I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today!

Mr_Shiftright · December 2012

My BS meter broke the needle. This "Walter Ohlinger" was actually a fictional character from a movie--no such person exists.

http://www.dallasobserver.com/2002-09-26/culture/dead-on/

As for the Mercedes 600, it was a technological tour de force, no doubt about it, but was a car of bewildering complexity.

andys120 · December 2012

As for the Mercedes 600, it was a technological tour de force, no doubt about it, but was a car of bewildering complexity.

True, but the 600 "Pullman" has to be the coolest long-wheelbase limo ever made. :shades:

uplanderguy · December 2012

The assassination conspiracy stuff is one of a zillion similar stories, but the fact that the assassination cut into the introduction of the 600 in Canada and that the fellow being talked about from M-B was there for the introduction and died a week later, is that--fact.

uplanderguy · December 2012

The Ohlinger story is out there on the net; a brief search showed it here (post #7):

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=13836

I have a distaste for the site's title, but others have told this same story. There are a zillion JFK stories out there and I've heard most of them.

Although Oswald's actions before and after the assassination clearly show guilt to some degree, one does wonder about the ear-witness testimony. I've been to the site and it does seem a perfect place to attempt to do something like that...that fence goes on a looonnngggg way, and the fence pickets are high and when I was there, the trees above were low. Interesting stuff in my lifetime, that is one thing that is indisputable.

Mr_Shiftright · December 2012

Mr. Ohlinger is a fictional character. It's a made up story from a movie.

I've driven a couple of Mercedes 600s, both Pullman and the regular-sized "sedan". It was amazing how these monstrous cars handled and accelerated, for their size.

Oddly enough, the driver's position for the Pullman is incredibly cramped! :surprise:

uplanderguy · December 2012

OK, I've seen that. But that was merely a footnote to the rest of the story.

There's certainly B.S. sprouting from many an Edmunds post, that is for certain as well.

andre1969 · December 2012

That airport limo also looks like it took some kind of hit to the front at some point in its life. The bumper/grille combo looks bent inward and upward a bit at the center.

I wonder what the overall length of that sucker would be?

fintail · December 2012

I like how everything on the car is hydraulic - good for losing fingers, if one has any to spare. Some odd German sense of humor in the car too, for age related maintenance. It probably has more plumbing than a 5000 sq ft house.

Some of that history is a bit too conspiracy based, but it is somewhat interesting that the debut of the car and MB really jumping into the modern era with a V8 coincides with the end of Camelot.

fintail · December 2012

Last night got behind one of those small 80s Caddy FWD Fleetwood limos - an oddity nowadays. I ended up passing it, as it was moving pretty slow.

uplanderguy · December 2012

but it is somewhat interesting that the debut of the car and MB really jumping into the modern era with a V8 coincides with the end of Camelot.

I was alive then but not very aware, but that general time period is so interesting to me. I think with JFK's assassination, and the demise of Studebaker's U.S. operations (for me), then the Beatles on Ed Sullivan and the introduction of the Mustang all showed just how much change there was in such a relatively short period of time. It seems like styles and haircuts in my lifetime can generally be linked to "pre-11/22/63" and 'post'. Even pop music of the early '60's is similar to late '50's IMHO.

fintail · December 2012

It's long before my time, but I see it similar. Up through the JFK years, the 60s seem to be a slightly modern continuation of the 50s - similar music and design styles in many things from houses to cars. There was a big modernization in the mid 60s, then at the end of the decade it all changed again - and maybe not for the better in terms of design and style anyway.

Via this, I see my fintail as much more of a late 50s style product, even though it was built in the 60s and has very modern tech for the period. The look is 50s.

Mr_Shiftright · December 2012

Some of these mid 60s changes were quite predictable, and were in fact predicted--like the Independents going bankrupt. It was often cited in the media that the Independents were doomed--certainly by 1955 many automotive people knew it.

But other "trends" were a total surprise to almost everyone, and those remain the most interesting to me.

But I think you guys are right--it was a cultural "shucking off" of the old, and an ushering in of everything modern--it was the ACTUAL "post world war II" world, come to life.

Beatnick to Hippie, Doo-Wop to the British Invasion, land yachts to muscle cars, segregation to integration, hot war to cold war, the foreign car invasion :shades: ----wow, what a decade!

uplanderguy · December 2012

Shifty, those things we definitely agree on!

lemko · December 2012

It's also wearing hubcaps from a full-size 1966 Ford.

fintail · December 2012

Ha! You're right, I remember those on my first car, a 66 Galaxie. Center emblem would fall out if you handled them wrong.

andre1969 · December 2012

One thing that just struck me...would a full-sized '66 Ford come with 15" wheels standard? I tried looking up tire sizes at www.cokertire.com and they're only showing 15" tire offerings for the full-sized cars (which they only refer to as "6-cyl" or "8-cyl") so, I'm presuming that's what was standard.

Disturbingly enough, the old sales brochure picture that's shows the airport limos is showing them sporting the standard 14" Pontiac hubcaps, which my '67 Catalina used to have, before I swapped out to the 15" Rally 2's.

I've heard that they don't make 14" radial tires big enough to support the weight of some of these heavier cars, although the old bias ply could. So, as a result, you had to put on a 15" rim so you could put on a larger tire that could support the weight. So, I guess at some point the old 14" rims on this airport limo were swapped out in favor of 15", so they could put radials on it.

Still, I imagine even a 15" radial might be hard-pressed to withstand the weight of this mammoth beast. I wonder how much that sucker weighs? And, what its GVWR would be?

fintail · December 2012

I think a big car did have 15" wheels. I can't remember for sure, but that sounds right.

Funny thing, my fintail has little 13" wheels - I suspect these were chosen to compensate for the low torque engines (the car is light) and maybe to make the car look larger than it is.

uplanderguy · December 2012

I was under the impression that most cars of the late '50's and '60's had 14-inch wheels, contributing to the cars' 'lowness'. I know Studebaker only used 14" wheels in '58 and reverted back to 15" the rest of the company's automotive life and advertised it as a benefit over what all the other guys were using. I'm going from memory only on the other makers' cars, though.

andys120 · December 2012

IIRC my Dad's '64 Catalina had 13" or 14" wheels, I can't remember which but they were smaller than the 15 inchers that came on my foreign cars ('65 VW followed by a '66 Triumph).

hpmctorque · December 2012

The '64 Catalina had 14". Most of the compacts (Falcon/Comet, Valiant/Lancer, Corvair, etc.) had 13".

uplanderguy · December 2012

A '61 flattop Sedan DeVille...I forgot completely about this particular body style.

I can't say I love the roofline, but I like that it's something not often seen, and I love the originality/authentic details/color.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Cadillac-DeVille-4-Window-Sedan-Ville-1961Cadilla- c-Flattop-de-Ville-Fontana-Rose-67K-orig-CA-Car-A-C-/121042644861?pt=US_Cars_Tru- cks&hash=item1c2eb42f7d

andre1969 · December 2012

I'm not crazy about that roofline myself, but good lord that is one beautiful car!

A '61-62 Caddy is one of the cars I want to have before I die. Preferably a '62 though. I thought they really sorted out the details just right that year, plus, IMO at least, much improved rooflines for the hardtop coupe and the 4-window hardtop sedan,

tjc78 · December 2012

Not my first color choice, but wow what a car.

Mr_Shiftright · December 2012

It would be very difficult to take a shabby example of a '61 Caddy and make it look decent. These are very expensive cars to restore, so anytime you see what appears to be a nice one for the same price as a small block Chevelle, it's worth a look.

fintail · December 2012

Amazing. Talk about a period piece. You'll be the only one at just about any show.

omarman · December 2012

1973 Ford Galaxie 500 2-Door is roached out but looks like it is was the real deal. C code 460 PI ordered in a Galaxie 2-door hardtop. Strange old thing.

uplanderguy · December 2012

I'm curious what she'll bring, as I can't remember seeing a 1961 anything that looks so authentic (not that I'm a Caddy expert), on eBay.

Somehow, it's appropriate that that car is in Hollywood. I can just see someone living on the same street as Jane and Blanche Hudson driving it! LOL

The whole '61 GM lineup reminds me of the Jetsons...the cars were made a bit shorter, and typically the wildness tamed down. The '62's were made more conservative. I also like '62 Caddys, especially the Fleetwood. I used to see a '62 Eldo at Hershey, black with a butterscotch-accented chrome trim piece on the side, which matched the interior color.

toomanyfumes · December 2012

Looks like it sold for $3500. Is the engine that valuable? It can't be worthwhile to restore a '73 Galaxie.

stickguy · December 2012

odd car for sure. I read the documentation, and it sounded like a seriously powerful beast. Must have sucked gas at a furious rate at high speed.

certainly a unique piece, but in that condition, and I assume lack of replacement parts, goingt o be incredibly hard and expensive to restore, and you still end up with an old police car!

maybe the engine, even not running and needing a full rebuild, is that valuable?

fintail · December 2012

To me, that Caddy looks like I would have expected it to look when maybe several months old. It's immaculate, but not overdone.

Most 1961 cars are kind of in the middle of metamorphosis - an awkward stage. Some (Chevy) handle it better than others (Caddy). You can see the vestiges of the 60s pushing through, but there's still a lot of 50s hanging on. Ford and Mopar cars are similar, save for full on 60s cars like a Continental. Mopar was probably the worst in that regard.

Regarding that Ford police car - I wonder if it is a sole survivor, or something like 1 of 2 remaining. That coupled with it being a beast, and a police car, might get someone wanting to save it.

ab348 · December 2012

My oh my, that Caddy is beautiful. I have seen one in actuality in that color and it is actually quite attractive in a Camelot-era kind of way. That car is from the era where a Cadillac was still manufacturered with parts of a quality that far exceeded the typical GM mass-market car, and it shows. Just a gorgeous survivor. Love it.

uplanderguy · December 2012

I agree, fintail. Frankly, I'd much rather own a '61 Continental in a similar color (if there was one), but on the other hand, that Caddy is so unusual, and if the 4,800 production number the seller quotes is accurate, that is amazingly low production for a GM vehicle, even a Cadillac. I'm really wowed, and I often don't get real 'wowed' at a vehicle anymore (outside of supercharged Hawks or Larks, that is!).

The 'Jetsons' analogy I used is largely due to the glassy greenhouses at GM that year. Reminded of the 'cars' they used in the Jetsons.

I think that car is jewel-like, if that can be used accurately.

fintail · December 2012

A 61 Caddy is very "Jetsons" - futuristic rather than simply garish like a 59. That dashboard and the dual rear fins, and many other design features (windows, lights) - that's real space-age stuff.

Hard to compare with a Continental - it's a matter of personal taste. The Continental is a leap towards mid 60s modernism, bypassing the optimistic Jetsons style. A more space-age Ford would be a cigar 'Bird.

You couldn't turn a beater Caddy into a nice one for that bid, or even the buy-it-now. It's an unloved bodystyle (I guess it's the last version of the "flat top" roof), so it won't sell for the high price, but it should bring something.

uplanderguy · December 2012

When we were in LA and Hollywood this past summer, after early Mustangs, we saw 'Kennedy' Lincolns more than any other old car. But this Caddy does make me realize that Caddy definitely offered more choices in bodystyles than did Lincoln. I'm thinking (although need to check) that they made a 'regular' four-window sedan that year, as well as a six-window sedan, and also made the 'short deck' versions.

I'm smitten with this Caddy!

andre1969 · December 2012

Yeah, there were two versions of the hardtop sedan...the "flattop" 4-window with the wraparound, and the more tasteful, IMO, 6-window, which had small windows just ahead of the slim C-pillar.

Then, there was the 60 Special, which had a thick C-pillar, and a quarter window built into the trailing edge of the back door. I can't remember if it was on a longer wheelbase than the regular Caddies or not.

Next, throw in the convertible and coupe models, and the Fleetwood 75 limo, and Caddy had it all over Lincoln in choices.

Oh, and I almost forgot the stubby Town Sedan, which was 7" shorter than the regular models (215" versus 222"), which I think only came with the 6-window roof.

I like both the Lincoln and the Caddy that year, but if forced to choose, I'd definitely go with the Caddy. Just a personal preference.

berri · December 2012

I'd probably go for the Caddy too (and agree that the flat top worked better on the shorter LeSabre and Impala wheelbase than on the longer ones). The 62 always seemed a very clean looking car. I also liked the 63/64 models because they were just nice looking without being overdone. As for the Continentals, I do admire them for their change, but (and I know I'm a minority here) thought they actually looked a bit better when they squared them off and enlarged them a bit in the mid 60's. I seem to recall the early 61/62 Continentals sparked some discussion back in those days as to whether they were really a large luxury car any more, or more a Buick Electra competitor. I thought Chrysler cleaned up the 63 Imperial nicely and always liked the mid 60's Imperials looks - very formal and classy IMO at least.

omarman · December 2012

The '73 Ford 460 PI was a strong engine but not valuable to collectors or restorers. It and the earlier 429 PI were typically bought on the cheap from salvage yards to power 4X4 mudders and marine projects. Both the car and the 1 bid of $3500 looked strange to me.

hpmctorque · December 2012

The '57 Mercury Turnpike Cruiser had a Jetsons look, to my eyes. And that preceded the '59 GM flat tops.

uplanderguy · December 2012

I think the Turnpike Cruiser has a 'Buck Rogers' look to it--I think the '63 Sting Ray (particularly in silver) does too. The '61 GM glassy, rounded greenhouses and the de-finned bodies make me think 'Jetsons'. It's humorous we're even talking about it here!

berri · December 2012

I think I get where you are coming from. The 61 GM Bubble tops bear a bit of resemblance to the bubble top on George Jetson's vehicle, which also lacked big fins as I recall. I didn't mind the 57 Mercury, but the Turnpike Cruiser did go a little over the top, even by late 50's styling. Personally though, I don't think I agree about the 63 Sting Ray. I think that car is still very attractive today - not quite an XKE, but still a classic in it's own right.

uplanderguy · December 2012

This is absolute sacrilege to a lot of people I bet, but I much prefer the '62 Corvette. I don't like the split window and all the fake scoops on the '63, nor the belt-high crease that runs entirely around the car, nor the looks of the hideaway headlights when "up". Opening myself to ridicule here, I'd much rather have a turquoise '64 Avanti, supercharged with the front fender emblems, and turquoise 'thick seat' interior. I particularly like the looks of the car from the rear 3/4 view--biggest back window in the industry. I know it doesn't bring what a '63 'Vette does, but I don't care.

http://bez-auto-alchemy.blogspot.com/2012_01_01_archive.html

Here's a '62 'Vette I just love--probably my favorite color too (I love how the rear end foreshadows the Sting Ray, although not visible here):

http://photos.aaca.org/showimage.php?i=6243&catid=509

andre1969 · December 2012

I just looked up the stats in my old car book. In 1961, Caddy production was:

Series 62:
6 window hardtop sedan: 26,216
4 window hardtop sedan: 4,700
6 window Town sedan: 3,756

DeVille:
6 window: 26,415
4 window: 4,847

60 special sedan: 15,500.

So, those 4-window "flattops" weren't too popular.

berri · December 2012

No - the early 60 Corvettes were nice looking cars too. The real Vette travesty to me is some of the post Sting Ray fat and cartoonish vehicles that Chevy put out under the Corvette name plate.

berri · December 2012

I don't know about output numbers, but personally I thought the 1962 Cadillac was much better looking.

uplanderguy · December 2012

I like the coupes' bubble tops in '61, but the '62 was definitely toned down and could be called more timeless IMHO.

In the Chevy world, I could like a '62 Bel Air bubbletop, and not even with a 409 like it seems most one sees now have.

uplanderguy · December 2012

No - the early 60 Corvettes were nice looking cars too. The real Vette travesty to me is some of the post Sting Ray fat and cartoonish vehicles that Chevy put out under the Corvette name plate

No kidding. I can't stand the C5 from the rear, especially on the convertible or the coupe with the small roof--it has a fat a**!

uplanderguy · December 2012

Thanks for posting the production numbers, Andre. Sheesh, the short-deck cars were even rarer...that's less production than a '61 Studebaker Hawk, and production was at an all-time low at that time.

I was surprised to see in a brochure photo online, that Cadillac even referred to the cars as 'Short Deck'. Never knew that before.

berri · December 2012

Personally, as for GM 61 and 62 full sized cars; in 61 I preferred the Chevy and Pontiac and in 62 I preferred the Olds, Buick and Cadillac. The 62 B,O and C just were a lot cleaner than their 61 predecessors. The 61 Pontiac looked better than the 62, and while the 62 Chevy was very clean looking, there's something about the tougher exterior of the 61 for me. Mopar had some interesting, if sometimes weird 61 and 62 models, but Fomoco was big time boring those two years. If I had to pick a Ford, I'd probably go for the 61. At least that's how I see them (But remember, I like the 59 Chevy, so many will probably disagree!).

fintail · December 2012

Only one oddity today - pristine looking 85-88 Maxima. Most of those around anymore are pretty trashed.

explorerx4 · December 2012

I find it kind of strange that it seems to have a vinyl roof.

I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today!

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