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I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)
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I likely won't buy one though, as I want to find one of these first
Both 300SLs are awesome cars. I actually like the kind of odd 300 SL hardtop, too.
Today I saw a lemon yellow Datsun 510 sedan and a white 710 coupe. Lucky me!
Oh, I like old Datsun 510 coupes! I'd like to have one of those (fat chance finding one that isn't a)being raced or b) trashed.
Could you find me an immaculate sunroof 300SE LWB?
The 510 I saw was pretty decent...whitewall tires and full wheel covers too. Of course, it was a sedan. Are you sure you don't want a 710? I bet it could be had for nothing.
500E---hmmm....looks to me, just perusing the market here, if you wanted a very clean low mileage car, say 70K-80K, and you had cash in hand, you could hammer one down for around $16K-17K by grinding the owner. Money talks when it comes to big old sedans. I wouldn't even bother to answer an ad for $30K, just disregard those. Those cars are not for sale.
A 300SE LWB is pretty rare (I presume you mean the old ones) but I think you could get one for about $7,500 or so, since the coupes are selling around $13K-$16K. Might be a troublesome car, though, and probably rusty. Take a bit of searching though. Most have probably disappeared, as 4-door are generally not saved or restored.
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Mercedes 300 SEL '70
6.3 green w/cognac leather
walnut burl wood, runs well,
$5500 (XXX) XXX-XXXX
Whaddaya think??!!
regards,
kyfdx
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Here's a couple from ebay:
500E
Another...a rusty 124! I've never seen one before
kyfdx...that sounds very interesting for a 6.3 (nice color combo), but with a price that low on a 6.3, it must have a lot wrong with it. Shifty can probably write a book about how much of a money pit those can be. I somehow have little attraction to those. They seem to have all survived, and they are just so high maintenance.
The 300SE LWB I want isn't called a SEL, it's just an SE that was stretched a couple inches. It's a fintail W112, not a W109 like a 6.3. It was made between 63-65, production maybe a couple thousand units, of which maybe a couple hundred made it to NA. I bet there's no more than a couple dozen roadworthy ones out there today. Very complex, with air suspension, elaborate interiors, and the big old M189 3L inline 6. But really cool with all of that. Like the one in this link: http://www.300se.org/112015-12-008205/Photos_Body_008205.htm
Click on the pics to see the coolness. I love the interior color and the wood. The site that is hosted on also has a lot of info about the W112 300SEs, for anyone who cares.
Close... but, no cigar
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The local MB specialist has a 300SE LWB...but it is way past redemption, with its missing engine and rotten interior. Sad.
That '94, egads, did they use that for their snow time grocery getter? My mom's '88 300E doesn't have that much rust, even in the midwest, with 350k and having spent a third its life not garaged. I wonder if they dipped that thing in salt or something. Perhaps it was a coastal car?
That 94 looks to have much more rust than even my 40 year old fintail. Look at the trunk...wow. Maybe it was caught in a flood or dunked in saltwater or something. I see the car is in Ohio, which can't be a good thing...but it has no plates. I've never seen a 124 with more than a little bubble or surface spot.
Not a car for the faint-hearted.
RE: 500E--I don't really get your obsession with low miles here. Low miles can be a problem. It's not necessarily a good thing with a complex car like a 500E. I'd rather see you in a car that has been in steady service and has been steadily serviced.
It's like people who make the mistake of buying cars out of museums. Myriad problems develop with seals, gaskets, rubber and gummed up parts.
An old car is like an old boat. If it isn't worked, it rots. Time is just as good a killer as miles in other words.
It's one thing for a car's paint to start fading and thinning, down to the primer, and then the metal starts to scale up. But when the paint's still nice and shiny, that just bothers me!
I've only seen one other modern MB so rusty...a 90 300SEL which came out of Montreal. Apparently they use a lot of chemicals on the roads there in winter or something. This car was very rusty...the whole front end was bubbled, along with the wheelarches, area around the sunroof, and area around the rear windshield. It probably had $5K worth of rust repair on it...and who knows how it was structurally.
That 500E has something troubling in its past. I think it would take more than a trunk leak, as the sills are rusty too. Who knows what could lurk under the car?
Today's oddball...a very nice (condition-wise) Plymouth Arrow.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
But, as they say, if you can pay to play, it's your game!
But I'd rather spend $15K on a pristine show quality 300SE LWB than 30K+ on a 500E, honestly. I've already got the everyday car I need in the 126. A 500E is too extravagant a toy for me.
I saw a pretty blue Austin Healy 100-4 this morning
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
Randy
BMW Turbos: Not rare by collector car standards but rare by most American car standards--1,672 produced, 1973-1974.
Alpines, Tigers and Algers: It's pretty easy to fake a Tiger using an Alpine (and this is commonly done as a Tiger is worth 4 to 5 times the price of an Alpine) but if you know what to look for you can spot a fake. First there's the VIN number that tips you off, but that can easily be changed, as there is only one place on the car that has a VIN number. Another more subtle tip off is that the Alpine has a trap door behind the passenger seat to access the battery. A Tiger has a fuel pump in that same place and the batter in the trunk. So you could probably spot a cut off battery box on the frame. On the later MkII Tigers, that trap door itself isn't supposed to be there, so you could spot a welded up floor. But outwardly, no, not really, you can't tell.
Old 126 cars do hold their value well for their age and compared to other comparable lux cars from the same period, but it's nothing special. They are still very common and all, they have held up so well. They can also take a lot of neglect before they give up the ghost, so there are sickly ones plying the roads. That ends up driving down values for all, as they are not economically feasible to get right once they've been ruined. They cost a fortune to fix if they are ruined, and maintenance isn't cheap, but if you maintain them, they will go forever. Mine has almost 180K on it now, and it is in awesome condition. Prices on late cars are almost comparable to early 140 (92-on) cars, so they might equal out in time. I've seen immaculate 560SELs still fetching 12K, and you can get a 140 for that pretty easily. SECs still bring a premium too. I think they really were the pinnacle of MB craftsmanship and quality, with style too. They are a timeless design...they still look like 'old money' even today.
It's not such a hot car, but it has a certain charm, and what an awesome instrument cluster
Pimpy non-taxi Checker
One you don't see often
You don't see these early hardtops either
Neat and expensive
One of the last Pierce Arrows...I think someone did OK with it
Interesting ad...you'd have to be insane
Extremely neat little thing
Another Italian oddball
Project DeSoto with potential
Converts have to be rare
You rarely see these in this condition...not saying that's a bad thing all in all
Another nice Andre-mobile
These things are coming out of the woodwork
The center door concept was interesting. The price shows how low the market has gone for common old timey cars
This may have once had a nice custom body, but I don't think this is it. This really rubs me the wrong way....bad proportioning, it doesn't seem right. I'd also expect a P1 to be longer
Nice car, dreamer price
And that wasn't the only thing that tempted me that day. A bit later, Grbeck and I saw a dark brown '77 Olds 98 coupe. It had a beige landau top that needed to be replaced, but the owner had new material in the trunk. It had around 80,000 miles on it. Interior was fairly basic for a car like this...power windows, but non-power door locks, and something I've never seen before...a TWO WAY power seat! It only had a fore/aft adjustment, no front/rear tilt. What's the point? I'm sure a 6-way would've only been a few bucks more.
The owner only wanted $1800 for it. I was thinking that it might make a good spare car, but realistically, I already have enough of those! Body looked rust-free, although the rear bumper was starting to show through. The a/c blew, but it wasn't a "cold a/c" (I know Shifty would like that term ;-) And it just had an Olds 350 under the hood. I've heard these things could move out pretty nicely with the 403, but I guess a 350 should still be adequate. Probably no worse than the 360-2bbl in my '79 NYer.
There were also two Pontiacs of that era: a '77 Bonneville sedan in an emerald green that I really like, but it was a base model, and an '80 Bonneville Brougham coupe, brown, fully-loaded. Main problem with these two was that they both had Pontiac 301's, an engine that, rationally or not, I have a fear of! The '77 had a 2-bbl and the '80 had a 4-bbl. The coupe was really nice, and under the hood looked almost brand-new! The sedan was okay, but looked like it might have been repainted toward the back. And the interior had that typical problem where the different vinyl and plastic trim pieces seemed to fade at different rates, to different shades.
One other period car that was pretty sweet was a 1981 Electra Park Avenue, black with the Buick Magnum wheels, and a beige leather interior. The owner wanted $3995 for it. It also looked darn near new. It had a 307, which I guess would be a little taxed in a car that heavy. My grandma's 85 LeSabre, which was a few hundred lb lighter, seemed adequate with that engine, but I think that was about the threshold for it.
That LeBaron wagon is pretty cool, too, although the woodgrain is really overdone. As bad as the Aspen/Volare were (although really, it was only the first two years that were the serious rusters), it seems like the more luxurious Diplomat/LeBaron were much better-built. I always thought they were more of a class act than other upscale compacts of the era, like the Granada, which was downright tacky, and the various luxury packages they tried on the Nova/Phoenix/Omega/Skylark. I saw a '77-79 Diplomat coupe once with leather seats! That must've been really rare, for a car in that class.
The art-deco detailing on that Terraplane is really beautiful and I agree w you about the instrument panel, verry cool!
That Springfield (MA/USA!) Rolls has a very nice
shape for a 1927 car, it looks like it's late 1930s or even '40s equivalent so perhaps it was rebodied at some point. I think I like it a lot more than you do.
Maybe someone will pay the premium for that SEL just to get the low miles but, like Shifty, I'd worry about a car that's been driven so little.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
I always thought the little window B-pillar area on those Frazers of that design was removable with the windows rolled down, making it a hardtop. But I could be wrong...the car was made more than a quarter century before I was born and all haha
That 560SEL is maybe worth in the high teens, to a 126 enthusiast. A SEC or SL with that mileage won't bring that money, not to mention a sedan. It claims to be maintained by the book, but it is still too expensive. The most beautiful blue with cream interior 89 560SEL with like 70K on it sold on ebay for around $12K several months ago. That was more like it.
Today's oddball was a late Lincoln Versailles, the kind that was less like a Granada than the first year.
The Seville was a "wanna be Rolls" and Linlcoln imitated that look which looked frumpy and old-fashioned on a Silver Cloud which at least had the stature (height) to pull it off.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
On the other hand, 560SLs, if really nice, can pull big money here in California, up to $25,000 no problem for a jewel. They were the best of the V8s SLs of that lineage/body type, and everyone knows it...so the demand is high.
Perhaps the best and fairest observation I can offer on the 560SEL is that it does not even appear in any credible collectible car guide. There's hardly a whisper of interest I think among collectors. It's more a car for someone who wants to "look rich for cheap", or as we used to say, a "baker's car".
Nothing wrong with that, not at all, but don't forget to practice the "cheap" part.
Just remember, you lose an engine, it's $16,000 to rebuild it.
560SEL will of course never be a real collectible, probably never even reaching fintail status, along with the rest of the 126 sedans. But...if you can get a minty one in the low teens, you can do a lot worse for the money. I have my preference for my 6 cyl 126, though. Not as fast, but less complex and more durable it seems.
Another thing a bit odd about those cars, on the 'vert, at least, is that it looked like there was a bulkhead running between the two B-posts (the part of the post that remains for the rear doors to attach to) and it looks like the front seat is actually stationary, built into it. This was probably done to beef up the rigidity of the car, but I'm sure it would also make it a nightmare for taller drivers!
Too bad I couldn't make it to Carlisle. Had a doctor's appointment that morning. Was it the Fall Meet or the GM show? I had a 1979 Oldsmobile Ninety-Eight Regency with all the options. Did that '77 have a 350 or a 403? Mine had the 403 - an excellent engine.
A set of pistons was $3600.
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I've heard the cylinders on the 403 are "siamesed". What exactly does that mean? Does that mean that there's no water jacket between them, or does it mean that the pistons actually touch each other?
Oh yeah, Lemko, the Hershey show is coming up this weekend, and I'm coming up again this Saturday. Let me know if you want to meet up with us!
Geeze, I've got something scheduled this weekend as well! Maybe I can get out of it. What day were you planning on going? I'll have to look at my schedule. I believe a buddy of mine from the Cadillac-LaSalle club will be there.
Porsche engine -- you can do a good rebuild for around $8,000. The 3 liter engines are great. It's rare you would need a crankshaft. These are 200K engines easy and the cranks may last almost indefinitely. The engine would be the last thing to worry about on an 80s Porsche.
Big Benzes---my favorite older Benz sedan, if you want a combination of decent looks, reliability and the capability of pounding modern roads at high speed, would be the 300E model. It's not as clumsy and complex as a 560SEL, better supported by the dealer and aftermarket, and to add icing on the cake, often priced below a 560SEL. And almost double the fuel mileage of the 560, with only .2 of one second lesser acceleration. One of the best Benzes ever made IMO. Made up to 1992 I believe.
As for Porsches, I once encountered an '85 911 that had 215k miles on it when I was last in California six years ago (LA). I asked the owner about it; he said he had bought it new, had never rebuilt the engine or tranny, and said that the whole drivetrain was still very stout.