Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!
Options
Forester Turbo in 1 year
This discussion has been closed.
Popular New Cars
Popular Used Sedans
Popular Used SUVs
Popular Used Pickup Trucks
Popular Used Hatchbacks
Popular Used Minivans
Popular Used Coupes
Popular Used Wagons
Comments
I think a 5 speed XT will give a WRX wagon a good run for the money. The XT has better low end and is easier to drive fast, effortless. The WRX requires a good launch and keeping the revs up.
The XT is quicker 0-3500 rpm, but that's where you spend 90% of your time. The WRX is quicker at high rpm. So let your driving style determine what to buy.
I need the space, and I like that the XT is just a stab of the throttle away from passing anyone very, very quickly.
-juice
John
Funniest post I've seen in ages. Thanks for the comic relief.
-jack
The sales guy called me yesterday and informed me that he will try and locate a silver one with Premium Package (in accordance with my wish list) at other dealerships around the Bay Area on Monday.
Apparently it is common practice that dealers swap inventory among each other; it's all good, but it means that some peon may be driving the car 50 miles or so to deliver it to its destination. The good news is that I may get my hands on an XT sooner than I thought, but on the other hand, I can only imagine the possible abuse that this practice invites...
John
corkfish: Is the XT more fun than the WRX wagon? Well, it depends on what you define as fun. Stock-for-stock the XT will have more body roll than a WRX. However, the WRX 2.0T needs the revs to be kept above 3K to make use of the turbo. In a gross oversimplification, if you like to drive hard, the WRX is probably going to be more rewarding. The XT is a better fit for those who want more creature comfort and a balance between sport and practicality.
pleiad7: I noticed you're up in Sonoma. When I went to Carlsen Subaru last week, the dealer showed me their shipment schedule and it looked like they were getting 5-speeds later this month. Stevens Creek has no 5-speeds at this point. My advice to you is to have the dealer secure you one in his future allocation if you can bear to wait 2 months. By going this route, you can configure the XT with the options you want and you can be assured it hasn't been driven by others. Typically this involves leaving a refundable deposit with the dealer. Carlsen and Santa Cruz Subaru does this. I believe Marin Subaru (probably closer to you) would do the same.
Ken
Ken - thanks for your input, I will see what my dealer comes up with on Monday and if it's worth taking the risk. My problem is that I'm really bad at delaying gratification, plus, if I wait another month or two, my Outback Sport will come due for registration renewal and 30,000 mile service...
Next up was the 5-spd. The first thing I noticed was how stiff the clutch is. I think that might get old in traffic, but I'm sure my leg would get stronger after using it for a while. I've driven a number of 5-spd's lately, and this was the stiffest next to a Mazdaspeed Protege.
The acceleration was great! Immediate power as soon as the clutch is out. Almost no turbo lag. No problem passing anything.
Handling is just ok. The tires squeal quickly when you try and pitch it into a hard right turn into a side street. When going in a straight line and quickly moving the wheel left to right the XT feels really loose compared to a Camry. I think most of the sway is due to the tires and not the suspension. I guess I really need a WRX wagon with the 2.5 turbo. Subaru are you listening?
I noted the tires could be better, also. Steering is quick, but there is more play than lower profile tires offer. 17"s would solve that, maybe fatter sway bars too.
-juice
rphillips2 - "Handling is just ok. The tires squeal quickly when you try and pitch it into a hard right turn into a side street. When going in a straight line and quickly moving the wheel left to right the XT feels really loose compared to a Camry. I think most of the sway is due to the tires and not the suspension." -
I'm willing to bet the tires are over inflated. The one I test drove (as was mine when I picked it up) was as described. Make sure the front tires are 29 lbs and the rear 30-32 and then see if there is any difference in the ride. MINE had a big difference. OH, the folks at the dealership said they think there may be some interchangeability in the XT 2.5 and STi so far as parts (STi to XT) and do I hear the words HMMMM I wonder if this will work. As these guys play with their toys I let you know if anything interesting comes of it. ME - I'm only looking at small things to change and the big one to me is the K&N air filter. It made a difference in the 2002 VDC H6 and I really think it will more so in the XT......... Oh, BTW the parts manager says the 2.5 XT takes a different oil filter and he's ordered a case of them, I'm going to check again when he gets them, maybe Friday or for sure Monday. I'm afraid to use Fram & Purolator till I'm sure I'm getting the correct one............More later... I like the Automatic its seems to be one of the ones that "learns" your driving style and it seems to improve as the breakin miles go up.........
If they wouldn't let me take delivery of it directly from the other dealer's location, I wouldn't buy under those circumstances. I required my dealer to sign in writing that no one would drive mine except as absolutely necessary to ready it for delivery to me, and then only gently.
- jack
I hoped mine might arrive this week, but no such luck. Meanwhile, I received a phone call from one of our other 6 Sube dealers last Monday saying he received a silver 5-speed, do I want to buy it? Unfortunately, that's the dealer that refused to go below MSRP, and I'm not interested at that price. I guess it's worth waiting one more week to save the $2,426 difference, but the wait is killing me!
"have the dealer secure you one in his future allocation if you can bear to wait 2 months. By going this route, you can configure the XT with the options you want and you can be assured it hasn't been driven by others."
Exactly what I did, and I like getting exactly what I want and nothing else, but it definitely seems to add to the delivery time.
- jb
Within reason, I'm glad to hear this. If they beefed up the pressure plate, the clutch will last longer.
- jb
Bob
Ken
Ken
That's very encouraging. We love the updates, please keep it up.
My XT clutch also felt smooth and light, or at least no different than on my '98 Forester.
-juice
That seems to make sense to me. I would think that the ECU adjustments for the automatic would be more noticeable than those for the manual. Or am I incorrect in this assumption?
-Bob
edit: Okay, I checked and here's what ACA has to say:
"As part of the support that Subaru gives to the Association, ACA members are eligible for the Subaru VIP Partners Program. Save up to $3,000* off the manufacturers retail price – depending on model and equipment selected - on the purchase or lease of any new Subaru from participating dealers without haggling. Now that’s a member benefit! Plus, Subaru will make a special donation to the ACA Conservation Program for each new vehicle purchased by an ACA member.
"To qualify, you must be an ACA member in good standing for at least six months prior to purchase. Please contact the ACA National Office BEFORE visiting your local Subaru dealer. We will verify your current status with Subaru who will then mail you the appropriate authorization form. Click here to register, or call the ACA at 703-451-0141 if you have questions.
"(* From MSRP to dealer invoice. Limited time offer – subject to change without notice. Terms and conditions apply.)"
I don't see anything in here about having to purchase from dealer stock.
Ed
Ed
Going to swing on by the dealer this weekend and see if I can get a test drive in. Still, a test drive for 10 minutes isn't going to be enough.
Keept those reviews coming!
-B
John
Ken
John: Maybe those EPA testers just loved having the XT boost kick in and drove the MPG numbers down!
Ken
Any how, it completely blocks the view of the temp and fuel gauges. They really need to find a better place to put it.
This is a minor complaint, mind you, especially since it's just an option. But I like turbo boost gauges and I would pass on this one.
-juice
-Bob
The MPG debate (so far) has centered around the XT's mediocre EPA ratings (mainly because hardly anyone has compiled enough real-world numbers to evaluate yet). Your point would certainly be valid for an XT being driven hard, meaning that the XT's potent acceleration capability is actually being used. However, I don't believe the standardized EPA testing (which is tightly programmed and controlled to uniformly model typical everyday driving) would ever call on an XT to come anywhere near strong acceleration, either in the city cycle or the highway cycle. If the XT completes the EPA tests without ever needing to produce enough power to get into the boost range, then we still are left with the mystery: Why did the XT, with all of its important new technology that ought to enhance fuel efficiency (variable valve timing, electronic throttle control) do so poorly on the EPA testing?
- jack
Thanks very much for this useful information. It confirms what I've been saying: In moderate driving, the XT will rarely if ever get into the high-fuel-flow boost phase. That almost surely would also have been true during EPA testing. Therefore, the true reason for the XT's disappointing EPA ratings (much lower than a WRX, and even lower than the 300BHP STi!) remain a mystery.
- jack
On a dyno? I can see overdoing it on the road, experiencing the actual acceleration sensation, but it seems that something would be lost sitting on a stationary dyno...
Also - are vehicles undergoing EPA testing actually operated by humans, or is a computer operating the throttle? I would have assumed the latter, in order to make the results more standardized and comparable.
- jack
I suppose. But I've now been telephoned by TWO dealers in my area who have 5-speed XTs sitting there, waiting to be bought. First, last Monday, a silver one; today a red one arrived. My dealer is supposed to be the highest-volume Subaru dealer in the Pacific Northwest; I can't figure out why he will evidently be the last one to get a silver 5-speed!- jb
This makes me very unhappy. Every picture of the gauge I've seen was on WRXs, and it was always installed on the right side of the column. In that position, all it might block would be the low end of the tach and perhaps the unused redline area' the important top half of the tach would be unobstructed. But after seeing photos of the gauge installed on XTs (on the left side instead of the right), I asked about obstruction and was assured by a Subaru dealer rep in another forum (who actually had received an XT with the boost gauge), that it didn't block the fuel or temp gauges at all. I didn't see how that would be possible, but took her at her word. I certainly hope it's possible without too much difficulty to reposition the gauge on the right side.
"This is a minor complaint, mind you, especially since it's just an option. But I like turbo boost gauges and I would pass on this one."
If the gauge can't be relocated to the right side and really does block the lower part of the fuel gauge (approaching empty), I'd put that a bit higher than a minor issue. Grrrrr.
forestergump says "Since the turbo boost gauge is mounted on the steering column, doesn't any obstruction it causes depend on how you have the wheel positioned? Or is the gauge positioned on the stationary portion of the steering column?"
The gauge installs forward of the steering wheel, on the fixed part of the column.
- jb
Satch
John
HOST...the new name , my suggestion:
Forester XT: smoke 'em if you got 'em!
Mark
Jack: A lot of WRX owners have installed Defi gauges instead of the stock one. The stock gauge uses MPa units where as the Defi displays psi.
Ken
I'd like to tell you it's a lot better, but...
The 2nd generation Foresters ('03-on) are claimed to have approximately an inch more backseat kneeroom. It's still very tight back there if, as you say, you need the front seat all the way back. You can improve the rear situation a bit by adjusting the driver's seat higher vertically (because that raises the angled seatback straight up); at the maximum height setting, things in back aren't quite so tight. This works OK if you don't have the sunroof; otherwise, headroom becomes an issue.
The Forester would be considerably improved (in my opinion) if the wheelbase (but not the overall length) was lengthened by about 2", with the entire increase plugged into the rear doors and backseat kneeroom. This would (by moving the backseat rearward) sacrifice about 1 cu.ft of rear cargo area with the seats up, but none with the seat folded.
- jack
- jack
18/23 is nothing to right home about, but let's put this into perspective. I think maybe our expectations were way too high. Let's compare.
The Vue V6/auto gets 19/25, but with just 181hp and 195 lb-ft, and it feels slower than the non-turbo Forester. Plus it's AWD is part-time.
The new 3.5l V6 Santa Fe is much worse than the XT, I forget exactly but it's closer to 15/20 or so, and I bet the XT will still outrun it.
OK, the STi is better, but it's more aerodynamic, and the wimps at the EPA are light foots that probably never pass 3500 rpm, so the boost hardly ever comes into play. In fact the light pressure turbo's tuning would mean the XT would be using more of its power on the EPA dyno than the STi would.
Real world, do you really think an STi will get better mileage? Anyone wanna bet?
-juice
I sat in the driver's seat and noted that the boost gauge does block the lower third of the fuel and temp gauges. However, the steering column has tilt adjustment, and the gauge moves up and down with the wheel. I didn't have time to fiddle, but I'm guessing that if the wheel is dropped as low as possible (a low wheel is my preference anyway) without interfering with legs and without blocking vision of the speedo and tach, then perhaps the boost gauge location will be OK. If not, I'll have to see whether it can be moved to the right of the column.
This dealer's policy is to allow charging up to $5,000 on plastic. My wife will avail herself of that to get airline miles on her Visa account. I don't know how much that's worth, but it's gotta recover some portion of the $100 over invoice that I'm paying for the XT.
I can't tell you how hard it was to walk away and leave the car sitting there in the rain for an entire weekend...
- jack
There is a photo of the 3-gauge performance gauge pack in the '03 Forester brochure, but so far I haven't found any reference to it on the option lists for the XT. In addition, the illustration of that pack has a pure vacuum gauge instead of a boost gauge (which is what you get with that pack on a WRX). I'm sure Subaru will get that sorted out - but the other consideration is that the performance gauge pack costs triple the price of the column-mount boost gauge, and the latter is all I needed.
- jb
That's great! I hope you can get some sleep this weekend.
I look forward to the report on Monday!
Ken
Oil Filter Please be advise that there is a new oil filter, part number 15208AA080, that applies to the 2004 MY Turbo Baja and MY Turbo Forester models. This new filter, 15208AA080, is smaller in size (68mm) than the current filter used on non-turbo models, part number 15208AA060 (80mm).
The current (larger) filter used on non-turbo models (15208AA060) should not be used on 2004 MY Turbo Baja or 2004 MY Turbo Forester.
The oil filter that should be used on 2004 MY Turbo Baja or 2004 MY Turbo Forester models is 15208AA080)."
As many times as they repeat this information I really think they mean it. My dealer ordered a case of them late last week. I was going to change oil and filter this weekend, but couldn't because I don't know the cross reference for the Fram or Purolator (checking both websites no help either).
Weird. I wonder if the significantly smaller size says anything about the filtration capacity. You'd think the XT would require more filtration, not less.
- jb
-juice
Steve - IMHO the 2005 Outback will probably have a turbo 3.0H and I think the price will probably be $2000-$4000 more than the Forester (now or later). It's your call and I agree the rear leg room can be tight in the Forester, even with adjusting the front seatbacks in an almost straight upright position. So far as room the Outback - it has been and will probably continue to be roomier rear seat and have more cargo space (wagon).
We have the 2002 Outback Sedan VDC and the 2004 XT Forester - the XT is hands down faster than the VDC and power curve is better (turbo w/235 lb foot is better than VDC w/217 lb foot) lower mid and upper range. The power curve is no let up from the get go to at least 95mph (I'm over the recommended 1,000 mile breakin). I'm not going to be a speed demon, but the passing power is great to have when you want (need) it.
I am still betting this XT is going to be found as quite a little sleeper in the next 3-4 months once enough people drive them and talk about them.
So far as now or later. I'd choose the XT now, but remember I have one and I really love it........
"EJ251" is the non-turbo (SOHC) engine and "EJ255" is the turbo (DOHC) engine.
Nearly everyone who guessed at the XT price prior to announcement guessed high, and maybe I'm falling into the same trap - but with Subaru's stated intent to move upmarket, I think any turbo 6-cyl Legacy with typical equipment will be MSR priced in the mid-$30K range (i.e. 7 or 8 thou more than a Forester XT). It might be possible to get the Legacy with a turbo 4 at or near $30, but I don't think you'll get the turbo 6 at that level. I'm not saying the Legacy turbo-4 and turbo-6 cars won't be worth these prices, just that I don't expect them to come in significantly under them.
- jack