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Acura TSX
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Comments
My response to the salesman was i would rather not drop 25k(taxes included) on a rebadged honda civic with leather seat's and a sunroof and 127hp engine!!
Now my concern about the tsx is that i notice on the canadian website that they offer an aero package on the el, trying to make the car more sporty and maybe shift attention away from the tsx!!! I dont know but i hope i am wrong and we get a chance at this car in the great white north!!!!!!
TSX: 2.4/I4, 160 HP/161 lb.-ft (same as Accord)
TSX-S: 2.4/I4, 200 HP/172 lb.-ft (same engine as JDM Accord 24T/24TL/24S) mated to 5-speed Sport Shift or 6-speed manual.
And priced around $24-26K. Although I'm hoping for Type-S to have IMA mated to K24A, pumping about 220-240 HP,evenif it costs around $30K.
But when it comes to price difference i have to disagree with you, a fully loaded civic errrrr i mean EL(premium model with aero package) comes out to a whopping 26,200 that is not including any taxes, we are almost talking $28000(when everything is said and done) for a friggin run of the mill 127hp civic, i think honda/acura would much rather keep selling this car to a bunch of chumps if they will keep buying them, than go through the trouble of bringing the tsx to the canadian market!!!I can only imagine what the margin's on the civic/EL are!!!!
On another note i really wish honda/acura still designed car's like the vigor and legend, they had some soul to them and purpose!!!!
http://www.honda.co.uk/accord/pricing.html
http://thehollywoodextra.com/acura/acura.html
Later...AH
The pic of the North American red Accord coupe was actually on his site before Honda even released the pic to any other publications. And if you search around, there's a pic of the "redesigned" Toyota Sienna minivan. It'll be interesting to see what the new Toyota Sienna looks like when it's finally unveiled sometimes next year.
However, I do know for a fact that that TSX pic is fake (I even have the original saved on my hard drive), but should the Euro Accord arrive here as the TSX, I wouldn't be surprised if Vince's photoshopped pic is identical.
With the exception of the MDX and RL, all Acuras now have their license plate housings in the bumper. It is part of the new brand look (5-point grille, crease running down a "V" hood, no side molding). Once the RL and NSX are updated, those things that I've mentioned should be seen on every Acura.
1998-02 Accord Coupe (not sedan) had it on the bumper, as does S2000.
I believe that will be one of the things that will change when JDM Accord is dressed up as Acura TSX. The plates will find some place on the rear bumper.
I think the only reason why the MDX doesn't have its license plate housing in the bumper is because of the aesthetic void it would leave in the liftgate.
http://www.vtec.net/news/news-item?news_item_id=50595
How could the introduction of a 44K (estimated) car have any affect on that? Am I missing something?
Did they leave those three dots for convenience of not having to list Audi A4, Volvo S60, Alfa Romeo 166,...?
(hey, I left some too!)
To quote the artical directly: " The TSX will fall between the RSX and TL in Acura's lineup in an attempt to carve out yet another silice of the entry luxury, slightly sporty, automotive pie. We'd be much more interested in sinking our fork into such a car if it were rear wheel drive and looked more exciting. WIth the success of the Lexus IS300 and the Infiniti G35, the last thing Acura needs is another front-wheel-srive sedan. DESIGN COMMENTARY: Yet another bland, anonymous-looking model from Honda that has no design flaws, but not much design character either."
Perhaps, I should have included my own personal commentary along with the above news item. That being that I like the looks of the JDM/Euro Accord. It looks more like the current Audi A4, whereas the Mazda6 looks like the previous generation A4. There's nothing really orignal about either design. Where the Honda really kicks the Mazda6 [non-permissible content removed], however, is inside.
I had been out driving around yesterday and stopped at a Mazda dealer to see if any of the cars were in yet. Finding none, I went accross the roadway and visited a Honda dealer. The interior on this new Accord can't be beat. Whereas the plastic on top of the dash might not be better than a Passat, the seats and switch gear are truly excellent. The knobs for the HVAC and radio have a very expensive look and feel to them and the seats are well contoured, bolstered and supported for comfort.
Assuming these parts make it in the TSX, the only question may be down to rear seat room between the NA Accord and TSX and forgetting the Mazda6...
I am also inclined towards a Honda product over a Mazda for reliability, as well as resale value.
But, the 6 seems to be have a pretty compelling set-up: from what I've read, you could a loaded-up 6 (leather, sunroof, better wheels/tires, etc.), with a V-6 and 5spd for ~ $25K. The reviews thus far, are quite complimentary to this car as well.
Meanwhile, the TSX is purported to start at $25K for the base model (which might already be loaded up, but not still not have everything... hence the Type-S) and be using a 4cyl. engine!
These cars seem to be of similar size (not to mention appearance!), so what am I missing that would push the argument in favor of the TSX?
I completely agree with the above statement that the last thing Honda needs in the Acura line-up is another Front-wheel-drive 4-cylinder car. Yuck.
Honda used to make big mistakes earlier when they introduced the Honda Odyssey, with a smallish body and a weak-[non-permissible content removed] 4-cylinder engine. Dismal failure in the US....no surprises there !! Market research showed that that is the last thing that Americans want. They remodelled the Odyssey and fitted a large/torquey 6-cylinder in it, and it has been a roaring success since then. Ditto with the Honda Pilot/Acura MDX etc.
Now they go and bring on another Front-wheel-drive 4-banger to "liven up" their Luxury division. I think Honda needs to fire some of these decision-makers.
They really need to bring something along the lines of the Rear-wheel-drive Honda S2000, with 4-doors, a 2.8-3.0L DOHC i-vtec 6cyl, priced at around 30K, to complement the TL sedans....not another 4-banger FWD car, Euro or not. That would perk up my attention.
Later...AH
As hunter said, an advantage of going RWD is the sedans can share platforms with the sports cars. Even if it means NSX goes front engine. One reason it's in Porsche price territory is its unique configuration. If it shares platform with the next RL, Honda can position it to rival the M3. Just my opinion, but I see no reason why Honda can't build a FE sports car just as good as the M3.
Forget about going after Porsche & Ferrari in sports cars, and ES (gulp!!!) in sedans. Go after BMW in both categories.
But it looks like Honda will only go that route if Acura can't keep up with Lexus and Infiniti.
Currently Acura does not have a 4 door 4-cyl and only the RSX has a 4 -cyl (so they are hardly flooding the market), and there are plenty of us who prefer the 4-cyl. If you want a 6 cyl get the TL or RL, and if you can't afford that get the Accord.
What do you need a 6 for anyway, the TSX should be a rocket if it gets the rumored 250 hp, and the engine is quiet and smooth enough you can hardly tell it from a v-6.
If you autocross your Acura, maybe you want a RWD vehicle(that may very well be what most people buy them for ;^) ), but front wheel drive cars can handle very well. I would not buy a RWD car - not as good in the snow, and takes up too much rear seat leg room.
Regarding the last few posts though, I tend to agree on the not ugly/not beautiful styling of the TSX - just another Honda sedan. I must say, and excuse me again for this bias, that my Acura Vigor, despite the low sales back in 92-94, has a lot more character, and a lot more flair with the low profile, disctinctive flared front fenders, frameless windows and unparalleled visibility. Oh yeah, and a roaring 5 cylinder rated at 176 HP but screeching more like 200 (some guys dyno'ed it at 200 at the wheels - see acuravigorclub.com for more) ! Speaking of 4, 5 or 6 cylinders, I think today's 4 bangers are of such high quality, it would be OK for the TSX, as long as the power does not come out only above 6000 rpm, like the S2000. That little rocket is nothing but at stop lights - but speeds-up only once on the go... too bad...
...and Acura better move that licence plate off the friggin trunk cuz that alone will stop me from even considering the TSX! Ha! (what I really want is a BRAND NEW Vigor GS 5 speed, any year any colour, ... anyone knows where I can find one???
Pet
In a small car, a FWD can compete than a RWD. But as you climb the horsepower range, FWD loses ground. Honda tried mighty hard, but the CL/S can't outhandle the 330Ci. And no FWD can compete with 7 series/LS. The fattest profit is in the high end, and to compete there, any manufacturer needs RWD. That's why Caddy, Lexus are converting en masse.
Now if Honda is content to be only maker of small cars and profits, that's another story...
Ickes, that was the old Infiniti that couldn't keep up with Honda. The new one just might zoom right ahead. The Z and G are the only cars from Japan in living memory that are praised for looks. And new Infinitis are not warmed over Nissans, as the case with Acura/Honda.
Pet
No Lexus, other than the Camry based ES300, is a FWD. Every single one of them (except the ES300), is either a RWD or a 4WD/AWD. So they do not have to convert en-masse !! So is the case with every single BMW, every single Jaguar, every single Mercedes etc. Only Audis and Volvos retain some amount of FWD in their offerings but they do have optional AWD among most of their products.
To the person who stated whether Caddies are FWD - yes they are. But they are converting to RWD/AWD.
Honda I-5 was replaced by smaller displacement version of the J30A, or the J25A. It is now a 2.5 liter V6 SOHC VTEC, pumping 200 HP/178 lb.-ft and available as the base engine in Honda Inspire/Saber (what would be 2.5TL in North America).
"the 6 seems to be have a pretty compelling set-up: from what I've read, you could a loaded-up 6 (leather, sunroof, better wheels/tires, etc.), with a V-6 and 5spd for ~ $25K... Meanwhile, the TSX is purported to start at $25K for the base model (which might already be loaded up, but not still not have everything... hence the Type-S) and be using a 4cyl. engine!"
Mazda6, loaded up will have an MSRP of about $26500 (including destination), about $100 more than Accord EXV6.
TSX should start (and stop) at $26K as well, and will (likely) come with 2.4 liter I-4 (if Honda doesn't squeeze in the J25A for American market). My guess on specifications of TSX is,
Engine: 2.4 liter I-4 DOHC iVTEC (K24A)
Max Output: 200 HP @ 6800 rpm, 172 lb.-ft @ 4500 rpm (7200 rpm redline)
Transmission: 5-speed SportShift or 6-speed Manual
Wheels: P215/45/R17
Curb Weight: 3200-3250 lb.
Above specs are for JDM 24S model (Sport), and could very well be our TSX. Now, if it is about V6 versus I4, then, in a performance oriented car, the logical choice is usually a lighter engine (many think Accord and Passat feel sportier with four cylinder engines compared to their V6 counterparts). TSX may not be as quick or quicker than Mazda6 with V6, but it will be close. If speed was the priority, why not go with Accord V6/coupe with 6-speed?
The probability of TSX's arrival exists to retain some (potential) Honda buyers from going to VW or other lifestyle vehicle buyers (Mazda6 could be considered one). Many don't like to be seen in a mass marketed car like Accord, and they want to be 'different'. TSX is to address just that. It will be a low volume car, probably targeting as many buyers as RSX does (25-30K per year).