Acura TSX

ickes_mobile · October 2002

a 2.0l Euro model and a 2.4L JDM model. They said the JDM model was "floaty"...

yugoboy · October 2002

says that canada does not even get a chance of getting the tsx. I remember shopping around for my car about a year ago and wanting to get the acura integra sedan, when i questioned why i could not get integra sedan in canada, the salesman told me,"why would you want one when you can get and acura el!"

My response to the salesman was i would rather not drop 25k(taxes included) on a rebadged honda civic with leather seat's and a sunroof and 127hp engine!!

Now my concern about the tsx is that i notice on the canadian website that they offer an aero package on the el, trying to make the car more sporty and maybe shift attention away from the tsx!!! I dont know but i hope i am wrong and we get a chance at this car in the great white north!!!!!!

vtecinfused · October 2002

vtecinfused · October 2002

Any word on the engine? It'd be amazing if it had the NA Accord V6. And how much is it going to cost? B/C if it cost 2 or three thousand more than a V6 NA Accord it will either a)Bomb or b)Cannibalize the sales of the TL and to some extent the EL (in Canada).

robertsmx · October 2002

I doubt it will cost more than EXV6. IMO, TSX's stength will be its dynamics, feature content and appeal. I would not be surprised if it came with the following options...
TSX: 2.4/I4, 160 HP/161 lb.-ft (same as Accord)
TSX-S: 2.4/I4, 200 HP/172 lb.-ft (same engine as JDM Accord 24T/24TL/24S) mated to 5-speed Sport Shift or 6-speed manual.

And priced around $24-26K. Although I'm hoping for Type-S to have IMA mated to K24A, pumping about 220-240 HP,evenif it costs around $30K.

petpad · October 2002

yugo, you have a valid argument, as I also felt we were cheated out of the 4-door Integra too soon. My view on that situation is that the Integra sedan was a good bet in the USA but would have been a close competitor to the Accord in Canada, so they had to do something about it. Americans would never have gone for the EL but us Canadians, as we all know, spend less on cars due to less disposable income and basically, we're cheap pricks compared to Americans...! Ha Ha anyway that's my theory on the Canada-only EL, and US-only 4-door Integra. Now to get back to the TSX being available in Canada or not, my bet is that the 14 K gap between an EL Premium (24K CND) and a plain Jane TL (38K CND) is wide enough to slot a TSX from 26 to 32, depending on options. Since I usually buy used cars, I will probably trade my 92 Vigor for a 95 Legend (if I can find one!), but for those who like to splurge, the TSX should be nice. I will consider a TSX in 2006-07 or so when I can find a nice used one!

yugoboy · October 2002

I hope you are correct in your opinion that we will be getting the tsx, however i still have doubt, honda/acura seem's to pull alot of silly stunt's when it come's to the canadian market!!!!

But when it comes to price difference i have to disagree with you, a fully loaded civic errrrr i mean EL(premium model with aero package) comes out to a whopping 26,200 that is not including any taxes, we are almost talking $28000(when everything is said and done) for a friggin run of the mill 127hp civic, i think honda/acura would much rather keep selling this car to a bunch of chumps if they will keep buying them, than go through the trouble of bringing the tsx to the canadian market!!!I can only imagine what the margin's on the civic/EL are!!!!

On another note i really wish honda/acura still designed car's like the vigor and legend, they had some soul to them and purpose!!!!

ickes_mobile · October 2002

including new pricing info and some new pics...

http://www.honda.co.uk/accord/pricing.html

jchan2 · October 2002

Hmm. I appriciate that a 4 door RSX is coming out, but it looks a lot like the Honda Accord that's here now. Wonder what is going to be the differences. (price and warranty)

ickes_mobile · October 2002

just the European/Japanese model. The RSX is based on the Civic platform. As such, the TSX is not the same as a 4-door RSX. I wouldn't expect too many differences from the European/Japanses models as all of them are built in Japan and go on-sale in Spring 2003.

robertsmx · October 2002

I think JDM Accord is already on sale. In Europe it might be early next year. Perhaps Spring 2003 for us as TSX.

petpad · October 2002

yugo, you are right that once our #$%^&*(*&^#@ taxes are factored in, prep and all, the cost rises way up. And to say that the government get PST and GST everytime a car is sold, no matter how often a car changes hands. ONe car can change hands 6 or 7 times in its lifetime, and the fed get probably as much as the full value of the car in compounded taxes... grrr anyway, I'm starting to think also that Honda Canada may feel the TSX would be to expensive to bring to market here, if not only due to the higher bumber regulations, and also because it may play in the TL price territory.

yugoboy · October 2002

And one other astonishing fact is that the el is the number #1 selling car in the acura lineup in canada!!! Can you believe it, a rebadged econo honda civic is a luxury car makes number 1 seller, go figure!!!!!!! Hey maybe if you want to save some cash move to alberta, no pst, only gst!!!!

petpad · November 2002

Check this one :

http://thehollywoodextra.com/acura/acura.html

dudleyr · November 2002

Really hope sunroof is not standard as mentioned in the above link.

robertsmx · November 2002

I'll be surprised if it isn't.

hunter001 · November 2002

I would have liked it much better if it came with a small high revving i-VTEC DOHC V6 (2.8-3.0L) than the 4-banger that is envisaged. Thus it would have a decent amount of torque to back up the high rpm horsepower, unlike what we see from Honda's small 4-bangers with high horsepower figures but nothing usable in the lower rpm ranges. A lot of criticism is levelled against the engine in the Honda S2000, mainly because of the total deficiency of any usable torque (in the lower rpm ranges) to balance out the high-rpm horsepower figures. Keeping the engine constantly on the boil to extract every ounce of horsepower is nice once in a while, but soon gets old after a bit.

Later...AH

pat · November 2002

A lot of folks around the Town Hall seem to believe that website is nothing but photoshopped pix -- FWIW.

dudleyr · November 2002

I guess it makes sense to have a sunroof on all Acuras. By the time most people have enough money to buy one they are older and have started to shrink, so they won't be bothered by the lack of headroom. ; ^ )

petpad · November 2002

Interseting you mention this, because someone else at HA.net said the same. I couldn't have known this anyway - but nevertheless, who cares really - that red TSX , or even if it was a European Honda "doctored" with an Acura badge, looks good enough to make me look forward to real thing...no more no less. Who really gives a damn about "hollywoodextra" anyway...that's true for most of what we find on the internet anyway! Hmmmm... maybe I'll try to put a BMW logo on my Vigor with photoshop and call it a new BMW Viggen... Ha Ha ...you think anyone will buy that? Ha Ha ...

diploid · November 2002

Vince's page has a lot of photoshopped pic. However, he's been correct with some of them in the past.

The pic of the North American red Accord coupe was actually on his site before Honda even released the pic to any other publications. And if you search around, there's a pic of the "redesigned" Toyota Sienna minivan. It'll be interesting to see what the new Toyota Sienna looks like when it's finally unveiled sometimes next year.

However, I do know for a fact that that TSX pic is fake (I even have the original saved on my hard drive), but should the Euro Accord arrive here as the TSX, I wouldn't be surprised if Vince's photoshopped pic is identical.

venus537 · November 2002

the picture from the rear indicates to me that these pics are indeed fake. the current rear decklid is designed for the wider license plates that are in Europe. the rear decklid as is would look silly with our license plates. it's way too big of an area.

diploid · November 2002

Honda will most likely change that when the Euro Accord comes as the TSX. I hear they're going to work on the taillights as well as the interior.

With the exception of the MDX and RL, all Acuras now have their license plate housings in the bumper. It is part of the new brand look (5-point grille, crease running down a "V" hood, no side molding). Once the RL and NSX are updated, those things that I've mentioned should be seen on every Acura.

petpad · November 2002

Now this is one example of Acura learning from its mistakes. If you all recall, the Legend and Vigor had their licence plate housing in the bumper, allowing a nice clean look in the back. When they introduced the 96 TL and the 96 RL, both had their licence plates embedded in the trunk lid - a monstrosity if you ask me (for ANY car, for that matter). Thats one of my main beefs against the RL - a car which is a little bit underpowered perhaps but otherwise a fine and good looking machine.

ickes_mobile · November 2002

I've seen pics of the Accord with a North American style license plate within the space between the taillights. As such, it may not be necessary to amend the rear end to make accommodation.

robertsmx · November 2002

Most Acuras (including Integra/RSX, all generation) have had license plates on the rear bumper. Only RL and MDX are the exceptions.
1998-02 Accord Coupe (not sedan) had it on the bumper, as does S2000.

I believe that will be one of the things that will change when JDM Accord is dressed up as Acura TSX. The plates will find some place on the rear bumper.

ickes_mobile · November 2002

It's still possible that the NA car will have a different trunk/bumper, maybe to meet crash regs, but its not necessary.

diploid · November 2002

It's possible, but seeing how Acura is adamant in moving forward with having all their cars named alphanumerically, it should follow that all their cars will adopt the family look, too.

I think the only reason why the MDX doesn't have its license plate housing in the bumper is because of the aesthetic void it would leave in the liftgate.

yugoboy · November 2002

Well i think it is pretty much official, i hope i am wrong but with the introduction of the a-spec tl, look's like the canadian market will not get the tsx!!!!

http://www.vtec.net/news/news-item?news_item_id=50595

1wiseguy · November 2002

I can't see how introducing the A-Spec will prevent Acura from offering the TSX in Canada. For those people who want or need a sedan there's a huge gap in the price points that are currently offered. The EL sells for about 25K all dressed while the base TL starts at 37K. If you don't want a slushbox you have to buy the Type S (41K) and the A-Spec will be even more expensive (probably 44K). I thought that the TSX was supposed to fit that niche between the EL and the TL, meaning a car that sells in Canada for 25-32K depending on trim, sort of like the RSX with 4 doors.

How could the introduction of a 44K (estimated) car have any affect on that? Am I missing something?

ickes_mobile · November 2002

had a brief news item about the new Euro Accord at the Paris Auto show. To sum it up - another bland front wheel drive sedan to go against the BMW 3-Series, Infiniti G35, and Lexus IS200/300...

yugoboy · November 2002

I hope you are right, however i think honda/acura canada makes a killing rebadging a civic and slapping an acura symbol on it, i think there is no room for the tsx with the el around!!!??? I would love too see the tsx up here, but i wonder, we never got the integra sedan for the last 3 year's of it's run!!! Hopefully i am wrong but i think they are trying to dress up the el(aero package) tl(with this a spec package) to full the void for the tsx!!! I hope i am wrong time will tell!!!!

robertsmx · November 2002

another bland front wheel drive sedan to go against the BMW 3-Series, Infiniti G35, and Lexus IS200/300...
Did they leave those three dots for convenience of not having to list Audi A4, Volvo S60, Alfa Romeo 166,...?

(hey, I left some too!)

ickes_mobile · November 2002

I know what the TSX is too (notice I started this forum)and its on my short list along with the NA Accord and, yes, the Mazda6. Being a current Accord owner, I defer to the Honda products and would be inclined to by one of those over the Mazda6. I have not been one to accept the Mazda6 as God's gift to family sedans.

To quote the artical directly: " The TSX will fall between the RSX and TL in Acura's lineup in an attempt to carve out yet another silice of the entry luxury, slightly sporty, automotive pie. We'd be much more interested in sinking our fork into such a car if it were rear wheel drive and looked more exciting. WIth the success of the Lexus IS300 and the Infiniti G35, the last thing Acura needs is another front-wheel-srive sedan. DESIGN COMMENTARY: Yet another bland, anonymous-looking model from Honda that has no design flaws, but not much design character either."

Perhaps, I should have included my own personal commentary along with the above news item. That being that I like the looks of the JDM/Euro Accord. It looks more like the current Audi A4, whereas the Mazda6 looks like the previous generation A4. There's nothing really orignal about either design. Where the Honda really kicks the Mazda6 [non-permissible content removed], however, is inside.

I had been out driving around yesterday and stopped at a Mazda dealer to see if any of the cars were in yet. Finding none, I went accross the roadway and visited a Honda dealer. The interior on this new Accord can't be beat. Whereas the plastic on top of the dash might not be better than a Passat, the seats and switch gear are truly excellent. The knobs for the HVAC and radio have a very expensive look and feel to them and the seats are well contoured, bolstered and supported for comfort.

Assuming these parts make it in the TSX, the only question may be down to rear seat room between the NA Accord and TSX and forgetting the Mazda6...

civicw · November 2002

I hope the TSX has the traditional low cowl that Accords used to have, until Honda decided to go 'American' with the high dashboard to accompany the bloated exterior styling.

ickes_mobile · November 2002

given that the two cars (the NA and Euro/JDM Accords) use the same dash. It really is a striking change from the '98-'02 cars (or all other past Accords). I can only assume that thye sat in the Passat by comparision. The higher cowl and side sills do make the car feel more substantial, like you're siting in the car not on top of it...

sunilb · November 2002

I am also inclined towards a Honda product over a Mazda for reliability, as well as resale value.

But, the 6 seems to be have a pretty compelling set-up: from what I've read, you could a loaded-up 6 (leather, sunroof, better wheels/tires, etc.), with a V-6 and 5spd for ~ $25K. The reviews thus far, are quite complimentary to this car as well.

Meanwhile, the TSX is purported to start at $25K for the base model (which might already be loaded up, but not still not have everything... hence the Type-S) and be using a 4cyl. engine!

These cars seem to be of similar size (not to mention appearance!), so what am I missing that would push the argument in favor of the TSX?

hunter001 · November 2002

I am a Honda fan and have owned Honda products all along, including my current 2000 Acura 3.2TL. For reference, I also own a 2002 Subaru WRX Turbo wagon.

I completely agree with the above statement that the last thing Honda needs in the Acura line-up is another Front-wheel-drive 4-cylinder car. Yuck.

Honda used to make big mistakes earlier when they introduced the Honda Odyssey, with a smallish body and a weak-[non-permissible content removed] 4-cylinder engine. Dismal failure in the US....no surprises there !! Market research showed that that is the last thing that Americans want. They remodelled the Odyssey and fitted a large/torquey 6-cylinder in it, and it has been a roaring success since then. Ditto with the Honda Pilot/Acura MDX etc.

Now they go and bring on another Front-wheel-drive 4-banger to "liven up" their Luxury division. I think Honda needs to fire some of these decision-makers.

They really need to bring something along the lines of the Rear-wheel-drive Honda S2000, with 4-doors, a 2.8-3.0L DOHC i-vtec 6cyl, priced at around 30K, to complement the TL sedans....not another 4-banger FWD car, Euro or not. That would perk up my attention.

Later...AH

mariner7 · November 2002

I'd love to see the Euro Accord here as TL, with I4 and V6 options. Bring in the type R too. Anything above it should be RWD.

As hunter said, an advantage of going RWD is the sedans can share platforms with the sports cars. Even if it means NSX goes front engine. One reason it's in Porsche price territory is its unique configuration. If it shares platform with the next RL, Honda can position it to rival the M3. Just my opinion, but I see no reason why Honda can't build a FE sports car just as good as the M3.

Forget about going after Porsche & Ferrari in sports cars, and ES (gulp!!!) in sedans. Go after BMW in both categories.

But it looks like Honda will only go that route if Acura can't keep up with Lexus and Infiniti.

ickes_mobile · November 2002

Nissan would love it if Infiniti sold like Acura did. Acura is among the top 5 luxury makes in sales (based in strong part to the MDX).

dudleyr · November 2002

"the last thing Honda needs in the Acura line up is another FWD 4-cyl car"

Currently Acura does not have a 4 door 4-cyl and only the RSX has a 4 -cyl (so they are hardly flooding the market), and there are plenty of us who prefer the 4-cyl. If you want a 6 cyl get the TL or RL, and if you can't afford that get the Accord.

What do you need a 6 for anyway, the TSX should be a rocket if it gets the rumored 250 hp, and the engine is quiet and smooth enough you can hardly tell it from a v-6.

If you autocross your Acura, maybe you want a RWD vehicle(that may very well be what most people buy them for ;^) ), but front wheel drive cars can handle very well. I would not buy a RWD car - not as good in the snow, and takes up too much rear seat leg room.

petpad · November 2002

OK I just got a reply from Tom, Sales and Leasing at Camco Acura in Ottawa, and he confirms that the TSX is coming to Canada to fit in between the TL and the EL, because of the huge gap in there. Of course he includes a caveat that anything can happen until then... but that's a good source anyway.

Regarding the last few posts though, I tend to agree on the not ugly/not beautiful styling of the TSX - just another Honda sedan. I must say, and excuse me again for this bias, that my Acura Vigor, despite the low sales back in 92-94, has a lot more character, and a lot more flair with the low profile, disctinctive flared front fenders, frameless windows and unparalleled visibility. Oh yeah, and a roaring 5 cylinder rated at 176 HP but screeching more like 200 (some guys dyno'ed it at 200 at the wheels - see acuravigorclub.com for more) ! Speaking of 4, 5 or 6 cylinders, I think today's 4 bangers are of such high quality, it would be OK for the TSX, as long as the power does not come out only above 6000 rpm, like the S2000. That little rocket is nothing but at stop lights - but speeds-up only once on the go... too bad...
...and Acura better move that licence plate off the friggin trunk cuz that alone will stop me from even considering the TSX! Ha! (what I really want is a BRAND NEW Vigor GS 5 speed, any year any colour, ... anyone knows where I can find one???

dudleyr · November 2002

The Vigor was a relly nice looking vehicle. I wonder what happened to the Honda 5.

petpad · November 2002

Good question - the inline 5 was last used here in the 1998 2.5 TL. The Volvo's still use an inline 5 cyl... I'll ask the boys in our club and a Vigor buddy I have in Japan, he may know if the Honda 5 is still in use over there.

Pet

mariner7 · November 2002

Agreed, in any other market, TSX doesn't need a v6. But the extravagant Americans want a v6 even when a i4 will do. Honda learned that with the Accord and ODy.

In a small car, a FWD can compete than a RWD. But as you climb the horsepower range, FWD loses ground. Honda tried mighty hard, but the CL/S can't outhandle the 330Ci. And no FWD can compete with 7 series/LS. The fattest profit is in the high end, and to compete there, any manufacturer needs RWD. That's why Caddy, Lexus are converting en masse.

Now if Honda is content to be only maker of small cars and profits, that's another story...

Ickes, that was the old Infiniti that couldn't keep up with Honda. The new one just might zoom right ahead. The Z and G are the only cars from Japan in living memory that are praised for looks. And new Infinitis are not warmed over Nissans, as the case with Acura/Honda.

petpad · November 2002

Good question - the inline 5 was last used here in the 1998 2.5 TL. The Volvo's still use an inline 5 cyl... I'll ask the boys in our club and a Vigor buddy I have in Japan, he may know if the Honda 5 is still in use over there.

Pet

venus537 · November 2002

i thought they were FWD.

hunter001 · November 2002

"The fattest profit is in the high end, and to compete there, any manufacturer needs RWD. That's why Caddy, Lexus are converting en masse."

No Lexus, other than the Camry based ES300, is a FWD. Every single one of them (except the ES300), is either a RWD or a 4WD/AWD. So they do not have to convert en-masse !! So is the case with every single BMW, every single Jaguar, every single Mercedes etc. Only Audis and Volvos retain some amount of FWD in their offerings but they do have optional AWD among most of their products.

To the person who stated whether Caddies are FWD - yes they are. But they are converting to RWD/AWD.

mariner7 · November 2002

You're right, Lexus only had one FWD, ES, its Buick. Its BMW wannabes, GS/IS, were always RWD.

robertsmx · November 2002

"I wonder what happened to the Honda 5."
Honda I-5 was replaced by smaller displacement version of the J30A, or the J25A. It is now a 2.5 liter V6 SOHC VTEC, pumping 200 HP/178 lb.-ft and available as the base engine in Honda Inspire/Saber (what would be 2.5TL in North America).

"the 6 seems to be have a pretty compelling set-up: from what I've read, you could a loaded-up 6 (leather, sunroof, better wheels/tires, etc.), with a V-6 and 5spd for ~ $25K... Meanwhile, the TSX is purported to start at $25K for the base model (which might already be loaded up, but not still not have everything... hence the Type-S) and be using a 4cyl. engine!"
Mazda6, loaded up will have an MSRP of about $26500 (including destination), about $100 more than Accord EXV6.
TSX should start (and stop) at $26K as well, and will (likely) come with 2.4 liter I-4 (if Honda doesn't squeeze in the J25A for American market). My guess on specifications of TSX is,
Engine: 2.4 liter I-4 DOHC iVTEC (K24A)
Max Output: 200 HP @ 6800 rpm, 172 lb.-ft @ 4500 rpm (7200 rpm redline)
Transmission: 5-speed SportShift or 6-speed Manual
Wheels: P215/45/R17
Curb Weight: 3200-3250 lb.

Above specs are for JDM 24S model (Sport), and could very well be our TSX. Now, if it is about V6 versus I4, then, in a performance oriented car, the logical choice is usually a lighter engine (many think Accord and Passat feel sportier with four cylinder engines compared to their V6 counterparts). TSX may not be as quick or quicker than Mazda6 with V6, but it will be close. If speed was the priority, why not go with Accord V6/coupe with 6-speed?

The probability of TSX's arrival exists to retain some (potential) Honda buyers from going to VW or other lifestyle vehicle buyers (Mazda6 could be considered one). Many don't like to be seen in a mass marketed car like Accord, and they want to be 'different'. TSX is to address just that. It will be a low volume car, probably targeting as many buyers as RSX does (25-30K per year).

Acura TSX

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