but one fear appears to be coming true: The unmistakable whiff of burning oil last night....my luck. 1500 miles out of warranty, and now the crank seal wants to go. Hard to say for sure, and in this deluge I won't be able to properly check for at least a few more days. Grrrrrrr....
I have a 2000 OB Limited with 83000 highway miles and three years of payments left. I am reading the posts and wondering if a few of you savvy Subaru owners could offer some suggestions. Sell now or ride it out? Thanks, Annie
I just noticed I'm at 38K on Bosch platinum plugs in my '95 Outback 2.2L. Is there a mileage beyond the normal 30K plug replacement recommended that one can expect to go with platinum plugs in a 2.2L? Second question, are any noncompetition drivers doing spark plug "indexing"? THX Roy
Why not see if Subaru will give you a break since your car is only 1500 miles out of warranty, they may be willing to do this as a goodwill gesture, especially since the seals are a known problem.
Annie- A 2000 with 83k... Yikes (and here I thought I had high mileage). My guess is that with three years of payments left you probably have very little equity in it so you'd only break even if you sold it and then would have to go way back into debt to purchase another vehicle. If it were me, I'd hold on to it until it was at least paid off. If you've been taking care of it, your Subaru should easily go another 83k.
In the future, if you expect to continue putting that many miles on your car, you might want to consider a 2-3 year-old used car with low mileage for your next purchase. That way a good portion of the depreciation has already occurred but the car should still be reliable and have many good miles left in it. (Just my $.02)
My 2001 Outback, 2.5 L 4 cyl shakes when being driven - worst at 30-45 MPH when not accelerating. This started when it was new, and two years later at 18K miles is getting worse. It feels like the car is "bucking". Five trips to two dealers: #1 said your Outback won't run on regular; #2 said all Subarus have a rough ride; #3 said they couldn't feel anything unusual and "the computer doesn't show a problem"; #4 the problem went away when district rep and Service Manager were available; #5 said there is a service directive that blames this on a locking pin in the transmission and there's nothing they can do for it. It is not wheel balance or rotors. It is not gas (I keep a log of brand and grade used) It isn't oxygenated gas (a problem I've had before), because I added a slug of drygas with no apparent effect. It feels like the timing is being changed, causing hesitation, or that the transmission is shifting when it shouldn't. If a locking pin is stuck, why would this happen every few seconds or minutes, and not while accelerating? An acquaintance of mine got rid of a Legacy sedan because of its "rough ride" on smooth roads that gave him back aches. My wife has the same problem - the shaking can ruin your back. Sorry for the length of this. Any suggestions?
"It feels like the timing is being changed, causing hesitation...." (!) See my post #861. Juice, I've tried resetting the ecu - problem returns in a day or two. Thanx
'02 Forester has the same burning smell problem. The dealer told me that it was due to the materials the transportation dept. was using on the roads and it was hitting the exhaust and that was causing the smell. Also, could be hitting the catalytic converter, with the same results. How come our other two vehicles (not Subes) don't have the same problem? "They don't know". I'm not buying it. 26,000 miles and this vehicle has been through two computer replacements, three computer "resets", 1 wheel bearing replacement and brake and transmission issues. Of course, most things don't exist when the dealer has it. I LOVED my '98, HATE this one. Do I DARE go for an '03?
Selling it used, it'll be hard to find a buyer looking for a 2000 model with that many miles.
You know that they're highway miles and it's likely running well. With your type of use it'll probably last a lot longer.
If an ECU reset helps temporarily, it's gotta be the ECU, then. Talk to your dealer about it, I've heard they can even re-program or swap it out. That might be affecting both of you.
Subies coming from Japan have more undercoating from the factory because they know they'll make a trip across the Pacific. If your other Soobs were Foresters or Imprezas, that's not it, though.
You may have a slow coolant leak, that would explain the smell. Ask the dealer to check for that. Look at the head gaskets.
Awn, I had a burning oil smell on my '00 Outback w/30k miles. Read on the boards here about a front CV boot leaking on the manifold. Took it to the dealer, let them know about the smell, that I had had the smell since it was new, and to check the CV boot. They did the repair under warranty. Don't know if it's the same for the Forester, but it's worth a check.
Juice - you bring up a sore subject with me. I completely missed last week's blizzard (in France). So no Subie drive in the white and worst of all - left my poor wife to fend for herself. Future promise - any forecast with more that 10" and I cancel any travel plans!
Greg
P.S. I did leave her the OB, knowing it will take care of her and the kiddies.
I had my wheels aligned on my 99 Forester last month. Since then the left rear tire has begun to vibrate rather loudly. I didn't notice it at first, however, my passengers started to complain.
The noise appears to be caused by uneven wear of the tire. The outside of the tire is wearing out faster than the inside. There is about a 1/32" difference.
I took it back to the place where they did the alignment and of course they claimed that the alignment was good. They are now saying that it's the rear struts which are the cause of the problem.
He did the rear push-down test and although it does oscillate several times on the first push, successive pushes oscillate less and less. I can then hear this gas piston sound. Is this normal, or is the mechanic correct in his diagnosis. BTW, he quoted $600(!) for replacing the struts. I called the Subaru dealership and even they were cheaper ($450), but it's still expensive.
I was looking through old posts and noticed that bad rear wheel bearings was also common. Is there a way to diagnose this. I jacked up the car and the wheel appears to spin smoothly and has no play.
Had the car up at the alignment shop today so I took a closer look (FWIW, my camber in back was more negative than stock, but still well within spec as far as tire wear goes, so we left it. Around 1.4 degrees neg.)
So I had a look up front with a shop light. Bottoms of both heads are clean. So the greasiness is confined to the top of the passenger side head, and the area around the plugs. There was also greasiness around the oilpan seal, but who knows if it leaks or if someone was just extra sloppy? No appreciable drop in level, so I will just have it looked at during my next service.
loosh, I'd try a valvecover gasket then. they're cheap and you could easily replace it yourself. although you probably do want to wait until your next oil change and do it at that time.
if it still leaks after that, things can get expensive.
Not sure if your engine is the same, but on my '97 OB 2.5l DOHC on the passenger side there is a small leak on the top of the engine above the spark plugs:
It's not a problem on the drivers side, just the passenger, and it's pretty much limited to this area. Is this similar to your engine's leak? And, does anyone know exactly what this part is?
utahsteve-- that part definitely was not on my '99 2.5L SOHC. can you maybe remove the airbox and take a good shot of it front the side and as far back towards the firewall as possible?
It's too dark out right now, but that looks a hell of a lot like the stain pattern on my car. We might have a winner. I love the internet!! Did you fix it?
Sorry, I "borrowed" the camera from work to take the photos this afternoon, so I can't get better ones right now as I don't own a digital camera. Here's some bigger photos that may help with more detail and context (these are about 80K and larger than previously posted):
After staring at this and my Haynes manual for '90 thru '98 Legacy, I still have no idea what this thing is. There's an identical part on the drivers side of the block (not leaking). They connect somewhere to the aft of the throttle body, I think.
Lucien: My car looks like this right now, so no, unfortunately I haven't done anything to fix it yet. I just noticed it the other day, after cleaning off the engine. It seemed like an odd place for an oil stain, but that's what it seems like it is. I'm still hoping that we can figure out what that part is or does. I looked at the 2.5l SOHC in our new TS and there isn't anything like it on that engine.
I guess that's all I need to do, clean and watch. Like I'm watching my temp guage and coolant for head gasket problems It's obviously not leaking much. I'm not 100% sure it's oil (could it be old coolant residue?), although that's what it looks like. Interesting that Lucien has a similar pattern on his. Lucien, is yours the 2.5 DOHC? Your profile says 99 Legacy, but I'm not sure which engine that has. For what it's worth, I had the (very common for this engine) oil pump seal leak, coming from the bottom of the timing belt cover, and a small valve cover gasket leak from the drivers side of the engine.
A service guy I spoke to recently made it sound like the head gasket problem is almost inevitable, or at least very common, so I have my eye on that lately. With the exception of this worry, I love this car and it has treated me well.
The '99 still had the same DOHC engine. On Imprezas and Foresters, they had started using the SOHC Phase II, but not on Legacys.
I'm seeing more and more discussion about the head gasket issue. I gave a heads-up to Patti, but she's not back to work yet. Call 800-SUBARU3 because if they find a pattern they'll issue a TSB, something they have not done yet.
Juice - thanks for clarifying the engine type. I definitely would notify Subaru if the gasket goes on my engine. I'm hoping that it doesn't happen, but if it does hopefully I'll notice before any more serious and costly damage happens.
lharvey1: I'm not sure if it was a big problem during the warranty period, just a common problem with these engines that may appear after warranty is up. I have heard about it through Subaru service people, sales people, and of course online here and at other Subaru sites. My 97 has 93000 miles on it, well past the warranty period, but I will still let SOA hear about it if the head gasket blows.
On my 99 Forester with the Phase II engine, one of the head gaskets blew at 30K, under warranty repair. At 60K smell some oil burning and the antifreeze overflow bottle was empty, so I am keeping a close eye on it.
Is it bad form to post a link on this thread to a thread on nasioc? Cuz... if not there is a several page long thread about the gasket issue already archived, which maybe everyone here knows about already, but maybe not. I'm pretty new here so I'm just wondering. Also, the issue has been discussed in Subaru Problems here on Edmunds.
I also noticed that on nasioc's Legacy board Lucien posted about the "mystery" leaky part... Thanks Lucien Maybe someone over there knows what it is.
I saw your post over on nasioc, I do not know what that specific part is but it is obvious there is a gasket under it, and if there is a gasket it is to keep something from leaking out be it oil, antifreeze.
Lucien (and anyone else who cares): The part from post 6771 is part of the PCV system... an emissions thing. It brings fresh air from the air intake through the crankcase to scavenge vapors (unburnt hydrocarbons?) and route them back to the intake to get burned up. Evidently the residue is from the small amount of oil that is in the air circulating through the system, and so it's not really an oil leak, just looks like it. One can clean it off, or just leave it dirty... doesn't seem to matter.
Dennis: Thanks for posting the nasioc link, I guess that answers my question.
Once the weather warms up a bit, I will be using my new gadget (Motive Power Bleeder) to flush and fill my brake fluid. This "gadget" is similar to a pump type garden sprayer with a pressure gauge on it and the end mounts onto the Master Cylinder. I was wondering if anyone out here has any experience with this or something like it and would know what the recommended pressure would be for our Subies? I looked in both my Owners Manual (admittedly a long shot) and my Haynes Manual but neither specify "power flushing pressure" guidelines. The only thing the instructions say to do is to test for leaks at 10 psi and not to exceed 20 psi during actual use.
I may just go with 15 psi just to play it safe. My brake fluid choice is probably ATE SuperBlue. What do you suppose the capacity of the brake system is?
I don't have a good feel for this in terms of cars, but when hydraulic systems are tested for leaks in general, the test pressure is usually a little higher than the typical operating pressure. So, I would check to see what normal operating pressure is for the brake system and not go too far above that.
If they say to test for leaks at 10psi, that would already be pretty high in my opinion (again, lacking any real info about the brake system).
Just to clarify a little bit. The test for leaks was meant to be between the "gadget" and the Master Cylinder. Not to test for leaks in the break system and/or lines.
Well that sounds a bit more reasonable. I would definitely double check on the brake system's operating pressure, to be safe. Who knows, maybe it is something like 50 psi, in which case you'd be fine.
Comments
if you look at mine, energy = oil. ;-)
-Colin
I'm just about finished with my 60k service (spread over two months). Just need to replace the coolant and get the tires rotated.
Jim
Hard to say for sure, and in this deluge I won't be able to properly check for at least a few more days. Grrrrrrr....
Cheers Pat.
In the future, if you expect to continue putting that many miles on your car, you might want to consider a 2-3 year-old used car with low mileage for your next purchase. That way a good portion of the depreciation has already occurred but the car should still be reliable and have many good miles left in it. (Just my $.02)
-Frank P.
I didn't believe him but still waited until 55k to change them myself - confirming that they were plain ol' Champions. I installed NGK copper plugs.
I thought some phase 1 DOHC engines got platinum plugs because they were more difficult to change but went back to copper on the phase 2 SOHC.
Jim
...but the passenger side cylinder head is nice and greasy.
An acquaintance of mine got rid of a Legacy sedan because of its "rough ride" on smooth roads that gave him back aches. My wife has the same problem - the shaking can ruin your back. Sorry for the length of this. Any suggestions?
-Colin
http://cartalk.cars.com/Tools/lemon-states.pl
good luck
Juice, I've tried resetting the ecu - problem returns in a day or two. Thanx
George
Selling it used, it'll be hard to find a buyer looking for a 2000 model with that many miles.
You know that they're highway miles and it's likely running well. With your type of use it'll probably last a lot longer.
If an ECU reset helps temporarily, it's gotta be the ECU, then. Talk to your dealer about it, I've heard they can even re-program or swap it out. That might be affecting both of you.
Subies coming from Japan have more undercoating from the factory because they know they'll make a trip across the Pacific. If your other Soobs were Foresters or Imprezas, that's not it, though.
You may have a slow coolant leak, that would explain the smell. Ask the dealer to check for that. Look at the head gaskets.
-juice
-juice
I had a burning oil smell on my '00 Outback w/30k miles. Read on the boards here about a front CV boot leaking on the manifold. Took it to the dealer, let them know about the smell, that I had had the smell since it was new, and to check the CV boot. They did the repair under warranty. Don't know if it's the same for the Forester, but it's worth a check.
Greg
P.S. I did leave her the OB, knowing it will take care of her and the kiddies.
I had my wheels aligned on my 99 Forester last
month. Since then the left rear tire has begun to
vibrate rather loudly. I didn't notice
it at first, however, my passengers started
to complain.
The noise appears to be caused by uneven wear
of the tire. The outside of the tire is
wearing out faster than the inside. There is
about a 1/32" difference.
I took it back to the place where they did
the alignment and of course they claimed that
the alignment was good. They are now saying
that it's the rear struts which are the cause
of the problem.
He did the rear push-down test and although it
does oscillate several times on the first push,
successive pushes oscillate less and less.
I can then hear this gas piston sound. Is this
normal, or is the mechanic correct in his
diagnosis. BTW, he quoted $600(!) for replacing
the struts. I called the Subaru dealership and
even they were cheaper ($450), but it's still
expensive.
I was looking through old posts and noticed that
bad rear wheel bearings was also common. Is
there a way to diagnose this. I jacked up the
car and the wheel appears to spin smoothly
and has no play.
Thanks!
Ken
So I had a look up front with a shop light. Bottoms of both heads are clean. So the greasiness is confined to the top of the passenger side head, and the area around the plugs. There was also greasiness around the oilpan seal, but who knows if it leaks or if someone was just extra sloppy? No appreciable drop in level, so I will just have it looked at during my next service.
-juice
if it still leaks after that, things can get expensive.
-Colin
Did you check out the rack bushings while you were under there?
Ken
http://www.zztrailer.com/outback/engine/pside_1.jpg
http://www.zztrailer.com/outback/engine/close_p2.jpg
http://www.zztrailer.com/outback/engine/close_p3.jpg
It's not a problem on the drivers side, just the passenger, and it's pretty much limited to this area. Is this similar to your engine's leak? And, does anyone know exactly what this part is?
utahsteve
so far what I'd guess doesn't leak oil...
-Colin
Sorry, I "borrowed" the camera from work to take the photos this afternoon, so I can't get better ones right now as I don't own a digital camera. Here's some bigger photos that may help with more detail and context (these are about 80K and larger than previously posted):
http://www.zztrailer.com/outback/engine/psidebig.jpg
http://www.zztrailer.com/outback/engine/psidebg2.jpg
http://www.zztrailer.com/outback/engine/closupbg.jpg
After staring at this and my Haynes manual for '90 thru '98 Legacy, I still have no idea what this thing is. There's an identical part on the drivers side of the block (not leaking). They connect somewhere to the aft of the throttle body, I think.
Lucien:
My car looks like this right now, so no, unfortunately I haven't done anything to fix it yet. I just noticed it the other day, after cleaning off the engine. It seemed like an odd place for an oil stain, but that's what it seems like it is. I'm still hoping that we can figure out what that part is or does. I looked at the 2.5l SOHC in our new TS and there isn't anything like it on that engine.
Any suggestions?
Maybe clean the area and then keep an eye on it?
-juice
A service guy I spoke to recently made it sound like the head gasket problem is almost inevitable, or at least very common, so I have my eye on that lately. With the exception of this worry, I love this car and it has treated me well.
utahsteve
I'm seeing more and more discussion about the head gasket issue. I gave a heads-up to Patti, but she's not back to work yet. Call 800-SUBARU3 because if they find a pattern they'll issue a TSB, something they have not done yet.
-juice
warranty repair data ....
lharvey1: I'm not sure if it was a big problem during the warranty period, just a common problem with these engines that may appear after warranty is up. I have heard about it through Subaru service people, sales people, and of course online here and at other Subaru sites. My 97 has 93000 miles on it, well past the warranty period, but I will still let SOA hear about it if the head gasket blows.
-juice
Please list miles, engine side (left or right or both).
Greg
List the miles, engine side, year and model. See if we can track a pattern or find where it's more common.
-juice
I also noticed that on nasioc's Legacy board Lucien posted about the "mystery" leaky part... Thanks Lucien Maybe someone over there knows what it is.
utahsteve
Cheers Pat.
31733 mi.
left side
2000 Forester (EJ25 Phase II)
Leaky, not blown completely. Repaired under warranty. Free loaner. No problems since.
At the moment I still plan on a repeat Subaru purchase.
Ed
33K miles
Left gasket (leaky, not blown)
EJ25 Phase II
Wonderful repair job.
I too still plan another Subaru.
Greg
-Dennis
Dennis: Thanks for posting the nasioc link, I guess that answers my question.
utahsteve
external drivers side head gasket leak
miles - 47000 warranty repair
I may just go with 15 psi just to play it safe. My brake fluid choice is probably ATE SuperBlue. What do you suppose the capacity of the brake system is?
Thanks,
Alan
98 Outback Ltd
No idea about the brake fluid but hopefully Colin or Pat will chime in shortly...
-juice
If they say to test for leaks at 10psi, that would already be pretty high in my opinion (again, lacking any real info about the brake system).
Craig
More info at http://www.motiveproducts.com/
Colin? Pat?
Craig