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I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

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Comments

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    If it were at least a successful compact car, maybe. But it's best forgotten. ;-)

    -juice
  • andys120andys120 Member Posts: 23,662
    after renting a Chevette, "It's a Corvette for the 55mph era." I thought about that a few years later when I attempted to drive one at actual highway speeds ('65-'70 MPH), the hood was so thin you could see it flexing as you drove.

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,015
    sadly, I see that on much more superior cars, like the Crown Vic/Grand Marquis/Lincoln Town Car, and the Toyota Tacoma!
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The WRX STi also, though at least Subaru has an excuse - it's aluminum and priority was put on lightness.

    -juice
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    crush it before it kills again is my advice.

    Saw a low miles Gremlin sell on Ebay, with an actual photo of the little old lady who owns it (charming actually). And what does the entire civilized world say a pretty nice base model Gremlin is worth? They say $1,500, and I'd agree with that.

    So you can imagine where that puts a Chevette.
  • corsicachevycorsicachevy Member Posts: 316
    I would not consider the Chevette an investment by any stretch. I thought about purchasing the little Chevy more for its kitsch factor than anything. The Chevette would be a toy, not a daily driver.
  • andys120andys120 Member Posts: 23,662
    someone paying more than $50 for a Gremlin but then I read that there's a nostalgia market for
    '70s clinkers.

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    You mean clunkers? :o)

    -juice
  • jlawrence01jlawrence01 Member Posts: 1,757
    As a former 1980 Chevette owner (and not ashamed to admit it) ...

    I had NO rust on the visible portions of the car. It looked in good shape. In my opinion, it was a lot better than most of teh subcompacts of the area.

    However, the underbody was very prone to rust. The LAST repair that I did was to replace the driver's side floorpan ... and totalled the car the next month.
  • jlawrence01jlawrence01 Member Posts: 1,757
    >>after renting a Chevette, "It's a Corvette for the 55mph era."<<

    I moved to Detroit in 1985. Everyone told me that my car insurance would "hit the roof" even though I had a Chevette. I was paying $250 every six months.

    I went into AAA for an insurance quote. I gave the agent all the data. He told me, "your new rate will be $1995 every 6 months." After I was revived a few minutes later, the guy said, "What did YOU expect when you drive a Corvette." Then came a sigh of relief - that's a Chevette!!
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Chevettes were notorious for rusting out the shock towers. In fact for a time there was an aftermarket shock tower business going. You won't find that with many cars. C&D mentions that this month for some odd reason.

    Aren't toys supposed to be fun? :)
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,368
    Today I saw an immaculate first-gen Audi 5000S, the old 70s one. Most of these I see anymore are thrashed, but this one was pretty mint. I haven't seen one like that for ages. Then a few minutes later I got behind an extremely clean Isuzu I-Mark coupe in traffic. Best one of those I have seen in a long time too.

    I think that Lusso is one of the most beautiful cars too, certainly in Ferrari's top 5 as well.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Oooohhhh...a 1st gen. Audi 5000S---now there's a car you want to stay away from.

    Isn't I-Mark about the weirdest name you ever saw on a car?

    Somebody said to me the other day: "There's never been a car named after a kind of dog".

    I couldn't think of one. I tried Isuzu Pup but they said no fair.

    Plymouth Poodle? Dodge Dobermann? I give up.
  • jrosasmcjrosasmc Member Posts: 1,711
    Is there anything wrong with a first-gen. 5000 that we should know about?
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,368
    I think that the mechanicals and electricals on those cars aged very poorly, especially as the cars hit about 10 years old or so. I rarely see a 1st gen one around anymore. My dad had one when new, a turbo even. Kept it for about 5 years, and had very few problems. But I bet that's just because it hadn't aged. I remember it had an unusual sounding engine, and a loud turbo...I've never seen that sound duplicated.

    The I-Mark, a winning combination of 1970s Opel design, and meaningless name.

    Hmmm...dog name on a car....was there a hideous concept called an Aston Martin Bulldog?
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,368
    ah yes there was

    image
  • nolid5nolid5 Member Posts: 148
    I think my pinewood derby racer was more attractive than that. Come to think of it it definitely was.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Audi 5000 had a serious engine/transmission defect (oil from one would leak into the other, destroying both--oh, swell!).
  • kendridkendrid Member Posts: 97
    You really need to see the rear view to get an idea of how truely ugly that car is. I used to draw cars like this when I was in 4th grade. I couldn't draw very well either.

    image

    image

    image
  • andys120andys120 Member Posts: 23,662
    during the 70s. Giugiaro's original Lotus Esprit
    was a nore sucessful example of the style.

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,368
    It reminds me of a squared off version of one of those bump'n go auto vacuum cleaners that are so trendy now.

    I saw another old Audi today....an Audi 4000 2 door sedan, from around 1981. I remember this car from when I was little too, some friend of the family had one. Haven't seen one in some time.
  • andys120andys120 Member Posts: 23,662
    Giorgio Guigiaro, the founder of ItalDesign, the most influential stylist of the 70s and originator of the aforementioned razor=edged styling.

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • jrosasmcjrosasmc Member Posts: 1,711
    I believe the 4000s were much more reliable than the 5000s- they also spawned the Quantum, right?
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,368
    I believe yes on both counts.

    Now that I think of it, I also saw a later 4000 sedan today, one of the flush headlight models, so around 85-86 I guess. It looked to still be in reasonable condition.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Yeah, 4000s are better and 4000 Quattro can actually still bring some decent money if they are in really good shape.

    Non turbo & turbo 2WD 5000s are basically worthless in the marketplace but they did make a 5000 stickshift Quattro turbo and that car might bring a fairly good price--it's rare though and usually when you find them they have a gazillion miles on them and are shabby. Even RARER is the quattro turbo or non-turbo station wagon version, a most excellent ski car and highly prized. Very often they are even restored.

    A semi-collectible is the Audi Quattro coupe, worth more than any of the 4-doors.

    Audi engines from the 80s rarely blow up, it's just the rest of the car.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,368
    I remember those wagons...very modern looking for the time, as the 2nd gen 5000 was as a whole. I rememeber them now and then when I was younger, but cannot recall the last time I saw one.

    There are a couple of the old Quattro coupes running around my area, the ones like the revolutionary rally car of the early 80s. The ones I have seen are pretty tatty. I still have the toy one of those I had as a kid.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,368
    I had to go check out ebay

    Here's a worthy 4000

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item- =2447556664&category=6055

    No old wagons of any type on ebay, nor any 80s Quattro coupes.

    Here's a neat Audi ancestor

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item- =2448143941&category=6055
  • andys120andys120 Member Posts: 23,662
    the three-popper in those was a two-stroker on which the early Saab engine of the same configuration was based, Saab licensed the design from Audi-NSU.

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Gee I'm tempted to bid on that. The only problem with these is that the engine is not so "simple" as the seller suggests. It is a roller bearing crankshaft and if the engine detonates (which it often does) the price of the rebuild parts alone, if you can even find them (good luck), will be about double the current bid on the entire car. Also people yell at you because the two-stroke is a smoker.

    I'm guessin' $2,500 would be more than enough for this car. We'll see. Too bad it's a column shift, that deters me a bit.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,368
    $2500 on the retail enthusiast market, or $2500 in a wholesale auction?

    No reserve, so it will be interesting. That style reminds me somehow of a period Audi TT.

    These aren't obscure, but I like them

    This is one of the rarest W126 colors, it is called "China Blue" I believe. Very unusual.
    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item- - - =2448382707&category=6330

    It's like a new car, and these things have a huge following, so the bidding does not surprise me.
    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item- =2446954794&category=6330
  • jrosasmcjrosasmc Member Posts: 1,711
    This isn't an obscure car, it's an obscure fact: I've now come to believe that the oldest engine that was available in the mid-90s was the Ford 300 I-6 truck engine. It has its roots in the original pushrod six that was introduced in Ford trucks back in 1952. This would technically make the 300 six older than the Chevy small-block V-8 and just as old as the Jaguar XK DOHC I-6.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,368
    Interesting

    I wonder what the oldest transmission is. One of the TH variants, I assume? I was always amazed RR used that, somehow modified I assume, in their cars. GM can be credited for good transmissions, if anything. I think for some time, most or all foreign automatics were American made. I know Mercedes didn't have their own until the early 60s, before that it was Borg Warner who made them.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    fintail--$2,500 would be retail for this level of street restoration I think, on such a narrow niche car (ten people in the world want one). Somebody *will* have to have it, however.All you need for a prosperous auction is two bidders with two egos.

    The guy's feedback is quite good, however, but really one should check this car out in person for rust and for the engine. With a bad engine you could be wiped out financially in a heartbeat and spend a year finding pieces. Risky at more than $2,500, very risky, with no upside. Worth a shot if the price is very right.

    W126---the bid is so crazy, and the seller so crazy for not taking it, it defies further comment except as a textbook case of human car folly vs. human greed. Somebody is going to be kicking themselves at the end of this auction, question is--buyer or seller? The seller's feedback is good or I'd suspect a shill here.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,368
    I could see $2500 as a fair price from a semi-interested person...but as you hint at, there has to be someone out there who really wants one of those, but doesn't have one. I think that drives it higher. I could see an enthusiast paying 4 for something like that if it is really mechanically excellent and not rotten.

    The 126 is at $14K now. That is an awful lot, but I could see it going for 10 on the market without a lot of problems. I have seen immaculate W123 wagons with under 100K and all records bring 10, and I look at this as an equal. There is demand for those old diesels. An immaculate early 126 diesel with not too high mileage and records will still go for 5-6. I like the blue one more anyway.

    The bidding is likely being done by false bidders. I notice a majority of cars I look at on ebay are bid on by people with no feedback.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Wow, astronomical price! I've never seen a W123 wagon sell for $10K or even close to that myself. Generally $1,500--$5,000 should get you anything you want in that vehicle. You can find bunches of them at www.traderonline.com. Look for "300TD" models. They're cheap. I did see a totally restored one offered last summer at $7,000 but nobody ever bought it far as I know.

    Anyway, markets are set by many sales, not one, so my one lowest and your one highest don't really matter for setting the true market values.

    The problem is that you can buy modern Mercedes diesels from the 90s, which are so much better, for around $10K and up.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,368
    2 years ago I saw a 70K mile 85 300TD wagon, black on palomino, all options, one owner, immaculate, etc, sell for 10. I saw the car personally, and it was good. It was a special car, granted, and I was taken aback by the price. Not a true market value for that model, but you'll be hard pressed to find another so nice and cared for. But at the same time, the new car that sells for such money is pretty low.

    If I wanted a diesel, I too would get something newer, a late 124 diesel probably or even an early bugeye.
  • jrosasmcjrosasmc Member Posts: 1,711
    I heard that the early '90s 350SD (W126) models did have some teething troubles. But are they still good vehicles?
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,368
    A 350SD/SDL is by far the rarest 126 sold in NA, and is the rarest 126 outside of the 560SE. I think production was 2000 units for 350SD, 3000 units for SDL. I think I recall something about that engine being prone to lots of oil leaks, but don't quote me on that. I bet Shifty might know more.

     When I bought my 126 300SE last year, there was a 350SD for sale in my town on a less than awesome used car lot that is now gone. It had like 230K on it, had many cosmetic issues including bad touch up paint and a delaminated rear windshield...and they wanted $12000 for it, about $5000 more than I paid for my immaculate but high-ish mileage 300SE. The car was gone before the lot died, so I assume they sold it...although I don't know for how much.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Yeah, a pristine TD with 70K should be worth about $6,000. So whoever paid ten is probably bottoms up at selling time. But if they don't sell it and use it for years, then overpaying market by 40% is actually somewhat irrelevant as you say. It's a useful car.

    The 350SD was a VERY troublesome car (engine failures) and is rare because nobody wanted it and Mercedes yanked it. So anyone who paid $12K for one is one sorry dude, I'm sad to say. Bad decision, he shoulda spoke to us! Stay away from the 350SD whatever you do.

    Hey, fintail, how's my DKW doing? Oh, about roller bearing cranks--they are extremely intolerant of dirt or grit in the oil and will wear out very fast without extremely good filtration. Also, roller bearings tend to squeeze the oil out, unlike shell bearings which allow the crank to ride on a film of oil.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    must....resist....bidding....must....resist....bidding.....
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,368
    From what I have seen. TDs have a big following. If a person paid 10, and kept the car up, they could likely get a lot of their investment back. They might not be able to sell it for that much in a week...but if they do some footwork, enthusiats can be found.

    I am assuming a regular 300SDL c.86-87 is a better car. Those have an enthusiast base too. Same engine as in the late W123 diesels, right?

    I was tempted by that 350SD from the street...until I saw the price, mileage, and asked the MB guy I know about the model. He said the same thing, keep away.

    At the time I was looking for an immaculate 123 or 126 6cyl gas or diesel, didn't matter. Good ones are getting hard to find. I ended up finding the 300SE, paid 7 grand for it, which I am sure is way too high based on what you see as it had 160K on it, but I did OK. I have seen only a couple as clean as mine, and knock on wood, it has been reliable and not terribly expensive to maintain.

    DKW is now a little over $700. If I saw that parked on a corner for $700, I would even buy it, even though it's really not my thing.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    $7,000 is fine for a really nice car like yours. It books out at $6K+ or so. But paying DOUBLE++ for a TD is a bit reckless. Slim chance of seeing that money, because as time goes on, a TD will be worth LESS, not more. It's just a used car is why.

    I'd be really pleased (and lucky) to get $2,500 for my spotless 300D sedan. I can't see why a wagon is worth 4X as much. (scratching head).

    must...resist..bidding...okay, I sent the guy an e-mail. JUST asking questions, I'm not bidding.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,368
    I bet if I tried I could still get my 7 grand back, too. I have done a few upgrades, like shocks and Euro lights...and next year I plan on tie rods as I think mine are worn, along with maybe plugs and wires just for the hell of it. But still, that's not bad...very little depreciation. I plan on keeping it indefinitely, but I am sure it will always be worth something to someone.

    If your 300D is really spotless and cosmetically appealing, I think you would have no trouble getting $2500 for it, especially if MB people knew about it.

    I don't get the wagon thing either, but I have seen high prices asked for the things. And strangely enough, the 124 wagons that are a year or three newer often go for (in asking price) no more, if not less...even though they are much more modern. It's like asking more for a 116 than a 126. That's not how it works.

    So what are you gonna pay for that DKW?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I was thinking of paying up to $1,500 for the Duck. I can't see it worth any more than that for a sight-unseen weirdo car. I can always dump it fast for that if it's a rat.

    I don't think I could get more than $2,500 for the Benz. There are tons of them for sale for less and the published private party Blue Book value is about $1,200 for a nice one, so it's a hard sell. But I'm not selling it cheap so I guess I'll keep it---or do like some people do, ask over Book and wait a long time to it to someone.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,368
    What year is your 300D? Is it really mint, as in lower than average miles and immaculate cosmetics/interior? Colors? I am sure you have maintained it, so I don't look at that as an issue.

    The ones I see for less than that have been neglected. I see late cars, 83-85, still being asked 3-5k if in decent shape, with the higher end being really nice cars. I am pretty picky when it comes to condition, so when I say nice, I mean it. Nice doesn't mean 'good' condition.

    If you do end up somehow getting that DKW, good luck. You'll have to run updates here.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I don't think I can pull over $3K because of the high mileage. Oddly enough, you can tell people's attitude about whether they regard the old car as "classic" or "used". If it's classic they disregard mileage. You can sell a clapped out Mustang convertible with 300K on it for a great price---but when they see one of those sturdy Mercedes diesels with 250K on it they run away---even though it can certainly handle the miles better than a Mustang. Life isn't fair. Yeah, the car is near mint. Looks about 3 years old.

    I e-mailed the guy on the Duck 2X but haven't heard a word. I'm not going to deal with someone who is totally tight lipped. I need some basic info. Mostly I'd be concerned that the entire front end, suspension and brakes need to be done, and those parts are not going to be easy. Even as a Sunday putter, you want to be in a reasonably safe car. I've already tried to kill myself in old cars (like when the Jaguar XK140 tie rod broke at 75 mph!)
  • a_l_hubcapsa_l_hubcaps Member Posts: 518
    While we're talking about cars on eBay, I'm reminded of the fact that last year I almost bought a 1987 Hyundai Excel hatchback for $32. I've always wanted to learn to drive a stick, and sometimes I think I should get a small car for those times when I need to get somewhere but don't need to bring 4,500 lbs of Pontiac Parisienne along with me. Fortunately reality set in and I realized I couldn't afford to pay insurance and parking on two cars, so I had to let someone else take that Excel for $31.

    Has anyone here ever bought a weird car on eBay on impulse? Did you regret it?

    -Andrew L
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Yeah, it costs me $500 per year for my 3rd vehicle. So you could not give me a beater that was *that* bad. Maybe if it were at least a sporty one.

    -juice
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,015
    on eBay, for $900. Cost about $250 to get it through inspection. Costs about $260 a year to insure it. I'm going to try to get historic insurance on it at the start of '04. If I can do that, it'll drop to about $24 per year.

    I think I'd start being afraid of those $32.00 cars, though! ;-) The least I've ever paid for a car (I'm not including cars that were handed down to me by various family members), was a '79 Newport that I bought from the junkyard for $250. Over the course of 2 years, I'd guess I put about $2400 total into it (not counting gas and insurance), so it ended up being a lot more than that initial $250, but still only came out to around $100 a month.
  • jrosasmcjrosasmc Member Posts: 1,711
    Hey, I once received an old, tired '86 Toyota 4x4 truck as a Christmas present! Cost me next to nothing to insure and register it, and I did not put any money in it in the year I had it.
This discussion has been closed.