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Ford Ranger vs Toyota Tacoma
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Truck Market.2,154,233 -1.98% 2,197,762
FullSize........1,629,681 0.24% 1,625,783
Compact........524,552 -8.29% 571,979
So, at least compared to all true trucks, the Compacts are generally not selling as well, BUT I didn't factor in the Avalanche, as it's too new.
The same point applies to the Ranger vs. Tacoma debate. Like the Rubicon, the Tacoma TRD isn't a best-seller because it costs more - but it comes better equipped and has the better reputation.
I personally don't care if the Tacoma places 5th in sales or 1st.
however, sales numbers do obviously tell what the public wants in a vehicle. and for like 15 years in a row, that has been ranger. there is no argument about that.
It think the Tacoma is a great truck, but not as many people are buying it for it's off-road abilities that has become the golden goose egg some make it to be.
Tacoma Sales
..........2002YTD | 2001YTD | Pct Change
4x2......71,080 . . . 70,946 . . . 0.6
4x2......46,863 . . . 50,982 . . . -7.7
Total...117,943 . . . 121,928 . . . -2.8
Maybe everybody is turning towards TRD Pre-runners?
http://pressroom.toyota.com/photo_library/display_release.html?id=20021001b
And you think Ford doesn't manufacture tons more Rangers than Toyota does Tacomas. Someone find a statistic on the percentage of tacomas that are sold at their original value that Toyota wanted to make off of them vs. the same percentage of Rangers. It may just be me, but this time of year I hear WAY more ads from Ford stealerships about clearing off their lots and distributorships than that of Toyota's.
Otherwise, point taken.
But I would like everyone to remember a time when you said the main reason why you dislike TRDs is that they are a "dime a dozen." Seems to me that Rangers are a dime a dozen, too, much more so than any other compact truck.
there was once a time when seeing ZR2 S10's, TRD tacomas, and off-road pkg. equipped rangers were somewhat of a rare occurence. now, all these trucks are all you see when you see a respective model. ZR2's especially. i had a reg. cab '97, and it was very rare. heck, they don't even make reg. cab ZR2's anymore, but back then a ZR2 was truly a hard truck to find (especially light metallic blue like i had). now, they're dime a dozen, just like the TRD tacomas and FX4 rangers (just a fancy new name for the past off-road pkg. rangers). but the cool thing is that the FX4 Level II is the most hard to find off-road pkg. truck now. you won't see many of them. now does that make them better? no, not in some minds. but i guarantee there aren't as many built as TRD's and ZR2's. and for me, that makes it cool. had they made a crew cab in it, i'd have one in my garage.
Do you know how many styles of Alcoa wheels are offered with the FX4 rangers? I remember at first, they were those with about, what, 6 or 8 holes in them - good looking rims. The FX4 at school has some other rims (the look like some sold at Wal-mart), but they still had an "A" in the center. Are these aftermarket wheels?
I was in a bad accident and my Tacoma died. I got hit in the rear and the truck rolled and slid on the roof. I injured my hand pretty badly as well as lots of scrapes, however, the Tacoma kept me in my seat and the roof didn't collapse which is why I'm still around. The Tacoma was a good truck but it was light and had a high CG. A much heavier vehicle hit me and pushed the truck sideways. It didn't do well going sideways so it rolled. Anyway, I liked the Tacoma a lot but I'm going bigger next time and getting a Tundra. I'm just thankful to be alive. By the way tbunder, the Avalanche is one ugly and cheap looking truck in my opinion. I didn't even consider buying one. I just looked at the Ford and the Tundra and the Tundra was a better deal.
nice to hear you are still in one piece. but if i were you, i'd buy a super-duty or an F150 super-crew. no other truck is as tough or safe as a S-D. the tundra is just a tacoma with a bigger body. don't get reeled in. i guarantee a super-cab SD with a 5.4 can be had cheaper than any tundra access cab with a V8 and four-wheel-drive. i'd shop around if i were you. as i said, the tundra is just a glorified tacoma. to each his own.
What vehicle hit you?
If safety's what your after, well, I'd rule out the F-150 for sure. The IIHS rated it by far the worst in its class. Of course, the NHTSA gave it good ratings but I believe the IIHS' ratings are more credible, as they're an independent entity, versus the federally-run NHTSA. Besides, the F-150 is just a glorified Ranger, hehe.
The Ford SDs are good trucks, but a 5.4 isn't enough motor for them, IMHO. Can't comment of tbundy's claims of the SDs prices and safety - just keep in mind what his "facts" are worth. Of course, you've been around here long enough to be well aware.
Wow, you mean a Superduty v-10 4x4 is cheaper than a Tundra??!!
"and a 5.4 in a SD is plenty if one's not going to tow a 10000 lb. boat or haul 3000 lbs"
Bull. Even the 5.4 Expedition and its engine are known for being extremely underpowered compared to the competition. Read page 54 in Car & Driver's August 2002 issue:
"Like so many Americans, it's overweight and underpowered...it's way more than the engine can handle...Ford's 5.4 liter lays claim to the lowest specific output, the lowest rev limit, and the least refinement in this test. This runs contrary to what one would expect from a large overhead-cam V-8..."
Ford's 4.6 and 5.4 are weak enough that when these engines are offered in their upscale Navigator and Aviators, they employ different heads that use - GULP - 4 valve DOHCs (which you believe are worthless) to boost horsepower and torque.
What I'm saying is the 5.4 is a weak engine (at least in its SOHC form), and the massive superduty is too much truck for it. Don't get me wrong, the superduties are great and I've said that before, but it deserves the diesel. Putting that 5.4 in it is like putting a 302 in a freightliner.
and yes, i would say a V10 4x4 SD could be bought cheaper than any TRD tundra 4x4 loaded up. that's a no brainer. they're like over $32G's, whereas any ford truck can be bought cheap. they advertise these supercab SD 4x4's in des moines at charles gabus ford for $23999 every sunday. a 6-spd manual is also standard. they won't pull a house down with the 5.4, but with that much torque at such low rpms, it isn't a bad rig.
it makes more horsepower yes, big deal. but we're talking big 4x4's here. the dohc heads only makes for 5 lb/ft more torque. woohoo. and READ clearly-it comes at the expense of the engine spinning 250 more rpms to make that 5 more lb/ft of torque (2750 rpms). so that just shows you right there. ford knows that low end torque is important, this is why they still use the SOHC you say sucks.
research my man. research.
most generally with any dohc design, it's going to spin higher to get the torque. not all the time, but most of the time. the navigator 5.4 is a perfect example. it takes 250 more rpms to get only 5 more lb/ft of torque that you say is the result of having dohc. if this is the advantage, i think ill take the sohc design. a lot cheaper to maintain or repair.
And the Ford Lightning isn't even naturally aspirated. We know what is possible when you add s/c and stuff like that. I wish Ford would invest more in developing better engines for their special vehicles. Like the new Roush mustang -- just put a blower on it and be done. Come on, that is kinda cheap, an awesome car, but cheap. And then they claim it to be a Vette killer. Ok, then let em add a s/c to the vette. Don't get me wrong, it will flat out run and I love em, the Lightning too, but alot of folks really disagree with the way ford is going about SVO right now, including me.
Well, in THIS case, you seem to think an extra 5 lb-ft of torque is worthless, especially when you have to go 250 rpms higher to get it.
But earlier, the fact your Liberty had to go a WHOPPING 800 RPMS HIGHER TO GET JUST 15 MORE LB-FT THAN THE TOYOTA'S 3.4 didn't bother you at all.
800 rpms higher to get just 15 more lb-ft of torque? In a vehicle that weighs 600lbs more?
You said it best - "woohoo."
And so goes another entry into my fat "The Grand Inconsistincies of the Wishy-Washy Tbundy" notebook...
Take care and I'll see you on the hunt for the big old gray buck...........Steelman.
just look at the v8 in the tundra. you have to wind it up to get max torque. again, it's a dohc design, or 4-valver.
The current Lightning, Cobra, Contour(?), and Focus special editions are all by SVT. Sure some people might not like how they are coming out, but I would bet they are not in the majority.
"just look at the v8 in the tundra. you have to wind it up to get max torque. again, it's a dohc design, or 4-valver."
>>Really?
Tundra 4.7:
245 hp @ 4800 rpm
315 lb-ft @ 3400 rpm
F-150 4.6:
231hp @ 4750 rpm
293ft-lbs. @ 3500 rpm
No, you need to wind up the F-150 100rpms higher to get 23 lb-ft of torque less. You're confused.
"i dont know crap..."
Have to agree there...
>>Even more humiliating would be a comparison with Ford's 4.0!
"Tundra V6 models have a 3.4 litre DOHC 24 valve V6 engine which develops 190 horsepower @ 4800 rpm and 220 lb-ft of torque at 3600 rpm. The real muscle and the real market however, lies with the optional 4.7 litre DOHC 32 valve V8 engine which offers 245 horsepower at 4800 rpm and 315 lb-ft of torque at 3400 rpm. This is the only twin overhead cam engine in this class."
"Toyota's V8 compares well with its competitor's standard V8 powerplants. Toyota's 4.7 litre V8 has more horsepower and torque than Ford's standard 4.6 litre V8 and Dodge's 5.2 litre V8 engine, but less horsepower than General Motors new 4.8 litre V8 - although, it has more torque."
"The Tundra's towing capacity ranges from 2336 kg (5150 lb.) to 3265 kg (7200 lb.). This is comparable with the F-150's maximum trailer weight of 7200 lb. with the 4.6 litre V8, and the Ram's maximum towing capacity of 7400 lb. with the 5.2 litre V8. (Towing capacity for the Silverado was not available.)"
"The Tundra's payload capacity ranges from 633 kg (1396 lb.) to 863 kg (1902 lb.), again comparable with its half ton competitors with base V8 engines."
Research, my man. Research.
Bore Vs Stroke. The relationship between these two dimensions certainly would
effect where a motors sweet spot is.
However, I still like plutos idea: if you want me to compare the Jag engine to Yotas 4.0L, then I want you to compare it to Fords 4.0L. Hehe, its only fair.
Also, here is another example of FMC, just slamming a blower on it to make more power. I respect it and as a power junky its cool, but accept a challenge and build a real engine. As a hotrodder, stang, you should be able to appreciate what I am saying.
i proved you wrong in your thesis that the 5.4 in the ford f150's and expeditions was weak so ford uses DOHC heads for their lincolns. i pointed out that you only gain 5 horse at a higher rpm. you said that ford puts these heads on lincolns to raise horsepower and torque. well, look where your theory took us on the higher torque? a whopping 5 more lb/ft and at a higher rpm. and what do you do? you don't even acknowledge that and change the subject to my jeep again. pretty sad if you ask me. face the facts, toyota will never match ford in the engine departments. you can't even accept the fact my jeep's 3.7L has more power and torque than your tacoma, let alone the ranger's awesome smooth as silk 4.0 stomping it. get over it my man!
and ill ask again, WHAT are you saying... that a fully optioned out Tundra can only match up with a standard 4.6 F150? that's pretty sad. nice thing with the ford is that there is an engine, the 5.4 to be exact, the one you slammed yesterday looming in the option box- that will anhilate any engine offered by any toyota truck.
sad- let's compare the ford 4.0 to the new toyota 4.0. wait, the new toyota 4.0 isn't even available yet am i not correct? so seems to me that there is no comparison.
also, if you want naturally aspirated ford engines, like i said, go drive a Mark VIII or pre-'03 mustang cobra. and then tell me your DOHC toyota engines are powerful. LMAO
I don't think Sad is saying it is a bad thing to put a supercharger to add power, but when you are building a street rod like the mustang, and lightning you would think there would more to it than just add a supercharger.
"let's compare the ford 4.0 to the new toyota 4.0. wait, the new toyota 4.0 isn't even available yet am i not correct? so seems to me that there is no comparison."
But the new 4.0 is out. I saw it last night at the Toyota dealer in the 4runner.
I hope it'll be placed in a Taco, but that does not mean that Tacoma will be bigger, wider and in the midsize truck class. New 4Runner is based not on Tacoma, but on Toyota Prago, which is good news for Taco owners because that no longer means Tacoma and 4Runner will go hand-in-hand. So.....next year we'll see what engine Toyota puts in the Taco. Hopefully it'll be a 4.0L, but if it isn't, it'll be something decent anyway, that'll last another 8 years (while competition catches up).
I wish I had time to read all these posts, but alas, they all talk about the same thing over, and over, and over again....
But yes, it amuses me to read all this jibberish on my lunch break, so please continue!!
That statement definitely applies to this board.
Next, I am not slamming blowers. kb hit it right on the head. I know I have bragged on em for Tacomas. But there is a difference. Ford uses them as std equipment so that they can have some bragging rights - which they get hands down, except with the new Stangs. But with the resources that Ford has, as a car fan, I WOULD LIKE to see them try harder to make a real ENGINE and not just put a blower on an already strong one. Again I have buttloads of respect for these blown behemoths of Ford's, its just that they could be so much more.
And who cares if the 4.0L is in the taco yet, none of Ford's engines discussed in the last 30 posts are in a Ranger either.
Lariat---> What do you drive, bud?
also, you need to go drive a Lincoln Mark VIII with the 32 valve all aluminum 4.6, and then tell me ford doesn't build an ENGINE. this engine is the cobra engine w/o the s/c. it is faster than h4ll and sounds meaner than a 302 flowmastered mustang when revved.
I don't think anyone can say Ford doesn't make real engines, when a majority on the road are from the ford fleet. Maybe not every engine is the pinnacle of technology, but every engine does fill a niche.
Its just that domestic car makers like Ford and GM have a lot of the muscle influence that Toyota has never been apart of, so I look to them to make some neat powerhouses. I guess it comes down to what you said, though, stang, about the emissions and fuel economy that is becoming the real issue. Gone are the days of real muscle.