I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

ateixeira · September 2004

It's OK. My concern is rear ingress/egress. The door seems low. Form over function, and the form is only so-so.

The last Intrepid looked better and had a similar problems.

-juice

andre1969 · September 2004

if the rear doors actually are low on the G6, or if the high beltline, which kicks up, and the swooping rear windows just gives the optical illusion of it being too low.

I've heard a lot of people complain about entry/exit in the back seat of the Intrepid, but I just don't see it. It's rare that I'm a passenger in my own car, but I've never hit my head getting into or out of it. I did groin myself once on the back edge of the door, though! Now up front, I normally don't have a problem hopping in and out of the car, but once or twice I have whacked my head on the top of the door opening. The problem is that the top of the opening isn't level. It starts sloping off at the B-pillar, so by the time you get up to the A-pillar it's a few inches lower.

ateixeira · September 2004

It's not just getting in and out, it's also loading kids in child seats, stuff like that.

A low roof line blocks access. No wonder moms just prefer minivans and SUVs. Look at the size of the door openings!

-juice

andre1969 · September 2004

into the back of my '68 Dart once. Talk about a contortionist act! I still have the tears in the headliner to prove it, too!

Mr_Shiftright · September 2004

You need a cop to help you lower your head when you get in:)

andys120 · September 2004

Autoweek's feature on the Porsche 928.......... http://www.autoweek.com/article.cms?articleId=100840

Mr_Shiftright · September 2004

Thanks, that was very interesting. I agree with just about all of it, although in 1980 they bumped the horsepower to around 230-235. Plenty HP for me because it's very torquey power and very broad, unlike say a turbo motor. I think it handles a lot better than a 911 of the same period.

andre1969 · September 2004

a car actually getting MORE hp in '80 than in '79!

fintail · September 2004

Today I saw a mint Studebaker Lark, a Ford EXP, a very ragged MB 300CD, a pretty chrome bumper MGB, and an immaculate looking c.63 Dart

lemko · September 2004

...1970 Dodge Coronet 500 hardtop. It was rather ratty with ugly aftermarket wheels.

ateixeira · September 2004

Sad that the 928 died yet the Cayenne is thriving. A little pathetic, actually.

-juice

kyfdx · September 2004

I disagree.. not about the 928 dying, necessarily

The Cayenne is filling a niche.. Porsche drivers that need an SUV would probably be buying Range Rovers, Lexi, X5s, etc...

If by selling them Cayennes, Porsche is made financially stronger, then so much the better..

Unless you would like to see them taken over by GM or Ford?

regards,
kyfdx

Mr_Shiftright · September 2004

Well if everybody had good taste think of how different TV would be.

I THINK I saw (in a warehouse full of pretty junkie cars) a Renault Gordini. This was, as some of my fellow obscurantists might remember, a "hotrod" version of the Dauphine, (and I think there was a Gordini R8 as well) like what Abarth did to Fiats.

Actually if I could drag it out of there and clean it up I could probably sell it to some damn fool on Ebay. But alas, a damn fool already owns it and isn't finished yet destroying it and everything else he owns.

Some people!!

ateixeira · September 2004

Why would they be taken over? They were the most profitable manufacturer in the world right before the Cayenne came out.

So what if they were small? They already pool resources with VW/Audi.

-juice

kyfdx · September 2004

You have a short memory.. In the late '80s, early '90s, they were spilling red ink all over the place.. SUVs are cheap to build and have high profit margins.. Anything that strengthens the balance sheet is good for the company.

While the 928 was a great car, they made it for 17(?) years, and with the changes to the 911 (water cooled, etc) it would now be outdated and superfluous, IMHO.

regards,
kyfdx

ateixeira · September 2004

Porsche recovered without the Cayenne, not because of it.

I don't lament the loss of the 928, I'd just rather see Porsche try other segments rather than SUVs.

-juice

lemko · September 2004

"In the late '80s, early '90s, they were spilling red ink all over the place.. SUVs are cheap to build and have high profit margins.. Anything that strengthens the balance sheet is good for the company."

What does it profit a company to gain the whole world yet lose its soul?

kyfdx · September 2004

Okay.. what segments?

They co-developed the Cayenne with VW.. If they develop a sedan, where is the market for an Audi clone that costs $80K+? And then.. they would have to compete with Mercedes and BMW.. I think that is where being small hurts them.. You have to pick the low hanging fruit. SUVs were easy.

As long as they keep making 911s and Boxsters, they already make everything I would ever hope to buy from them (you know..when I hit the lottery).

regards,
kyfdx
(still looking for that lightly used 959)

ateixeira · September 2004

I agree (with them having sold their soul).

We have yet to learn the long-term costs of Porsche having "sold out" to the SUV boom.

They used to be a sport car manufacturer. The Cayenne money kept them from racing, too.

At least they re-focused on the 911 and Boxster now. I still would rather have seen a true sport sedan or a GT instead, with a boxer engine BTW.

-juice

kyfdx · September 2004

I don't see how selling the Cayenne affects Porsche's "soul".

If the extra profits generate funds to improve development of other models, every one wins.. All things must change.. I can't think of any negative changes to the current models, since they started selling the Cayenne (unless you want to go back to air-cooled).

lemko · September 2004

...would've been a lot more palatable than an SUV. They only people I see driving Cayennes are Main Line matrons or spoiled rich soccer moms. I saw that dumb commercial with the yuppie holding his cell phone to the tailpipe of his new Cayenne.

kyfdx · September 2004

I guess I just don't worry about who "else" is driving the car I drive.. Or what else the manufacturer offers..

Should 'Vette drivers be worried about Cavalier owners? Should juice be worried that he drives a "chick" car? I don't think so....

They couldn't be competitive with a sport sedan.. and the GT market is just about non-existent.

regards,
kyfdx

ateixeira · September 2004

Well, they lose focus, quit racing, spend their resources where they shouldn't be, all to come out with an SUV. Short term profits are good, at least.

Not to mention the many quality problems VW and Porsche are having with them.

Any how, Miata isn't really a chick car. Contrary to popular belief, it's a car for middle-aged married men. 59% are male, older (40+ median age), mostly college educated.

Mid-life crisis car, basically.

Unless you meant chick magnet. Nicely offset by my weight and receeding hairline.

)

-juice

kyfdx · September 2004

lol..

ateixeira · September 2004

Oh, I car pooled with a younger guy, handsome, and he'd get plenty of stares....

-juice

fintail · September 2004

I saw a pretty grey 928 GTS over the weekend...which I guess would be one of the last of that model built. It's still a good looking car, very ahead of its time for 1978 intro.

Mr_Shiftright · September 2004

That's the very fast one. That car screams, and one was clocked at Bonneville at 180+, but I think it had some mods on it, nothing radical.

andre1969 · September 2004

my first thought was his Sube! I was about to say, I saw someone getting out of a Forrester today, and while she might have been female, I had to do a double-take to make sure! And even then I'm still not sure!! ;-)

I'll never forget back when I bought my '57 DeSoto. I was 20 years old. Back then I belonged to the Maryland DeSoto club. The next youngest member was probably old enough to be my father. The rest of the club? Well, probably old enough that they remember when Hernando himself was just a tiny tot! I'll never forget when one of those old men saw my '57 and said "Many, you're gonna get some <kitty> with that car!!"

Just hearing those words uttered from a mouth that old, missing some of its teeth, and some obvious signs of gum rot here and there was almost enough to make me join the priesthood and watch nothing but public television from here on out!!

jrosasmc · September 2004

How is the DeSoto doing these days?

fintail · September 2004

I saw that 928 coming from behind me...I saw its wheels and its stance, and suspected it was a special car. I got in a turn lane and it passed me, and I saw the GTS moniker. I remember those cars being horrendously expensive when new. This car looked pretty mint, and was a nice gunmetal grey color. I wonder what one can be had for now.

Mr_Shiftright · September 2004

A really nice GTS will run you around $35K-$45K right now. New they were about $85,000, and were made 1993-1995. So they are running about the same track as an Acura NSX, both in original price and current value. They also have in common that neither one is a "hot" collectible right now.

andre1969 · September 2004

it's been awhile since I've started the DeSoto now. It needs a carburetor rebuild and some brake work. One of the rear wheel cylinders is leaking. Also needs exhaust work, something I've been holding off on for too long, now!

fintail · September 2004

That's not bad...just a little more than a pristine 500E from the same time. That's a car I have thought about now and then, as it is much different from today's E500. It's getting hard to find one that hasn't been messed with, though.

kyfdx · September 2004

Ford Pinto "Cruising Wagon". The one with the sheet metal covering the rear windows and a porthole, like the customized vans of that era.

In new gray primer.... with a for-sale sign on it.. Instant classic!!

Seriously, I only see a Pinto of any type about once per year.

andre1969 · September 2004

is the only one that I ever thought was really cool, and that I'd actually consider driving! Haven't seen one of those in awhile, though. There was a gray Pinto wagon in my old neighborhood that I'd see every time I drove up that particular street. Judging by the way leaves and debris were collecting around the tires, I don't think it moved anymore!

Mr_Shiftright · September 2004

500E? Oh, you can buy those for WAY less than a GTS or Acura NSX, perhaps 1/3 the price. They aren't collectibles, so you just be patient and they'll drop in value to give-away prices. The SEC coupe will hang a bit tougher but even that is already less than 1/2 the price of an NSX. People can "ask" what they wish but they aren't going to get it. These are simply not "exotic" cars like the NSX or GTS and won't ever have the market pull or desirability for that reason. They are just nice used cars.

ateixeira · September 2004

andre: I went to see Ellen perform live, and the parking lot was full of Foresters. ;-)

Just kidding, BTW.

Time warp - I saw a showroom-clean 1984 Ford Escort last night. It was shockingly new, steel wheels with no rust, spotless inside and out. No doubt this owner has treated his car better than most Ferrari owners do.

Absolutely bizarre.

-juice

Mr_Shiftright · September 2004

Obviously abducted by aliens in 1984 and recently returned to earth. No other plausible explanation.

ateixeira · September 2004

My jaw just dropped. For a second there I thought it was a new Malibu Maxx.

Just kidding. ;-)

So, if a regular one is worth $100, you think this prime sample is worth, what, $150 maybe?

-juice

Mr_Shiftright · September 2004

Actually if it were pristine and like new you could probably get $1,000 for it, fair market value. Maybe $1,200 if the buyer was drunk and giddy. But if someone waved $650 hard cash in the air, I wouldn't turn it down.

jrosasmc · September 2004

Here's a bizarre sighting- I saw a '92 Alfa Spider at a local bookshop yesterday that had an automatic tranny. Never knew the '90s Spiders could be adapted to using autos- obviously not too many of them.

ateixeira · September 2004

Does the gear lever still grow out of the dash like a tree? I always thought that positioning was funny.

-juice

glaker · September 2004

On my drive in the Berkshires (western Mass, eastern NY) on Sunday, I came up behind an old silver Mercedes Gullwing. I followed it for about 10 miles. What a beautiful car/design, especially for one that's 50 years old. It was in outstanding shape (although I didn't actually see inside it) with a regular New York state license plate. Wonder what it's worth?

kyfdx · September 2004

I'm amazed you saw one on the road. Are you sure it wasn't a replica of some type? I was under the impression they were in the $500K range.

Mr_Shiftright · September 2004

$250,000-$300,000 for a clean, correct one, $125K-150K for a beater. Maybe $350K at fancypants auction with TV cameras and freely-flowing booze. Any car with a documented racing history, of course, would be more.

There are replicas that actually look pretty good, out of Los Angeles I think. They even made one with an American Slant 6 engine some years ago!

But if you are all shopping for one, try the roadster 300SL instead. More fun, more room, less engine and transmission heat to suffocate you...and "cheaper", too. One of the rare cases where the drop top is cheaper than the coupe (other one comes to mind is '63 Vette).

kyfdx · September 2004

What the heck... I mean, just for a project.. Maybe drop $50K on a parts car, just in case...

Mr_Shiftright · September 2004

Yeah, that's $150K for the beater, $50K for the parts car, and maybe another $150K for the restorer. You'll have a nice car, though.

Interesting Trivia: An OEM distributor CAP for a 300SL is $1,200.

ateixeira · September 2004

*gasp*

Is it even legal to charge that much?!

-juice

lemko · September 2004

...you charge as much as the market will bear. Most likely there are only three OEM caps left and five guys fighting over it.

andys120 · September 2004

who likes the 300SL roadster even better than the Gullwing, tho I have to admit that the 'wing is a fun car to see.

On a much more mundane level I spotted a ca.'64-'66 Buick Special four door hiding under a tarp and a nice Volvo Amazon 4-door with Ivory paint and a pair of huge fogs. It looked very nice and straight but not over restored.

Volvo nomenclature of that era is confusing to me, Im not sure
if it a 144 or a 142 if it has four doors.

I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

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