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Lookout Ford, Dodge, Chevy: Here comes T150
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Comments
Sure, I read your post. Isn't all that underhood maintenance your doing yourself, like changing a timing belt for $20 (in your dreams), exactly the kind of needless hassle you accuse the domestic trucks of requiring? You bet it is! And for the other non-do-it-yourselfers, I think it would be fascinating to know just how much this unavoidable expense is going to cost them. Info not coming from you? No surprise really.
still idiots like pyrodex can't comprehend my choice of dodge , i've defended my choice , which i really shouldn't have , i WANT and NEED a 3/4 ton diesel , since toyota doesn't make one i'd be a bigger fool than you toyota lovers to buy one anyway .
pryodex your train of thought seems very limited , is that the effect of the riddlin you take ?
rwellbuam , i keep forgetting that only the toy owners are allowed to be rude on this thread , if you can't take it then don't dish it out , i wasn't really question your engineering expertise as much as you bragging about how long you've been running around with that mickey mouse repair , i hope you do better service to the people that pay your salary , and i hope your hang glider is put together better than the bubblegum and silly string you use to keep the old toy going
mviglianco1 .. that is not an important aspect of my life i added that toyota comment for people the likes of you , mean spirted and rude seem to be the way of the toyota flag wavers as i have seen here , so as i seem to be endlessly attacked from many i feel even though childish to return the same behavior that i am afforded by the toyota faithful, and thats a bet that i'd be happy to take that your rusted toy will outlast my new truck , is your rusted toy even still on the road , and do you put more than 20 miles a month on it ? thats the only way it will outlast my CUMMINS POWERED RAM . rwellbaum toots his 178,000 miles but you have to go to his profile to get the real story , engine number 2 and its held together with duct tape , i live in new hampshire and your trucks would not be on the road in the condition i expect they are in , no rust is allowed , period and thats a way of life with a toy truck
until i get bored with the childish behavior of the toyota faithful i will treat them like they treat me , respect is earned not commanded
You bought a truck with the wrong engine and I'm the idiot? I'll have to think about that one. Did the fact that you'd need to do some HEAVY towing and hauling escape you when you bought the 1/2 ton Ram. If so, how?
What the heck is "riddlin"? Is that some kind of secret Dodge language?
Andy,
You don't HAVE to take parts off...it just makes the job less messy.
Of course I am not expecting you to admit that this is bad design - after all its a Tundra.
as far as me being an idiot about truck choice my only fault was running my first purchase through my wife , this was done to keep some peace , but since i no longer allow her any input in choice of a vehicle which i will spend many enjoyable hours driving i'm buying what i wanted in the first place , but actually the 1/2 ton with the 360 is enough truck to do what i have put it through , but i want MORE !!!!! and more is the CUMMINS DIESEL and since only dodge has the CUMMINS i have but one choice , whether you like it or not , agree with it or not, its MY choice , it may not be the best choice, but it's MY choice , and like i don't fault you much for your choice , its your brand of blind loyalty that causes you to stand up for the TOYota , just because they built a few good vehicles , of course none come to mind , you feel that everything made by TOYota is excellent , if the EDSEL had a silly TOYota symbol on it you would back it to the hilt.
the big picture let me guess , all the automakers sell out to toyota since they are the best automaker period , after there is no more competition they re-release the T100 and the 88 tercel , and we all thank them for it ???
Where will yo find toyota trucks. Supermaket parking lots, yuppie driveways, and repair shops.
Seriously, if you need to do towing upward of 10K pounds of course the toy is not the right vehicle...the one to get is a 3/4 ton diesel, but unfortunately they dont make great daily drivers (though they are adequate at this). I have a Dodge ramcharger now and its been alright, but I needed to buy a new truck recently. My needs are pretty much occasional towing of my 5000-6000 pound boat rig. Otherwise, its for daily transportation.
The Dodge ram is an alright vehicle, but is dated, rough, questionably reliable, same engine as in my 87 ramcharger---simply behind the times (though I will admit that the duelly cummins is something of an exception).
The Ford Im sure is fine, how could a truck be a dog AND a best seller at the same time. But my previous ownership of a f150 in the past that spent more time in the shop than out prohibited me from buying one (who knows, maybe I am missing out..but if I bought one and it started having problems I would kick myself).
My second choice was chevy/gmc and the options, room, engine choices are great....but no fourth door yet, some nagging first year problems, and too long for the garage were major factors in my deciding against them---still a fine truck though.
Finally, I bought the Toyota because it will more than haul my boat with ease, has great performance (outrunning or equalling all in 0-60 and virtually the same towing capacity). The rear seat room is not great, but the ride, quiet interior, slightly smaller size, and projected reliability (as well as anticipated resale based on other toyota models) made it the best choice for me.
So there you go..toyota is the best for me (maybe not others).
606zpx
606zpx- Exellent post! Finally someone who bought a toyota because it fits his needs instead of toyota being the best thing since sliced bread. I happen to like toyota in general and wasn't so much disappointed in thier tundra as I was in the fact that It didn't fit my needs well enough to consider.
teagan- My grandfather thought that was old. You can do better. Or maybe that's your best,after all you did buy toyota.
I took my 7,000# boat, loaded the back of the truck completely full, and and took my wife and two teenage kids in back on a 1,000 mile vaction this past summer. There is no way I could have completed this trip in the tundra. Different uses require different vehicles. If I had to tow a fifth wheel I couln't consider what I drive now.
The problem is one of image, and is of Toyota's making. They produced a full size truck that was 7/8 of full size. Now this is a niche in the market I am sure - 606zpx is a case in point. The problem that the Tundra will always have is that it is going to come up short as a full size workhorse truck. For this reason it will never be a mainstay of the construction sites etc.
Lets face it we hear a lot about Tundra quality because that is the most easily perceived advantage over domestics. The Tundra doesn't measure up (literally or figuratively) in many other categories. That is not a problem, it was the way it was designed. What annoys people here (myself included) is when people won't acknowledge that simple fact.
Not ONE pro-Tundra person has ever said the Tundra is as big as a Silverado, F150, or a Ram. We have never said the Tundra's backseat is not smaller, too. We simply like the marvelous engine, refinement, quality build, and Toyota reliabilty. I don't understand what your problem is? I assume you feel the F150, Slverado, and Ram are "full-size" trucks. They are not all equal in size, however. Where, EXACTLY, does full-size begin? I have not found the official "full-size" specs listed anywhere. I am not the first poster to request this info...it's just that there has never been an answer. Your help will be appreciated.
Jcmdie,
The Tundra fits my needs just fine.
Wheelbase Length Width
Chevy : 143 227 79
Ford : 138 224 79
Dodge : 138 224 79
-----------------------------
Tindra: 128 217 73
difference -15 -10 -6
Use your eyes on this one now. Them tindras not the full sizer, its plain for all to see. Good luck on this one now!
rs petty - I am sorry I think I must be missing your point - 1/2 ton won't comparre with 3/4 - well no of course it won't. I think you are trying to suggest that most trucks at construction sites etc are larger than 1/2 ton - I don't disagree. My point was that of the smaller trucks you do see there virtually all will be F150, Ram 1500 or Sierra / Silverado 1500.
Next scene, Silverado towing away a house. Moral, a full house always beats three of a kind. Bob Seger strikes the chord, Silverado...The Truck.
Funny.
As far as the actual size of the truck, consumers will likely weigh those possible disadvantages against what is likely better handling (smaller wheel base equals easier turning ability). For me personally, I would rather have the larger cab size, but I'm very comfortable driving big pickups as every day drivers in heavy traffic.
It seems a little unfair to question the Tundras reliability and durability based it not having been around long enough and then in the same breath fault them for not having many trucks showing up at the construction sites or in the fleets. It seems to me that most fleet trucks are 3/4 and 1 ton trucks. The 1/2 tons get worked, but not as hard and there aren't as many of them on the site. If the Tundra proves it's durability and reliability over time, and Toyota offers fleets a comparable price, I'm sure you'll see more of them showing up at construction sites in the future.
Personally, I welcome Toyota to the full size pickup market. I hope the durability and reliability does prove to carry over to the pickups. I really hope that Toyota gets enough confidence with this foray into the 1/2 ton market to move into the 3/4 and 1 ton market. When there is more high quality competition, we benefit by getting better trucks from all of the manufacturers at better prices. The best thing that happened for pickup owners in the last 10 years or so was Dodge stepping it up several notches in the quality and design area, which forced Ford and GM to step it up. Look at how many changes have happened in the pickup market since Dodge introduced the new Ram.
And ANDY,
Please answer the same question. I am awaiting your response. Thanks.
Brutus, you make a good point concerning newness of Tundra for construction sites, time will tell I guess.
I wasn't knocking Tundra reliability, in fact my point was the same as yours - reliability must be proved over time. Unfortunately that is something that many Tundra owners refuse to accept saying that the Tundra must be reliable because all Toyotas are reliable. My point, maybe they are, but we don't know yet. This logic applies in any case. I jumped in a little while ago when someone attacked the Tundra collision ratings. I pointed out that they weren't yet available so wait and see. If I had followed the 'all Toyotas are reliable' logic my point would have been Tundras kill people in side impacts because Tacomas do. Anyway, I digress.
In terms of where Tundra fits in to the 'full size' picture - Brutus your definition is as good as any. A maxxed out Tundra - the ones with the 7000lb towing capacity and the V8 compares with the V8s in the big 3 1/2 tons (in fact the numbers maybe somewhat better). The problem is that is where Tundra ends - it compares with a low to medium equipped 1/2 ton. As noted and accepted, the Tundra is also noticeably smaller in terms of dimensions.
I guess a comparison would be between Ranger and Dakota. A well equipped Ranger can compete with a low to medium equipped Dakota, but that is as far as it goes. Dakota can do more. Would many people put Ranger and Dakota in the same category - no they serve different market sectors.
Just in case you are looking for a cap for your
Tundra and most manufacturers are selling T-100s
this is what I found for diminsions of the 2:
Tundra SR5 Access SB (Toyota website): 76.5" l X
61.2" w; T-100 SR5 SB (MS CarPoint) 76.1" l X 61.4" w. Don't really know how much difference that is when you try to fit one. The length difference is a little less than a 1/2 inch which is where any problem may occur. Sure wish SnugTop would make their Top Gun model for it!
Looks like that factory re-used that same bed from that T100 for them new tindras now. Seems I remember that factory sayin that T100 was the full size one too! Good luck on this one now!
Unfortunately various topics here at Edmunds have copious posts from people who do see the Tundra as direct competition - a view that corporate Toyota have also taken.
Look out S10 and Ranger, here comes T150
Many here try to argue that limited be a full sizer now. Even that factory calls that tindra the full sizer. We all saw this on that T100 a few years back, and look what happened to that one! Maybe in a few years, that factory will make another new one, and call it a full size now! Maybe it might even be a full sizer. But till then, the fact is the fact on the size of them limited ones. Good luck on this one now!
its great to see the toy dealer leave a little of the money here , but in the big picture most of the money goes overseas , they are not fooling anyone with an ounce of brains that its an american built truck , just because it assembled here with a hodge podge of parts from around the world , the bottom line is is a foreign manufacturer and the bulk of the profits go elsewhere ... , now i don't have a problem with it being foreign , i just don't have a use for it or any of them , they are small and tinny and i just refuse to own one , it may be a good truck for the yuppie that needs a truck that is nothing more than a motorized wheelbarrel , in fact we all can thank the yuppie for the prices we pay for trucks these days , but that a subject i care not to fight
and i'm clueless , i have worked on the mighty toys , they suck , period , thats my experience , and i have been researching the cummins for a possible purchase for 5 years , i'm not claiming to be an expert , but i try to pass on what i know when it comes to problems that are similar between the gas and diesel powered dodges , as you seem to do , i will take all your posts with a grain of salt
also in henpecked is how you chose to go thru life thats your call , i was happy before i met my wife and will find that happiness if we should go our seperate ways , maybe you should trade in that cummins for a tundra if its such a great truck , afterall it is a TOYOTA .,.. good day
This is Toyotas first step into the full-size market. They are testing the water. If the Tundra is successful, the next step will be more engine and axle ratio options, which will them give them more towing capacity. Toyota has proven that they can make good trucks. Just look at their SUVs. The Landcruiser consistently gets ranked at or near the top of every list I've seen. The Landcruiser isn't winning it's ranking by style points alone. It rates high with it's off-road performance. When it comes to luxury SUVs, the Lexus models also rank high.
The pickup market is much more unpredictable. Besides brand loyalty, there are more pickup owners who pride themselves on their "buy American" patriotism, so it's going to be a tougher market for a foreign manufacturer to crack. Since the Big 3 can't really claim their trucks to be "all American" made and manufactured, it's really more of a perceived patriotism in my opinion. Bet you if you go to the houses of some of those die-hard "buy American" people, you will find plenty of "Made in somewhere other than US" stickers on a good chunk of what they have, such as toys, furniture, electronic equipment, household appliances, and even clothes.
If Toyota is making a 1 ton dually 4x4 in 5-10 years when I'm shopping for my next truck, I'll take a good look.
pyrodex and brutus- The dakota load and tow ratings are nearly identical to some of the full size trucks, so does that make it full size. I don't think so. Dodge doesn't think so. They market it as mid size. Tundra is marketed as full size. There is no definition for full size. I guess a ranger can be a full size too or at least a full size jr. Point is the tundra is a fine truck I'm sure but much more comparable to a dakota than a F150.
and about my yuppy bashing:
i guess that one thing i can thank the yuppies for is how plushly appointed my new truck will be , but seriously i wish it wasn't , the automakers have gone with the car like ride in the pickups because of whining from yuppy types that its a rough ride ... get a car is a freakin' truck , it's a nice ride mind you but hey make it car like and as soon as you try to use it like a truck its gonna break , and i'm sure that when your lovely tundra is pulled in on the back of a ramp truck with mud to the roof pillars your lovely little warranty will probably be null and void , the service guy is gonna look at you and say , hey its a yuppy transport not an "ironman stewart wannabe" ... but i may be wrong , hit the car wash first and clean the mud out of the tailpipe ... lol
Andy,
Your Dakota is marketed as mid-size. However, it is noticeable smaller than my Tundra. Is Dodge lying to consumers? Your logic is ridiculous. MY Tundra will run circles around your Dodge(on road or off)...get over it!!
Rubluetoo,
How long you gonna get to stay around this time?
johnrr1,
Maybe you can make your next SUV the new Toyota which will be based on the Tundra platform. Are you drooling yet?