. Is this a rendering of the first reported incident of road rage?
  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Posts: 1,230
    Nasty hood. Bug, bulging ugly SUV grille.

    Blame the new "pedestrian-friendly" crash standards for the grille and hood. I like it, though...
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,622
    I about 10 -20 years, BMW will start to opine about the E36 design (which is the one I like the best) and resurrect it just as F/GM/DCX is currently doing with the muscle cars from the glory years.

    Interesting how these cars not only retained their value but have increased exponentially according to the condition. I knew I should have put some of these classics on moth balls in the 70's! Just like all of those Mickey Mantle, etc. cards my Mom threw away!

    But it's not to late for those E36's! Now's the time to invest.

  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    That picture might be the truth back in the 50's but let me give you the current day version (sorry for the crappy 10 minutes photoshop job using Paint but you get the idea):

  • "But it's not to late for those E36's! Now's the time to invest."

    Stop fantasizing and pull out your financial calculator.

    I was an original owner of one of the roughly 460 BMW M1's produced in the late 1970's. Paid the godly sum of $65,000+/- in 1979. Decided to sell in 1982. My brother said I was nuts, that I should keep the car and it would go up in value. Indeed it did, and if I had taken the time to properly store it in a climate and humidity controlled environment, I could probably get $125,000 for it today, maybe even $200,000 from a crazy collector with more money than brains.

    The $55,000 I sold it for in 1982 went into a conservative investment fund. My wife and I were just getting married and we agreed that, assuming we didn't need to use the money for a house, kids, etc., I could "splurge" some day on another sports car. Fortunately, we've done pretty well and I've been able to have my cake and eat it too. But we kept that money sequestered from our other funds and the conservative investment has returned an average of 14.5% annually. Not exactly hedge fund type returns, but enough to grow that $55,000 into $1,432,000+/- (pre-tax) as of December 31.

    I cringe when I hear of people speaking of cars as investments. Yes, there are some collectables in which you could do pretty well if you were at the right place, at the right time, and knew exactly what was a good deal or not. My brother did make a very nice return on a Ferrari Dino. The guy that bought it from him in the late 1980's did not.

    An E36 as an investment? You have got to be out of your mind.
  • Hehe...

    No what I meant is that obsession with resale value has pushed everyone toward the lowest common styling denominator.
    Nobody wants to take risks, because they want to appeal to the widest cross section of people as possible.

    So, they will refuse to buy a car with a red interior--or the lovely browns that BMW has--simply because it may not sell as well as one with beige.
  • frisconickfrisconick Posts: 1,275
    The front of that Mercedes looks similar to the TL :confuse:
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 70,273
    It looks like it has the transplanted "eyebrows" from a BMW....

    But, overall.. I like it. C-Class sedans haven't exactly been great looking cars, in general. I think this one is better.


    Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    I'll never understand why folks buy cars for the individual that comes after them. Who cares? Buy the derned car configured the way you want it and let the second owner hang. I cannot tell you how many times I've been told by sales folks "Oh, you don't really want to order that car with a manual transmission."

    "Ummm, I sure as hell do."

    "No you don't, it will destroy the resale value of your car."

    "So? I have to drive the car for three or four years first, and I damn sure want to enjoy it to its fullest in the meantime.

    Best Regards,
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    Amen, Shipo.

    And there is poetic justice on the manual transmission example. I was never actually discouraged from buying a 2004 Acura TL 6-speed, even though 80%+ of TL's were automatics. But now that for the 2007's you have to jump to the TL-S to get a 6-speed, my dealer called me with an offer to buy my car for cash (i.e. not a trade in) at 100% full KBB trade in value. They would not make that same offer for an automatic, since they are in ample supply.
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,622 more fantasy..we will wait to see the redesign in the future and use some of the investment return to buy a new one (M136), say 20 years from now.

    Thanks for waking me up!

  • m1miatam1miata Posts: 4,556
    Yes, more exciting designs, and less of the chop top look. The Chrysler and Dodge chop top may have been a bold move, but do ALL cars now have to look the same? I have seen cars these days with so tall of a door window sill that the drivers chin wasn't in view. It is like the eyes are barely above the door. High dashboards are a turn-off too. Makes people feel like they are way too short for the vehicle. As for Mercedes designs, I think the main issue is one of convincing people the car is reliable.
  • frisconickfrisconick Posts: 1,275
    As for Mercedes designs, I think the main issue is one of convincing people the car is reliable.

    I agree 100%, I think Mercedes makes very pretty cars, but I wouldn't buy due to reliability problmes. :cry:
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Forest Lakes, AZPosts: 4,141
    . . .and leave behind the Consumer Reports-inspired resale-value madness that has sent all of us into a beige and silver hell.

    Very well put.

    The least common denominator is alive and well.
  • Hello, Everyone -

    I in a quandary! I'll soon be purchasing either a 06/07 MB C280 or 06/07 Volvo S60. My research here on Edmunds and other places tell me that neither is the perfect car. Reliability is pretty important to me, as is decent gas mileage, but I also want a car I LIKE. Is that too much to ask?? (I already know the answer to that - "yes.") So, both cars are around the same sales $$, same depreciation, etc. The MB I'll feel a little pretentious in (I can get over it.) But, will the S60 turbo cause me suffering in the long run (maintenance)? :sick: I keep my cars ~8-10 yrs.
    Wathca think?
  • frisconickfrisconick Posts: 1,275
    If you keep cars that long you should consider a Japanese car IMHO. I bought a TL and couldn't be more pleased. :shades:
  • Gotta agree. go with a lexus, acura or infiniti if you want to keep the car for 8 years.
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,622
    Lexus or not even go there with Volvo or MB.
  • m1miatam1miata Posts: 4,556
    How about a Cadillac CTS or a BMW (buying extended service and warranty to your 8-10 years) ?
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