Mazda3 Hatchback

creakid1 · July 2003

"what are you saying? 6sp? clutch-pedal-less? Are you talking about Formula1 or Mazda3? I'm confused..."

That AutoWeek link posted in #251 says the next Golf/Jetta got "Transmission choices will include a standard six-speed manual, optional six-speed automatic and Volkswagens double clutch sequential manual gearbox."

I'm a 13-yr-long sport-model Protege owner & have been tortured by this over-3000rpm-at-60mph close-ratio-5-sp all my life, it's time for a change. Where's the 6-sp? Mazda3 only got 4-sp for the auto. & that clutch-pedal-less VW double clutch sequential manual gearbox can shift instantly w/ perfect smoothness.

Do I have to move to another country to get a loaded 3 w/ HID & ESP?

The Volvo version should be well equipped, but the reliability...

bluong1 · July 2003

I'm a 13-yr-long sport-model Protege owner & have been tortured by this over-3000rpm-at-60mph close-ratio-5-sp all my life, it's time for a change. Where's the 6-sp?

I know exactly what you mean. It didn't bother me when I was in TX, but now I can drive pretty much 90-100 mph without too much risk being bothered by the cops (French one), and the engine revs pretty much high up there. It would be nice if Mazda offers a 6sp so that the last gear is longer for highway cruising and the ratios are even closer spaced.

I don't mind having a manual with clutch, especially on the car where the pedals are nicely set up for heel-and-toe like in the P5. That adds some fun.

Bruno

boggse · July 2003

"Transmission choices will include a standard six-speed manual, optional six-speed automatic and Volkswagens double clutch sequential manual gearbox."

More stuff to break. VW automatics aren't known for their robustness & reliability. That is the beauty of Mazda -- they don't sell you an automatic that [at 4000 miles] won't let you shift from park until you depress the brake and then release 15-20 times before you can shift, and then tell the dealer that the problem is in 11 different parts until they finally have to replace the whole transmission to fix it, only to have the problem come back 4000 miles later and have to put in another transmission at that time, like VW does.

If I wanted an F1 transmission, I would buy an Aston Martin. (any excuse to buy an Aston Martin is a good one)

baggs32 · July 2003

Juice,
We don't know the sex just yet. Hopefully we'll find out on Monday!

Piercings? We don't need no stinking piercings!

icvci,
Thanks for your comments. I think I actually like the exterior, and interior, of the 3 more than that of the P5. I showed a picture of the 3 HB to my wife last night and her first comment was that it looks good. After giving it a second glance she commented that it looks like the P5, and asked "does it come in a sedan?".

I give up!

The incentives are another thing. I can probably get a 6 in January for less than a 3. Especially if you consider how many 6's are sitting around due to Mazda's botched launch. I'll probably be able to buy a 2004 Focus ZX5 with the new 2.3L PZEV engine for much less as well.

All of these choices are really stressing me out right now. On the other hand, I'm glad that I do have them.

ateixeira · July 2003

the 3 interior in the P5 exterior

Well put. I fully agree. The P5 is very well styled, it's one of the very few cars my wife and I both agree is attractive.

SMG is new technology, do you want to be the first VW owner to try it out? Version 1.0? Not me.

I concur about the gearing, though. Try a Miata, it's even worse, at 70mph this thing is positively screaming.

Tim: you need a 6....wagon! You got that kid coming, man! Try fitting a stroller, port-a-crib, bathtub, diaper bag, jogger stroller, backpack carrier, snugli, play pen, baby luggage, and on by the way YOUR luggage in the trunk of any sedan. It ain't happenin' buddy! ;-)

-juice

tysalpha · July 2003

ateixeira:
> SMG is new technology, do you want to be the first VW owner to try it out? Version 1.0? Not me.

Is this VW's first use for SMG? I'm trying to think if Audi has it in any of their cars -- not sure. I would be more interested to see Audi's Multitronic CVT in the new Golf, but I guess VW cars don't get it...yet.

In any case, I imagine SMG will only be available with the top VR6 engine. Considering VW's prices, and the way all German carmakers nickel and dime you for every option, a SMG-equipped Golf will probably cost $30K.

> Try a Miata, it's even worse, at 70mph this thing is positively screaming.

Funny thing, even on 6-speed equipped Miatas, the engine still screams over 65mph, because the 6th gear isn't that much taller than 5th. Also -- why only 4 for the automatic? I thought I read Ford would be offering a 5-speed auto on the next Focus, but maybe I'm imagining that.

icvci · July 2003

juice, Tim/Baggs has an Escape for hauling the family.

It's not that I don't like the styling of the 3. It's that I prefer the look of the P5.

ateixeira · July 2003

If your other car is practical, then get a Miata. :-)

I believe this is the first SMG system from VW. Let's see, BMW and Toyota have them, plus some exotic cars do. That's about it.

My Miata is a 5 speed, a '93 with the 1.6l. To be honest it's happier below 65mph so the gearing may not be that big an issue. I just put the top down and take the back roads.

-juice

baggs32 · July 2003

Juice,
icvci is right, we do have an Escape to haul all of that other crap around. We need something to replace our Civic coupe. Something fun, economical (in price), and stylish. Something that I can strap a car seat into without having to twist myself into a pretzel.

The 6 wagon, along with all other wagons, are not approved by the wife. I'm having a hard enough time convincing her of the merits of a hatch! I'd love to have either one though.

"If your other car is practical, then get a Miata. :-)"

I was thinking more along the lines of a Mustang GT convertible, but a Miata would be good too. Know any good hypnotists?

icvci · July 2003

The only drawback to the kid thing in the P5 is car seat placement. My daughter has to sit on the passanger side as the middle won't work.

Other than that, it's a really nice set up. I've got a mirror that straps on the rear head rests so I can see her when I need/want to. Definately nice to have the head rests.

ateixeira · July 2003

Try a Camry Solara or Sebring drop top, those back seats are far more accomodating than the Mustang's. A P5 is fun and far more practical, or the 3.

I'm also looking for a hypnotist, one that will convince my wife to let me get that Forester XT. 0-50 is quicker than the Porsche Cayenne Turbo. 0-30 comes sooner than in a Ferrari Enzo, better traction off the line with AWD I guess.

Hang on kids, we're going to get milk NOW!

:-)

-juice

vjoe_udo · July 2003

Are you thinking about Mazda6 hatchback?
It looks like a sedan and has about the same storage as the P5.

ateixeira · July 2003

Probably more passenger space, and similar cargo, yeah. I think they look really cool, plus it looks like that the derivative that Mazda will tune as the sportiest. MazdaSpeed, anyone?

-juice

icvci · July 2003

In Japan the 6 is the Atenza. There is a sport model but, they don't get the V6. I think it's mainly suspension and some apperance mods.

Here's a link to the Atenza 23Z site.

http://special.atenza.mazda.co.jp/?ref=top

Some pretty neat stuff. They did a movie to promote the Atenza and it's on the site, just click enter after the page loads.

toneetouch · July 2003

I also thought about waiting for the 3 before deciding to purchase a P5. But after seeing the 3 pics I was worried that I might not like the looks of the 3 in person, and then have lost the opportunity to get a P5 with the discounted pricing in a configuration I liked. So, after much debate, I decided (actually, my wife and I decided) to pull the trigger on a P5.

I still think the 3 is going to be a great-looking, sporty, functional, reliable car, probably even better than a P5. But I already KNEW that the P5 was a great car. And I agree that it being all Mazda Japan was a great selling point.

baggs32 · July 2003

I have to wait to see the 6 hatch in person. I'm not so sure I'm going to like a car that size with a hatchback. The new Malibu hatch (XL?) looks horrible.

"Try a Camry Solara or Sebring drop top, those back seats are far more accomodating than the Mustang's."

I want to have fun driving my new car not die of boredom!

Besides, I'm trying to get away from a coupe. Hmm, maybe an RX-8? Now that would be perfect!

Now I can wake up from my little dream...

I've also been considering a 5-door Focus SVT but I'm a little afraid of the insurance premium as well as it's thirst for premium grade fuel. I'm sure the 3's will be much better on gas.

creakid1 · July 2003

"Is this VW's first use for SMG? I'm trying to think if Audi has it in any of their cars -- not sure. I would be more interested to see Audi's Multitronic CVT in the new Golf, but I guess VW cars don't get it...yet."

No, VW doesn't even got the F1-type SMG, but it's the 1st ever for anyone trying out a double-clutch SMG, which might not have any robot inside searching a gear for you. I think it has a pre-selected upper & a lower gear already connected to the present gear waiting for you to slip in w/ no time delay. So all other SMGs are hydraulic-robot-operated & are actually too clunky for a luxury car.

I don't know how convenient or smooth to shift it between a gear & neutral, since I do that a lot. Ditto the artificial 6-sp found in the CVT in Audi & Mini.

CVT is actually very boring as the rpm doesn't vary directly w/ the vehicle speed, eventhough Audi's isn't as "slippery" as Civic's, which C&D found to be even less direct than an auto. The advantage of the CVT is that mid-corner rpm/power can be added smoothly w/o disrupting the cornering line/safety.

Do VW manuals break down? Maybe the DC SMG is simple enough to be reliable.

regfootball · July 2003

"The new Malibu hatch (XL?) looks horrible"

well, its GM, what did you expect?

why would the focus svt have higher insurance rates? I've owned 2 SHO's and checked on Contour SVT before and the great thing about those cars is the iunsurance is about the same as a normal sedan.

creakid1 · July 2003

That's the stupid thing about turbos & some weak-torque revvy engines. They achieve higher maximum hp so a higher top speed can be achieved. That's why insurance companies have to charge them more. A governor might not help, as aftermarket chips can override the top-speed setting.

bluong1 · July 2003

dimensions (mm) from wrongpres:

Mazda3 Protege5
-----------------------------
Head room fr 994 998
Head room rr 951 976
Leg room fr 1065 1073
Leg room rr 922 900
Shoulder fr 1394 1370
Shoulder rr 1371 1356

The increase of the shoulder dimensions is no surprise: exterior, the new one is more than 2" wider. They both have the same turning circle of 10.4m. The 2.0l manual is 2kg lighter!

Bruno

dinu01 · July 2003

Exterior: wider, lower and a bit longer than the P5. They had to compensate for space lost in headroom, so they allongated the car. Wider and lower helps as far as handling go. I suspect they had to make it longer since the P5's trunk was not exactly large.

All in all I doubt many 6'ers (people that are 6' tall not Mazda6 owners, although they're welcome to try a 3 for size) will have trouble fitting in the M3 - now one with a sunroof might be another story.

Dinu

baggs32 · July 2003

"why would the focus svt have higher insurance rates? I've owned 2 SHO's and checked on Contour SVT before and the great thing about those cars is the insurance is about the same as a normal sedan."

Even my old ZX2 was more expensive to insure than the sedan's due to it's larger engine. It was actually classified as a sports car and therefore a higher premium was charged.

Some of that could have been attributed to the fact that it was a 2-door, but the engine was the biggest factor according to our agent. I have a feeling the SVT Focus will fall in the same category. Plus the SVT is more expensive, less available, and therefore more desirable. All things that can raise your insurance.

It's probably not a big hike in the premium, but it is something to consider. Besides, the 3 with the 2.3 should offer similar performance for a lower price.

dinu01 · July 2003

This is (I think) the production version of the M2 - notice the 2-tone fabric on the seats and the rear-end of the M2 - there's a lot of resemblance to the M3.

http://www.autorevue.cz/Automobilka/Ar.asp?ARI=2221&CAI=2130

Dinu

bluong1 · July 2003

The M3 is higher than the P5.

dinu01 · July 2003

According to the #s posted:

M3/P5

Head room fr 994 998
Head room rr 951 976

The M3 should be lower... I would like it lower. I do realize however that head room and the overall exterior dimensions of a car are not always corresponding.

Dinu

dinu01 · July 2003

They're not saying much new...

http://www.lequotidienauto.com/mag/030630/mazda3/default.asp

Dinu

dinu01 · July 2003

http://www.lequotidienauto.com/mag/030210/mazda2/default.asp

Dinu

bluong1 · July 2003

Mazda3: 1450mm, Protege5: 1420mm

dinu01 · July 2003

Guess I didn't see it

Dinu

mazdafun · July 2003

I will bemoan any loss of headroom, front or rear.

Hopefully, the seats will be adjustable in height.

creakid1 · July 2003

than those typical Japanese designs. I'm 5'11", & have been sick of seats near floor level & had to stretch my whole leg horizontally.

Last year, I collected 2 used cars w/ sport seats - a '93 Camry SE & a '84 Jetta(I) Wolfsburg coupe. That big Japanese "family car" got the shortest thigh support you can find. While the pint-size Jetta has extremely long thigh length & support. Both cars got huge tall rear seats & good thigh support, w/ much more leg room in this 103in-wheelbase Camry sedan.

So Mazda3's 103.9in WB should be able to provide lots of leg room, too, especially if the chairs are also high. Other Long WB cars like the Civic & TSX don't got much leg room.

W/ so much room in the 3, who will take the 6i? Just keep the 3 ugly on purpose.

Why do I still need the Mazda3? That superb-back-seat Camry SE still got poor steering & ride comfort, especially over deeper bumps. & the noisy & unreliable old Jetta...

fowler3 · July 2003

are going to be different on the USA models: two red lamps each side, one on the fender and one on the hatch lid. As shown there would be no warning lamp if the hatch door is up and parked on the roadside.

I hope they have the MX Sportif badge also.

fowler3

boggse · July 2003

Quotes from Bob Hall, father of the Miata, speaking of the Axela:

"Actually, Axela (not 'Alexa') is the name for the whole range in Japan; five-door hatch, four-door sedan and maybe, just maybe, even a two-door convertible in a while."

"It won't be in the car at launch in Japan or the US, but a six-speed automatic is being developed for the upcoming J48L model."

boggse · July 2003

"The Mazda 3/Axela will not use the E4WD system licenesed to Mazda by Nissan for the Demio (though Honda's going to use somehing similar in the next-generation Legend (or whatever moronic two-letter "name" it'll go by in the US) in some markets. The Demio's getting it becaues there was no accommodation for a mechanical 4WD system made in the Demio's development and the Nissan electric-drive system is easily adapted to the Mazda. Quicker to get into production (not to mention cheaper) than if a conventional mechanical 4WED system for the Demio was developed.

But I wouldn't write the idea of an all-wheel-drive Mazda 3 off. Bearing in mind the 3 is based on Mazda 6/Atenza architecture, any driveline used in a Japanese Spec Mazda Atenza will fit under the Alexa/Mazda 3, MPS Atenza excluded.

So who knows, a 2.3 litre, 4WD Mazda 3 may just happen."

creakid1 · July 2003

But it's twin Volvo/Ford will get mechanical AWD.

bluong1 · July 2003

What is "4WED" (four WEDnesday or typo E4WD?)

and "J48L"?

ateixeira · July 2003

I don't like the sound of that, when they say 4WD instead of AWD it's not truly full time. I'd like to see a center differential, power to the rear axle all the time (50% or more). If it remains primarily FWD you still have torque steer.

-juice

icvci · July 2003

juice, IMO the small car market, and specifically the segment that the 3/Axela resides, fuel economy is a major player. When you get in to full time AWD, you lose fuel economy, an area where Mazda already gets smoked by Honda. Plus, price will go up.

If Mazda wants to build a segment leader, they'll make it AWD. If they want to gain sales and build a competitive vehicle, they'll make it FWD. With a Mazdaspeed derivative, they fill the high performance niche.

I think they want sales and I wouldn't count on an AWD version.

ateixeira · July 2003

While I agree, the AWD model would be the highest performance derivative, and those customers are less concerned about mileage, and more about balanced power delivery.

So maybe save it for the MazdaSpeed 3.

Remember the 323 GTX? Though it didn't sell all that well...

-juice

fowler3 · July 2003

there was an article on an EU Mazda site about the Mazda6 station wagon with the 2.3L engine and AWD. It stated that the 6 wagon's power went down the tube with AWD. Remember, the EU models do not get the V6, which can handle AWD. Isn't AWD similar to the Jaguar?

fowler3

creakid1 · July 2003

The 6 isn't a Mondeo or related what so ever.

ateixeira · July 2003

That's a bigger platform IIRC, Mondeo vs. (next) Focus.

Any how, I don't think the AWD takes anything away from the X Type, in fact it's pretty much the only thing distinctive about it.

-juice

maltb · July 2003

I'm 99% certain that HIDs will be on the Mazda3. Which grade of Mazda3 I'm not sure.

ateixeira · July 2003

HIDs are unnecessary.

First off, CR tested several lights and found the ones on the plain Jane Corolla were far superior to the HIDs on the Audi TT. So just design good headlights to begin with and save the customer a grand or two.

Second, they get stolen all the time. Ask Maxima owners how many times (not "if") they've had them stolen.

-juice

dinu01 · July 2003

I completely agree w/Juice.

- They are expensive to buy and replace if necessary.
- They do not necessarily give you a better view of the road at night, but ALWAYS blind other drivers - how's that for "safety"?

Bottom line: Just another gimmick that doesn't do anything good for you. If you want stadium-type lighting, buy a set of PIAA fog lights and install them - had them on a car a few years ago and you could drive at night just with those on - they were that powerful. Oh yeah, they only cost $80+installation.

ateixeira · July 2003

Very expensive.

And yes, the sharp cutoff does blind other drivers. BMW blue ones in particular tend to bother me.

-juice

iamz · July 2003

I drive over 24K a year always against the main flow of traffic on mainly rural roads with traffic so heavy I can almost never pass if I get behind someone slow. Much of this driving is during the winter which has me driving in the dark both ways for a number of months out of the year. Point being that many of the cars coming at me have HIDs and I have NEVER had any of them blind or annoy me.

icvci · July 2003

I believe (actually, I know) the highest rated headlights by CR, of all vehicles tested, were those on the P5.

That includes HID equipped vehicles.

ateixeira · July 2003

There you go, better lighting than HIDs, cheaper, cheaper to replace, easier to replace, less likely to be stolen, etc.

Is there any disadvantage? No. Better in every single way, period.

iamz: your eyes are simply less sensitive. I don't doubt you for a minute, but HIDs absolutely *DO* blind some drivers, myself included.

-juice

icvci · July 2003

Nothing like an upgrade that doesn't upgrade.

From what I know, HID will be an option on all trim levels

Mazda3 Hatchback

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