I've heard those Jags go for under original sticker in the real market. That's what you get with a ready-made collectible.
If I had endless money and a huge garage, I too would have quite a freaky mess of old cars laying around. It wouldn't be high dollar muscle and exotics, for sure.
He'd be crazy not to take the current bid, which is already over retail. I don't know where people get it in their heads that old Benz sedans are going to be "classics". It simple isn't going to happen. I suppose Barrett Jackson auctions is partly to blame for spreading false rumors (in their own interest, one might suspect).
Yeah, that's certainly true. The only sedans of that era that bring that much are 6.3/6.9, and the validity of those prices is debatable. The maintenance headaches associated with those high end models are more of a liability than the merits of badge, IMO. 8 grand for a 30 year old complex sedan with styling too old to be new, but too new to be old, with 100K on it should be enough to make one happy.
I constantly see those Adenauers carrying a high price, especially really nice ones. I've never seen a decent one below 10.
I don't think I've ever seen an Adenauer that wasn't a rust bucket underneath it all.
As for sedans, I think the ONLY old postwar 4-door sedan I've ever seen worth owning, restoring and keeping (financially speaking I mean) is the Jaguar 3.8 Mark II with 4 speed and LHD.
The 94-96 Impala SS is an up and comer though; otherwise, 4 doors seem to languish in value and collectibility.
You can find old Rolls sedans from the 60s and 70s selling for $20K or so but they are money pits with little chance of appreciation.
I suppose we must also consider the occasional and rare plain-jane American 60s Mopar with a Hemi stuffed in it.
that got me thinking of something interesting I saw a few years ago at one of the Carlisle, PA swap meets. It was a 1970 or '71 Ford Torino, 4-door hardtop, with a 429 V-8 under the hood!
I thought it was kinda interesting partly for being a 4-door hardtop. Generally, Ford and Mopar didn't do 4-door hardtops in their smaller cars. GM had the Corvair and a whole slew of intermediate 4-door hardtops, but there never was a Falcon/Comet or Dart/Valiant 4-door hardtop. And in intermediates, Chrysler only did them from '62-64, trying to convince the public that they were "downsized" full-sized cars!
And having that 429 under the hood was really sweet, considering how wallflower and conservative the car looked, otherwise. It was kind of a light metallic green with a hint of silver, a color that was pretty popular before the pondscums and pukes of the 70's took over! It had 429 badging on the fenders, but that was about it.
Who knows? There are so many incorrect, made-up and clever counterfeit muscle cars out there that you need a PhD in factory documentation research to ever figure it out anymore. I think it's getting pretty silly, given that these cars were really taxicabs with big motors. Get out and drive 'em, you guys, and smoke those tires. If owners of rare Ferraris worth 3 million can back their cars into walls in vintage races, I don't see why muscle cars need to be wrapped in plastic.
if you can afford a $3 million Ferrari, you can afford the repair bill when you back it into a wall! Hell, at this point I couldn't afford it if I backed my '85 Silverado into a tree!
how about my '79 NYer into a tree...no, wait, same story. '67 Catalina into a tree? '57 DeSoto? Okay, I couldn't afford it if I backed my Intrepid into a tree!
...easy on andre shifty ;-) He's our resident domestic car encyclopedia; well, if not quite an encyclopedia, a darned sight more knowledgable than I on the subject.
I've seen those old Rollers go for under 10 grand. I wouldn't touch one. I don't like the Shadows anyway.
I like the cars I like for reasons other than profit...that comes last. When the cars are cheap to begin with, you don't have to worry. When a 100% sound and fairly clean and nice 220/S/SE fintail will set you back no more than 5-6 grand tops, you don't have to worry about money made.
Speaking of basic cars with big engines that aren't the usual muscle car fodder...my dad rescued a one-owner 68 Fairlane 4 door post with a 390 (big for that little car) about 10 years ago. Three on the tree, manual brakes, manual steering, no options but a radio. It even had little basic hubcaps, and it was white on white. It was no slouch. I am sure that car is rare. He sold it a year later, made 5x his money.
It's a 1969 Plymouth Valiant 2-door hardtop. It's interesting, because the last Valiant 2-door hardtop was made in 1966! Although, in 1970, it returned at the Scamp, basically a Dodge Dart with a Valiant interior and front-end.
This Valiant hardtop was offered from 1967-69 in Mexico. I think they took the 2-door sedan and converted it to a hardtop, which may explain why the roofline looks so upright.
actually, by 1970 they may not have been that different. Maybe the gauge cluster, door panel inserts, and seat patterns, but that was probably about it. That, and the Dart 4-door was on a longer wheelbase than the Valiant 4-door (111" versus 108"). Both the Dart and Scamp hardtops were on a 111" wb, while the Duster/Demon were on the stubbier Valiant wb.
That Plymouth is pretty weird. I can't recall seeing one that late...most were that fastback Swinger style by then, weren't they? Or was that what came out in 70? I know there's something like that notchback in my area, but I suspect it is older, c.66 or so.
I saw another Pinzgauer today. From a distance, I thought it was a lowered Unimog. That's a strange thing to think.
did come out in 1970, but it was called Duster at Plymouth and Demon at Dodge. In 1973, the name was changed to Dart Sport, because the Demon didn't sell too well in the Bible Belt...evidently, little old ladies frowned upon the idea of driving a Demon to church on Sunday!
I think the Swinger name was first used in 1969, and was used to denote a stripped-down, bare-bones Dart hardtop. There was also a Swinger 340, which was that same stripper hardtop, but with a very potent smallblock under the hood! By the 70's though, I think Dodge was calling all of the Dart hardtops Swingers. Odd thing, to name a car after wife-swappers! ;-)
I am thinking of the old-ish looking Dart hardtop rather than a Duster, which was more modern looking (it's all relative). The one like this
The Swinger name kinda goes with the 70s, in a way. I can't imagine they didn't know that connotation for that word, too. It must have been a big seller...I remember a lot of those things still around when I was a kid in the 80s. Either that or they all survived because of their old slant 6. You don't see them around much anymore...the bodies have all rotted away, I am sure.
The '70 Swinger was a good seller, at $2,260 MSRP. It was the bargain basement 2 dr hardtop and outsold all the other hardtops easily. Producton figures I have are approx. 119,000 Swingers for that year.
I saw a restored 340 NOT sell at auction on an $11,000 bid. Seems like it oughta have been enough.
About a year or so ago while at a gas station filling up, I spotted a very original car, one I didn't think was sold here initially.
The gas pump kept shutting off, holding the handled required that my back be turned to the other side of the gas pump. When I heard something pull up that sounded really strange. I mean the sound of valves whirring and clicking combined with what sounded like an engine in serious trouble singnaled that this was no regular car. The car? An original Lamborginini Countach 5000 Quattrovalvole.........such a difference from the last Countach sold here in 1990. What a car it was to see!!! Absolutely wicked.
Good sighting. Those are pretty rare. They only made about 630 of them. 455HP@7000prm, 186 mph, 18 quarts of oil squishing around in there and 6 Webers sucking in the gas. Whooo-eeee! (and 78 inches wide, just so you'd notice it!)
You can have that car for only $90K or so if you want one.
Never drove the Diablo...was driven around in it. Drove some of the older ones though.
A really really rare Lambo you will NEVER see is the Marzal. They only made one, and Prince Rainier and Princess Grace drove it around as the pace car for the 1967 Monaco Grand Prix.
It was sort of a four-seat futuristic thing on a lenthened Miura chassis. Apparently Mister....er...Senore...Lamborghini...thought it was too far out.
That old Countach was like the last one but without the overcompensating spoiler and all of the body cladding, right? I remember I used to have a toy of a very plain Countach when I was little.
Fintail, in a post way back you said that didn't like the RR Silver Shadow's... I agree, they are rather boxy. I bought a 1964 Rolls Royce Silver Cloud III about 5 years ago and have had a blast with it.
It's white with tan leather upholstery. I've put a little money in it and it runs really good. The "thumbs up" I get when driving it makes it all worth the few repairs that I've made which have not been bad for a nearly 40 yr. old British car.
The car club that I belong to (Great Auto's of Yesteryear) has a wonderful collection of old classics that I drool after. One guy has a 1958 Eldorado Biaritz with suicide doors, stainless steel top with a black body. It even has memory seating where the driver's bench seat will move forward when one of the rear doors is opened. It's one cool car!
2010 Land Rover LR4, 2013 Honda CR-V, 2009 Bentley GTC, 1990 MB 500SL, 2001 MB S500, 2007 Lincoln TC, 1964 RR Silver Cloud III, 1995 MB E320 Cab., 2015 Prevost Liberty Coach
I think every and any male that grew up after the car was built had at least a poster or model of the Countach. Talk about subjective, indirect marketing, the mainstream carmakers would kill for this type of car worship to happen as such a young age and last until the boy becomes a car buying $$$ man!!!!
Yep and that was the one, very naked looking without all the later add ons.
The Shadow probably looked very modern and elegant in 1966, but it just isn't special enough to match the Rolls name, to me. It has a fintail window line and very boring body features. I much more like cars like your Cloud. That car looked good in all of its series, single and dual lights. Thats a timelessly elegant design, it looks rich and expensive even today.
Those early Eldorado/Seville sedans like that are very pretty and cool, yes. There's one in my area too, the seemingly standard black with stainless top. I like it more than the standard cars, it seems kind of exotic for the day, reminds me of a Facel-Vega.
I had a model of a Countach when I was about 12, so that would have been around 1989. It was a very difficult model my uncle bought on a trip to Japan, and I never got it together properly, as it was very complex, with spring loaded/latching door assemblies and indivudually paned windows, etc. But I do remember I intentionally left the spoiler off when I made it. The Countach is a real piece of 70s cutting edge design, and unashamedly so in its original rectangular angular state. I don't like the add ons which try to add modernity. Cars like that, with their poster presence were great marketing, yes. Same for the Testarossa...it was on so many young walls back in the day. People will always know what those cars are, and it guarantees some market for those makers. Although, at the time, I wanted an AMG S-class more than any of those exotics.
but how exactly did a memory seat keep its memory? I could understand nowadays, with computers and such, but how did they do it before they had computers in cars?
Did that Eldorado Brougham also have the cool sterling drink tumblers that came the with the car? I'd love to have a 1957-58 Eldorado Brougham. I do have a Franklin Mint model of that particular car.
I had the chance to buy a 1986 Rolls-Royce Silver Spirit for $26K but took a pass on it.
When I was in college in the '80s, just about every guy had a poster of the Countach in their dorm room.
his kid brother had a poster of the Countach. The sheer brazeness of that cars styling had a lot to do with the perception of Lamborghini as being on a par with Ferrari.
I prefer the Countach's forbear the beautiful, curvaceous Miura arguably the most beautiful mid-engined car ever made...
but it was dressed up like a police car with a lady cop standing in front, aiming her guns (handgun and otherwise). It said "BUSTED" across the top, for obvious reasons...
On the way to work today I saw a white two door Chevette for sale in someone's front yard. The car appeared to be in perfect shape - as well it should - given that the car had a large sign across the windshield declaring that it only has 14,000 miles on the odo. Asking price - $2800.
There is part of me that wants to buy the car. Am I sick?
the 250 Lusso as well. I consider it the most Beautiful car ever made. Those Italians were really at the top of their game from 1960-67 turning out one beautiful car after another.
Even their popular-priced offering were striking (Fiat 124 Spider, Alfa GTA/GTV).
I've heard the Miura described as what an Italian GT40 would look like.
...were actually pretty good when it came to rust resistance. They were nasty little cars otherwise, squeaky, rattly, and slapped together, and they'd leak oil and other fluids, but they just seemed to keep on going. When it comes to rust resistance, I'd say they were better than any Japanese competitor of the time, and better than any domestic subcompact that had come before (Pinto, Vega, Gremlin)
I didn't say I was willing to pay the asking price!
In a few years it would make for a curious, if not interesting, little car show piece. I doubt there are many pristine Chevettes running around.
Just to drive my "sickness" point home, I found an AMC Concorde a few years ago with 8,000 miles on the odo. It looked like it just rolled off the assembly line. Thought about buying that one too.
Comments
If I had endless money and a huge garage, I too would have quite a freaky mess of old cars laying around. It wouldn't be high dollar muscle and exotics, for sure.
I like this just for the color. Never been a huge 116 fan, but in a weird 70s retro way, they are growing on me. This is an ideal car in a perfect period color.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item- =2445885817&category=6315
This one is gorgeous, DOT bumpers, but still very nice, in my eyes. Buy it now is a bit steep, but you could do a lot worse.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item- =2445216119&category=6336
Take the $7,900 and RUN, MAN, RUN!
I constantly see those Adenauers carrying a high price, especially really nice ones. I've never seen a decent one below 10.
As for sedans, I think the ONLY old postwar 4-door sedan I've ever seen worth owning, restoring and keeping (financially speaking I mean) is the Jaguar 3.8 Mark II with 4 speed and LHD.
The 94-96 Impala SS is an up and comer though; otherwise, 4 doors seem to languish in value and collectibility.
You can find old Rolls sedans from the 60s and 70s selling for $20K or so but they are money pits with little chance of appreciation.
I suppose we must also consider the occasional and rare plain-jane American 60s Mopar with a Hemi stuffed in it.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
I thought it was kinda interesting partly for being a 4-door hardtop. Generally, Ford and Mopar didn't do 4-door hardtops in their smaller cars. GM had the Corvair and a whole slew of intermediate 4-door hardtops, but there never was a Falcon/Comet or Dart/Valiant 4-door hardtop. And in intermediates, Chrysler only did them from '62-64, trying to convince the public that they were "downsized" full-sized cars!
And having that 429 under the hood was really sweet, considering how wallflower and conservative the car looked, otherwise. It was kind of a light metallic green with a hint of silver, a color that was pretty popular before the pondscums and pukes of the 70's took over! It had 429 badging on the fenders, but that was about it.
Regards... Vikd
I like the cars I like for reasons other than profit...that comes last. When the cars are cheap to begin with, you don't have to worry. When a 100% sound and fairly clean and nice 220/S/SE fintail will set you back no more than 5-6 grand tops, you don't have to worry about money made.
Speaking of basic cars with big engines that aren't the usual muscle car fodder...my dad rescued a one-owner 68 Fairlane 4 door post with a 390 (big for that little car) about 10 years ago. Three on the tree, manual brakes, manual steering, no options but a radio. It even had little basic hubcaps, and it was white on white. It was no slouch. I am sure that car is rare. He sold it a year later, made 5x his money.
It's a 1969 Plymouth Valiant 2-door hardtop. It's interesting, because the last Valiant 2-door hardtop was made in 1966! Although, in 1970, it returned at the Scamp, basically a Dodge Dart with a Valiant interior and front-end.
This Valiant hardtop was offered from 1967-69 in Mexico. I think they took the 2-door sedan and converted it to a hardtop, which may explain why the roofline looks so upright.
I saw another Pinzgauer today. From a distance, I thought it was a lowered Unimog. That's a strange thing to think.
I think the Swinger name was first used in 1969, and was used to denote a stripped-down, bare-bones Dart hardtop. There was also a Swinger 340, which was that same stripper hardtop, but with a very potent smallblock under the hood! By the 70's though, I think Dodge was calling all of the Dart hardtops Swingers. Odd thing, to name a car after wife-swappers! ;-)
The Swinger name kinda goes with the 70s, in a way. I can't imagine they didn't know that connotation for that word, too. It must have been a big seller...I remember a lot of those things still around when I was a kid in the 80s. Either that or they all survived because of their old slant 6. You don't see them around much anymore...the bodies have all rotted away, I am sure.
I saw a restored 340 NOT sell at auction on an $11,000 bid. Seems like it oughta have been enough.
The gas pump kept shutting off, holding the handled required that my back be turned to the other side of the gas pump. When I heard something pull up that sounded really strange. I mean the sound of valves whirring and clicking combined with what sounded like an engine in serious trouble singnaled that this was no regular car. The car? An original Lamborginini Countach 5000 Quattrovalvole.........such a difference from the last Countach sold here in 1990. What a car it was to see!!! Absolutely wicked.
M
You can have that car for only $90K or so if you want one.
A really really rare Lambo you will NEVER see is the Marzal. They only made one, and Prince Rainier and Princess Grace drove it around as the pace car for the 1967 Monaco Grand Prix.
It was sort of a four-seat futuristic thing on a lenthened Miura chassis. Apparently Mister....er...Senore...Lamborghini...thought it was too far out.
It's white with tan leather upholstery. I've put a little money in it and it runs really good. The "thumbs up" I get when driving it makes it all worth the few repairs that I've made which have not been bad for a nearly 40 yr. old British car.
The car club that I belong to (Great Auto's of Yesteryear) has a wonderful collection of old classics that I drool after. One guy has a 1958 Eldorado Biaritz with suicide doors, stainless steel top with a black body. It even has memory seating where the driver's bench seat will move forward when one of the rear doors is opened. It's one cool car!
Yep and that was the one, very naked looking without all the later add ons.
M
Those early Eldorado/Seville sedans like that are very pretty and cool, yes. There's one in my area too, the seemingly standard black with stainless top. I like it more than the standard cars, it seems kind of exotic for the day, reminds me of a Facel-Vega.
I had a model of a Countach when I was about 12, so that would have been around 1989. It was a very difficult model my uncle bought on a trip to Japan, and I never got it together properly, as it was very complex, with spring loaded/latching door assemblies and indivudually paned windows, etc. But I do remember I intentionally left the spoiler off when I made it. The Countach is a real piece of 70s cutting edge design, and unashamedly so in its original rectangular angular state. I don't like the add ons which try to add modernity. Cars like that, with their poster presence were great marketing, yes. Same for the Testarossa...it was on so many young walls back in the day. People will always know what those cars are, and it guarantees some market for those makers. Although, at the time, I wanted an AMG S-class more than any of those exotics.
I had the chance to buy a 1986 Rolls-Royce Silver Spirit for $26K but took a pass on it.
When I was in college in the '80s, just about every guy had a poster of the Countach in their dorm room.
I prefer the Countach's forbear the beautiful, curvaceous Miura arguably the most beautiful mid-engined car ever made...
http://www.web-cars.com/miura/blue.html
http://www.web-cars.com/miura/blue.html
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
Saw a little Nash Metropolitan coupe, actually running. If you ever want to scare yourself silly, go drive one over 35 mph.
There is part of me that wants to buy the car. Am I sick?
Even their popular-priced offering were striking
(Fiat 124 Spider, Alfa GTA/GTV).
I've heard the Miura described as what an Italian GT40 would look like.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
I think ir would be a FUN car to drive. What, 0-60 in an hour??
-juice
In a few years it would make for a curious, if not interesting, little car show piece. I doubt there are many pristine Chevettes running around.
Just to drive my "sickness" point home, I found an AMC Concorde a few years ago with 8,000 miles on the odo. It looked like it just rolled off the assembly line. Thought about buying that one too.