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i only saw part of the segment on it while taking a break from mowing.
it was kind of like a dodge version of a yenko chevrolet.
only 48 were made, supposedly 6 surviving.
the fenders had '383' on them, but i thought i heard the narrator say '440'. maybe you could get either.
they had headers that could run open or through the regular exhaust pipes.
the strange part is that the headers ran through a cutout behind the front wheels and in front of the firewall.
the owner mentioned that it had a huge turning circle due to the header interference. the show pegged the value at 200k!
Okay, what I REALLY have is a 1:25 scale model of a '68 Dodge Dart GSS that I never opened up. Still in the box, sealed up. A coworker gave it to me for my birthday in 2002. I haven't put a model together in ages, and I've heard that sometimes they go up in value if you never open the box so I figured what the hey. In 40-50 years it might be worth something, and it at least has the cool pics on the box to look at.
The box itself just says "Mr. Norm's 1968 Dodge Dart, and doesn't actually call the car "GSS" anywhere on it. And On it is a picture of a black 1968 Dart hardtop with the hubcaps that look like Magnum style wheels, redline tires, and a red bumblebee stripe. I never really looked THAT closely at the picture, but I always thought it said "GTS" on the side. But on closer inspection, I see that it's a "GSS"! Funny I've had it all these years, but never knew it was a GSS!
On the side of the box it says...
"They said it couldn't be done, but that never stopped Mr. Norm and his Grand Spaulding Team from creating some of the fastest cars of the 60's and 70's. Even Chrysler engineering coudn't fit a 440 engine into Dodge's compact Dart, but even if it meant putting the battery in the trunk, Mr. Norm was determined to make it work"
FWIW though, you could get a 383 in the Dart GTS from 1968-69. And in 1968 you could even get a 426 Hemi. So I'm sure that if Chrysler could squeeze a Hemi in a Dart, they could have done a 440 themselves.
The GSS looked more stock than a Hemi Dart, though, with normal sized wheel openings, roll down rear windows, etc. On the Hemi they cut open the rear wheel openings to allow for fat racing tires, and they also shed every pound they could, which meant doing little things like removing the back seat, the armrests, the roll-down mechanism for the back windows, making the front windows slide up and down like what you might find in a school bus, and putting lightweight A-100 van seats in it.
I dunno how much Mr. Norm's GSS would have run, but I have an old Chrysler book from 1985 that says a Hemi Dart cost about $4,000 when new. I remember the book saying that, in 1985 dollars, that equated to about $11,500, which by that time might've gotten you a really nice Reliant or Aries.
Good history on the Edsel. They are my fav cars all 3 years. However 1960 was so ridicules (a barely warmed over 1960 Ford). I haven't seen many 1960s but the one I did see you could see the outline of the Ford taillight opening where the welded in a panel to create the Edsel taillights. A bit of useless trivia!....Mercury did the same in the 80's with the Colony Park wagon.
BTW when I was in high school(1977) believe it or not I actually did a term paper on the Edsel!(I was born a car nut!) Anyway, I wrote to Ford and ask them for some info on the Edsel. I wasn't expecting much, considering how much they wanted to forget about the Edsel altogether. I was shocked when I received not 1 but 2, 8' X 10" envelopes with about almost a total of 100 on the Edsel! Everything from how the idea to develop the Edsel to the naming (workers at Ford had a contest to name it) and then production. It had a break down of the production figures by model and year. Of course I kept those papers for years. But lost them in Hurricane Katrina!
I forget that freakshows were sold as normal on the Mexican market
The diesel nuts will eat it up
Unusual and weathered Fiat
This got healthy bidding
Who would keep this?
"Body By Fisher" must have meant something
Or if your tastes were more upmarket
Original cars are pretty cool
So much of this kinda thing seems to have survived
Same here, really. Looks nice for the money
Might be one of the nicest left, but so weird
With fins that start on the front doors, and those lights, how can you go wrong...
Sorry, the front license plate doesn't fool me
Unusual history
I like the patina, but not at that money
The opening bid seems fair, the buy it now hilarious
More seldom seen bubbletop
Nice big old wagon in that unusual color
the Peugeot 504 Diesel...bid up to $2750 indicates that diesel fever is more than alive and well...I mean, it's in 'good shape', physically, but seems unsound to drive, so that price is crazy, IMO.
'57 Cadillac 62 4-door hardtop...nice car, too bad it's the least desirable model they built that year, why is that always the case (that the silly sedans survive perfectly, but try to find a nice, original convertible, two-door hardtop or something like an Eldorado?)
The Edsel wagon--I guess the reasoning is: if the 'right' buyer is tries to find another loaded (power windows, even!) Edsel first-year woody wagon anywhere...oh, wait, they can't...it 'is what it is'! Thus the price, even if it seems a bit silly, and the thing needs work...price seems about right, actually, given prices of comparable late-50s wagons.
I would 10x rather have a nice '77-79 Fleetwood than a '74-76, if only for the driveability and (slightly) better gas mileage, and that example is dynamite (great period pimpy light yellow, nice velour, wire hubs, wonderful condition, good price). Love it, but I'm a sicko!
I guess that in the 70s, that's the best they could do for economy.
I do remember seeing that gauge pop up pretty often on the later downsized big Chevies and Pontiacs. There was a lady at my church with an '86 Parisienne that had that gauge.
I'd shudder to think what kind of economy that Grand Safari would get. I think they actually topped 5,000 pounds, so I'm sure it was pretty scary. I wonder if this is one case where you might be better off, economy-wise, with the bigger 455? Even though a 400-4bbl is hardly dainty, it might have still been over-matched in something this size.
And it's funny how car colors we wouldn't be caught dead in today somehow work on older cars. I guess it was because the chrome often helped offset some of the colors that, on their own, would be simply atrocious?
On the '77-79 versus '71-76 Fleetwoods, I think I like the downsized ones better too. I think the main thing I like about the pre-downsized fullsizers is the hardtop and convertible styles and the bigger available engines. But the Fleetwood wasn't a hardtop to begin with, and even downsized still had a fairly impressive 425 V-8. It might've lost 10-20 hp and some torque compared to the big 500, but also probably lost about a half-ton of weight.
I have heard that the 425 wasn't as reliable as the 500, though. I forget exactly why, but I think it had to do with the rocker arms being stamped more cheaply, or something like that? Oh well, when your 425 blows, pull it out and put in a 500. It'll fit!
I like the color combo on that beast too...that creamy yellow with matching velour interior is actually pretty tasteful IMO. I think if it were leather it would look a bit too much though. One thing I miss about the 70's and 80's is that there was still a big market for an upscale cloth interior. These days, an upscale car seems to automatically come with leather, while the cloth in the lower-line cars is often barely worthy to patch Barney the Dinosaur's costume.
I know I'd like to have that car and I'll be shocked if it doesn't go for +$30K
Fin, are those the Euro headlights on the 300SL you mentioned recently in the Mystery Car topic?
AFAIK US Spec cars had those as well, at least I don't recall any other style. :confuse:
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
I think Ghulet meant "least desireable" in a relative sense. Being a 4-door hardtop, it would be less desireable than an equivalent 2-door hardtop or convertible. With the exception of the Fleetwood, Cadillac didn't offer pillared 4-doors in 1957, and probably hadn't offered a 2-door sedan since maybe 1953, so the 4-door hardtop automatically becomes the least desirable style in the pecking order of things.
Plus, it's a 62, which IIRC was the cheapest Cadillac. Still, it's a beautiful car overall, and I'm sure very desireable. Just not AS desireable as a 2-door, convertible, DeVille, or Eldorado would be. Heck, I wouldn't mind having that thing in my garage!
Still, if you want a car like that Caddy, that's the one to buy. I don't think it's going to bring very much $$$, relative to a 2-door coupe.
The Fiat Abarth is very cool, and quite rare. Don't know if the buyer can come out all right, but he might, he might.
Edsel Wagon: I would have appraised it at about $10,000, so it's within the "eBay 25% over retail knucklehead bidder factor".
Peugeot Wagon -- I owned a 504 diesel and it was a darn good good. I think this was an okay buy for that price, since rat 300Ds sell for that. But it's more than enough, it's top 'o the market.
60 Imperial -- you will be stared out, for good or ill.
300SL -- hmmm....hard to value. I'd say $200K is plenty because you need many gold bars in your war chest to restore these cars. I'm not so fond of drum brake Euro 300SLs anyway, one is always suspicious of hidden rust or the work of Belgian brigands who work these cars over with their "magic" and send them to America. This car needs a very close look-over.
Odd thing for me to admit, but I do like those early downsized Fleetwoods. I think for their time and market they were proportioned well, and that non-parallel B-pillar has caught my eye since I was a kid. If I had a big garage and money to toss around after other projects were completed, I wouldn't mind having one. Affordable pimpy luxury.
Here's a 300SL with NA-market lights
One thing that always surprised me is that these things really weren't all that big, although they certainly looked it. I just looked up some specs, and that '57 Caddy 4-door hardtop is only about 216" long. FWIW, I think a '57 Imperial that year was about 225" long and a '57 Lincoln was about 227" long. My '57 DeSoto is even a bit longer, at 218". I think when it came to size, the DeSoto Firedome probably gave you the most inches for your dollar back then, as they started at something like $2958 for a 4-door sedan.
The Caddy 2-door and convertible models were a bit longer though, around 221". That always surprised me too, because often a car with a larger passenger area, such as your typical 4-door, often looks clumsy when its overall length is shorter, as the roof gets a bit disproportionate compared to the hood and rear deck. But I think that '57 Caddy is just about perfect.
i don't know if i can dig any deeper than a 48 run vehicle to stump you, but i'll keep trying. spaudling was the dealer, so you do know about the 'gss'.
funny we non classic cadillac owners all like that 57 series 62.
proportions look good, and how many vehicles can boast 4 driving lights in the bumper?
doh! almost forgot. i saw a caravan of half a dozen model a's from new jersey on my way home from the grocery store. :surprise:
It struck me as quite big--even though I recall early 50s cars as being compact comared to those from after '57 or so--this early 50s car dwarfed over the modern cars on the same lot. :mad:
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
Anyway, in 1949 cheaper Chryslers, and DeSotos, were on a 125.5" wheelbase. The New Yorker back then was on a long 131.5" wheelbase.
I'm not sure about overall length, but I do remember my Granddad's '53 DeSoto Firedome was about 213 inches long, so I'm sure any 50'-ish Windsor would have been comparable.
For comparison, here are some Cadillac lengths for 1950...
Series 61: 212"
Series 62: 215"
Sixty Special: 224"
Fleetwood 75: 237"
By 1953 Cadillacs were 216" long for regular sedans, but they stretched the coupes and convertibles to 220". And of course, the long-wheelbase Sixty Special and Fleetwood were larger still.
Back in 1950 Buicks were comparatively tiny, about 204" for the Specials and 208" for the Roadmasters.
Chrysler made building big, roomy cars that a man could wear his hat in a priority with the 1949-54 models, so they came off as massive, imposing, upright cars. In contrast, the stylists were given more of a free reign at GM and Ford, and as a result, function often followed form. They looked pretty and sleek, but you lost some interior room.
Chryslers really didn't get much bigger in the late 50's. Actually, Cadillacs and Imperials and DeSotos really didn't, either. It's just everybody else that tried to catch up to them. Chryslers had always been big, but suddenly it became fashionable to be big, so everybody else went that way too.
That's not the same as seeing a current movie destroy old cars. Those cars were current models when that movie came out. :-)
Still, I'm guessing that there's still enough clunker '68-70 Chargers around that they were probably finding these and patching them together, and using them to smash up.
Boss Hogg's '76 Eldorado convertible got beat up pretty bad in this movie too, as one of the Duke boys got ahold of it and used it as a battering ram to swat Crown Vic police cars out of the way like little toys.
New vs old, from a Euro MB corporate site
NIFTY50.
I guessed right on the year.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
a nice looking '73 big Benz, in that medium blue that they all were. Only $1777 out front a local auto shop that also sells crappy looking used cars. THis one stuck out.
Early 70's Chevy van, semi-custom (reminded me a little of the mystery machine). But, most notable feature is that it was stretched to add a 2nd rear axle (guess it made it a 6x2). Looked odd, but almost like a factory job!
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
I dig rodded 55s and 56s. I wouldn't cut up a nicely restored original to do it, but if you're starting with a car that's not intact, I'd feel free to soup it up. If I'm looking at a 56 with an empty engine bay, I'd think "I can scour the earth for a proper 283 or for the same money I can do a big block". The big block would win.
At a recent cruise night, I was surprised out the number of 55s to 57s. Most were rodded and looked sweet.
a '75ish Caddy ELdo. Cream color hardtop. Looked brand new, with historic plates even. What a barge, it made our Odyssey look petite.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
A few years back, my neighbor had a '61 Caddy coupe (forget which series though) that he was storing for a friend. It was kind of a butterscotch yellow and had bucket seats, which must have been pretty uncommon. The body looked just about perfect, but it needed an engine rebuild.. I think the guy was thinking about selling it, but at the time there was no way I could have afforded it.
If you can tolerate the 6 window model, then even less $$.
Now for '62, I like the 4-window style. I think the thicker, squared off C-pillars just work better with the car. That wraparound rear window on the '61 just ties the car in too much with a Chevy, I guess.
By 1961-62 Cadillac wasn't making pillared sedans, with the exception of the Fleetwood 75 limo. I think otherwise, the last pillared Caddy sedans were in 1956. I think the Sixty Special would go back to being a pillared sedan in a few years, though.
Check out the filenames for descriptions. These were all shot with a very cheap digital camera, in poor light with people bumping into me all the time. So sorry for the poor quality.
Will put some more up later.
I'm just guessing, but if it is a true number-match car, I'd put the value somewhere around $80K?
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Then this evening, I let a FOrd in front of me, and followed it for a while. Not sure exactly what it was, but it looked early 50s? Kicker is, it was a hot rod of some sort. Chopped roof, lowered, side pipes (sounded straight).
But, it looked like it was painted with black spray paint, and the side pipes looked home made (the ends resembled headers put on backwards). Moon hubbies too. Also had a V8 (nice blatting, but smelly), and a 3 on the tree (I heard the stick, saw the shifting).
I would have loved a closer look at the inside.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
'74 ??? Ford Something-Something Squire Wagon---HUGE thing, fake wood, covered in leaves in driveway.
'63 Ford Falcon coupe, white, nice and clean!
Citroen DS19, currently registered but cobwebs from front bumper to street (not a good sign).
'65 ?? Valiant convertible (it's the one with the handle on the trunk that looks like it came from an oven door), very clean high #3. Cute car.
Jaguar Mark 10 sedan, hood cracked open in driveway, battery charger attached (natch'), low #3, a gaping yaw of a money pit I'm afeared.
dark grey over salmon pink was well done as was the chrome and other details. Oddly the car was not customized in any way other than the respray.
Grey over pink was a mid-'50s thing, I'm sure it was not a factory option on early 50s Lead Sleds in fact IIRC there were few if any tu-tone '49-'51 Mercurys.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93