Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/22 for details.
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/22 for details.
Options
Comments
On the positive side, your car should still be in warranty for another year, even if you just buy it straight out.
regards,
kyfdx
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!
Edmunds Moderator
If the re-lease monthly payments are near what I can obtain on a new car lease (of a comparable car), of course I will get the new car. However, if the re-lease payments are significantly lower, then I would be tempted to re-lease the car. Any idea what the residual would be on another 3-year lease? Since usually a car loses a lot of value during the first year or so, would the residual for years 4-6 be better than the first 3 years? The current lease has a residual of .62 for a 36K mile/36 month lease. Also, is the residual on the re-lease set or is it negotiable?
Again, thanks for your help.
The reason you want to contact BMWFS first, is that they won't want to step on a dealer's toes, if they are also working with you on the car. Chances are, the dealer is going to want to make some profit on any kind of deal, which you may be able to cut out going straight to the bank.
Most banks use a set dollar amount for used cars, with a variance to take into account any mileage differences. Usually, as long as the car has a certain amount of equipment (auto, leather, etc), the residual is the same for all cars of that model with the same mileage regardless of extra options. Also, resale values for six year old cars can vary greatly, so the banks tend to be much more conservative on residual values (meaning: lower), which tends to push up the lease cost. Plus, there is usually not any manufacturer incentives on a used lease (CPO might be an exception), which also negatively affects them in comparison to new. Usually residuals are never negotiable. They may be different from different banks, but they are what they are.
Hope this helps a little,
kyfdx
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!
Edmunds Moderator
The dealer is the only one who can certify the car and it must be retailed through the center for CPO. The CPO is a great way to go if you want to keep the car and it's good for the dealer, too so they should be very helpful. They should be able to get #'s for you easily, as I've stated. You need the figures to decide but generally the used car lease may not be as attractive as a new car program.
regards,
kyfdx
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!
Edmunds Moderator
Sports + premium package. I've been told that dealers cost is 8% below MSRP. That said, I have seen this car at 48,375 MSRP (with premium+Sports package) and -8% (cost) would be approx 45,000. Would I be doing good getting it at 45-46K??????
** Also, you are saying NOT to contact the dealer ** ..... the dealer doesn't own the vehicle and doesn't have the title, BMW does, the dealer has been "out" of this deal since you tatoo'd the paperwork, anything they get involved in will cost you $$$ ...
Deal directly with BMWFS, they will be looking at the auction reports about 3/4 weeks before the lease end, then they will: 1.) decide what the loss could/might be vs residual .. 2.) they are looking for a buyer, preferably you. Thats because it costs money to transport, detail, then spend auction fee's and rep fee's to take it and sell it there ..... if the figures are right, you can have it "certified" at the Bimmer store and pay for the warranty ....... drop the vehicles info over at Real World Trade-In Values, and we can go from there.
Terry.
My lease is up 12/29/2004. I'll wait until 3 to 4 weeks before lease-end to see what BMWFS will offer me to re-lease (I already have the buy-out amount, it is in the contract, if I choose to buy the car). My car is in excellent condition. However, because it is stick shift, it probably would be harder for BMW to resell. This might motivate them into giving me a better lease rate. However, after the 6 years is up, it may be even more difficult to sell with a stick, therefore the residual may be lower, causing the monthly lease rate to be higher.
The only reason I want the dealer involved is so the car can be CPO'd. I want that protection.
So, for the lease, it really comes down to price... If they offer me a significantly lower monthly on a new lease, then I re-lease. If not, then the car goes...
Or, I can buy the car outright for $28.5K, but it would cost me sales tax ($2.3K+), cost of CPO ($1.1K+), and new tires ($1K+)(the tires have 31K original miles and still over 3mm tread depth).
...And then there is the other factor...my wife. She wants me to let the BMW go and buy a mini-van instead. She says its better to haul the kids and cargo. But I love my BMW.
Or, I can buy the car outright for $28.5K, but it would cost me sales tax ($2.3K+), cost of CPO ($1.1K+), and new tires ($1K+)(the tires have 31K original miles and still over 3mm tread depth).
... And then there is the other factor... my wife. She wants me to let the BMW go and buy a mini-van instead. She says its better to haul the kids and cargo. But I love my BMW.
=============================
Ah ha.! Now we have some Real Deal info ... it's a 02 530i with a handshaker and 31 klicks and your buy-out is $28,5 (as of today) ..
$28,5 is "about" auction money, so that price is fine, you keep saying "lease" forget the lease on a used vehicle, they don't work, you might find a better lease deal on the new ones come December ..
And speaking of December, BMWFS will looking at the auction reports in late November and if you do it right, you should get a better pay-off during that time ... hmm, the holidays, it's a handshaker, auctions are slow until mid January, prices have dropped since July, you get the picture .. and no, don't get the dealer involved unless it's for the CPO and that will happen last ..
Then of course, you have the "wife" factor and that I can't help ya with .l.o.l.... but at least you have enough info to defend yourself.
Terry.
Re-leasing was just an idea, that now I realize may be a bad idea.
Another question, then. Terry, when you say: "And speaking of December, BMWFS will looking at the auction reports in late November and if you do it right, you should get a better pay-off during that time." Are you saying that the buy-out price is negotiable? But I though it was set in the lease contract?
$31,294 .? then have Edmunds cut you a check for it .l.o.l. .. there's not a dealer between Seattle and San Onofre that will put $31,0 into a 02 530i with 31k "and" a handshaker, not when they can buy them in Riverside for the $28ish figure ... $36,0 is an *asking* retail price, and most dealers will cut them form the herd for the $32/$33 range because of the el' Manual tranny .....
Most buyouts are negotiable -if- (the word being here is, IF) they are done properly, that means they look at the auction reports for the month and make a decision, do we run it off to the auction and see X or do we get a full blown buyer now - so it will depend on current market values "then", not now .. in your case it's with BMWFS and they will negotiate if it's "you and them", get the dealer involved and you will get shut-down .. they know how many times you call, they keep notes and hold information, as most do, and of course there trying to keep business for their dealer network, it's just smart business ....
What the Bimmer might be worth in December, no one can say .. the 05's will be on the ground and based on the new style, there not killing anyone .. if I was to guess -and- it's "only" a guess, I would say the deep $26ish range, so you "might" see the $27ish range, I dunno and I hate guessing .l.o.l... and no, their not going to take $24 for a $27,0 vehicle .............................
Terry.
It's too bad that there's not more demand for a "handshaker" transmission and as a result the resale value suffers. The car is more lively and fun to drive with a stick. There is nothing like driving the canyon roads with a stick. And for me, that was a big selling point on getting the 530i. In fact, when I leased the car back in December 2001, I was able to get the car at just $1K over invoice because it had the stick and was not high in demand.
They are only available to the original purchaser or lessee. The cost for the 5-series is $2749.
That is pretty pricy, but if you can negotiate a lower buyout at the end of your lease, you can have your cake and eat it too (well, except for the $2749).
regards,
kyfdx
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!
Edmunds Moderator
regards,
kyfdx
It may sound expensive, but keeping the dealer out of your lease buyout deal might save you enough to make up for it.
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!
Edmunds Moderator
Does the new warranty have to be bought before the expiration of the 4yr/50K warranty? Does it require that the car be dealer serviced during the extended warranty period?
The dealer can buy a BMW lease for less than the customer can. BMW financial can gain nothing from negotiating with the buyer because each BMW center is obligated to buy the car back at the end of the lease for either the residual or current MMR. So, why would they sell it to the lessee for any lower amount than what was stated in the contract? Furthermore, if you're going to have the Certified (which is more than just an extended service contract and cheaper) than it MUST be retailed through a Center.
I can see the general advice is eliminating a party to the transaction but in this case it's best to at least let the dealer try to help because the service they can provided cannot be matched outside of their assistance. And, yeah, they'll make some money.
It seems are boy Livinbmw is a little confused, maybe alot ...
The Bimmer dealer is NOT obligated to buy anything .. but they do have FIRST option to purchase the vehicle for mmr and/or the residual - or send it south .. what that means is: it gives the dealer another opportunity to sell or re-lease the vehicle to the original customer, with little or no expense ... thats why I said: keep the dealer "out" of the deal, they will only have an interest in the vehicle "if you" have an interest in it ~ are you getting it now.? ...
This is nothing new, it's the same for every lease co. out there ..... the same goes for the Jag, Chevy, Benz, Mazda, Lincoln, Ford dealers, it's an another opportunity for the dealer to sell the vehicle again and it gives the lease co. a chance to move a vehicle quickly and not pay for the cost of transport, auction fee, detail, service and the rep fee's, and depending on the time of the year, type of vehicle, condition, it can cost $700/$900/$1,200+ a vehicle, or more .......
Every dealer gets a lease list every month for all of their "own" lease customers ... some might be 30 months "out", some might be 20 months "out" and in your case, your 4 months "out" and dealers are just looking for another opportunity to sell/lease another vehicle, it's smart, it's just good business and you can't blame them for the attempts .. hey, I've done it a thousand times .l.o.l. ... by the way, those were mmr prices that I gave you, so you have all the information that one could grasp for the next few days or so ..........................
Terry.
regards,
kyfdx
P.S.: For those of you not familiar with rroyce (Terry), he is a dealer principal that knows more about the car business than anyone else on Edmunds. His advice is almost always "right on the money" and has saved me money more than once. (also cost me money, when I ignored it..LOL).
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!
Edmunds Moderator
Just to be a little more specific so maybe their is a better understanding on how BMW Financial and BMW North America are different about lease and balloon notes; Each Center in the country has a lease portfolio and they can only reject a very specific and controlled number of lease returns each month. Generally, the Center is eager to have the inventory because as you know from high auction prices, the lease returns are the best way for a dealer to enhance their used car inventory, just ask the people at Crevier BMW or Momentum BMW. Look at the Certified Pre-Owned sales for BMW over the last three years and it's clear that the dealers are increasing sales and therefore need more inventory. In addition, the sales that do have BMW Financial vehicles or BMW North America Company cars are usually closed and only for BMW dealers.
I stand by my contention that I would want to have the most information possible in making the decision concerning certification of a lease end vehicle and would want the dealers offer for evaluation.
I'm not confused at all.
" buy them in Riverside for the $28ish figure "
There's been 2 (only 2 and probably at closed dealer only auctions) similar cars there at Riverside recently and one of them did sell at 28 but there was also another black one that went for 31 and I'll bet that the higher dollar one had a sport package. Sport is a big deal on a 530i. Plus, on top of the auction price, there's fees, transportation and reconditioning, right? I'd say the 28 figure is sort of a "low ball".
I just got an offer in the mail today from BMWFS to buy additional lease miles for .16/mile instead of .20 if I go over. Normally this can only be done at least 10 months from lease-end, but they made a mistake by sending the mailers out to everyone, so they will honor it.
At my current usage, I estimate the car will be over by about 1.5K miles (37.5K on a 36K lease) unless I severely curtail my driving these next few months. However, it I decide to let the car go at lease-end, maybe I shouldn't be so tight with putting the mileage on the car to stay within my allotment (currently I split my driving mileage between 2 cars), since I would not care that the car would be worth less with the higher mileage.
If I decide to buy the car, I probably would not want to run up the mileage before lease-end. But if I decide to let the car go, then would it be a bad thing to increase my driving of the car to get extra mileage out of it (and buy the extra mileage at .16/mile)? Free maintainance on MY2002 5-series was 3-years/36K, but warranty is 4-yrs/50K.
Bud, your singing to the choir here .. you don't have to sell me, I buy and sell 50/60 Bimmers a month .. I understand your view, but in this case it doesn't help Pen101 one bit ~ lets be honest here, thats the dealers glasses your lookin' thru ..
Sports Smorts, unless it's a pre-sold vehicle, handshakers aren't breakin' any sales records right now, and dealers just aren't going to "belly-up" to the bar and drop big cash in one ... as far as what it "might" do at the auction, thats just a throw of the dice, because they aren't burning any barns down in Dallas, Miami, Denver, Boston or at the big Manheim .. obviously none of your money is coming out of the "Hip National Bank" for "any" decisions here .l.o.l.. you will get whole different point of view when it's your money invested and your a "real" decision maker and no longer a cheerleader ..............
Terry
2) If you decide to buy the car and think you might buy the extended warranty or have it CPOed (result will be the same), you will probably want to extend the maintenance plan to match the warranty. On an '02 3-series, this costs $1384..I'm not sure of the charge on a 5-series, except that I am sure it is more. I'm not necessarily recommending the extended maintenance plan, but if you are going to the dealer for warranty work, it usually pays off.. Especially since it covers brakes for the duration. If you are going to extend the maintenance plan, you have to do it before your current maintenance plan expires at 3yr/36K miles.
regards,
kyfdx
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!
Edmunds Moderator
Where can I find invoice pricing information on the 5 series. Also, what is the going price for the 5 series in the Northern NJ/Manhattan area?
Thanks in advance.
If your not a BMW dealer and your moving 50 to 60 'bimmers a month that's a BIG #. I probably should be asking you about a job instead of verbally sparring here.
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!
Edmunds Moderator
This question sort of fits in with the current discussion: what is are the resale pluses or minuses for SMG? I can see that MT limits resale, but not sure how SMG is seen. I am liking SMG as it has an auto mode for other users besides myself, yet it allows manual shifting when I want to get the most out of the car. But, resale issues are an unknown for me, so I ask.
Thanks, John
Alternatively, can you point me in the right direction to determine invoice prices?
Thanks
Thanks.
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!
Edmunds Moderator
I appreicate as much input as possible. You can never overkill with too much advice.
I got my current car through ED but had to order it from a US dealer, pay for it then, eight weeks later, flew to Munich and picked it up. From there I shipped it back to the US and eventually picked it up at the dealer's.
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!
Edmunds Moderator
It sounds like getting the 2004's below invoice is not going to be as easy as it was with the 2003's since they were giving $3-$4K rebates on the 2003's due to the change of model.
I'm about to lease my first b-b-bimmer, a 525i (Black sapphire metallic, Black leather, Premium package, Steptronic auto.; Xenon; Satellite radio prep.).
My company is leasing the 525 for me. It will pay for about half the drive-off, and the monthly payment MUST be at or below $450 INCLUDING tax.
Despite my company paying for the lease, I still want to get the BEST deal since I might take over the payments at some point as well as I'll probably purchase the 525 at the end of the lease.
Is the following deal good?
Here are the numbers of the best quote in my area (L.A.):
Cap. cost: 42,435
Bank fee: 525
Total Cap: 42,960
Cap reduction: 5,756.36
Net Cap.: 37,203.64
Residual (61%): 27,477.45
Total Depreciation: 9,726.19
Monthly Depreciation: 270.17
Monthly Rent: 145.53
Subtotal: 415.70
Tax: 34.30
Monthly Payment: 450
Cap Reduction: 5,756.36
Tax: 474.90
Doc Fee: 45
License: 331
Gov. Fee: 5
1st Payment: 450
Total Drive-off: 7,062.26
Money Factor: .00225
Term: 36 months
Mileage: 10,000/yr. (which will not be a problem)
The salesman said that he was making just $900 over invoice, but according to my calculations, there's $260 unaccounted for--could this be an unstated acquisition fee, and if it is, then is $260 PLUS $525 (stated bank fee) a high price ($785) to pay for the privilege of a BMWFS lease?
$900 or $1,160 (with the mysterious $260) over invoice: is that good?
Is the "bank fee" usually added to the cap. cost? I've received quotes in which the bank fee is NOT added to the cap. cost rather it is added to the drive-off.
I found the buy rate (.00210) at one of the Edmunds' forums (thank you to the person who supplied it) and mentioned it to the salesman. He said that since he was waiving the security deposit, the money factor is increased .00015 (which I knew from the aforementioned post). But later I figured out that if I pay the refundable security deposit to get the lower money factor, I'll save about $360 over the lease term AND get my deposit back. Is there a reason NOT to pay the deposit? Has anyone had any problems getting the deposit back?
Any suggestions?
Thanks for your patience with my way-too-long post--it's the shaky nerves from being so close yet feeling so far away.
What is the MSRP of the car? Can't check the numbers without that.
Cap cost reductions are usually a bad idea, but considering your circumstances with the employer picking up the payment, it makes sense.
It looks like you are on the right track..
regards,
kyfdx
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!
Edmunds Moderator
Sorry I neglected the MSRP--it's $45,045.
BTW the invoice is $41,270 (incl. $695 destination).
Is $900 - $1,120 over invoice a good deal for a 2004 525i?
If the mysterious, unspecified $260 in the cap. cost is indeed the acquisition fee, then is the acquisition fee ($260) PLUS the (stated) bank fee ($525) too high ($785)?
Thanks again for the help--I'm feeling a little less shaky.
Of course the move was done such that my monthly payments were NOT changed while my total drive-off was actually a bit HIGHER ($43.31)--AHA!
When I challenged this, the salesman stated that the original quote was just an estimate and that the difference was insignificant--why are ALL the insignificant differences ALWAYS in favor of the dealership? (Rhetorical--AHA!)
So is this a common strategy, i.e., offer a quote with the bank fee in the drive-off then moving it to the cap. cost as the close of the deal nears?
Are there more benefits to the dealership that I'm not getting (PUN INTENDED)?
Thanks again.
regards,
kyfdx
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!
Edmunds Moderator
You can always try to negotiate a lower cap cost.. If that $260 bothers you, tell them that is what is stopping you from making the deal. Since you are making a big cap cost reduction, any money you save goes straight into your pocket. A fair deal all around, I think.
regards,
kyfdx
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!
Edmunds Moderator